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AngeloPD
08-13-2012, 03:06 AM
Hey guys i've been lurking here for quite a while now. i first started bowling when i was 10 and continued to play till i was 13 (180+ average) and i was in a league with my parents but i stopped at that age. After 6 years of not playing, i wanted to play again and now my current average is about 150+. I'm looking for some advice so i can increase my revs and average to 200+.

Here is the ball that i'm currently using, 14lbs Freeze Hybrid by Columbia 300
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8644/20120801000302.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/20120801000302.jpg/)


And here are couple shots of me bowling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBL1FQbQKys&feature=youtu.be

Edit:

Update on Page 3, post #27

AngeloPD
08-13-2012, 04:07 AM
Here is the same video but with Slow motion of my release

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvWZVlsYSZA&feature=youtu.be

striker12
08-13-2012, 09:22 AM
umm i can say one thing your your is good but your playing way to much up middle you should move over to the right abit with the freeze i go up 10 with my freeze and i hit the pocket most of the time the other bit over hooks but to get more revs on the ball you should get your hand under the ball.

like at your starting stance cup your hand and jsut release abit of the cup on the backswing but keep your hand cuped for as long as u can will take some time but this will help you get under the ball more and then u will beable to do other shots where u wont have to cup your hands at the start and u will beable to bring your hands under ball.

but mostly everything else when u throw was good your balance was 50/50 someitmes u lsot balance but that was all on your spares like u where trying to throw it faster for spares u should just come up from behind the ball it will hook but enoph for u to make the spare.

eugene02
08-13-2012, 09:33 AM
Firstly, Welcome to the Board! I believe you will get good advices from here like how I did and improved on.
Secondly, KUDOS TO YOU FOR BEING ABLE TO PLAY WITH CHILDREN ON YOUR RIGHT! ( I would have flared for sure..)
Thirdly, like what striker has said, your playing too much middle with I believe has more oil than the sides.. So if you want to get more hook, it's best to start on the 2nd arrow from the right as it will has lesser oil compared to the middle and the ball will be able to enter with a more smoother angular hook.
Thats all from a noob like me >_< hope more pros will come in and share with you their point of view!

martinezsam2495
08-13-2012, 11:46 AM
How could you play with those children constantly jumping up and down and staying near or on your lane?
You have good form but just as Striker said, you do look like your losing balance on your spare shots, try to use the "broken wrist" technique for throwing it straight at single pins or clustered pins. It gives at max 1 board hook. It's meant to make the ball go straight into your target. I started playing more in the middle, but I'm 2 handed bowler, and I'm aiming at the 2nd or 3rd arrow. For more hook try playing more of the right, and rotating your wrist to the right before releasing the ball and then push forward for more speed.

Hot_pocket
08-13-2012, 12:14 PM
I think you have great form and like striker said just need to change your line. Now if the ball isnt moving on another line it could also be the lane condition the freeze hybrid is a medium-dry oil lane condition ball. Like martinez said you should try to maintain balance at the line for spares and first shots, to do that make sure the left arm doesnt snap behind your back try and keep it extended outward or find your own way to maintaining your balance. You seem to throw the ball hard also from how it looks so if you want to try and drop the speed lower the ball at set up and slow your feet down. Its hard to tell but it looks like you have a slight arm bend in your swing and cant tell if u drop the ball. Otherwise like i said really great form great follow through.

AngeloPD
08-13-2012, 03:14 PM
Hey guys thanks for all the response, i currently start at the 30th board and target the 3rd arrow. howmany boards should i move to the right and what arrow to target?

I actually really want to stay in the middle and get a lot of hook but im not getting a lot of it. is it because how my ball was drilled? should i change it?

