Should I know my Pap?

[Keithalw]

Ok the local pro shop has never said anything to me bout PAP and until getting on here never really heard anything about it... is it important for me to know my PAP and shouldnt my local pro shop be able to tell me if I want to know it? Also what are the advantages of knowing PAP

[Ball99999]

Are you newer? If you're like me you probably have no way of having a consistent pap.

[striker12]

the pap i inportant but it takes a long time to get constiant the more constiant you are then your pap wont change but if u change jsut the slitest the ball wont do what u want it to do cause its a different pap.

[billf]

PAP is important because it's on the total opposite side of the PSA (positive spin axis). The PSA is the point of the ball that is closest to the lane and the ball spins around this axis. Obviously when you think about it, the distance of the heavy part of the weight block from the PSA is what helps determine the ball movement. Hence the spacing of the PAP from the CG (center of gravity) in relation to the MB (mass bias). By using the total opposite side of the PSA, the PAP, it can be seen while the ball travels down the lane.
My balls were all drilled assuming a PAP of 4 3/8" over and 3/8" up. Turns out it's further out than that. This makes all my balls longer than I had anticipated.
Each release can, but not always, cause the PAP to be slightly different. There are a few ways to check PAP but the most accurate in my opinion is using an Armadillo. A pro shop can place this on the ball track using the oil line and the end of the Armadillo has a notch that marks the spot of the PAP. I would have it checked now, write it down and checked periodically as your release consistency improves. Seeing the difference it makes will help you understand the ball reaction and expectations.

[bowl1820]

The P.A.P. is the "Positive Axis Point" the total opposite of this point is the N.A.P. "Negative Axis Point" and is not the PSA.

The PAP is the initial axis the ball rotates around when you first release the ball. It's main use is in laying out a ball, you can also determine your axis tilt and rotation by observing where it's at as the ball travels down the lane.

And your pro shop should be able to locate it for you.

The PSA is the "Preferred Spin Axis" and is what most people refer to as the MB the "Mass Bias"

Basically It's the final axis the ball is trying to achieve as it flares and rolls down the lane

[billf]

Wow. I meant preferred, not sure why I put positive. Your explaination between PSA and MB is different than was explained to me but does make more sense.

[Keithalw]

I am no where to consistent thats for sure. I have gotten better but am working on the consistency part. I will do what you said bill get it checked and check it every once n a while and see where its at... I thank all of you for all of your help thanks

[Tampabaybob]

Keith......If you want to find your PAP quickly and the easiest way to approximate it, try this. You can use a piece of white bowlers tape, just cut out a circle to use. Throw one ball, normal speed and rotation, and set the ball on a table. Find the oil ring(s) and try to get the one closet to your grip. Turn the ball so your oil rings are on the bottom of the ball using your thumb and index finger to evenly have the rings facing the table. You should be looking down on the ball and not be able to see the rings of oil. When you think you have them centered, stick your round piece of tape dead center on the top of the ball ( remember the tape will be on the "opposite side of the oil rings). Now go out and throw the ball again. The tape should show up on the left side of the ball and remain almost in the same spot without spinning. If it does spin adjust the tape and throw again until the spot spins in the same spot with very little movement. That spot will be your PAP. OR just go in to the proshop and ask the pro to do it for you. Try it it's easy.

Bob

[billf]

The tape only stays still during the skid phase. Bob is correct, it's easy to do. Easier than trying to explain it on here lol

[Keithalw]

Lol @bill Im sitting here trying to picture it all in my head lol and read your comment I mean I get what bob is saying just took me a few lol... Now when I throw normal my track seems to be right around my ring finger area near the finger tip... is this good or bad or just whatever lol? I know I have some many questions but I am trying to learn as much as I can about this wonderful sport

[billf]

Your oil track is by your ring finger? Unless I'm having another brain fart (very common lately), your track is on the wrong side of the ball.
Bowl1820, am I picturing this correctly?

[bowl1820]

Your oil track is by your ring finger? Unless I'm having another brain fart (very common lately), your track is on the wrong side of the ball.
Bowl1820, am I picturing this correctly?

The most likely thought I have here is someone throwing a full roller or they are almost a full roller and are tracking over the finger holes.

The fingers likely are moving clockwise at the moment of release, like when throwing a backup ball.

Or he meant the middle finger not the ring.

[Keithalw]

lol my bad bill I had a brain fart lol I meant middle finger as bowl1820 said ... Guess the blonde from the wife must be rubbing off on me lol...

[Tampabaybob]

Keith, yes it's one of those things that is much easier to do than put into words for an explanation. Once you do it it takes maybe 30 seconds ! Much quicker than to write out. When the tape appears to spin fairly consistent, then you've found your PAP. Glad you got it.

Bob

[billf]

lol my bad bill I had a brain fart lol I meant middle finger as bowl1820 said ... Guess the blonde from the wife must be rubbing off on me lol...

Glad I'm not the only one getting them lately. That track is good. It's a nice, high track. No problem with that.
My wife was blonde. Now her brain is blonde and her hair gets dyed (away with the gray)

[Keithalw]

I didnt know if that was a good track or not. I know that me now switching my landing foot that it may change and might even be a little more time before I am more consistent so yeah might be a little longer beofre I know lol... My wife used to dye hers all the time and her dad said thats whats wrong with her is the chemicals lol...