My Story - What to do

[Demoman]

Ok here is the situation - I throw a backup ball and before anyone leaves the thread or tells me I will never get where I want to be by doing so let me explain that it's due to a injury. I used to throw the ball with a right handed hook ten years ago with good success averaging 200+ in semi competitive leagues. 5 years ago I shattered my right hand between the thumb and middle finger where I have multiple screws and pins now holding it together. I quit bowling for 3 years and went back to the lanes socially at first trying left handed and ultimately going to a backup ball. It has now been 2 years of backup bowling of which I'm averaging around 180 in my leagues and have a few 275 games and a few more 250+ games. Believe me when I tell you that I can always feel the eyes behind me and hear the whispers of my unorthodox style until those individuals here my story, speak to me, look at my scar etc etc. It shouldn't be hard to understand that it's not easy for me to find coaching or ways to improve my game because of how I throw the ball. If anyone can point me to any valuable info that I can study or any suggestions on where to stand, my approach, left handed bowling tips I would greatly appreciate it. My biggest problem is the 7 pin and it hurts my game. I'm standing all the way to the right and spinning the ball torwards the left gutter and hitting it 50%.

[Zothen]

Have you tried taking your ring finger out and try throwing the ball like a house ball?

Zothen

[75lockwood]

When Making spares, throwing a straight ball is a lot more constant, Start far right, move your target in line with the 7 pin, spread you pinky and index fingers and roll the ball without any spin, a good way to practice this is to practice hitting 7's for your first shot in practice then throw your strike ball for the second shot.

Good Luck!

[GeorgiaStroker]

Assuming your injury prevents your throwing the ball straight like the previous ideas, have you tried using a plastic ball for those left side spares? That should take the movement out of the ball regardless of the spin you put on it.

[75lockwood]

What i got from your post is that you injured your right hand, you are now bowling backup with your left hand (left hand hooking right to left), could you please confirm?

[Tampabaybob]

What i got from your post is that you injured your right hand, you are now bowling backup with your left hand (left hand hooking right to left), could you please confirm?

I think he's throwing it with his right hand, just using the left side.

[Demoman]

Hi thanks for the fast replies without any anti backup comments. I have not been treated well in the past asking for info on backup bowling and it refrains me from doing so. Anyways I throw a right handed backup ball meaning with my right hand I'm hooking the ball backwards from normal coming in from the left side of the pocket like a left hander. I can't support the ball to throw a straight ball or or normal hook however I have built the otherwise of my hand up enough to get a real nice backwards hook. I have not tried a plastic ball for those spares and I will give that a shot. I'm also looking for any info on bowling this way - has there been anyone successful I can watch and learn from? Should I essentially be watching left handed bowlers and mimic their approach?

[75lockwood]

I found these videos you could take a look at...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdzlHNp3zss&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17j_2e_BECM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixcUiusa6Lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1jpkxzFHNA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiupzU-qOgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSylfoANA9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDGMcndqbXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TUaeMzDMuA&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Looks like your not alone :)

[Tampabaybob]

Ok here is the situation - I throw a backup ball and before anyone leaves the thread or tells me I will never get where I want to be by doing so let me explain that it's due to a injury. I used to throw the ball with a right handed hook ten years ago with good success averaging 200+ in semi competitive leagues. 5 years ago I shattered my right hand between the thumb and middle finger where I have multiple screws and pins now holding it together. I quit bowling for 3 years and went back to the lanes socially at first trying left handed and ultimately going to a backup ball. It has now been 2 years of backup bowling of which I'm averaging around 180 in my leagues and have a few 275 games and a few more 250+ games. Believe me when I tell you that I can always feel the eyes behind me and hear the whispers of my unorthodox style until those individuals here my story, speak to me, look at my scar etc etc. It shouldn't be hard to understand that it's not easy for me to find coaching or ways to improve my game because of how I throw the ball. If anyone can point me to any valuable info that I can study or any suggestions on where to stand, my approach, left handed bowling tips I would greatly appreciate it. My biggest problem is the 7 pin and it hurts my game. I'm standing all the way to the right and spinning the ball torwards the left gutter and hitting it 50%.

First off don't be intimidated by the nay sayers. If you were averaging over deuce before it'll just be a matter of time when you get back to that average.

