need help with layotus for a storm frantic.

[striker12]

hey guys im planning on probly getting a storm frantic but i would want to throw it just like my throw my kinetic pearl up the right side i throw my kinetic pearl.

standing-20
laydown-18 or 17
break point-between 6

and my target is between the 2nd and 3rd arrow

599



should be a picture of my kinetic pearl layout where the light is theres a O to the left of it alittle hard to see.

[billf]

Pin to PAP distance 6 3/4", drill angle 70, VAL 35

[striker12]

im not sure of what drillking layout this is cause my brother got it and the guy who use to run the proshop down here did a really good job an dknew how people bowled and knew how to drill the ball to give them the best advantage and this ball works great its smooth threw the lane and agressive on the backend.

if i could figure out what the layout was then i could tell you but no clue hope someone could help me out by telling a layout thats simalure to this one for the storm frantic.

[billf]

What I gave was my opinion of what the layout on the Frantic would be to play that line given the more aggressive nature of the Frantic and your (as you posted) high rev rate. If you just want that layout copied then just bring the driller that ball.

[striker12]

srry bill never seen your post i was in the middle of posting when u msoted yours looks at the times but i will take a look at that one and see what i get out of it and lets see if any other people say anything else about maby a different layouts gives me abit longer to look it over

[striker12]

bill you got any idea of a site that i cna use to find out where the pin placement would be on the ball with putting the the stuf you sead idk where to find out it would also help too see if my ball would be agressive or not and then i can check out all my bowling balls.

[billf]

http://www.morichbowling.com/Education/Drilling.aspx

[striker12]

thanks bill i will check it out in abit and see what all my balls are
and see if i can find any of them there

[striker12]

my HHR is 4 1/2 -45deg -70deg

[striker12]

too reckless is 5in - 70deg - 30deg

[billf]

6 3/4 pin to PAP maximizes the ball's flare potential. I'm huge on flare. The same specs but on different balls will react differently due to ball construction and of course, lane condition.

[billf]

If you're still helping out at the pro shop, you can use a pro sect to get the measurements.

[striker12]

yeah bill i still help out there once and awhile threw the summer has been slow soo we only go in when we get called to meet in there only been there like 3 or 4 times this summer but once winter comes i wont be going as much cause im not going to drive 1hr in the winter on the 401 thats just crazy soo i will be going back once winter is over but at start of bowling season i will be there i clean up my stuff and get some of it checked.

i would use the item u used but its with the manger of the proshop and hes out of town right now the other guy thast runs the proshop when hes not there he knows how todo stuff with out it.

[billf]

So he lays out balls without measuring the exact angles?

[striker12]

kinda he jsut useing a blank paper no clue on how he dose it and im deffently no going to learn it cause it look pritty hard cause i dont want to screw up any bowling balls but i dont drill them i mostly am the only tell people on witch ball they should get after watching them throw a few shots.

[DanielMareina]

Without knowing your PAP, I would guess that the layout you have is a leverage layout. That is usually 3 3/8" off the pap, and the MB left of the thumb hole. It usually is as controlled as a high flair layout can get. I would suggest using the same layout on the new ball if that is what you like. I have at least 8 balls with my favorite layout on them. Another thing you could try to play a line like that is a 4"X4"X1". It is a high flare layout with the pin well above the fingers. It gets a good read from the coverstock as the ball goes down the lane, but saves the core energy to the back of the lane. My pro shop assistant and I both (without telling eachother) used this layout on a ball recently and both are in love with the layout. He used it on a Karma Pearl and mine was on a Fringe. I usually tried to avoid the max flare layouts because of my high rev rate, but this one actually works really well. Plus, the Fringe and Frantic are very close to the same, so I know it will work well on the Frantic too. Best of luck to you!

[bowl1820]

6 3/4 pin to PAP maximizes the ball's flare potential. I'm huge on flare. The same specs but on different balls will react differently due to ball construction and of course, lane condition.

While I might be mistaken, with the Storm Frantic having a Symmetrical core. A 6 3/4" pin to pap would give the ball a later breakpoint and reduced flare. I would agree with Dan here, you want the pin 3-4" from the pap.

Now if it had been a Asymmetrical ball you could go up to 6 1/4"

[DanielMareina]

You are correct. Asymetrical equipment can be pushed farther out and actually begin to build flare again, but a symetrical ball maxes out flare at 3 3/8" to 4" depending on the Size and Shape. Most symetrical balls would have a hard time migrating back from a 6 3/4" pin to get to optimal position.

[dgz924s]

While I might be mistaken, with the Storm Frantic having a Symmetrical core. A 6 3/4" pin to pap would give the ball a later breakpoint and reduced flare. I would agree with Dan here, you want the pin 3-4" from the pap.

Now if it had been a Asymmetrical ball you could go up to 6 1/4"


You are correct. Asymetrical equipment can be pushed farther out and actually begin to build flare again, but a symetrical ball maxes out flare at 3 3/8" to 4" depending on the Size and Shape. Most symetrical balls would have a hard time migrating back from a 6 3/4" pin to get to optimal position.

So am I reading this correct that a symetrical ball at 5x4x3 is not a good choice?

[bowl1820]

So am I reading this correct that a symetrical ball at 5x4x3 is not a good choice?

Not a good choice for what? That's a Storm Lightning PSA layout.

[DanielMareina]

We were stating that max flare is reached at a specific point. Any layout between 3 3/8" and 5 1/2" from the PAP is using the ball to the fullest. Inbetween those two points changes where the ball hooks, and how suddenly. A 5X4X3 is an excellent layout for me personally. The only time you have to worry is if you get past 6" or below 3" without doing it for a specific reason. I have a ball with a 1 1/2" pin, but I did it to fill a hole in my arsenal, it wouldn't be a good benchmark ball or for someone with only a couple balls. Does that make sense?