RoccoRock
08-13-2012, 07:47 PM
I can't tell for sure, but are those house shoes? If so, invest in a good pair of shoes. Your balance could improve alot with a good pair of shoes that have a consistant slide. If they aren't house shoes, then just ignore what I said.

billf
08-13-2012, 10:21 PM
Hello and welcome to the boards. Now I'm ready to offer my advice and have you and everyone else shake their heads in disbelief.
1. Don't slow anything down. As you increase your revs that will naturally lower your speed to a point and all of it will increase as you improve with it.
2. Learn to play the inside part of the ball, like Sean Rash, Chris Barnes and Tommy Jones. In your stance rotate your ball hand clockwise so your ring finger is around the 9-10:00 position and cup your wrist about 45 degrees.
3. During the swing maintain your current swing plane BUT keep your hand INSIDE the ball. Keep your wrist in the cupped position as much as possible
4. As your hand comes perpendicular (90 degree angle) to the floor, rotate your middle finger and ring finger counter-clockwise to around the 6:00 position while uncupping your wrist. The faster you can accomplish this the greater the rev rate. While doing all this you want your thumb to exit while uncupping and let the ball roll off the end of your fingers.
5. Follow through. Have your follow through go out in front of you about head high. The old way of by your ear or over the head works well when playing a straighter line to the pocket.

Any acceleration of the arm should take place during the last part of the swing, from where the arm gets to 90 degrees from the floor through the follow through.

P.S. Try playing with a laydown at 25 and across the third arrow with a break point around the 10 board.

There are easier releases and plenty of drills for them but with what I saw I see no reason why you can't use an elite release using a part of the ball only the better players can use. Given you say you have a 150ish average your spare game must need some massive work.

AngeloPD
08-13-2012, 11:21 PM
Hello and welcome to the boards. Now I'm ready to offer my advice and have you and everyone else shake their heads in disbelief.
1. Don't slow anything down. As you increase your revs that will naturally lower your speed to a point and all of it will increase as you improve with it.
2. Learn to play the inside part of the ball, like Sean Rash, Chris Barnes and Tommy Jones. In your stance rotate your ball hand clockwise so your ring finger is around the 9-10:00 position and cup your wrist about 45 degrees.
3. During the swing maintain your current swing plane BUT keep your hand INSIDE the ball. Keep your wrist in the cupped position as much as possible
4. As your hand comes perpendicular (90 degree angle) to the floor, rotate your middle finger and ring finger counter-clockwise to around the 6:00 position while uncupping your wrist. The faster you can accomplish this the greater the rev rate. While doing all this you want your thumb to exit while uncupping and let the ball roll off the end of your fingers.
5. Follow through. Have your follow through go out in front of you about head high. The old way of by your ear or over the head works well when playing a straighter line to the pocket.

Any acceleration of the arm should take place during the last part of the swing, from where the arm gets to 90 degrees from the floor through the follow through.

P.S. Try playing with a laydown at 25 and across the third arrow with a break point around the 10 board.

There are easier releases and plenty of drills for them but with what I saw I see no reason why you can't use an elite release using a part of the ball only the better players can use. Given you say you have a 150ish average your spare game must need some massive work.

Thanks for your reply, will try all this when i bowl in the next few days.

got_a_300
08-13-2012, 11:55 PM
I agree with billf you should learn to play the inside line. I will also
add that you should learn and practice to play all across the lane from
the 1st or 2nd board on the left hand side all the way to the 1 board on
the right hand side if you really want to learn to play any part of the lane
and become a better bowler.

You should learn to break back your wrist and throw the ball straight at
single pin spares and sometimes it helps to throw the ball straight on the
dryer lanes when a hook ball is just hooking way too much.

Over the years I have taught myself to be able to play any part of the lane
on just about any condition like tonight we went out to get some practice
time in and the lanes hadn't been oiled since last week. Well to say my ball
was hooking to much would be an understatement well I pulled out the plastic
spare ball and lofted the left gutter cap and played between the 5th and 6th
arrows out to the 5th board to hit the pocket on the right hand side so that
just goes to show you that you need to learn to play anywhere on the lanes.