As far as what you're doing, I'll assume that you're shooting from the left side of the approach and targeting somewhere around the second arrow. It would be good to know what type of equipment you're using and how aggressive it is. If you're bowling on a "typical house shot" (THS) then you're probably on a 38 to 42 foot christmas tree pattern. With that said, if you're leaving too many 7 pins, there are several adjustments that you can try. First, some guys will move back 6" on the approach (which will get the ball down a little sooner). The other thing to try to get rid of them is to move your target a little closer to you. Again, that'll get the ball rolling a bit sooner. If the ball comes in on the nose move 2-3 boards to the right and shoot the same spot.

I used to bowl in NEBA (New England Bowlers Association) tournaments up North and there was one guy that threw a back-up ball. He almost always cashed in every tournament and was not the type of bowler I'd want to shoot against in the finals...he was tough!

You'll probably get several responses from this blog, so try them, and if they work, fine. If they don't go on to something else. Good Luck and keep us up dated.

Bob

[Demoman]

75 lock thanks for the videos - I had seem them all besides the first Asian bowler. I'm glad I seen him because we have a identical first approach with the exception of his back and fourth ball swing mid approach. The majority of the rest of the videos are people just screwing around and I still have yet to see a video or in person a backup 7pin spare. Tampa thanks for the positive words - I'm not going to give up but it does get old knowing everyone is staring and talking about your game. For equipment I was using a hammer black widow sting and storm vivid. I recently bought a Brunswick nexus p/r however after 6 games it cracked so the pro shop I bought it from credited me for a hammer purple taboo i get tomorrow which is what I originally wanted. I am bowling ths and will try some of the approach adjustments you recommended. If you want a close idea of how I throw the ball it's very similar to the first video posted above.

[MisterSinister]

First, don't let anyone tell you that your doing anything wrong. You bowl how you want, or however you need too. Everyone who hates can go you know where. I don't use my thumb, so I get those odd looks, and comments as well. I tell them all the same thing, you bowl your way and I'll bowl mine. This isn't ice skating, or gymnastics where your judged on your style. In the end, only the scores matter. Second, I used to know a guy who threw a backup ball. He was pretty good, but like you he struggled with the 7 pin. If you have not tried a plastic ball, do it. I hook the ball a lot, and the only way I can pick up the 10 pin is with plastic. My plastic ball is also lighter, allowing me to throw it a little faster, giving it less time to hook.

[Tampabaybob]

So then I'll assume you are shooting predominately down around the first arrow right? That should give you quite a strong back end from deep outside. When I'm playing that shot on the right hand side I know I leave a lot more ten pins. That's when I move more towards second arrow or twelve board and that usually helps.

One of the previous comments about a plastic ball was right on the money, and I notice you didn't mention that you have one. I bought a $20 plastic Roto Grip world ball last year, polished the heck out of it and only use it for my ten pin and six pin. Damn thing wouldn't hook if I was throng it in the parking lot ! But that's what you want, something that won't hook no matter how much rotation you put on it. See if your local pro shop has any used ones and just have them re-drill it. Cheap and effective. Then all you need is to work on your accuracy.

Bob

[Davec13]

Don't worry about what people say. If they are mad cause you are out bowling them so be it. I have thrown a back up ball for 10 pins in the past but never tried an entire game like that, so I can't offer any advice on that. Someone mentioned moving back 6" if you are leaving a 7 pin and that would be the only thing I could advise you on. Just like leaving a 10 you move back half a step and change the angle enough to carry the 10 or in your case 7 pin.

[Demoman]

Thanks guys for the honest and positive feedback! I think I finally found a home here without know it all jerks trying to kill my spirit. I almost never returned to this game because of this injury and I bowl because I love it and mister s your right screw what people say. Tampa yes I play around the one and move in depending on conditions. No I don't have nor tried a plastic ball for spares and I'm certainly going to pick one up and try it as well as all of the approach feedback you guys have shared. Seriously a big thank you to everyone who has replied and understood or tried to understand my situation - you people are top notch and I will certainly keep you all posted. I have thrown a few 700 series in practice this way so I know it can be done and I will get it consistent! Thanks again

[billf]

Screw those who want to snicker and make an issue out of something that's none of their business. Giving the line, revs and rotation of the Asian gentleman in the video, I would suggest watching videos of Parker Bohn III. His style comes to mind first as the left hander who would match up the closest. As for the 7 pin I will have to pay more attention next week. We have a left hander with that style that hooks at the 7 pin on the rare occasion he leaves it. Given he averages over 240 I'm sure it's a good line to use. If I see him before then I will ask. He is a real nice guy so I know he will share the knowledge.

