Young(er) Bowler Seeking Advice

[DR3AMxCATCHER]

Hey all! Thanks for checking out my first post on the forums. I'm 21 years old and will have been bowling for 2 years come this December. I started at a 135 average and am now peaking at 193 in league and 173 in the other league.
I shot my first 700 series and also my highest game of 266 this weekend in a tournament here in Houston, however I've been watching a video of me from this past December, 2011..compared to a video shot on July 7th. I had a few people talk to me about how long I take while at during my whole ritual of preparing for my shot, basically telling me that I'm taking to long and it is most likely tightening up my arm swing. I range from 530-598 series depending on which league I'm at.

Anyways, any feed back would be nice! I really want to make something out of this sport and I feel like I can through learning. I've never had a coaching lesson, however, I do have a Hall of Fame coach where I bowl but getting a lesson takes months. I've been cancelled on once and everything I do now is mainly self-taught and learned through observing.

Here is a video from both places, however, one was shot during a practice and one was shot before the tournament began this past weekend.
In the second video, I'm aware of the auto-focus problem. I'm trying to get a video of a close of me on the lanes during a whole game to look at.

Some of the things I've noticed that are changed are I'm more down towards the ground and also don't turn my foot, I've worked to keep my foot straight on my throws. I'm using a Tropical Heat (14 pounds) in the two videos. I do own a Defiant (14, had a 15 dropped it too much) and a Taboo Spare (15). The Defiant and Tropical Heat are drilled differently, mainly because the Heat was my first ball ever. The Taboo Spare is usually for the corner pins on the right. I'm a full-roller as well, with a much better throw with the brace on.

Practice December 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqZMTyoHaIM

Practice before Tournament. July 7th, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3ChyiDHOBU

[martinezsam2495]

you post a video that's private?
That makes no sense we can't see it,
anyways welcome to the forum!

[billf]

In the video we can see, you didn't take too long.

[TheSheibs]

That's about how long I take. Seems about 6-8 seconds from time the next rack is up to the time u deliver the ball. About 8seconds overall. Could it be the people wh late telling you that you are taking too long are just F#%*ing with you?

[DR3AMxCATCHER]

That's about how long I take. Seems about 6-8 seconds from time the next rack is up to the time u deliver the ball. About 8seconds overall. Could it be the people wh late telling you that you are taking too long are just F#%*ing with you?

I don't believe so, mainly because I had a minor talk against a bowler who just comes into sub with about a 230 average. Our talk was about some pro bowlers that come to mind such as Tom Baker and Mike Durbin, saying that I do take my time sometimes too much like they did and it causes me to tighten up and not let the ball work.

I've made the video un-private now as well.

Also, anything from the video(s) that I should work on that looks a little off? Just trying to see if there's anything I could work on.

[TheSheibs]

I say screw them. If you aren't taking up to a minute then I wouldn't worry about. I bet during that time you are getting in your start spot, moving the ball to your bowling hand, looking at your mark, and getting your head in the right place to take the shot. Since that whole video was only 12 seconds, I wouldn't worry about. What could cause you to tighten up is standing around waiting a long time for your next turn. As for the ball not working, that depends on a lot of other things and not just how long you take to get set to take those first steps. 193 is a good average for an amateur. Not sure what you could do to increase your scores or average without seeing you bowl some more. It seems like just some practice and working on consistency would do the trick.

[Dogtown]

A few things I noticed you might consider working on:

First: You have a 4 step approach. On your first step you should be pushing out with the ball and letting it drop into your swing. Currently, you are into your 2nd step before this happens. This can cause you to be late with your timing (which can cause all kinds of things to go wrong).

Second: At the foul line you have a shallow knee bend. This causes you to stand up at the foul line and be off balance. Notice your back leg is way up in the air. You want the chest up, leg down. Post your shot.

Last: Follow through with your swing. Right now you are swinging inside to out. In other words your arm is circling clockwise (which is okay), but you are slightly short arming the ball.