AngeloPD
08-14-2012, 01:39 AM
Howmuch do you guys think i can get for my freeze hybrid? i got it about a month ago and 14lbs might be a bit heavy for me.

eugene02
08-14-2012, 06:08 AM
Hello and welcome to the boards. Now I'm ready to offer my advice and have you and everyone else shake their heads in disbelief.
1. Don't slow anything down. As you increase your revs that will naturally lower your speed to a point and all of it will increase as you improve with it.
2. Learn to play the inside part of the ball, like Sean Rash, Chris Barnes and Tommy Jones. In your stance rotate your ball hand clockwise so your ring finger is around the 9-10:00 position and cup your wrist about 45 degrees.
3. During the swing maintain your current swing plane BUT keep your hand INSIDE the ball. Keep your wrist in the cupped position as much as possible
4. As your hand comes perpendicular (90 degree angle) to the floor, rotate your middle finger and ring finger counter-clockwise to around the 6:00 position while uncupping your wrist. The faster you can accomplish this the greater the rev rate. While doing all this you want your thumb to exit while uncupping and let the ball roll off the end of your fingers.
5. Follow through. Have your follow through go out in front of you about head high. The old way of by your ear or over the head works well when playing a straighter line to the pocket.

Any acceleration of the arm should take place during the last part of the swing, from where the arm gets to 90 degrees from the floor through the follow through.

P.S. Try playing with a laydown at 25 and across the third arrow with a break point around the 10 board.

There are easier releases and plenty of drills for them but with what I saw I see no reason why you can't use an elite release using a part of the ball only the better players can use. Given you say you have a 150ish average your spare game must need some massive work.

as expected from Bill!! :) :)

billf
08-14-2012, 06:53 AM
Given the way you are handling it in the videos it is not too heavy for you. However, that ball is meant for drier conditions. If you go to www.bowlingball.com they have the balls all rated with a perfect scale which lets you know what type of conditions the ball works best on. The higher the number the more oil the ball likes. For a typical house shot during league a ball rated around 180 usually works best for the majority of bowlers. Balls with a polished finish and symmetrical cores are what I recommend for people just getting back into league bowling. They clear the heads clean and have smoother hooks with a controlled reaction compared to matte, dull or sanded balls with asymmetrical cores.
The Storm Frantic, DV8 Reckless, Brunswick Versa-Max are all good, polished symmetrical balls that will open the lanes up quite a bit for you.

With your Freeze try standing at 20 (middle dot), throw it over the second arrow (10) with a break point around 5. If you miss right then move your feet right two boards at a time keeping the target the same. take some of your practice sessions and just work on standing one place and hitting a mark ten boards to the right (with your first ball). Don't worry about pin count. This will help with accuracy playing the entire lane. Once you cross the middle, with every two boards you move your feet, move your target 1. You will leave a lot of pins so the second ball line up where you want and work on converting your spares. Good luck.

J Anderson
08-14-2012, 07:28 AM
Hey guys thanks for all the response, i currently start at the 30th board and target the 3rd arrow. howmany boards should i move to the right and what arrow to target?

I actually really want to stay in the middle and get a lot of hook but im not getting a lot of it. is it because how my ball was drilled? should i change it?

You may not have a ball that is strong enough for the lane conditions to play where you want to play. A big part of this game is to figure out where the lane is going to let you play. I've seen some very talented bowlers struggle in the sport league because they get an idea that the pattern should be played a certain way and they just won't adjust their line.

Hot_pocket
08-14-2012, 11:06 AM
You may not have a ball that is strong enough for the lane conditions to play where you want to play. A big part of this game is to figure out where the lane is going to let you play. I've seen some very talented bowlers struggle in the sport league because they get an idea that the pattern should be played a certain way and they just won't adjust their line.

Thats what im thinking the freeze will only move on so much and depending on his rev rate and speed he may need something more aggressive and its true There was a video of PDW shooting 300 in a team tournament recently and the reason was because he had a look on the inside of the lane that others didnt and werent playing.

RoccoRock
08-14-2012, 07:38 PM
I wouldn't sell the Freeze. First, it's probably not worth much at all. Second, I would be willing to bet that someday, you will need it, even as just a practice ball. I still have my freeze, and if I'm going to bowl for fun with friends, at an unfamiliar alley, I bring the Freeze.

striker12
08-14-2012, 08:18 PM
angelo dont sell your freeze cause one of these days the lanes might be dry or something and u will need it i still have mine thats pin down and i also have my too reckless pin up soo if the freeze over hooks i grab it dont think that u wont work cause there will be a lane condtion where u will need it and if u sell it and dont got it your games will end up getting low due to the ball v0oer hooking.