[Greenday]

I finally figured out what I need to do in order to make my cross lane shots (I'm a righty btw). For my ten pin, I stand on the 29 board and aim for the third arrow. I hit it dead on every time. For the six pin, I move to the 26 board and hit the third arrow. Since I started doing this two weeks ago, I haven't missed it once. My ball goes straight and nails it. Haven't experienced super dry conditions since doing this though so I don't know how it'll do if my spare ball hooks. But if you can throw a straight ball, I'd try to figure it out like that.

[Demoman]

Just so I'm clear should I move back a half step on my initial approach or try to finish 6" from the line? Or both? Thanks billf I need to start watching more lefties in my league as well - I'm usually to focused on my own game I need to learn to watch others. Green day I'm glad you got your spare down! I can't throw a straight ball but I'm going to try a plastic and some other great suggestions from this board.

[Keithalw]

Demoman this place has been a wonderful place to ask questions rather you accept the advice or not. I dont think I have ever been giving one bad comment or even seen one really... btw a guy who helps me out on my game from time to time is actually a lefty so i will ask him if he knows any tips for ya... itll be a few days but ill still ask and let ya know

[Greenday]

Green day I'm glad you got your spare down! I can't throw a straight ball but I'm going to try a plastic and some other great suggestions from this board.

The only way I can throw a semi-straight ball is because it's a plastic ball. If I use any other ones, the hook will screw it up.

[vgw]

I agree that you should try the plastic first. Look at your angles and line and adjust. Take a game or two of practicing the shot and figure it all out. Other options would be to work on a kill shot, where the ball doesn't roll much. You could even consider drilling the ball with reverse side weight if things got real bad.

[Davec13]

I start a half step back if I'm leaving the 10. It probably works out to changing my finishing position to around 6" behind my original stop line though. You are just gonna have to go throw a few games and see if it helps that leave. It's amazing what a half a step can do to your game though.

[75lockwood]

Hey Demoman, do you know if your leaving ringing 7's or weak 7's? depending on which your leaving we can better understand what the cause is.

[Zothen]

Demonman-Can you hold the ball with your fingers on top of ball and throw it that way? In other words can you throw your ball opposite the way a house bowler would throw it.

Zothen

[Demoman]

Hey guys - I waited at the alley today for ups to bring my new purple taboo but they didn't show before I had to go so fingers crossed for tomorrow. 75 I'm not great with bowling lingo but I imagine a ringing 7 would be rocking and barely stand and weak would be not moving at all? If so then I would say the majority would be weak. It's not completely my worry about leaving the sevens so much but more that I consistently pick up the spare which I'm only doing 35-40% of the time. I hope to get some practice before league tomorrow night so I can try Moving back and see if that helps. Zothen I'm not really sure what you mean about fingers on top of the ball? Do you mean my holed bowling fingers? If so I never tried

[GeorgiaStroker]

A ringing seven is when the 4 pin literally flies around the 7 pin with out hitting it. A weak 7 is when the 4 pin just kind of slides in front of the 7 and into the gutter without hitting the 7, so it's really more about how the 4 pin reacts than the 7. It depends on the angle into the pocket more than anything.

[Zothen]

Demonman-If you hold the ball in palm of hand,then turn it over so the ball is facing the floor. Then throw the ball without putting a lot of spin on it.

Zothen

[Tampabaybob]

Years ago, much younger I might add, I was having trouble shooting my ten pins. A pro took me aside one day and taught me how to "kill" the roll on the ball. $0 years later I still use that technique and I'll average probably 98% conversions on my 10 pin.

Basically, all you need to do is break your wrist backwards (thumb on top of the ball facing downward toward the floor on your downswing) with NO ROTATION of your hand and fingers. Yes, you'll be throwing a straight ball with 'nothing' on it. With balls as aggressive as they are today, I can shoot a 10 pin with my Alpha max, over the 3rd arrow, and feel reasonably sure I'll convert it. Of course I don't use the ALPHA, I use my plastic ball.

This is another "trick" we all need to have in our bag of tricks, when we bowl. It's not hard, just a little practice and you can get it. By the way, when you release the ball the thumb stays straight up towards the pins and finishes facing the ceiling. Try it.

Bob

[The German Shepherd]

My grandfather taught me how to bowl. He was born in 1904 and was a well-known athlete (in his day) in the Corning, NY area where I grew up. He threw a back-up ball and had 300s to his name. The way he silenced the back-up ball critics was to take his critics out onto the lanes and out-score them. So, in short, don't waste your time defending your "unorthodox" delivery. Let you scores do the talking. It sounds like you are already on your way to a 200 average!

Jay

[Tampabaybob]

German Shepard........I totally agree. Money talks and Bull Sxxt walks !

