Fingers on release.

[GoodGorilla]

Last night I was bowling with my spareball because my wrist is a little to sore to throw hooks. I've been experimenting with different things with the ball because it is new. I'll get to the point: I had the most accuracy if I would use my two fingers as aiming mechanisms, especially after my thumb had exited the ball. I was wondering if this is related to hookballs. What angle and direction should these two fingers be while/after rotating the ball? After my thumb exits the ball what do I do with these two fingers? I always have payed the most attention to the wrist, but after my wrist is sore, it has given me the opportunity to study the fingers.

This pdf that says to go from 7-8 o' clock to 5-4.
bowlingballexchange.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3258&d...

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskiapr08.pdf

But do you jerk your fingers after your tumb exits? I normally would, upwards. Also to get 7-8 o' clock i picked up a ball and found out: That to get 7-8 o clock, I have to twist my wrist to maximum in the oppositie direction. It doesn't feel comfortable at all, I bet it's not supose to be confortable.

Looking down at my hand by myside, I noticed I can also achive a 7-8 o'clock a different way. I have to rotate my wirst in the direction of my fingers away from my thumb. From the videos, it looks like this way is the way it is supose to be done. I wonder which way is right.

[vgw]

I normally release with my fingers/hand going up. I am guessing that the follow-through that is at an angle would cause the ball to follow that path. If you pointed towards a point or the pins, the ball would go straight at it.

[Hot_pocket]

Yes the correct way is for your fingers to provide the lift and hook. The thumb is suppose to exit the ball as the fingers rotate it at the release point. now where the hand finishes varies

[billf]

As a right hander and rotating the wrist clockwise, it is slightly uncomfortable but there is also (for lack of a better term) a stop built-in as the wrist will only go so far. The back up ball drill will help with this http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_march_article_09.pdf

What you are describing is playing the inside part of the ball and not many amateurs bother to learn this tried and true method. Good luck.

[GoodGorilla]

As a right hander and rotating the wrist clockwise, it is slightly uncomfortable but there is also (for lack of a better term) a stop built-in as the wrist will only go so far. The back up ball drill will help with this http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_march_article_09.pdf

What you are describing is playing the inside part of the ball and not many amateurs bother to learn this tried and true method. Good luck.

I am excited to start doing this. I recently got back into bowling, but in the past I use to throw back up shots for fun. Infact before I got my newer balls I threw my spare shots like that. I'm having a little difficulty understanding when Joe says to rotate the elbow. I always did it at the release point, is he saying you need to rotate the elbow as it is comming down, and just keeping it there? I think that the pro bowlers that play the inside of the ball have their elbow on the inside on the way down. It seems like joe wants me to have the elbow tucked in in all the way down, and to just throw it like that.

[Tampabaybob]

I am excited to start doing this. I recently got back into bowling, but in the past I use to throw back up shots for fun. Infact before I got my newer balls I threw my spare shots like that. I'm having a little difficulty understanding when Joe says to rotate the elbow. I always did it at the release point, is he saying you need to rotate the elbow as it is comming down, and just keeping it there? I think that the pro bowlers that play the inside of the ball have their elbow on the inside on the way down. It seems like joe wants me to have the elbow tucked in in all the way down, and to just throw it like that.

With the new technology balls, newer cover stocks and cores, many of the top coaches are now teaching to use just your fingers/hand to achieve the best rotation of the ball. The old technique of "hitting" the ball at the line is kind of out the window, because what they are saying, is the newer balls actually gain rotation and roll by not hitting up on the ball at the point of release. Now with that said, the way it appears you are releasing the ball, using just your hand and fingers to rotate it, you should be able to get the most out of your ball.

As far as your elbow goes Joe is 100% correct. Your elbow needs to be inside on your downswing and as close in to your body as possible. I teach to "feel your arm brush (your side) down and back". The inside of your elbow should "always" be facing the pins.