Hot_pocket
08-14-2012, 09:52 PM
like they said dont sell it it will come in handy just consider getting another ball thats stronger but be ready to move around. You can make the freeze work but it will take more effort (slowing speed changing lines adding revs) and if your not that versatile then it will be hard no offense.

AngeloPD
08-14-2012, 10:25 PM
I'm probably going to get a DV8 hellraiser revenge, heard alot of good reviews and saw tons of videos. The league i joined will start in two weeks, you guys think i have enough time to practice with the DV8?

billf
08-14-2012, 10:37 PM
There is always enough time even if you have to wait until after the league starts. ***WARNING*** The DV8 Hell Raiser Revenge is the most aggressive, heavy oil ball on the market. Don't be surprised if you have to stand all the way left and throw it across the 4th or even 5th arrow. If there is enough oil, it doesn't matter how far out you throw it, IT WILL COME BACK.

Hot_pocket
08-14-2012, 11:07 PM
I'm probably going to get a DV8 hellraiser revenge, heard alot of good reviews and saw tons of videos. The league i joined will start in two weeks, you guys think i have enough time to practice with the DV8?

if thats what you really want to do then yea...like bill said see what kind of oil your going to be getting in the league and the DV8 is an absolute monster. i say have it as back up it doesnt hurt to have to different balls if your going to get serious about bowling. If you want to practice with it figure about a week to get it drilled unless your pro-shop has it in stock and can punch it up for you all in one day then you would have almost a full 2 weeks.

AngeloPD
08-15-2012, 12:35 AM
I got my freeze hybrid from my pro-shop for $139 with drilling and finger inserts + 2 free game. you think thats a good deal? i saw my current ball selling in bowlingball.com for $90.

Bill, i'll probably just practice my cup and uncup first before i get another ball. Need to inrease my revs a little bit.

i will post another video the next time i bowl. thanks guys

jimlc2001
08-15-2012, 01:31 AM
That price is good for the freeze hybrid. Most shop owners will charge $50 plus for drilling and inserts. The 2 games is a nice bonus.

DanielMareina
08-15-2012, 11:56 AM
It amazes me that no one has said this yet, but you are putting the ball down on the approach!!! There is no oil on a lane for typically one foot on a bowling lane. That means that you are putting it down about 16" before the oil starts. This is going to ruin your down lane hook, and pin carry. It will also cause the ball to change directions immediately after you let it go! Put a towel on the foul line and then throw shots over the top of the towel. That will make a HUGE difference in your ball reaction, rev rate, and scores. As a couple people have mentioned, the ball is probably a bit heavy for you. That will cause you to drop it early and lose revs. Part of your revs will come from pushing the ball off your thumb before your fingers come out, and the other part will come from lift created by your fingers. I would try the towel trick, if you aren't capable of throwing the ball over the towel, then I would buy a lighter ball. Although, a lot of balls don't have a weight block below 14lbs, so be careful what you choose. If you are able to get over the towel, then the Freeze Hybrid is a very good ball to start with. I wouldn't waste money on a new ball until you work on your game. Best of luck!

Hot_pocket
08-15-2012, 06:36 PM
It amazes me that no one has said this yet, but you are putting the ball down on the approach!!! There is no oil on a lane for typically one foot on a bowling lane. That means that you are putting it down about 16" before the oil starts. This is going to ruin your down lane hook, and pin carry. It will also cause the ball to change directions immediately after you let it go! Put a towel on the foul line and then throw shots over the top of the towel. That will make a HUGE difference in your ball reaction, rev rate, and scores. As a couple people have mentioned, the ball is probably a bit heavy for you. That will cause you to drop it early and lose revs. Part of your revs will come from pushing the ball off your thumb before your fingers come out, and the other part will come from lift created by your fingers. I would try the towel trick, if you aren't capable of throwing the ball over the towel, then I would buy a lighter ball. Although, a lot of balls don't have a weight block below 14lbs, so be careful what you choose. If you are able to get over the towel, then the Freeze Hybrid is a very good ball to start with. I wouldn't waste money on a new ball until you work on your game. Best of luck!

i couldnt really tell but i thought he was dropping on the foul line but wasnt sure....i get alot of luck with drops lol

AngeloPD
08-15-2012, 10:26 PM
Here's an update video, average of 165+. i started at 20th board and targeted the 2nd arrow. any additional advise would be greatly appreciated

Sorry for the quality of the video, used my moms point and shoot so it can be mounted on a tripod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPBoDGxsp3E&feature=youtu.be

billf
08-15-2012, 10:40 PM
Tuck your elbow in closer to your body in your stance. This will help a bit more with accuracy. Wish I could see you bowl in person.