[dgz924s]

We were stating that max flare is reached at a specific point. Any layout between 3 3/8" and 5 1/2" from the PAP is using the ball to the fullest. Inbetween those two points changes where the ball hooks, and how suddenly. A 5X4X3 is an excellent layout for me personally. The only time you have to worry is if you get past 6" or below 3" without doing it for a specific reason. I have a ball with a 1 1/2" pin, but I did it to fill a hole in my arsenal, it wouldn't be a good benchmark ball or for someone with only a couple balls. Does that make sense?

It does, thanks!..I had to inquire as I am about buy a Fireroad and have it drilled 5x4x3. Nice to be certain as I am at the expertise of the driller, sure hate to be mad at him for my ignorance!

[dgz924s]

Not a good choice for what? That's a Storm Lightning PSA layout.

Fireroad....For what I wanted the ball to be for/react, the recommendation was the 5x4x3.

[striker12]

ok thanks dan and bowl i will take a look at those and see what my proshop guy says about it but only thing since he last drilled my last ball my bowling stlye is alittle different but i will get a video on here of me throwing the kinetic pearl but theres only one thing about me bowling my balance is off after i throw the ball cause of my ankle but i can keep the balance untill i release the ball.

[DanielMareina]

So the question will become, do you like the way the kinetic pearl reacts now (with your current bowling style), or do you remember how good it used to be, and want a ball to be like that. If you like it now, then you can duplicate the pin position, if you like it originally, then you would have to know what the layout was prior to changing your style. Most style changes will make very small differences to your PAP, so it wouldn't be a huge deal. Some on the other hand can move the PAP over 1/2", and that will make your layouts quite a bit different.

[billf]

Sorry Striker. I gave the pin to PAP that I favor on my asymmetrical balls when you were asking about a symmetrical ball. Then I typed 6 3/4" instead of 6 1/4". Glad somebody was paying more attention than I apparently was.

[striker12]

bill its ok.

and dan tell you this when my brother got the ball i could never make it hook cause i use to mussle the ball know i dont and i can make it hook pretty good i did abit of adjusting tonight at practice but i had to move 3 more boards left then normal and have to mvoe target 2 boards cause the outside had way to much oil soo i will get it drilled the same as the kinetic pearl but i will get abit different cause my kinetic pearl is dulled up and the frantic is polished i will get the drilling alittle more agressive so it matches. i had to dull it up cause it was inconstitant but sinc ei dulled it up its been consitent alot cause kow it dose not jsut slid across the lane i got it dull up at 1500 grip same as what the frantic is i think.

[DanielMareina]

Usually, dulling a ball will make it more predictable because it reads the lane earlier, but if it is rolling out, that will make it unpredictable. As for your layout, I would be tentitive as a ball driller to just keep you on the same layout. It is a fine line to walk, but if you don't experiment a little to see what works for you, you may make life harder on yourself. Personally, my ball driller (before I drilled my own stuff) loved to put a 4X4X2 or something close to that on everything I bought. He did this mostly because I wanted the ball to hook out of the house at all times. I started drilling my own equipment, and got my sponsorship, and now only have one ball laid out like that. Most of my stuff is 5X5.5X2.5 or 4.5X5X4. Although you like what you have, don't get yourself stuck there. Is there a reason you are trying to replace your ball now instead of adding to it? The frantic is a very versitile ball, and probably would be great to try a new layout with. I have drilled a handful of different layouts on the Frantic, and not a single person hasn't loved what they got. Just something to think about.

[striker12]

alright dan i will get get a frantic drilled different and still use my kinetic pearl abit and maby later on once my money comes in i might get the fringe and do it the same at the kinetic pearl or get another frantic.

[DanielMareina]

Or you could try a matte coverstock ball? Even a ball that is old can still fit in your arsenal. I kept a Hy-Road in my 6-ball bag for a year after I had bought a new one. I did this because the ball reacted differently than the new one, and became a viable option as the lanes dried out with the new ball. You don't have to have a bunch of bowling balls, but it is good to not get rid of one till you have NO need for it. I am sure you will love the Frantic. Let us know what layout your pro shop person puts on it. Or if you give a little more info on your bowling style, (speed and revs), we can throw out some ideas. Bowl up a Storm ;)

[striker12]

ok all ik about my speed is about 16-18 not fully sure when my brother comes back for a visit i will go with him out to prost and get it checked for the rev rate not fully sure but i made the ball fully go around 37-47 not fully sure i got alot of rev but im starting to slow it down soo when i go out to the pro shop to order the ball and get my stuff i have know cleaned up and checked (mainy clenaed up my HHr and checked my 900 global the nuts im having problems with it. it feels like a 16lb ball when its only 14lbs and also it makes my thumb go num when i throw it and the thumb hole is not even tight)


i dont have that many bowling balls 15 thats it and most of them are old lol

[striker12]

just talked to the guy at the proshop he sead i should get it drilled close to the kinetic pearl but not fully same cause the kinetic pearl is more agressive and dulled out i will need a little stornger layout on the frantic soo he picke dout and someone there had the same layout and he let me try his and it did work great but it did over hook on a few shots but contorllable all i had to do was a little adjustment of 2-1 soo im going with that once the ball comes in and once i get the money to pay for it i will ge tout on the lanes and record me bowling with it.

i will also get a recording on me throwing the kinetic pearl soon once i get a new camera