Does Size really matter!!

[MICHAEL]

I know this has been covered before, but I want to make an observation here. The Dude my Friday weekly challenge opponent has had all his 300 games this last year with a 16lb ball. I know he uses all his balls, but if I am not wrong, I am almost sure that all have been with the 16lb’er!! Could it be that you might just get better carry with the 16?? I can throw either, but all my current balls are 15!! Is this what is giving The Dude an edge?? Other then, youth, health, and talent!!

[75lockwood]

if carry increases with weight then why don't we all just throw 20lb or even 50lb balls?!?!?

[bowl1820]

MICHAEL I've seen data where 16 could get a minor increase in carry.But it could go either way.

[JaMau24]

if carry increases with weight then why don't we all just throw 20lb or even 50lb balls?!?!?

Because they don't exist. lol

[75lockwood]

Because they don't exist. lol

well... i'm not sure if its they don't exist as much as they can't exist lol can you imagine someone lobbing a 50lb ball down onto wood lanes? i envision a nice big crater...

[bayedup84]

try a 16lber but prolly all about accuracy

[J Anderson]

if carry increases with weight then why don't we all just throw 20lb or even 50lb balls?!?!?

Because anything more than sixteen pounds would be illegal.

[J Anderson]

I know this has been covered before, but I want to make an observation here. The Dude my Friday weekly challenge opponent has had all his 300 games this last year with a 16lb ball. I know he uses all his balls, but if I am not wrong, I am almost sure that all have been with the 16lb’er!! Could it be that you might just get better carry with the 16?? I can throw either, but all my current balls are 15!! Is this what is giving The Dude an edge?? Other then, youth, health, and talent!!

As far as I know a 16 pound ball is the same size as a 15 pound ball, or even a 6 lb one for that matter. If it were legal to throw a ball that was 8.5" in diameter or even 8.25" it would make a big difference, especially on those pesky baby splits. In the 70s one manufacturer tried to market a ball based on the fact that they were all as close as possible to the maximum size allowed.

In short, size doesn't matter because its not a variable. Weight does matter but only in large increments. By the way, one Saturday morning this fall I watched a little kid throw a strike with a 6 lb ball at about 3 mph!

[bayedup84]

size always matters

[Greenday]

I already did the math on this. It mainly depends on the size of the ball and the speed.

A 16lbs ball at 15mph hits with a force of 163N.

A 15lbs ball at 16mph hits with a force of 174N.

So it really depends on how much the ball speed changes.

[dutchlefty]

Well, there you have it... Accuracy and ballspeed seem to be the keys here and use the ballweight that suites you best..
Greenday ? How did you do the math on that ?? just asking..

[bowl1820]

Does Ball Size Matter?

Wednesday, 10/20/2004



Ron Hickland Recently, I was in a discussion about bowling balls and the topic of ball size came up. Not knowing if size really mattered, I decided to set up a test to hopefully provide some insight into the very heated topic. So, in this issue of Tech Tips, we will explore bowling ball size from a subjective standpoint.
For years, professional bowlers and amateurs alike have said smaller balls hook more, or can go deeper into the pocket, and as a result, will carry better. There has been an equal amount of talk about larger balls. Bowlers have said that larger balls hit better or that larger balls make the pins fly more. So, wondering myself how size effects ball reaction and pin fall, I decided to set up a small experiment to try to find out if size matters or not. The ABC/WIBC specification for diameter is 8.595" to 8.500". Knowing this, we set this test up to sample a range of the specification.

The Set Up
For this experiment we chose three different styles of players. Each player was given the same ball at different sizes.


The sizes were:

1. ABC/WIBC Maximum Diameter
8.595"
2. Ebonite Standard Diameter
8.585"
3. Test One Smaller Diameter
8.550"
4. Test Two Smaller Diameter
8.510"


One of the first things that we decided to look at was inertia or ball dynamic properties of balls. We tested each ball for Rg and differential.

The following is an average list of all of the Mass Properties for the balls:



Rg.

Diff.
Ball 1
ABC/WIBC Maximum Diameter 8.595“

2.538

0.042
Ball 2
Ebonite Standard Diameter 8.585“
2.530
0.044
Ball 3
Test One Smaller Diameter 8.550“
2.520

0.044
Ball 4
Test Two Smaller Diameter 8.510“
2.508

0.046


We also weighed each ball to find out how much difference existed between the balls:


Weight
ABC/WIBC Maximum Diameter 8.595“
15.13 lb.
Ebonite Standard Diameter 8.585“

15.03 lb.
Test One Smaller Diameter 8.550“

14.90 lb.
Test Two Smaller Diameter 8.510“

14.77 lb.