Watch some YouTube videos of Diandra Asbaty, Stephanie Nation and/or Kelly Kulick. I know they're all women but fundamentally they are GREAT examples. Most of the guys on the PBA turn the ball a lot which requires opening the shoulders. You're not there, yet. I think most of the ones I mentioned have a 5 step approach so you should pay attention from the second step on.

Good Luck. Hope that helps.

[DR3AMxCATCHER]

A few things I noticed you might consider working on:

First: You have a 4 step approach. On your first step you should be pushing out with the ball and letting it drop into your swing. Currently, you are into your 2nd step before this happens. This can cause you to be late with your timing (which can cause all kinds of things to go wrong).

Second: At the foul line you have a shallow knee bend. This causes you to stand up at the foul line and be off balance. Notice your back leg is way up in the air. You want the chest up, leg down. Post your shot.

Last: Follow through with your swing. Right now you are swinging inside to out. In other words your arm is circling clockwise (which is okay), but you are slightly short arming the ball.

Watch some YouTube videos of Diandra Asbaty, Stephanie Nation and/or Kelly Kulick. I know they're all women but fundamentally they are GREAT examples. Most of the guys on the PBA turn the ball a lot which requires opening the shoulders. You're not there, yet. I think most of the ones I mentioned have a 5 step approach so you should pay attention from the second step on.

Good Luck. Hope that helps.

Awesome examples. My 3rd tournament I was ever in near Dallas I bowled on the lanes right next to Stefanie Nation, I wish I could of paid more attention to her when it was live! I'm going to do my homework a little bit on the others though.

After watching both my videos, I do see my hands doing the clockwise movement which I'm going to try and correct. I do turn my body down, I see that now too. I'm going to work on those for sure as soon as I can. Thanks for those tips. I always feel weird with my steps, I've been told to take larger steps but it feels too weird and I don't understand why I bend down on my steps either.

[J Anderson]

I always feel weird with my steps, I've been told to take larger steps but it feels too weird and I don't understand why I bend down on my steps either.

As bowlers we all get into habits, both good and bad ones, without realizing why. You probably got a lucky break one time when you bent down and your subconscious mind keeps telling your body to do it.
If I understand you correctly your steps feel a little weird now. Trying to take bigger steps feels a lot weird. The fact they feel weird now is a sign that you should change your steps. Unfortunately all change feels even weirder. You just have to work through it.

[billf]

One thing to notice on all the ladies mentioned above (and the men too), at the finish remember Tony Chin; that's toe, knee, chin all lined up in a straight line. We can't see how you are at the finish but given your balance leg and waist bend I would bet you're off line. The proper alignment allows for the most leverage.
Some articles you may want to check out and ask questions if need be, by USBC Gold coach Joe Slowinski www.bowlingknowlegde.info most of the articles are archived and available for saving as pdf files.

[Tampabaybob]

Just a few points.

You are fairly upright at the start appearing to be a little stiff. Loosen up with a little knee flex there.

Your steps all seem to be the same speed, try using a slow, slow, quick, quick, approach.

You're pushing the ball fairly far out in front of you and I would try to just have you drop the ball at the start. You'll use less muscle power in doing so and that's what you want. Just let gravity take the ball down and into the backswing. No muscle power until the point of release and then just enough to achieve the amount of rotation you want.

I agree with the comment on your knee bend at the line and your right leg being too high in the air. More knee bend at the line will help keep your hand under the ball longer, and will help you gain a little more rotation on the ball. Try to stay down at the line, knee bent, right foot closer, if not on the floor, until the ball rolls off of the pin deck. Maintain that balance all the way through and I think that will help your game.

Your left foot, is turned a little, and not too bad. Try a practice game focusing on your slide foot sliding left. It's a little tricky but you should be able to do it after a couple of trys. This will help maintain keeping your torso facing the pins. look at your video and you see you're actually facing two lanes way. that's due to left foot positioning. The more square you are the closer you'll be able to bring the ball in toward your body and slide foot, making your swing plane better.

