Did I make a mistake

[Okie_Ray]

Ok, here's the situation

I started bowling when I was 8 and have always used a conventional drill.

So I go to go bowling recentley (hadn't been in over a decade) and whala...bowling ball is split in pieces so time for a new ball.

My old ball was a Brunswick Eclipse #12 conventional drill.
My new ball is a Ebonite Cyclone #14 fingertip drill.

Did I make too big of jump at one time?

[bowl1820]

Ok, here's the situation

I started bowling when I was 8 and have always used a conventional drill.

So I go to go bowling recentley (hadn't been in over a decade) and whala...bowling ball is split in pieces so time for a new ball.

My old ball was a Brunswick Eclipse #12 conventional drill.
My new ball is a Ebonite Cyclone #14 fingertip drill.

Did I make too big of jump at one time?

The Cyclone is a good entry level ball, nothing wrong with it as a starting place to get back in the game.

[Okie_Ray]

I like the ball...

Just worried that jumping from a 12 to a 14 and going from conventional to fingertip all at the same time might have been a bit....over-ambitious, shall we say

[bowl1820]

I like the ball...

Just worried that jumping from a 12 to a 14 and going from conventional to fingertip all at the same time might have been a bit....over-ambitious, shall we say

Since you haven't been bowling in ten years, it's like your starting from scratch. Those changes are basically meaningless, because you'll have no real muscle memory from the old stuff.

[Okie_Ray]

Well, than that is good since my last ball was drilled way out of whack adn I had to make changes just to be able to bowl.

Anyway, I guess I didn't do too bad since the first 3 games i bowled with it were 97, 92, 96

[Okie_Ray]

Well,

Went and bowled another 3 game set...Average 111.33 with a best of 136.

A few things I noticed are I am pulling the ball across my body... which I was able to adjust body position and at least get it down the lane...

The bigger problem I noticed is that at the peak of my back-swing I am losing the ball already and am pulling/pushing the ball to keep from dropping it rather than allowing the natural swing. Also, as I start to lose the ball I noticed I am tucking my pinky finger to the ball trying to push the ball against my fingers so I can hold onto it for a bit longer. Additionally, I have absolutely no spin on my ball anymore.

So, I am really starting to 2nd guess my choice to go to a heavier ball since I can't hold on to it...I even had (and nearly many more) a back-swing release (talk about embarrassing)... I have already tried adding grip strips and wipe the ball and holes (it is very oily at the lane I bowl at) between every ball (helps only very minimally)I like the fingertip drill though. I am starting to thick that getting a 12# fingertip drilled would be a better first step and then build up to the 14 after I have learned to control/handle the new grip, build up the necessary strength, and retrain my muscles for proper form. As it is now, I bowl 3 games and spend 3-4 days with my fingers, hand, wrist, forearm, elbow and shoulder hurting and can't really hold/grab anything with my bowling hand.

So, here's a question. I remember reading about a company that does NOT use a generic core for their lighter (12# and 13#) balls but can't remember which company it was. Does anyone know? I do know it isn't Brunswick.

[J Anderson]

Well,

Went and bowled another 3 game set...Average 111.33 with a best of 136.

A few things I noticed are I am pulling the ball across my body... which I was able to adjust body position and at least get it down the lane...

The bigger problem I noticed is that at the peak of my back-swing I am losing the ball already and am pulling/pushing the ball to keep from dropping it rather than allowing the natural swing. Also, as I start to lose the ball I noticed I am tucking my pinky finger to the ball trying to push the ball against my fingers so I can hold onto it for a bit longer. Additionally, I have absolutely no spin on my ball anymore.

So, I am really starting to 2nd guess my choice to go to a heavier ball since I can't hold on to it...I even had (and nearly many more) a back-swing release (talk about embarrassing)... I have already tried adding grip strips and wipe the ball and holes (it is very oily at the lane I bowl at) between every ball (helps only very minimally)I like the fingertip drill though. I am starting to thick that getting a 12# fingertip drilled would be a better first step and then build up to the 14 after I have learned to control/handle the new grip, build up the necessary strength, and retrain my muscles for proper form. As it is now, I bowl 3 games and spend 3-4 days with my fingers, hand, wrist, forearm, elbow and shoulder hurting and can't really hold/grab anything with my bowling hand.

So, here's a question. I remember reading about a company that does NOT use a generic core for their lighter (12# and 13#) balls but can't remember which company it was. Does anyone know? I do know it isn't Brunswick.