Bob

[billf]

There are a few coaches I trust implicitly. Joe Slowinski, Ron Clifton, Fred Borden, Ron Hatfield, Jeri Edwards, Kristina Frahm and Kathryn Cox. The first two have a lot of good articles on their websites. The next three have a good website also. If you haven't heard of the other two yet, you will soon. They all have a way to convey what they mean in a way that's usually easy to grasp and adapt their teachings to the bowler while staying on the edge of what's new to our sport. They have a keen understanding of the physics of the game and the kinesiology of bowlers.

[GoodGorilla]

With the new technology balls, newer cover stocks and cores, many of the top coaches are now teaching to use just your fingers/hand to achieve the best rotation of the ball. The old technique of "hitting" the ball at the line is kind of out the window, because what they are saying, is the newer balls actually gain rotation and roll by not hitting up on the ball at the point of release. Now with that said, the way it appears you are releasing the ball, using just your hand and fingers to rotate it, you should be able to get the most out of your ball.

As far as your elbow goes Joe is 100% correct. Your elbow needs to be inside on your downswing and as close in to your body as possible. I teach to "feel your arm brush (your side) down and back". The inside of your elbow should "always" be facing the pins.

Bob

A few questions: You have to keep your elebow in at all times for the drill right? The pro bowlers I watch rotate their elbow the opposite way on release, and do that funky side angle of the wrist to get that 7-8 oclock ball angle. How does cupping come in to this?

[Tampabaybob]

A few questions: You have to keep your elebow in at all times for the drill right? The pro bowlers I watch rotate their elbow the opposite way on release, and do that funky side angle of the wrist to get that 7-8 oclock ball angle. How does cupping come in to this?

OK, lets go back to basics for a second. You want your arm to swing as straight and as naturally possible, right? So in order to help do this the inside of your elbow would be always facing the pins. Once you can master having your arm swing as straight as possible now work on your hand position and release. At for a starting point, look down at your hand and make sure your thumb is at least in the 1:00 position. You'll hold that position all the way thru your swing until your thumb "starts" to exit the ball. This is going to give you a good semi roller type of roll. Now lets take it a step further....with your thumb at 1:00 turn your wrist inward (toward your left side). This action, if you can hold it throughout your swing is going to change your roll axis on the ball. You should see your track move further away from the thumb and finger holes with this position. Remember you need to hold this all the way thru your swing until the thumb just starts coming out, then rotate the ball with your wrist and fingers.

Now one step further....with your hand tilted in...and your thumb at 1:00...now cup your wrist (wrist to be bent back towards your torso). Again the important factor here is the last, split second of your release, is where your hand comes uncupped and your wrist and fingers do the work. This also should show you a bit of a different reaction of the ball and possibly a little bit better carry on the pins, IF DONE CORRECTLY. Practice all three as different lane conditions may warrant changing these at different times to get the reaction you want. Not the easiest thing to accomplish and be consistent with, but if you have these concepts in your bag of tricks you'll probably be a few steps ahead of your competition.

Try it out and let me know how you do. (and one other thing that may help... if you tuck your pinky finger under you may add a few more revs to the ball !)

Bob

[billf]

A few questions: You have to keep your elebow in at all times for the drill right? The pro bowlers I watch rotate their elbow the opposite way on release, and do that funky side angle of the wrist to get that 7-8 oclock ball angle. How does cupping come in to this?
For the drill yes. The purpose of the drill is to get the bowler use to having their elbow facing that way. Most times the front of the elbow normally faces more towards the body, like when we walk. So having it face towards the target will feel unnatural at first. Your elbow WILL rotate without you realizing it while bowling.

[GoodGorilla]

I did the drill yesterday. Releasing the ball at that hand angle threw off my accuracy. I have a video of the drill that I will upload sometime. I got to figure out how to transfer the video from my camera and post it here. I don't know how to do any of that stuff. Today I bowled using the tucked in elbow and rotating the elbow and wrist for the hooks. I got 2 games over 200, and a few 170s. I wasn't cupping the ball like I normally would because I am not use to the new release. It takes alot longer to rotate the elbow around on release, so I havn't started cupping, pulling on the fingers, or turning the ball to 7-8 oclock (That I can tell). I can tell the axis of rotation was changed, the ball moves slower because I'm not pulling on the ball, and the entry to the pocket has a much nicer angle. I've had some strikes that wouldn't have been otherwise because of the way the ball is reacting now.

