Thumb hole, Loose or Tight?

[RoccoRock]

Ok, I've been working on my game, and I am in the middle of switching from a two finger/two handed style, to a conventional thumb in the ball style. My question is, what are the pros and cons of a loose thumb and a tight thumb? Right now the ball I am using the thumb is tight, and last night I noticed the ball sticking to my thumb a little bit. It caused inconsistancy, and after only 6 games my thumb was raw. I had a ball with a looser thumb a while back, and is seemed like it was harder to hold the ball on my backswing. I have a ball being drilled, that I am picking up tomorrow, and it had a Turbo Switch Grip sleeve in it. I haven't bought the insert yet, and I'm not sure how tight I want the thumb. I hate to get it wrong, and have to buy another one.

[GeorgiaStroker]

Thumb fit is a very personal thing. Some bowlers like a snug fit, others prefer a looser feel. Obviously either extreme would be detrimental. If you are used to bowling without a thumb slug, you may have experienced the vacuum effect in which inserting the thumb creates a vacuum in the hole causing the thumb to stick. Many slugs have a channel built in that allows air to get in the hole and prevent this. I have never tried switch grips (although i'm leaning towards swapping over.) but I would assume they have an allowance for this. The best idea with switch grips is to have one that fits well, and another a little larger for when the thumb swells. The other solution is to drill the grip slightly larger and add or remove bowles tape or an ace shur cushion as needed.

[bowl1820]

Bill Taylor's general rule (of thumb) is that a thumb inserted in and out of a hole, pressed to one side of the hole, should only barely touch the other side.

As GS said above the Thumb fit is a very personal thing, there is also the choice between a round hole and a oval.

[billf]

Some people may not know this and some will disagree BUT according to the USBC coaches association all thumb holes should have clean tape in them. A fit too loose will cause gripping, as you have experienced. Too tight and it rubs which can cause swelling, callouses, blisters, etc. My own thumb was too large but I had trouble getting my thumb out when smaller. I purchased the shur cushion mentioned above from bowlingball.com. They don't last very long but it was a comfortable way for me to learn how tight my thumb could be without getting stuck. It helped increase the trust factor (that my thumb would come out) that I hadn't even realized I had. Now I use a piece of white tape on the side that the fingers are on and a piece of black tape on the backside. This is the same on all my thumb (Vise IT) sleeves.

[TheSheibs]

For me personally, I have a thumb that tends to start small but as I bowl the thumb swells up a little bit. I have to make sure that my thumb hole is drilled a little bit bigger to allow my thumb swelling not to affect my grip. I notice it the most when I throw the ball and my thumb sticks a little bit. That's when I let up on the pressure that I am using with my thumb, since I have a fingertip grip and use my thumb to keep the ball from slipping off. It was more noticeable with a conventional grip but not with a fingertip grip. I think using tape or even the shur cushion that has been mentioned would solve any problem that you may be having. Just don't get the thumb hole drilled to small or if your thumb swells you will have a harder time using that ball since the thumb hole would be a lot tighter and will stick more. Having your thumb stick could cause your ball to go "Brooklyn" since you would be releasing the ball a little later.

[billf]

Don't grip the ball with your thumb. Centrifugal force will keep the ball in place. The thumb is only suppose to be used to balance the ball within your hand. The less grip, the more free the arm swing can be.

[The German Shepherd]

I prefer a thumb hole that is fairly loose and oval in shape. I hold to the USBC coaches idea that means TAPE. Tape makes my thumb hole size very flexible and changeable to meet every situation. I know some prefer the changeable thumb inserts, but that is an expense that I am prepared to deal with.

Jay

[edpup316]

Im one of those lucky guys who can bowl 16 games and my thumb wont change a bit. Not even temperture effects my thumb very much. The only time i can remember effecting my thumb is when i bowled jr. gold in Texas. It was 120 degres needs less to say my thumb grew a little. Had to put new them slugs in 3 of my balls cause i had to work it out so much. My girlfriend on the other hand, she throws a few balls without protective tape and her thumb goes up like a balloon... poor girl

[RoccoRock]

I got the ball today, and my ball driller flat out nailed it. Perfect size, I never got stuck in it, and was able to get out clean, and at the same time I didn't have to squeeze at all. Now I have no excuses, if I suck (which I did today) I can't blame the ball, I'm just not a good bowler when my thumb is in the ball. I do make spares fairly well, so I may just have a very exspensive spare ball now.

[billf]

What do you feel is the problem with the thumb in?

