Bad footwork, bad slide, bad balance.

[RoccoRock]

Ok, so I watched a lot of video of myself bowling over the last few days. I must say, a lot of what I'm doing, either two handed or one handed looks good. The one issue I have seems to be my feet. I have terrible footwork, my right foot stays parrallel to the foul line the whole time. It looks like I have a bad slide, and hence, bad balance at the foul line. Maybe bad timing as well, as it seems like I am releasing the ball while still sliding. Any tips, or drills I can use to improve my footwork and slide? I have good shoes, with interchangable sliding soles. I tried ones with less slide at times but that just made my balance worse. I work in a warehouse, by myself, and I can set up a little practice lane. I take an old cracked ball and throw it a few times to work on things. I can't slide in the warehouse, I just take a big step. i watched video from that, and everything looks so solid. Great balance, great armswing, great release. I almost what to work on taking the slide out of my game at the bowling alley, just bowl in sneakers. This weekend I was home, in my socks on the linolium floor working on my slide. I thinking it's more that my push off isn't very good. I'll hit the lanes at lunch today and work on just that.

[J Anderson]

I'm trying to get my head around how you can walk towards the foul line with your right foot parallel to it. I think you'll have to post some video so we can see what you're doing. Maybe now that I have some video of myself I can post it and you can have a good laugh at my style or lack there of.

[striker12]

ok umm there are a few drills that i know is a 1 step aprroach helps good with finding the perfect slid and a good releace another one for jsut your arm motion and releace is the go down on 1 knee other legg still up right at the foul line swing your arm 3 times and throw the ball but this is more of a release exersice but it was help with balance cause u have to put your one foot thats on the groun right infront of your kneee, not right right into of knee but abit ahead of it on the same board but maby the rectangle with the inner part of your legs.

and if you want to learn some good balance go to a gym or your own house and do some squats buld up the mussle in your legs abit ....... i go no balanc eon my left leg no more cause i smashed my ankle with the bowling ball at the end of the winter league soo my balanc eis abit off but i normaly jsut stand right back up and walk away from the lane after i throw the ball.


but one thing that will help you is the video that norm duke has got out it helps you with everything its $40 i have not got it yet im still looking for one cant buy online anymore i got rid of my credit cards because of some problems.

[billf]

I've read this thread several times. I know if I saw it, I could fix it. I'm willing to bet that with both styles having different footwork you probably now have some kind of hybrid. The right foot being parallel is perplexing; I imagine it's more of a pigeon toe. If you want somebody to see it but still don't want it posted here, up load it to youtube and send the link in a private message to whomever you choose.

[ursus]

DO you have it sideways the whole time or just when on the last step when you slide. I know I have a tendancy to turn my slide foot sideways on my slide.

[RoccoRock]

Thanks @Billf, I will probably post the video. I'm not embarrassed by my foot turning, it's odd, but not embarrassing to me. My footwork, one handed or two looks the same. Only difference is with two handed I have a hop on the last two steps just like Belmo and Osku. As far as the footwork being a hybrid of the two styles, that's not the case. I watched a video from early 2010, when I was bowling exclusively one hand, no thumb, and the footwork was identical. That was before I have ever thrown a ball with two hands.
@Ursus: yes the foot is turned the whole time. I have seen, and mostly the two handers, turn the foot they push off with as they push. That's another reason I was leaning tword two handing, because even though my foot being turned the whole time is odd, having it turned on the push off while two handing is somewhat normal. However, i think my back issues, from lifting boxes all fay every day for 17 years, may not let me be a two hander.
@Striker12: leg strengh is not even close to being a problem. I have very strong, muscular athletic legs. I will try the drills you recommended. That Norm Duke video is in stock at my local pro shop if I geel like checking it out. I have a lesson with the shop pro this Wed, and this will most likely be the biggest thing I want him to work on with me. I thought of trying a sneaker on my right foot, to get a better push off. In fact, I'm going bowling i forget a few minutes, and I may try it today.

[RoccoRock]

Btw: the combination of speed typing, a terrible phone, and it inability to edit while on this site with a mobile phone lead to some odd spellings, and phrases in my post. Thinking of it, the sentance i just typed should be my signature.

[billf]

Does your right foot turn out more than your left when walking normally?

[RoccoRock]

Not really, but they both turn out a little. I guess when im bowling in order to keep my left foot straight for a good slide, my right foot turns more to compensate. Just got done with a few games, and mixed results. First 3 games, all thumb in and concentrating on a good slide I did well. Forget game one, game two was 205, hame 3 175. Game 4 I bowled a little two handed, not great. Then, problems in game 5. The approaches at this bowling alley are very dirty. I was sticking really bad, even when I changed to a sole that slides more. In the middle of game five I packed up, and put my sneakers on to go home. Then it hit me, throw a few in sneakers, see what happens. If they throw me out, who cares, I'm never going back because the approaches are terrible. After feeling it out a little, I bolwed a decent game, two handed, in sneakers. The great thing about sneakers is you nevet have to guess, your footing will always be the same. On the way out, I spoke to the guy at the counter about it. He said most bowling alleys if they catch you will say something, but if you can get away with it, and no one knows then what can they do. Obviously he tried to talk me out of it, and I expct the advice here will be the same, but I'm thinking about buying sneakers that look like bowling shoes, just use them for bowling, and going for it.