[Tampabaybob]

Sounds like you were successful in seeing what the changes will do for you and that's great. Now, practice will be the key to hold a position that will be comfortable for you throughout a 3 game series. Again, when making a change like this, it will always fell uncomfortable at first but if you are seeing results that helps make the uncomfortable feeling go away faster. Glad to see it worked, keep up the practice and let us know how you're doing.

By the way, with the games you threw, the scores look good what have you been averaging prior to changing?

Bob

[GoodGorilla]

I think it's a little to soon to tell. I have had days like that prior to the change. However, the pin action looks superior. My concern right now is the ball speed dropping from 16.5 to 13.5, it seems strange and I will probably experiment throwing it harder. Also after a few weeks of practice I'll try doing that other stuff like cupping etc. I need to get some more video uploaded so I can work on some technique.

[Tampabaybob]

I think it's a little to soon to tell. I have had days like that prior to the change. However, the pin action looks superior. My concern right now is the ball speed dropping from 16.5 to 13.5, it seems strange and I will probably experiment throwing it harder. Also after a few weeks of practice I'll try doing that other stuff like cupping etc. I need to get some more video uploaded so I can work on some technique.

The new rule of thumb, is, if you want to increase your ball speed, lower the ball in your stance about 6 inches. It used to be where we would have bowlers raise their ball higher, but it's now been proven that lowering it will better increase it. A good speed to try to maintain would be in the 15.5 to 16.5 range. What that does, is it gives the pins more time on the pin deck (split seconds) to mix. A person throwing 17 - 19 mph will leave lots of corner pins because the pins will jump over the corners. Unless you have an extremely high rev rate a higher speed actually can work against you. Keep working on it and it'll come around. Glad you see the difference.

Bob

[btaylor]

I hope I am not highjacking this thread from Good Gorilla, but I caught a couple things in his observations that I am questioning plus I have a question about improving my release. Hopefully this will assist GoodGorilla too:

"The pro bowlers I watch rotate their elbow the opposite way on release, and do that funky side angle of the wrist to get that 7-8 oclock ball angle."
"Today I bowled using the tucked in elbow and rotating the elbow and wrist for the hooks."

This sounds like he is chicken winging, turn the ball with the elbow, which has been my problem for years. Shouldn't the observation be that the inside of the elbow is always pointing forward and the rotation is done with the wrist and hand, not the elbow?

In working on improving my release, I have finally gotten to do many sessions of Joe's backup drill where I am comfortable with the elbow forward and reaching with the follow through. But I run into problems when I try to uncup the wrist at the release point. I either accomplish a straight ball or seeing my hand (appears to) overturn.

Can you suggest any other drill or practice that will improve that stage of the release?

Thanks... Bob

[Ball99999]

My strategy so far has been to keep my hand on the left side of the ball for hook and to naturally pull it up through the follow through. Seems to maybe help me.

[Tampabaybob]

I hope I am not highjacking this thread from Good Gorilla, but I caught a couple things in his observations that I am questioning plus I have a question about improving my release. Hopefully this will assist GoodGorilla too:

"The pro bowlers I watch rotate their elbow the opposite way on release, and do that funky side angle of the wrist to get that 7-8 oclock ball angle."
"Today I bowled using the tucked in elbow and rotating the elbow and wrist for the hooks."

This sounds like he is chicken winging, turn the ball with the elbow, which has been my problem for years. Shouldn't the observation be that the inside of the elbow is always pointing forward and the rotation is done with the wrist and hand, not the elbow?

In working on improving my release, I have finally gotten to do many sessions of Joe's backup drill where I am comfortable with the elbow forward and reaching with the follow through. But I run into problems when I try to uncup the wrist at the release point. I either accomplish a straight ball or seeing my hand (appears to) overturn.

Can you suggest any other drill or practice that will improve that stage of the release?

Thanks... Bob


Bob......Chicken winging with your arm is a very difficult habit to break. As I told 'GoodGorilla' the best and probably the easiest way, to get away from doing that is to concentrate on "feeling" the inside of your elbow staying facing the pins. I teach, or try to teach, everyone to brush the inside of your arm against your side on the down swing and back again. So it's brush down and brush back. That's a drill that will "help" maintain keeping the inside of your elbow facing the correct direction.