[Demoman]

602 series tonight with the new purple taboo - absolutely love the ball but that's destined for another topic. I had two sevens to pick up all night - I wanted to see if the new ball would change things before changing my approach and it sure did. I really think the older black widow was just not getting me the pin action it should have and the new ball did the trick. I still need to work on my sevens anyways because it's still the only shot I have trouble with so I will keep you all posted. TGS thanks for th story about ur grandfather - sounds like he was a great man. Everyone else as always thank you for the suggestions and feedback as I will certainly try them all over time. Best

[Tampabaybob]

Demoman......Did you have an opportunity to see if your pro shop had any used plastic balls ? That and shooting that corner between the third arrows is your answer to 95% pickups on that corner. I'll bet on that percentage using a plastic polished spare ball and shooting the middle of the lane thru the oil.

Bob

[billf]

I finally got to talk to the best left hander I have personally witnessed. He stands far right, right big toe on the edge of the gutter and rolls it over the 18 board (2 boards right of center). It skids to the edge, grabs then goes straight for a few inches into the 7 pin. He missed three 7 pins last year in 413 games.

[Demoman]

Hey guys no I have not had the chance to get a plastic ball yet - I practiced during free time on Monday with a sore throat and that has turned into a nasty flu/cold and I have barely moved since. I'm self employed so any days I miss are a big hit to my bowling cash so I won't be able to get a plastic ball for a few weeks. On Monday I did try a house ball on my sevens and it worked nicely so I'm 100% sure a plastic ball is the answer. With the new taboo I was missing right so I moved right to between 3 and 4 and it seems to be working nicely. I also shot some video and will share it once I feel better. Billf thanks for sharing your friends approach on the 7 that is Basicley what I do but often because I'm using or was using a reactive ball at the last minute it would hook right bye it.

[Demoman]

ok so I have a video for you guys to view - I did rush because I did not think about doing this until the last ten minutes or so of free practice and it was also the first day of a nasty cold im still getting over. Next time I will have more video and wont be rushing to do this /rushing my approach etc. Basicly what im looking for is of course any advice to improve and also for somone to tell me how i bowl for describing it to people trying to help because I know none of the bowling lingo / example im a cranker with so many revs etc etc. Also this is my first video ever and not great at editing and etc so hope its a good start.


http://youtu.be/Va4M7BddTU4

[J Anderson]

If I threw a back-up ball with that much curve, I wouldn't worry about trying throw the "correct" way. I do understand that you physically can not hook it the conventional way. The thing that I noticed is that you tend to pop up right after the release. Most of the the pros and better amateurs post their shots.

[Demoman]

If I threw a back-up ball with that much curve, I wouldn't worry about trying throw the "correct" way. I do understand that you physically can not hook it the conventional way. The thing that I noticed is that you tend to pop up right after the release. Most of the the pros and better amateurs post their shots.

Yes your right I do tend to rush after the shot - especially this day because I was almost out of time and wanted something for the boards to show. Good advice I will work on that

[Zothen]

I would suggest trying to stay down a little longer as you tend to straighten up as you throw the ball. If you can stay down a slit second longer you should see better reation to the pocket.

Zothen

[Demoman]

Stay down and post the shot = got it, thanks! Any info on terms? Stroker?

[Tampabaybob]

You did very good on your first video. Agree with the others about knee bend. Watch the video and look at two things...first straight slide leg and second where you're releasing the ball ! You're letting it go right about knee level and it pounding the heck out of the lane. You need to attempt to get the ball lower. That will increase you roll, and axis rotation on the ball and you will see a major improvement on the action at the pins. Also, some of the frames you extended your leg very well behind you and to your left and some were sort of dragged straight back. Try to keep it well over behind and left as it will open your right hip more for a better swing angle.

Basically, the approach looks good, I'd have you take a couple of more seconds on the approach before stepping off. It should help get your target in better focus. I know you were feeling crappy as well as being rushed, but everything is an easy fix. Looookin Gooood !!

Bob

[billf]

Style? Back up bowler. Definitely not a cranker though. Good vid

[Demoman]

Thanks tampa I was waiting for you to chime in. As soon as I watched myself I noticed how far down the lane I'm dropping the ball and that's something I'm going to work on right away as well as the other things you mentioned. Billf I know I'm a backup bowler and not a cranker. When asking for help people still ask how I throw other then backup like my revs and style and I never know what to say so was looking for something to work with.