Try these out and let us know how you're doing. Also have someone film 3 or 4 frames and also a shot from your right side going down the approach. Good Luck

Bob

[Tampabaybob]

By the way....here's one of the best videos to come along in years. It was produced by three of the best coaches in the country (my view) and I've been recommending it to all of the people I coach. I think you'll like it and get a lot out of it. Pay particular attention to Chris Barnes style. I think, by far, he has the best and most textbook type style among all of the pros.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N5nnDbV0znE

[DR3AMxCATCHER]

It's been a long time coming and I haven't forgotten this thread. I've been working on a lot of suggestions listed and hopefully this Tuesday I can finally get the camera stand and get some footage in. I do have a minor video that was taken this past Friday while I was in Euless, TX for a tournament.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hek2EG4I64

I personally feel a lot better in my form compared to where it was just a few months ago. Things that I've noticed through the months:


Slide foot does not always turn
Ball has been dropped to hip/waist area
Push out on the ball isn't nearly as far as it used to be
There is some knee flexing now
Ball rotation seems to be much better
Follow through is an actual follow through


Of course, I'm not exactly where I want to be (yet). In this video I'm throwing the same ball Tropical Heat as the lanes were drying up and needed a ball to go long. Suggestions are still welcomed!

[Tampabaybob]

Watch your video again, and notice how you are falling off to the right. A previous comment is correct in saying your feet are too fast and you're getting to the line too fast. You're feet should be slow, slow, quick, quick and you should be able to end up completely balanced on "just your left foot" as long as the ball is on the lane. The right leg/ foot is your balance leg and you should try to keep it on the floor behind you. I would also lower your ball at your stance (about waist level) and just let it drop into your swing. Using no muscle just let the ball swing back and forth and at the point of release, turn it with your wrist and fingers.

For only just starting out you're doing well, now comes the time to work on the little things. All bowlers reach plateaus in their game and in order to get to the next level, change is needed. If there is another coach in the area that you can book a lesson with and not have to wait months, book them instead of waiting. What area of the country are you in, there's probably someone here on the boards that may be able to guide you to someone.

Good luck and post another video and let us know how you're doing.

Bob

[DR3AMxCATCHER]

I got another video, sadly it's only one throw again.I'm hoping to be able to get quite a few throws in with a real camera this Sunday instead of my family holding my phone and taking a video. The lanes that I'm bowling are at my home lanes, ones that I bowl league in here in Houston, TX.

A few things to note in this video, I was working on pushing the ball out on the first step instead of a full-step and then pushing the ball out, it was helping as I felt like I wasn't putting much effort into the throw.

I'm also throwing a new ball the Defiant Edge and boy is this baby going to be something else when I learn how to fully throw it. This my 3rd ball and second strongest ball. I'm throwing on lanes that were not oiled yet, but I did get throw a few throws on fresh oil and had 5 nice strikes in a row then a dumb 7 pin standing! I'm going to compare the two videos from last Friday compared to today and see if there are some changes fixed.

I was told to drop the ball about 3 inches on spares on the left side this will slow things down for me and pick them up, which was helping and I never missed one. I do know on my strike ball, the ball is sitting just a little bit above waist high.

I appreciate all the kind words and help and I'm still working on everything. Tomorrow I have league and will be trying all the new information from my coach here and also from what has been stated here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOVvfmWxZB0

[GeoLes]

That's about how long I take. Seems about 6-8 seconds from time the next rack is up to the time u deliver the ball. About 8seconds overall. Could it be the people wh late telling you that you are taking too long are just F#%*ing with you?

I took part in a workshop late this summer and received the best advise. It has helped my game tremendously by removing stuff from my "pre-throw bucket list" It further helped me out by providing me with a more intense focus during my shot.

1. Do all your thinking behind the approach. (where will I stand, Through which mark will I throw the ball)
2. Establish a very short on the approach routine (wipe the ball, fingers in,set wrist position and stance)
3. Focus only on your mark on the floor (see only the mark as you push away) Push away to the mark and walk along side the "railroad track" with the ball
4. Only see your ball's path after it has pased he mark, (follow the path to the target).

It is a very quick and very intense feelilng of sucess.

[Tampabaybob]

Dr3am.... Your approach is looking good. Keep working on it and take the advice from GeoLes as it's very good advice. Work on your accuracy, and you'll get to where you want to be.
Keep practicing and let us know your progress.

Bob