As far as uncupping your wrist, try kneeling at the line (during a practice session !) and swing the ball, watching your hand come thru the delivery. This is so you can see it as well as feel it. Keep your thumb at 1:00 all the way thru your back swing (with you fingers under the ball) and as the ball is passing your slide leg start to uncup your wrist. Your thumb should start releasing the ball also at that point and "THATS" when your wrist and fingers do the work. Uncupping at the point of release is a split second (probably more like a micro second) move that takes many, many games of practice. But you have to feel it, and feel it correctly. Once you feel it and can feel the way the ball is coming off of your hand then you're half way there. Then take your regular approach and try it. Don't hesitate to do the kneeling thing again if it doesn't come off your hand right. If you or a friend has a video camera, have them take a video of you at the line kneeling and then during your normal approach. It helps immensely to be able to "see" what you're doing. It's very hard to fix something you can't see. Most dvd players now, or pc's, will give you a slo-mo function so you can see it almost frame by frame. Here's a video that may help you see exacty haw the pros do it. Let me know how you're doing with the practice and changing the swing..........Bob


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N5nnDbV0znE

[btaylor]

Bob and Ball9999... thanks for the feedback.

Bob, you have it spot on with that habit being the worst to break. I have videos of when I thought it was good and the turn was still there... argh.

I did a lot of foul line drills, 1 step and 5 step drills last summer to raise my slumping average from 167 to 194 book last winter. This year I want to raise my average another 15 or more pins; just another closed frame!

So the release has been my concentration as well as good release timing. So your suggestions (both of you) are added to the practice sessions.

I have downloaded the analysis video in the past and looked it over and over; great stuff but very hard to emulate, they're pros. Another good video (IMHO) is the Brian Voss seminar. He opened my eyes on the release at the 31 min mark.

I shoot practice sessions 5 days a week which will include 2 league days. I practice all my drills as well as corner pins. No scoring, just practice. Shot 620 in my early start league last night with a miserable 168 middle game where I was too stuborn to make the adjustment as my line broke down. This was all with the modified straight relase. So I am confident I have a B game as I work on my A game.

thanks again... Bob

[Fatal]

Video was really helpful. Any other ones?

[btaylor]

These are pretty good. Last couple have parts in the first "analysis" video:
Brian Voss Seminar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZadcWDLD8NU
SloMo 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00q9veGknzg
SloMo 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIyiDCcbhs4

[Tampabaybob]

Fatal........the other two videos that btaylor put up are excellent examples of releases in slo mo. Now understand we all may never achieve the perfect rotation that Rash, or some of the other guys on tour can do, but it's an excellent view of the right way to get your ball to rotate more for better carry. What they don't show is if your lanes dry out, you will usually need to back off some from the hand position and come straighter up behind the ball. First move in to the oil a little more then if they really get burned up change your hand position, maybe just a 1/2 inch will make a difference.

Bob

[Fatal]

I was getting the wrist motion down but the rotation of the fingers after the thumb is released is just not working how I would like.

[billf]

Bob, I bowled my scratch league last night, first night of the season. With ten decent bowlers on each set of lanes I started playing the inside part of the ball with a ton of revs. I moved left often to the end of that ball's comfort zone. Then I moved back right and just used half to a quarter of the revs preciously until I finally balled down. My captain said afterward that I gave all the guys a clinic on rev and speed control. Given he is a regional pro I took that as a good compliment (I was also excited that my series was higher than his).

[Ball99999]

Same here I have trouble. I get how to throw a spiral football, and I get the idea is that you are rolling it in a 90 degree direction of the way you are throwing it but rolling your fingers.. but it's incredibly hard to do with a heavy big ball with your fingers stuck in the thing. Also I don't get what people mean by rotate your fingers a couple inches.

I can do it if I don't have a thumb in though I think.

[billf]

Also I don't get what people mean by rotate your fingers a couple inches.