It is interesting to note that size does play a role in Rg as well as differential. Notice that the larger the size, the higher the Rg value and the lower the differential value. These changes are a result of the smaller coverstock allowing the core to play a greater role in the dynamics of the ball. Also, the balls differed as much as 0.36 lb between the highest and the lowest weighted ball.

The ball that was used in this test was the Ebonite V2 Clean. The players were instructed to bowl a minimum of 30 games with each ball in a variety of conditions and houses, and then to comment on each ball as well as select a favorite ball.

Player 1. Professional Bowler and Ebonite Pro Staff
Name: Jason Queen
Rev Rate: Low
Ball Speed: Slow
Style of lane play: in the track
Favorite ball size: 8.510”

Comments:
I tested all of the balls on PBA pattern B and pattern E as well as a house condition. The balls were also thrown on two different lane surfaces, Brunswick Lane Shield as well as Brunswick Pro Anvil lane. The reaction differences were the same for all lane conditions and lane surfaces comparing the balls to each other. The smaller the ball, the lower the pins flew. The smaller the ball, the better the ball cut through the pins. The 8.510" ball carried the best by far. At one point I threw 28 strikes in a row with it. I was amazed at how much entry angle I got from the 8.510" ball. The ball felt the best in my hand, like a softball. I could tell a big difference in the feel of each ball. I felt like I could really rev it up if needed. The ball motion of the 8.510" ball was long and very angular compared to the other balls. The larger the ball, the more even rolling and smoother the ball reaction. I had a tough time carrying and left a lot of 10 pins with the 8.595" ball. The bigger the ball, the quicker the ball stood up in the midlane. I felt that the 8.510” ball was five to six boards stronger than the 8.595" ball. The 8.510" ball will definitely stay in my competition bag!

Player 2. Mega Buck Amateur Bowler
Name: Andrew
Rev Rate: Medium
Ball Speed: Medium
Style of lane play: inside out
Favorite ball size: 8.510"

Comments:
I threw the balls on wood and synthetic. I also used the balls on a Sport pattern, a short house pattern and a long house pattern. The differences in the balls remained the same on each condition and surface. I like the feel of the 8.550" ball the best.
The 8.550" ball hit harder than the 8.585" ball but less than the 8.510" ball.
The 8.510" ball carried the best and hit the hardest. The 8.595" ball seemed to be hard to rev. It was very hard to kick out the corner pin. This ball on impact made the pins fly higher. The differences in span seemed enormous, but when the balls were checked for span, they all measured the same. I think that the smaller the ball, the more angular the ball is and better the carry is in general. Light hits seemed to carry better with the 8.585" ball. The 8.585" ball was good, but if I had my choice I prefer the 8.510" ball because it struck the most.

Player 3. High Average League Bowler
Name: Ron Sr.
Rev Rate: Medium
Ball Speed: Medium
Style of lane play: outside
Favorite ball size: 8.510"

Comments:
I tested the balls on a Guardian surface in one house and on a wood surface in another house. There was a difference in ball reaction from the two houses. In the house that had Guardian, I did not see a big difference in all four of the balls. I really liked how the smaller ball carried the pins and rolled off my hand. It had a very angular entry into the pocket, which was very predictable. I like the feel of the smaller ball. It really feels good in my hand. The ball with the 8.585" diameter felt noticably different in my hand, and the carry was not as predictable as the smaller ball. The ball with the 8.595" diameter felt stretched in my hand and was hard to rev up. It didn’t seem to be as smooth or controllable as the 8.585" ball. On the wood condition, this ball moved a lot earlier than the 8.585" ball and it seemed to lose its hitting power when it got to the pocket. The 8.510" ball rolled the same as the 8.595" did in the Guardian house. It was very controllable and hit the pocket very well with great carry. The 8.550" ball hit harder than the 8.585" ball, but it didn’t carry as well as the 8.510" ball. If I had my choice of the balls, I would be in favor of the 8.510" ball because of how controlling it was and the hitting power it displayed when I threw it.

Manufacturer Differences
We decided to test our balls as well as competitors’ balls for size. We purchased competitive balls on a random basis from several distributors. Our balls averaged 8.585". The competitor balls that we tested ranged from 8.545" to an illegal 8.607".
Ebonite currently uses the 8.585" specification on all bowling balls to allow for maximum resurfacing of its products. The following chart is an average of two balls.