[RoccoRock]

What do you feel is the problem with the thumb in?

Me, I suck at it. From what I see on the videos I take, it's a long list of problems. I thought about posting the video, but quite frankley I'm embarresed. Basicly I bowled without my thumb for so long that I developed bad habits that are sooooo hard to break. My arm bends on the backswing, straighetns out at the top, then bends again on the way down. It looks like I'm shoving the ball down the lane, yet I have no power. At the top of my backswing, the ball is supposed to be in line with my head, correct? Well it's not, it's pretty much behind my back, or above my left shoulder. i worked really hard to correct everything, but even when I think I am doing something correct, I watch the video and it looks exacly the same. Plus I tend to stand up out of my shot at the release point, and my footwork sucks. There's probably more that I am not catching, but I think that's enough problems to just want to throw in the towel. I have a lesson with the pro shop guy this Wed, and I can't decide if it's going to be a good thing, and he can get me straightened out, or it's a further waste of money. It may be like asking a mechanic to change the spark plugs on car with a blown engine. I am thinking of just stopping the experament now, before I waste more money I don't have, and have him help me get my two handed delivery even better. I threw a few shots two handed Thursday, and it felt great, looked good (well, as good as an amature two hander can look) and was just soooooo much more accurate. I know the guy can, and is willing to help me no matter what I do, he is supportive of any style that makes a bowler better. I do this all the time, just as I commit to something, and spend a lot of money on it, I find something else works better.

[eugene02]

Well Rocco, Just post the video! nothing to be afraid of.. Me myself, I don't bowl as good.. So I'm also learning.. From videos and this forum.. Best if your able to get a coach to teach you.. That'll be good :)

[billf]

There are drills you can do for everything you listed. It's your money and time so get all you can out of your lesson with the pro shop guy. I would bet part of the elbow bending has something to do with the 2-handed bowling as it's a necessity for that style. My only issue with 2-handed is, how can anybody bowl that way later in life?

[GeorgiaStroker]

Agree. Getting hands on coaching is the ideal. There really aren't any coaches around here I would trust but I did pick up some good drills and instruction from the Dick Ritger DVDs. You can find them at www.bowlingbookstore.com

[billf]

Agree. Getting hands on coaching is the ideal. There really aren't any coaches around here I would trust but I did pick up some good drills and instruction from the Dick Ritger DVDs. You can find them at www.bowlingbookstore.com

There are no certified coaches listed within 45 miles. No wonder you don't trust any of them. It's actually scary though when you realize anyone can say they are a coach and unless you ask for their certifiaction card or search yourself, you would never know.

[GeorgiaStroker]

Yeah after I got burned by the yahoo that calls himself a ball driller I learned my lesson and found a certified driller who knows what he's doing. I don't mind the 50 mile drive to see him when I need a ball drilled but I'm not sure about driving that far for ongoing coaching. Being a widowed father of young kids doesn't make it any easier.

[RoccoRock]

I watched the video again. It looks like the reason I pull up at the foul line is because I crouch too much in the first place. So my body position at the release point is good, so I need to adjust my body position on my approach. That's probably also the reason the ball doesnt stay in line with my head, cause my head is leaning over. I want to go bowl a few games before my coaching session to see it I can fix a few things myself. Don't know if I'm going to be able to though. I also noticed a while back that when I used a 4 step approach, it worked better than the 5, so I'm gonna go back to that.

[billf]

When you hit your finish position remember to line every thing up; toe, knee, chin. To keep the head still I start in almost the same position as I finish in as far as my knee and waist bend with my chest up and out, head up.

[RoccoRock]

Looks like I have to put the whole thing on hold for a little while. I shredded my thumb today playing around.

[RoccoRock]

Ok, so I am passed the identity crisis, and my thumb has heeled, and I'm back to project "one hand." I went for a lesson with the shop pro, and a few issues came up. The one that I had the hardest time getting correct was, in fact the thumb. I kept grabbing with the thumb at the bottom of my swing. He said it was getting better, but I was still doing it. I still need to figure out how much tape I need, and what size the thumb needs to be. If I can get that fixed, I'm in good shape.

[billf]

It took me a long time to learn this. If you can bend your thumb to grab the ball, it's too loose. It needs to be snug enough that you don't have the urge to squeeze it.

[RoccoRock]

Been doing some release drills at home, I may have it down now. Hope to take it to the lanes tonight and find out for sure. Any time I missed during my lesson, it was either my feet got too fast, or I grabbed with my thumb.