Don't rotate the arm, elbow or wrist. Just your middle and ring fingers in a counter-clockwise direction. Hold your hand out and slightly cupped. Your middle finger should be at the 6:00 position. Now rotate your fingers in a small circle (just the two fingers). Your wrist will NATURALLY rotate slightly. That is the correct rotation but you won't see many bowlers do it correctly. They try but most rotate the wrist instead.

[Tampabaybob]

Bill, I know what you're talking about, last nit during the second game our lanes broke down something fierce. I started going straight up behind my go to ball and finished ok.

It's another trick, guys need to learn to have in their bag of tricks and know when to use them.

Bob

[GoodGorilla]

Yeah so I have experimented alot wiht playing inside of the ball. The benefits of me doing it are increasing my revs, and having a better axis of rotation on the ball. The two major problems with me doing it is my accuracty decreases, and my ball speed decreases. I have increased my speed to compensate, but that further decreased my accuracy. After experimenting with playing the inside so much, it almost made me forget how to throw it the old way. After a week or so, I got my old style back which seems to be better. For kicks I would mix the two styles up in some games just to compare how they feel, and it I'm sure it feels the way I described it above. Mabey going off topic now, but the best way I have been throwing it is when I try to keep my feet slow, my arm swing strait and free, with a soft hand on release. I'm not sure if I should continue experimenting with the inside.

[billf]

I've been staring at this screen for awhile, perplexed. You are the first person to be less accurate playing the inside part that I have heard of. Are you right eye dominant? If not, that may be playing a part. I still play both ways during games. I go with whatever works. The lower ball speed has me stumped with no real thoughts on how or why. Sorry it didn't work better for you.

[GoodGorilla]

The decreased accuracy I think is from having to complete an additional action before releasing the ball. Within that action my timing is harder to maintain, which timing is part of accuracy. When hand's starting position is rotated further away from my body, it has a longer distance to travel before releasing the ball which increases the revs but makes it harder to reproduce the same effect. I don't have a good idea why it decreases my speed, my guess is my arm has some friction from my muscles being flexed for keeping my hand pointed away from my body.

[GoodGorilla]

It won't let me edit my post. My hand is't pointed away from my body, it is rotated away from my body. thumb around 2 oclock.

[J Anderson]

The decreased accuracy I think is from having to complete an additional action before releasing the ball. Within that action my timing is harder to maintain, which timing is part of accuracy. When hand's starting position is rotated further away from my body, it has a longer distance to travel before releasing the ball which increases the revs but makes it harder to reproduce the same effect. I don't have a good idea why it decreases my speed, my guess is my arm has some friction from my muscles being flexed for keeping my hand pointed away from my body.

You've said that you get more revs and better axis rotation playing the inside of the ball, I would think that this would give you more hook. Since most alleys measure ball speed by how long it takes to get to the pins, and with more hook your ball is taking a longer path, it may be that your true speed is still about the same.

[GoodGorilla]

It gave me alot more hook, but when you play on a lane you don't know how the oil broke down it gets real tricky. Having increased revs will make the ball behave alot more chaotically when you can't figure out a lane condition. As for the speed, mabey the ball speed indicator where I play at only measures the speed from the starting point to the end point, when infact the ball having a steeper angle to the pocket is traveling from point a to b at a slower pace but is actually traveling faster because it is taking a longer path. My accuracy is not as good because I have to rotate my hand just to get it at the starting position for the release, which I am not perfectly confortable with yet. Playing the inside seems like an advanced technique.

[GoodGorilla]

Don 't click that advanced technique link. I don't know why it was made into a link. I didn't do it.

[Tampabaybob]

It gave me alot more hook, but when you play on a lane you don't know how the oil broke down it gets real tricky. Having increased revs will make the ball behave alot more chaotically when you can't figure out a lane condition. As for the speed, mabey the ball speed indicator where I play at only measures the speed from the starting point to the end point, when infact the ball having a steeper angle to the pocket is traveling from point a to b at a slower pace but is actually traveling faster because it is taking a longer path. My accuracy is not as good because I have to rotate my hand just to get it at the starting position for the release, which I am not perfectly confortable with yet. Playing the inside seems like an advanced technique.