[RoccoRock]

I just spoke to someone at the USBC rules department about my sneakers. They said "as long as it doesn't mark the approach, it's legal." I have no issue there, if anything I mark the approach less in sneakers than bowling shoes. In my shoes, when i drag my back foot I mark the approach. After a few throws the are sweeping rubber marks all the way across the approach, and I destoy that shoe. In fact, my new shoes, about 6 months old, the right shoe is destroyed already. In sneakers, I don't drag my foot, I push amd plant. No more sliding for me.

[billf]

I don't slide either but I do bring my balance foot to where it belongs. I just changed the heel and sole to where it grabs but not so much that it strains my joints.

[RoccoRock]

My balance foot is in the right spot, it's just sideways. No matter what, I have to start wearing a sneaker on my right foot. Buying new bowling shoes every six months is too much money. I went to Walmart and bought $15 sneakers. I want to upload video, but my camera sucks almost as much as my phone.

[RoccoRock]

Tonights my coachingthe session, and I'm a little nervous about telling the pro that I want to either bowl in sneakers or just not slide in my shoes. He's open minded, he never tried to talk me out of two handing, I just feel wierd about this subject though. I'll bowl a few practice games this afternoon and see how it goes before i tell him anything.

[billf]

Don't hide anything about what you are going through about this from him. To get your money's worth he has to know what's happening, how it's affecting you and what you expect before he can help you. A coach's job isn't to judge you as a person only to teach you the techniques needed to improve your game. Every coach's goal is to have the client be the best they can be, nothing else.

[RoccoRock]

So the shop pro called me this afternoon to confirm, and while I had him on the phone I told him about my sneakers idea. He did chuckle a little, but he said to come down, do whatever I want, one hand, two hands, sneakers whatever, and he will give me an honest opinion on what I should do. Now, he knows I am trying to convert to a conventional delivery, but I did tell him when i got there that I was thinking of two handing the strike ball, and one handing spares. So he said "why don't you feel like you can throw strikes one handed." I told him because I have bowled a lot of games, both ways, and I just strike more two handed. So he told me to throw a few one handed. He said "if thats what you want to do, you are closer than you think if you stick with it." This was my favorite quote, he said "your not as screwed up as I thought you would be." That's the nicest thing someone has ever said to me :D I used to palm it, two hand it, I tried a Sarge Easter grip, so he figured I would be confused. I told him I'm not really confused, but I am working on too much at once. He liked what I was doing, he said my footwork, though a bit odd isn't bad. He said the only issue with my feet is they get too quick sometimes. He brought up the ball I was using, a 505a, and that it's not strong enough. So I will get the 919c reworked soon. He got me to loosen my arm swing, so I'm not pushing, or muscling the ball. Any time I missed, it wasn't by much. Lots of good stuff. I told him for now my only goal is too not tank my average. It's at 178 right now. After 6 games of the lesson, my average for those 6 games was exactly 178. Felt good, felt smooth, and I'm happy. Still have work to do, but I am closer than I thought.

[ursus]

Did you end up going with the 2 handed or did you go 1 handed?

[RoccoRock]

One handed, thumb in, in my bowling shoes, sliding. I've been wanting to switch for a while, but just wasn't confident, or confortable. Now that I had my session, and I've learned what I needed to learn, I feel good about it. I have 6 weeks until my leauge starts up again, and I will be bowling one handed every game for the rest of the summer, unless I suck then I may have to switch back, but I don't think that will happen.

[ursus]

Stick with it and it will become second nature. Best of luck

[billf]

If you suck you will switch back. How long of sucking are you willing to give it? We all have slumps and suck for awhile. It's part of life in any sport. Keep thinking positive. Glad you enjoyed the lesson and was able to learn from it. I don't know what it cost you but it sounds like it was money well spent. Many scoff at the notion of paying for a lesson from a certified coach but they are properly trained to pick out key flaws no matter the bowler's personal style. And the real good coaches check their ego at the door and will confer with another coach they can't seem to convey the message to the bowler. We all learn differently and we all coach differently. Think happy thoughts and watch this season's average, one-handed with thumb be at least 190.