Bowling should not hurt. Can you hold the ball with your arm hanging straight down and then curl your wrist ( cup the ball ) and hold the position ten seconds? If you can't the ball is too heavy. If you can hold the ball like that the problem is more likely to be in the way the ball is drilled.

Having no spin on the ball is probably a result of having to focus on holding on to the ball. The harder your muscles have to work during the swing, the fewer the number of revolutions on the ball.

[billf]

Brunswick uses the same core down to 12 pounds.

[Okie_Ray]

Bowling should not hurt. Can you hold the ball with your arm hanging straight down and then curl your wrist ( cup the ball ) and hold the position ten seconds? If you can't the ball is too heavy. If you can hold the ball like that the problem is more likely to be in the way the ball is drilled.

Having no spin on the ball is probably a result of having to focus on holding on to the ball. The harder your muscles have to work during the swing, the fewer the number of revolutions on the ball.

I tried to do it with my old ball...was able to....Then I tried the 14# new ball and was unable to fully cup it...my wrist immediately got sharp shots of pain in it.

Note: You were saying hold the ball normally, straight down my side, and then flex my wrist up and forward almost like doing curls but only the wrist correct?

[Okie_Ray]

Brunswick uses the same core down to 12 pounds.

Can you show me a link to that information?

Only thing I have found on Brunswick so far is: "The unique core shape of each Brunswick ball is used for weights from 14 to 16 pounds. At 12 and 13 pounds, Brunswick uses a generic core shape with a RG-differential that is close enough to the 14 to 16 pound shape so the same drilling instructions can be used."

The only ball so far I had read that it uses the same unique core is The Ebonite Cyclone, "The Cyclone Core has the same core in 10lbs through 16lbs."

[J Anderson]

I tried to do it with my old ball...was able to....Then I tried the 14# new ball and was unable to fully cup it...my wrist immediately got sharp shots of pain in it.

Note: You were saying hold the ball normally, straight down my side, and then flex my wrist up and forward almost like doing curls but only the wrist correct?

Exactly. I really don't like to hear that you're getting sharp pains from trying to curl the 14# ball. Most of the time if the ball is too heavy the bowler either can't curl or cup it at all, or they can only hold it for a few seconds. Any pain is more of a muscle ache, like from doing three full sets of reps at the gym and would be felt in the forearm.

[bowl1820]

The Ron Clifton Wrist Test:

1: To check if your wrist is strong enough hold the ball by your side with your wrist relaxed.

Start like this-
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/TipGraphics/Relaxed2.jpg

Next Cup your wrist forward and hold it there for a slow count to 10.
Like this:
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/TipGraphics/Cupped2.JPG
If your wrist is strong enough to do this then it is strong enough to perform a good release.

Many people have the strength, but still allow their wrist to bend back during the swing like picture "A" above.

These people just have a lazy wrist. If your wrist is not strong enough to perform this test you should consider a lighter ball.

See:
Click for Ron Clifton's The Bowler’s Release (www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip20.htm)

[eugene02]

Previously, I wasn't able to cup my ball when bringing it up backwards.. however now, I do it everytime.. And managed to get to game 4 with it.. Stamina's improving slowly I guess.. last time 1 game and I'm screwed.. No more strength to continue..

[Okie_Ray]

OK, I did it right then.

The 12 I can actually curl all the way until the ball touches my forearm.

The 14 I can't even get to picture B without pain as well as already feeling my fingers slipping. I can only get it to ro9ight between picture A and picture B. Also, I noticed last time I went bowling that I was having to rush to release the ball cause I only had contact with the tips of my thumb and finger. I have already added 3 thumb strips as well.

Separate note: Since I started bowling again I have been getting strong sharp pains just above (lower tricep area) and below my elbow (upper forearm). Feels like someone heavy is standing on it.

[bowl1820]

OK, I did it right then.

The 12 I can actually curl all the way until the ball touches my forearm.

You don't need to curl the ball all the way back to he forearm! The only bowlers I see doing that are thumbless bowlers and ones trying to crank the heck out of it and rip the cover off the ball.

Plus it tenses the muscles of the forearm, make it harder to do a free arm swing.

[Okie_Ray]

Bowl1820,, I don't cup it that far when bowling, just went I did the test.