If you're on lanes where the camera is a few feet in front of the masking unit, then the camera is picking up the sped at that point only. If it's registering 17 mph at that point then the ball coming off of your hand is probably 18 - 19 mph. Your ball loses speed as it goes down the lane and encounters friction.

Playing inside is advanced and you have to be more accurate than shooting say up5 - 10 board. When your hot and on target you'll get more carry, but if you're floating the ball out everywhere and not being consistent, then you're in for a tough night. I shoot against a lot of inside players that crank the ball and have probably twice the rotation I do, when they're hot they'll kill you and when they're not they're an easy target.

It sounds like you're making good progress on changing, so keep up the good work. However, always be prepared to vary the shot, change your hand position, or ball when necessary. Good luck.

Bob

[billf]

Bob, have you ever seen anyone consistently play the inside part of the ball straight up the 5 board? For kicks the 1-3 work well to cause jaws to drop in disbelief.

[GoodGorilla]

I shoot against a lot of inside players that crank the ball and have probably twice the rotation I do, when they're hot they'll kill you and when they're not they're an easy target.

Bob

That was my general experience with playing the inside. If I was able to do it consistantly, it was better. But problem is the lane has to be just right. I have a weird work schedule that prevents me from playing league, if I can play league I won't have to guess as much as to how the lane condition is. I normally play at random times of the day.

[GoodGorilla]

I bowled 4 games to day with purly stroker technique, getting over 800 points.

[GoodGorilla]

I just read in a book called Bowling Execution, for a stroker atleast, should never rotate ther thumb past the 12 o clok position for release. It says to Have your thumb start around 2 oclock and rotate to 12. I've been starting at 12 and ending at 10, the book claims I am losing power this way. How do you guys do your thumb position in the swing?

[Davec13]

I just grabbed my ball and It seems like my thumb is around the 4oclock position and end at around the 12 oclock position.

[J Anderson]

I just read in a book called Bowling Execution, for a stroker atleast, should never rotate ther thumb past the 12 o clok position for release. It says to Have your thumb start around 2 oclock and rotate to 12. I've been starting at 12 and ending at 10, the book claims I am losing power this way. How do you guys do your thumb position in the swing?

What I try to do is start with my hand in the position that I want to release the ball. As I drop the ball into the swing, I rotate my wrist to be parallel with my elbow and keep it there until the start of the release. I would guess that puts the thumb between 2 and 3 o'clock.

[GoodGorilla]

After using a cup the past few weeks, an observer told me that I am cocking my wrist now. I wasn't aware of it, but I am aware that my ball has got more hook that it did in the past, and I can hook the ball even more when I have to. I am having a harder time hooking less than more now.

[75lockwood]

if you want to lower hook you can do a few things:

speed up the ball (relative speed to rev ratio will cause less hook)
uncup your wrist so that it is straight (for even less hook let the break down)
uncock (if you don't know your doing it this might be moot)
change your axis rotation (i'm not the best at explaining this one)lol

[GoodGorilla]

if you want to lower hook you can do a few things:

speed up the ball (relative speed to rev ratio will cause less hook)
uncup your wrist so that it is straight (for even less hook let the break down)
uncock (if you don't know your doing it this might be moot)
change your axis rotation (i'm not the best at explaining this one)lol

I did good last night throwing less hook. Like you said, I just made an effort to not cup my wrist so much. I think in the future, I should start with less cup if I am playing drier lanes, and start with more playing oily lanes.

[Tampabaybob]

After using a cup the past few weeks, an observer told me that I am cocking my wrist now. I wasn't aware of it, but I am aware that my ball has got more hook that it did in the past, and I can hook the ball even more when I have to. I am having a harder time hooking less than more now.

Think of your wrist as having 3 or 4 notches. If you wanted to throw a straight ball your thumb would be at 0 degrees (straight). Notch 1 your fingers would move left under the ball pointing toward the 11:00 o'clock position. That would be notch one. Notch 2 move your fingers to 10:00 o'clock and notch 3 is at 9:00 o'clock. Being able to cock your wrist in these 4 positions gives you an immense advantage to be able to change your roll depending upon the oil conditions. If it's really dry you can be at 0 or notch 1 for less hook. Make sense? Hope so. Try it you'll see the difference.