[billf]

I know you were but I'm not sure how to phrase it. You throw the best back up ball, reaction wise, I have ever seen. Probable closest to a reverse-tweener.

[Demoman]

Well thanks it did not come easy so I will take that as a compliment - before I broke my hand I considered myself a tweener from what I understood of the lingo so reverse tweener works for me! I'm bowling in my first tournament with this style on Sunday and hope to use some of the valuable advice and motivation I have learned here. Really you guys on this board are fantastic - thank you so very much for making me feel welcomed and like I have a shot of bowling as well as anyone else. Hoping to make a more detailed video this Monday with a less rushed approach and showing some of my weaknesses I have spoken about. Thanks again

[Tampabaybob]

There are many of us on this site that really care about helping others get better. We enjoy the game and would probably travel to where you are if time and money permitted, just to help out. That's why the videos are such a great help. Sometimes we'll have slightly differences of opinions, but this is a game of many variables and what I tell you to try may not work, while Bill or Bowl1820 might be right on target. Just go with the comments, try these things and go with what feels most comfortable and works for you. It's our pleasure to help out.

Bob

[Demoman]

Thanks Bob - you and everyone here are class acts :) I'm happy I found this board.

[Tampabaybob]

You're very welcome.....

[Demoman]

Had a really tough day at the tournament today - wow was the oil thick! My first game was a total tank and what kept me from qualifying as most of the scores were low due to the pattern. - I learned much though and that was the whole reason for going. Looking forward to going back to my house this week and improving.

[Tampabaybob]

Shooting on different patterns is a great, yet sometimes humbling experience. If you can find out which pattern they used it would be to your advantage to try and find a house that uses it once in a while and go shoot a few games to try it out again when you're not under the tournament pressure. You never know when you could run into it again, and trying it with different equipment can only be good for preparation for the next time. Better to have tried and failed, than to have never tried at all.

Keep up the practice.........Bob

[Demoman]

Thanks bob - it was the first game that killed me, if I bowled even close to my second or third game I would have qualified. Im glad I tried though and learned a lot that I can out torwards my game.

[billf]

You learned some things so at least it was worth the time. Better bowling next time!

[Demoman]

Hey guys - I have been missing right a lot lately and went back to this video and noticed I was on it as well. What confuses me is the next time up I will get a strike - so what am I doing different? If I'm missing right 3 times in a row I move right but can never seem to get back to the pocket. Can you guys have one more look at the video and see if you can tell why? I have some more footage available but have not had the time to get it edited and loaded.

[Tampabaybob]

Just went back and reviewed your video again and here's what I'm seeing. Your first 3 steps are pretty good and even as your ball is starting to pass your leg you're in a decent position. Watch the video closely at 1:42 and watch your entire upper body lift upwards. you're getting to the line with your knee slightly bent, but you, are not bending from the waist. Here's what happens when you rear up like that. Of course when you straighten up your head is also going to pop up as well and that makes it pretty tricky to keep your eyes on your target. you're also lofting the ball out quite far because of standing straight up at the line.

Here's what I would like you to try. Keeping your footwork the same, try to get a little more knee bend at the line and BEND at the waist. You should be bending a little more at each step as you get closer to the foul line. Think of your shoulders as wings on an airplane, SMOOTHLY, coming in for a landing on a runway. Each step is a little lower, and try to maintain your head movement so your eyes are not going to bounce off of the target. Sometimes I pop up myself, sand on my next shot, just before I take my first step, I'll say,
"Nice and smoooooth". That reminds my dum *** to stay low and fluid.

When your head pops up, your eyes will go from AND YOUR HAND WILL ALWAYS FOLLOW YOUR EYES. Thats why your pulling the ball to the right. Even if you move your spot, you're repeating the same motion with your head so you'll still miss to the right. Remember it this way, you can't hit what you don't see. Try it.

Bob

[Demoman]

Hi bob - thanks for this. Sorry for the late reply, work has been crazy and I have not had a moment to myself. I missed last weeks league due to work and had not bowled for two weeks until last night. I was off all night and rightfully so without any practice but only finished the night 3 under avg so I'm not that disappointed. Free practice is Monday and I'm going to try your advice and shoot some video. I hope all is well with you and thanks again

[Tampabaybob]

Know what you mean about being busy. Been under the same gun for the last two weeks myself, and trying to make some time to get on line. Shoot us a note after practice and see what happens. Just take your time because it's going to feel very different.

Bob

[Demoman]

Will do bob thanks! What are you throwing these days? I'm thinking the purple taboo is to much ball for my lanes and considering a dv8 marauder madness.