[RoccoRock]

At first, I found it hard to sign up to "take a lesson." I feel like I've been bowling long enough I don't need a teacher. I look at it a little different, to me it's a coaching session, and everyone, even pro atheleates need coaching. I define sucking not so much by scores. It's more consistancy. If I can't hit my mark repeatedly, something is wrong. However, at this point, I think instead of "giving up" if I am sucking, it may just be time for a refreasher with the shop pro. I originaly had a time frame of two weeks before the league starts, if I can't do it then I need to switch back, and give myself to weeks to dial back in two handed. Now, I am shifting my timeframe, to November. Honestly, I think I can easily keep up my average, and more than likley improve it by one handing. Especially with help from my coach, and the people on this board. I don't see me switching back, I think I'm pretty well set on this. Especially beacause I am spending good money to get my balls re drilled, and coaching sessions, I've pretty much commited myself to it.

[RoccoRock]

One of the things he said he really like was the way I flattened my wrist to pick up my ten pin. I am able to roll it straight, end over end, accurately. He told me if I can do that, I dont need a plastic ball for spares. That would be nice, one less ball to carry in the bag.

[billf]

Good to hear a reasonable time frame. I was just worried that if a bad couple of weeks came up you would get discouraged and give up.
Think of bowling like football. The pro's really don't need to be taught the game. Instead they have observers fine tune technique, over see the mental and physical aspects of the game including developing a game plan. I've also noticed that most great coaches were not great at the sport they coached. They didn't have the God given, natural, it comes easy, talent. That helps in the end because they understand how hard you have to work, the mental anguish, etc The greats of any sport have so much talent that they don't really know the hows or whys of how they perform their jobs (physically). That's why coaches get so excited when their athlete does well. It's the correct combination of the athlete's talent and the coach's knowledge.

[RoccoRock]

I think that's why I can make a good bowling coach someday. I've had to work my butt off to get good at it, and I didn't pick it uo until later in life. So I have had to learn everything, instead of it coming natural trhough time. Plus, I've used ever delivery in the book, so no matter how someone is bowling I have some refrence becasue I've tried it myself.

[billf]

Go for it. Level 1 is available on-line at www.bowl.com/coaching. The cost for the course is $49.00 Become a Registered Volunteer and help out at your local center with the USBC Youth program. Working with the small kids will help you develop more patience seeing as most of them have the attention span of a door knob. But they have fun and so don't I!

[RoccoRock]

Well, let me get my game straightened out first before I do any real coaching. I'm pretty god at helping my friends. I have 2 teamates whos averages went way up the second half of last year after they started listening to me. I have a few years before my little girl can even pick up a ball, hopefully by then I know enough to teach her.

[Tampabaybob]

Rocco, don't be too concerned about how much talent you have or don't have in thinking about coaching. I've been at it for over 30 years and I never miss a Saturday, and look forward to being there with the kids each week. You will be amazed at how much pleasure you'll get out of helping the kids, whether is a little one besting his score by 20 pins and shooting 80 or one of the kids shooting a 279. They're all great moments you'll love to be a part of and enjoy. Take Bill's advice and get the level 1 course under your belt and go for it. You won't be sorry you did and you'll touch a lot of lives on the way. I'm sure Bill will share the same outlook.

By the way, I usually shoot a few games after the league on Saturday, and have 2 -4 of the kids bowling with me. Part of it is for some extra coaching, but the underlying reason, is they love to kick my butt and sometimes do ! Love it.

Bob

[RoccoRock]

It's not so much about talent, I just have to make sure I know what I'm talking about. Last thing I want to do is give someone bad advice, but I guess I do that on these boards every day.

[billf]

You will also be amazed at how much you will learn that can help your game. The funny thing is, when you coach somebody else how to do something, you end up fixing some of your own issues without even trying. My finish position has improved drmatically just by showing others how to do it properly and showing them the drill so many times.

[billf]

And I agree with Bob, coaching the kids is a blast. Most of them listen better than the adults that average squat, think they know everything yet still wanted coaching. I get tired of hearing, "I don't do that", "That won't work", etc

[RoccoRock]

I was bowling yesterday afternoon, and there was a mom and two older kids, and one little kid bowling next to me. They were in the very first lane, and the little kid threw one that missed the lane, and rolled down the side, and into the back room. She was yelling at him, telling him "it's not a basketball" I almost went over and showed him how to at least get it on the lane, but I didn't want to cross angry momma.

[billf]

I do it all the time. The mother's appreciate (?) the free baby sitter and I end up getting more kids enrolled in the youth programs.

[Tampabaybob]

Don't ever be afraid to approach someone in that situation. 99% of the time, the parent will appreciate the intrusion, and as Bill says, 'It's a great opportunity for you to get the kids more involved and maybe join the youth league." Besides, imagine how good the kid might have felt if all of a sudden he was knocking down pins because you showed him a few things. You know how to bowl...you CAN be a great help to someone that is just starting out. Be confident in your knowledge, and you'll be surprised how you'll feel watching someone actually bowl well based on what you've showed them.

Bob