Bob

[billf]

Now, what Bob explained will change the roll of the ball by affecting the side roll or axis rotation. Your revs will not change as long as your fingers come out the same. Some bowlers find it easier to get more revs with less rotation. That's fine as the purpose of the rev is to increase skid and push. This offsets the friction created by a dry(er) mid-lane and helps retain energy for the hook phase.
Example: it's easier to speed up a straight ball. All the momentum and angles go in the same direction. That ball still has revs. The axis rotation is zero or close to it but it still revs up. Most crankers the ball rotates counter-clockwise (right-hander) while traveling at an angle that is usually 90 degrees to this rotation. The oil helps but most crankers use high revs to get the long skid and when the ball hits the friction (break point) the ball grabs and turns hard to the direction of rotation.

So class, was the lesson on the difference and purpose of revs and axis rotation explained in a way that everyone understands it? Seriously. This is an area that stumps many people and yes, somehow even some coaches.

[GoodGorilla]

Think of your wrist as having 3 or 4 notches. If you wanted to throw a straight ball your thumb would be at 0 degrees (straight). Notch 1 your fingers would move left under the ball pointing toward the 11:00 o'clock position. That would be notch one. Notch 2 move your fingers to 10:00 o'clock and notch 3 is at 9:00 o'clock. Being able to cock your wrist in these 4 positions gives you an immense advantage to be able to change your roll depending upon the oil conditions. If it's really dry you can be at 0 or notch 1 for less hook. Make sense? Hope so. Try it you'll see the difference.

Bob

I was just looking at my hand while moving it around these different positions. I seems like I am either doing either extreme when I am bowling, and have been making feet adjustments to each. I think to myself, I either need alot of hook, or not very much. I also was trying to maintain the different cocking positions while increasing and decreasing the cup. It seems if I change the amount of cup, it also changes the amount of cocking. I am still confused as to how the change in axis rotation changes the ball path. I'm guessing that the change in axis rotation changes the actual hook direction. More axis gives a tighter hook pattern? Like when the ball is rotating in a specific direction, it will grip and travel in that direction down lane. The direction is determined by the cocking?

[J Anderson]

I was just looking at my hand while moving it around these different positions. I seems like I am either doing either extreme when I am bowling, and have been making feet adjustments to each. I think to myself, I either need alot of hook, or not very much. I also was trying to maintain the different cocking positions while increasing and decreasing the cup. It seems if I change the amount of cup, it also changes the amount of cocking. I am still confused as to how the change in axis rotation changes the ball path. I'm guessing that the change in axis rotation changes the actual hook direction. More axis gives a tighter hook pattern? Like when the ball is rotating in a specific direction, it will grip and travel in that direction down lane. The direction is determined by the cocking?

I don't pretend to understand the physics involved in modern bowling balls. The basic reason that a bowling ball hooks is that axis of rotation is not perpendicular to the the lane. The ball will slide through the oily section of the lane in a straight line. As the ball leaves the oil and gains traction it will transition from its initial direction to one perpendicular to the axis of rotation, the hook phase. After this transition the ball will just roll in this new direction. We often don't see this clearly as it should happen as the ball hits the pins. The simple way to put it is the more axis rotation the more the direction changes. The composition and texture of the coverstock will have a large effect on the shape of the hook as will the design of the ball's core.
If I understand thing correctly the axis rotation is determined by the position of the fingers and thumb at release, not necessarily the amount of wrist cock.

[Tampabaybob]

John.....well put. Very good explanation on the transition the ball will make.

Gorilla..... Changing one's hand position, cocking, and the ability to use different positions, will indeed change not only the axis roll but the amount of hook you should get on the ball. Understand though, this assumes that the ball is thrown exactly the same speed and you're rotating the wrist and fingers exactly the same amount. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this isn't an exercise that a person just get's up there and does automatically. There has to be fore thought as to how you should be playing a particular pattern and how you want the ball to react. It takes a lot of practice not only to be able to accurately hold the hand in a particular position throughout the swing plane, but also knowing when to use these hand positions to gain results.
You are on the right track, try not to over think what's going on at the time. Try one hand position one game or two and then try another. Note the differences in roll, hook, breakpoint, carry, etc, and remember these reactions. If you cup and uncap as well note the differences. Remember the pros bowl lots of games every week and in many cases have a coach or another pro watching and helping them out. Years and years of practice, thousands upon thousands of games, and I still have my aw-shxt moments and wish I could take back certain shots. It's why I laugh when people think bowling is an easy game.