[Okie_Ray]

Here are the pics of the 12 and 14 pound ball wrist test I did. 12# is convential drilled and 14# is fingertip drilled

12# at rest
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/483/phot0152.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/phot0152.jpg/)

12# Flexed
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1882/phot0153b.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/phot0153b.jpg/)

14# at rest - already starting to slip
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4690/phot0154.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/phot0154.jpg/)

14# Flexed - as far as I could get it...was already slipping from my fingers and had my entire hand flexing including trying to hold on with my little and pointer finger
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6164/phot0155.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/phot0155.jpg/)

[Okie_Ray]

Well, we did a split season in my league this year...wasn't bad (hoped for a better finish) but still not doing as well as I know I should.

Anyway, I had the thumb plugged and re-drilled for an oval and fit much more nicely. Also noticing more and more than I can sort of fling the ball around more easily so weight isn't much a factor; actually considering going to a 15 now.

I was looking at some video of me and noticing that at release I am breaking the wrist? Am I not supposed to be doing that?

Also, noticed that I have a very high speed but low revs and my current ball, while trying to hook, just can't hang with the speed and ends up rolling out at the pins. Any suggestions for a more aggressive ball...hook/roll earlier?

[Okie_Ray]

update: ball speed is from 16.89 - 19.98 mph and that is with me holding it against leg during first 2 steps of approach

Should i go up in weight? Or just look at more aggressive/shorter balls?

[Perrin]

there is definitely nothing wrong witht those speeds I average 16-17 mph.

Do you know how many revs you put on the ball? if you are lower like you said it would likely take a stronger ball than a cyclone to get much movement unless the lanes are pretty dry.



Example my wife throws ~19MPH with only ~100-120 revs and usually only gets a few boards of movement(straight up 10) out of her Too Furious. where I throw a Misfit and get alot more movement becuase I throw ~400 revs.

[Okie_Ray]

Perrin, honestly not sure of the number of revs....all i do know is I line up slide foot on center dot and aim for 3-4 boards right of that

[Perrin]

in that case you are proabably playing in the oil. Most centers take their oil out to either the 3rd or even 2nd arrow.

I would try moveing your feet one dot to the right and also move your aim that same # of boards to the right(so Aim around the second arrow instead of third arrow).

That should get your ball to the dry a little earlier and allow it to get a little more angle to the pocket.

That move is called a 5-5 right 5 boards with the feet and 5 boards with your mark.

If the ball still doesn't come up to the pocket (or deflects too much) then try 2-2 more to the right... or if it goes through the nose after 5-5 then move 1-0 left or 2-1 left just a matter of fine tuning it to find a good line for you.

Do you have any way to take video? Some of the folks on here know alot more than I do (some are even certified Coaches)

Even a phone video can offer some assistance in us trying to help.

[Okie_Ray]

OK, I found a video of me (it is a little old from August 2012) but I still have the same general approach except I went to a 5 step and use the first 2 steps as timing steps. It contains both ball one and two of the frame (sorry for the sound) I also wear an Ebonite React/X glove now (though thinking about going back to no glove)


http://youtu.be/bLV-89zrLwM?t=10s

[noeymc]

no smart choice

[Okie_Ray]

Noeymc, not sure I understand exactly what you meant by your reply. Can you clarify for me please. Thanks.

[Perrin]

I would definitely move more to the outside to get some more ball angle into the pocket.

I can't see enough to figure out your revs. but the ball seems to be going pretty straight. and If you have now gone to a 5 step approach I can only assume that you have either stayed as fast or sped up.

One thing I notieced is that you are starting left foot on 20 but you moved at least 5 boards left on your approach. Your second ball you seem to have walked straight though.

Like I said before I would start where you are now or more 5 right and try going straight up 10 and seeing what that does for your ball reaction.
the reason I say maybe stay where you are is if you walk straight it may change the ball position enough to get you some movement.

You may have to go even farther right (first arrow target) to get more ball movement.

Better yet would be to try to find a local coach that can help you. your hand position looks to be at least part of the reason for the lack of revs. if you pause that video right at the release of your first ball it looks like your rotating your hand a little early which puts your fingers at ~5 o'clock so not alot of room to generate revs

[Okie_Ray]

Thanks Perrin,

I have in the last 2 weeks been moving further right...I line my left foot up on the 2nd arrow now...seems to be getting a little better reaction. Talked with a pro shop and we are thinking that we may rough up my ball or get a more aggressive ball and keep the current one for spare shooting. I am thinking that too since the current ball is definitely drilled for more length and would work great on dry lanes.

Now comes the search into what ball(s) and/or what manufacturer.

[billf]

I suggest working on your form before spending money on a ball. The Cyclone is a weak ball but your form isn't capitalizing on what a ball can do either.