[RoccoRock]

Ok, I'm officially in trouble. Bowled 25 games, to a whopping 148 average, with a high game of 172. That's 30 pins below my league average, hck the high game was still 6 pins below my average. I bowled most of the season one hand, no thumb. I tried more tape to snug up the thumb hole, I toom take out, I cut down my backswing. I did everything i could think of to straighten myself out tonight, and I got no where near close at any point. I have successfully gone from a decent bowler to a terrible bowler, all because I wanted a style that looked better, and was more well respected. I ready to quit, and go back to my old hobby, racing remote controlled cars.

[RoccoRock]

I think theres 2a problems going on. No matter how hard I try not to, I still muscle the ball, and I just cant get my thumb clear. Now, one could do with the other. Because I am muscling the ball too much, I'm holding on too tight with my thumb. Gonna give it another try tomorrow, we will see what happens.

[RoccoRock]

Ok, as usual I have top go back on something I said. I said I would commit to one hand using my thumb until November, but just can't. It's not so much that I don't think I can do it, and be good at it. It's more of the fact I am good at something else, and I should work on getting even better at that. Now I'm not two handing either, I have give back to the style I've used for over two years. One hand ,no thumb. I posted on another thread about an upcoming tourney, and I think I can do well if I revert back to not using my thumb. I worked on it the last two days, and today, it was money. I taped both sessions. I had trouble yesterday, so I watched the video. I solved the issues using things my coach told me last week, when I had my thumb in. I translated it to no thumb, and it was very good. I slowed down my feet, and relaxed my arm swing, and the results made me very happy. I hope to post video soon. So, i just have to be what I am, and bowl how I know how to bowl to be my best, and not worry about what people think, or how there are really no top level bowlers who bowl like me. I am an "idiot" palm bowler, and if anyone had an issue with that, come get some.

[RoccoRock]

http://youtu.be/6ROGkOdkgAM

[ursus]

Glad you finally found your identity. Best of Luck in your Tourney!!!

[billf]

That video looked good. Score is what matters, not how you get there.

[RoccoRock]

Only thing I wish I could do is release the ball lower. Any time I have tried that I have messed myself up so I guess I just have to live with it. Thinking about trying a 14 pound ball, make it a little easier to carry on the backswing. My spare ball is 14 and I feel it's easier to throw it at times. I almost bought a used 14# misfit off ebay today, but it just got a little too expensive.

[billf]

I can't explain it with just words but the no-thumb delivery lends itself to not getting as low.

[RoccoRock]

It's probably just because of the way I have to hold the ball throught the swing, and release. I have to cradle it so much, and on the release, my hand starts under the ball. Even if I could get lower, it would probably be hard on my back, just like 2 handing was. I'll live with it, as long as I like the way it feels, and the results are good. It is smoother than it used to be. I used to look like a ape chucking a cocoanut, now I look like a chimp chucking a basketball, so I'm elvolving.

[RoccoRock]

I have to lower my expectations for this tornament. I totally forgot that they use sport patterns, and I've never bowled on a sport pattern in my life. I will have no plan of attack and probably don't have a ball in my arsenal that will work.

[jimlc2001]

Sport patterns typically have more oil...the length will vary. Just prepare to move right, your target left, or slow down your ball speed.

[RoccoRock]

Been thinking about it all day, and I'm not even sure I want to do it now. After what I went through this week to get ready, now I may chicken out. I'm kind of kicking myself, because this summer, instead of trying to change myself, I should have stayed with my style, and practiced sport patterns. My biggest problem with tomorrow night is they don't announce the pattern until you get there, so I cant even read up on how to play the pattern, or ask questions here. If I skip it, I can do a smaller, cheaper tourney Sunday. Now, that's on a sport pattern too, but I already know the pattern. Its Shark. For $30, I can do that tourney, it's best 3 out of 4 games, and usually only 15-20 people. That might be worth the money just to get some experience playing Shark. Tomorrow night is $50, 4 games, no dropping of a score, and 35-40 people. What's cool about tomorrow, it's sponsored by DV8, and they give away two balls a night randomly.

[RoccoRock]

After giving it some thought, and reading more about both tourneys, I'm gonna skip tomorrow and go Sunday. I've also been reading up on Shark, and how to play it. Not saying I'm gonna go kill it, but at least I can start with a plan. Plus, the tourney tomorrow night is $60, plus a $25 membership fee. I can go Sunday, bowl the tourney, play the brackets, and do the 50/50 for less than just the entry fee of the other one