Bob

[AZBowla]

It's why I laugh when people think bowling is an easy game.

Like any good game, it's an easy game to play and a damn difficult one to master. It sure is addictive and fun though. I'd go every day if I could. :)

[75lockwood]

Like any good game, it's an easy game to play and a damn difficult one to master. It sure is addictive and fun though. I'd go every day if I could. :)

nobody has been abile to truely master bowling, there are just way to many variables that can cause failure. a 300 average would be nice though :cool:

[Tampabaybob]

Not sure what the highest average for a season ever has been, I've see one above 250, but I wouldn't doubt it's much higher now. Anything above 240 is unfathomable !!

Any takers on what the record is ? And I'm meaning a full season.

Bob

[Brother_jd]

Not sure what the highest average for a season ever has been, I've see one above 250, but I wouldn't doubt it's much higher now. Anything above 240 is unfathomable !!

Any takers on what the record is ? And I'm meaning a full season.

Bob

This is from Mike Scroggins wiki page so take it for what it is worth.

He also currently holds the second-highest league average ever recorded in USBC history—256.8 in a 1999-2000 Amarillo, TX trio league. It was the highest league average until Jeff Carter established a new record the following season with a 261.7 average.

[Brother_jd]

Not sure what the highest average for a season ever has been, I've see one above 250, but I wouldn't doubt it's much higher now. Anything above 240 is unfathomable !!

Any takers on what the record is ? And I'm meaning a full season.

Bob

Sorry for double post. Found this on bowl.com.

261.7 Jeff Carter, Springfield, Ill., five-player league, 2000-01
259.1 Patrick Partilla, Wilkes Barre, Pa., five-player league, 2010-11
256.8 Mike Scroggins, Amarillo, Texas, three-player league, 1999-2000
255.7 Don Griffin, St. Louis, five-player league, 2010-11
254.0 Ian Lang, Levittown, N.Y., four-player league, 2007-08
254.0 Allan Rice, Salem, Ala., three-player league, 2011-12

Holy high averages batman.

[Tampabaybob]

Holy high averages is right !! Can't imaging needing 750 plus each night just to maintain my average. Sure don't want to run into those guys in a tournament.

Bob

[LonelyBowler]

Everytime I watch Pete Weber bowl it looks like he is just turning his hand and that's it, no lift at all.

[Tampabaybob]

Yeah, Pete has one of the smoothest releases in the game. It looks as though he's doing nothing to the ball, but man, what a reaction he gets. He uses a "swoosh" type of release. (reads NIKE swoosh) Never used to enjoy watching him, because of his on-lane antics, but in the last few years, he's gained a lot of respect. I guess having shot against his Dad, Dick Weber, in a PBA tournament years ago, makes me feel like he would never measure up. But he has, and for that I'm happy for him.

Bob

[GoodGorilla]

You guys have said this before, but this slowinski video makes me want to evaluate my current release. I never pay attention to my index finger like he says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr9lDk848-g

[Tampabaybob]

Maybe you don't, but look at the last few seconds of that video and notice where his indue finger is and in what direction it's pointing !

Bob

[GoodGorilla]

He's over rotating. But I think he is teaching new people. Your not suppose to rotate past 12 O clock, which I still am doing after reading about how brain voss and norm duke rotate past 12. Currently I am rotating my hand to a 45 degree angle tilt which is between 10 and 11 o clock.

[GoodGorilla]

I can't wait to get to the lanes this weekend, I am gonna get my ball out of my bag now and try that.

[GoodGorilla]

Uh, yeah. I've been rotating my hand on the downswing to get inside. No wonder my index finger has been so sore lately.

[GoodGorilla]

oddly, it seems much easier to cock the wrist while moving than standing still.