AngeloPD
08-15-2012, 11:10 PM
I can't seem to do the cup and uncup method, it's always cup and release. any suggestions?

Hot_pocket
08-19-2012, 12:55 PM
I can't seem to do the cup and uncup method, it's always cup and release. any suggestions?

the cup un-cup method isn't a must its just something some bowlers do it comes down whats comfortable to you and how you release the ball http://youtu.be/8S8n9CGjBwY this was posted in the video section also by bowl1890 check it out

Hot_pocket
08-19-2012, 12:56 PM
Bowl1820 * originally posted the video

AngeloPD
08-21-2012, 03:17 AM
My wrist hurts after a couple games of bowling, any ideas why?

JaMau24
08-21-2012, 05:01 AM
My wrist hurts after a couple games of bowling, any ideas why?

To put it simply, the way you are bowling is strenuous on your wrist. The ball could be too heavy for you as well. Some people here might be able to give you a better answer than I can, but all I'd suggest is to build up your wrist strength or learn to throw it differently so you won't put as much stress on your wrist. I'd also suggest a wrist brace.

AngeloPD
08-21-2012, 05:46 AM
JaMau, can you explain how my bowling is strenuous on my wrist? i would like to get better at bowling and reduce my wrist pain after couple of games

DanielMareina
08-21-2012, 11:08 AM
Ok, so without a better video or looking at your hand and ball drilling, here are some common reasons for wrist pain.

1: Ball is too heavy, or thumb hole is too big, so you have to clench your hand to not drop the ball.

2: Finger and thumb hole pitches are not far enough away. Old school pro shop drillers will still put an under-pitch to the fingers, and this can cause serious pain in the back of the hand and wrist for people who don't have very flexible fingers.

3: Over cupping of the wrist (not your problem) can cause for a lot of tension and force to be put on the wrist.

4: Not staying behind the ball can cause wrist pain too, but not nearly as often. If your wrist gets over the top of the ball at any point, it creates pressure on the wrist. This pain will usually manifest in the inside of your arm, instead of where your tendens and muscles are on the back of your wrist.

If I had to make an educated guess, I would look into the drilling angles first. I choose this, because you don't set the ball down in the same place twice in that entire video it seems. Some you drop early, some look real good, and some you are missing the bottom of the swing on. That can also be caused by the same thing. Just on a personal note, I used to have pain in the back of my hand and top of my wrist while bowling too. I wore a brace for awhile, but you don't want to wear a brace for good. It should be used to help heal, not as a crutch. The thing that relieved my pain was to stop using finger inserts. By drilling my fingers into the ball, it lowered the angle that the rest of my finger was at when I had my fingers in the hole.(not pitch of the hole). It really helped me, and now I have no wrist pain, and bowl better because I don't have to baby my wrist the whole time.

JaMau24
08-21-2012, 01:02 PM
JaMau, can you explain how my bowling is strenuous on my wrist? i would like to get better at bowling and reduce my wrist pain after couple of games

Daniel did a great job explaining what it could be, but like he said, without seeing a video, it's tough to tell you exactly why it is hurting.


EDIT: Sorry, just noticed you had a video on the first page of this thread... I'll check it out now.


EDIT2: Ok, well after watching the video, I can't see anything that would be making your wrist hurt. You look like a guy who could handle a heavy ball too. So, like Daniel said, maybe your squeezing the ball tight instead of just effortlessly throwing it. That could be because your thumb hole is too big, or it could be that your thumb hole is fine, and you're still squeezing it. If you aren't doing that, I would consider getting a wrist brace. It doesn't have to be a big expensive one.

AngeloPD
08-21-2012, 02:43 PM
I have a wrist brace that i used since i was a kid, but my problem is im griping my thumb throughout the swing. I ordered a shur-cushion from bowlingball.com and also i asked for Ron Clifton's Magic Carpet to sample.