Ball Name
Average Diameter in”
Ebonite V2 Clean
8.585
Ebonite Primal Instinct
8.585
Hammer Deal
8.585
Hammer Switch Blade

8.585
Storm Depth Charge
8.607
Storm Triple Xtreme

8.590
Brunswick Ultimate Inferno

8.577
Brunswick Inferno

8.558
Columbia Shock
8.545
Columbia Alter Ego

8.565
Track Untamed Animal

8.550
Track Animal 8.577

Conclusion:
There were some interesting results about size noted by all participants. Everyone noticed a significant difference in the feel of the balls. The radius of each ball was different based on the size and each player noticed this difference even though the balls have the same span measurements. The smaller ball felt like it was drilled shorter than the larger ball. The legal limit on ball size is also very noticeable when using a quarter scale (see pictures 1 and 2). Even though both of these balls are within ABC/WIBC specifications, there is a gap in size. Everyone also agreed that there was some difference between the balls.
Currently other manufacturer’s product diameters are different and vary from ball to ball. The ABC/WIBC specification for ball diameter is large enough to see differences by players of different types, styles and abilities. Even though not completely conclusive from our small test, it can be said that from a player standpoint that the size of a bowling ball does play a role in ball preference and performance. In this preliminary test, all players seemed to prefer the 8.510" ball over the other sizes. A variety of reasons can be attributed to this, from the way the ball feels in a player’s hand, the increase in rev rate from a smaller ball or because the smaller ball was lighter and offers more control for a bowler. We will continue to test these different size balls, only now on a more formalized basis. We will also begin to collect C.A.T.S. data as well as use Ebonite BowlersMAP™ to help conclude an opinion on our early findings. Who knows? Maybe, as a result of this experiment, we might end up reducing our manufacturing ball specification. We won’t know for sure until we have more facts. For now, at least, it appears that size does matter. We will have an update in a future Tech Tip article.

Ron Hickland
Ball Design Engineer
Ebonite International
rhickland@ebonite.com

[bowl1820]

Heaviest is Not Always Best:

The key is to determine a ball weight that will work best for your athlete. An athlete should not be made to feel that they must use the maximum 16-pound ball. It is incorrect to assume that the heaviest ball will generate the most momentum going through the pins. The simplified equation for momentum below will show that this may not be the case:

mass x speed = momentum
Inserting the following values into this equation shows that a 15-pound ball may actually generate more momentum than a 16-pound ball:
15 lbs. x 18 mph = 270 16 lbs. x 15 mph = 240
In terms of longevity and wear and tear on the body, using a lighter weight ball might be a smarter option.

[Greenday]

Well, there you have it... Accuracy and ballspeed seem to be the keys here and use the ballweight that suites you best..
Greenday ? How did you do the math on that ?? just asking..

Just did the math on the kinetic energy of the ball.

KE = (1/2)mv^2

Convert the mass from pounds to kilograms.
Convert the speeds from MPH to m/s.

Not all of the physics I took in college stuck, but some of the more basic stuff was easier to remember.

[billf]

Greenday, I'm a physics nut and every time I post that formula on here somebody always wants to say it's wrong/inaccurate. Nice to see that this time around people are starting to believe.

[MICHAEL]

well... i'm not sure if its they don't exist as much as they can't exist lol can you imagine someone lobbing a 50lb ball down onto wood lanes? i envision a nice big crater...

Believe me I could~~~ I am not as big as I use to be when I had 19 inch arms, but I still do curls with 50lb dumb bells!!! I have shrunk to 17 inchs now!! lol getting old!! I would love to throw a 50 lb ball but not sure the back stop, could stop the ball!!!!! LOL..... Jason was right,,,, They don't make 50lb balls for a REASON!!! Mortals can't throw the damn thing!!

[Greenday]

Greenday, I'm a physics nut and every time I post that formula on here somebody always wants to say it's wrong/inaccurate. Nice to see that this time around people are starting to believe.

I'm a forensic chemist. Had to take calc-based physics I & II for my degree. Loved it.

[J Anderson]

Does Ball Size Matter?

Wednesday, 10/20/2004



Ron Hickland Recently, I was in a discussion about bowling balls and the topic of ball size came up. Not knowing if size really mattered, I decided to set up a test to hopefully provide some insight into the very heated topic. So, in this issue of Tech Tips, we will explore bowling ball size from a subjective standpoint.
For years, professional bowlers and amateurs alike have said smaller balls hook more, or can go deeper into the pocket, and as a result, will carry better. There has been an equal amount of talk about larger balls. Bowlers have said that larger balls hit better or that larger balls make the pins fly more. So, wondering myself how size effects ball reaction and pin fall, I decided to set up a small experiment to try to find out if size matters or not. The ABC/WIBC specification for diameter is 8.595" to 8.500". Knowing this, we set this test up to sample a range of the specification.

The Set Up
For this experiment we chose three different styles of players. Each player was given the same ball at different sizes.


The sizes were:

1. ABC/WIBC Maximum Diameter
8.595"
2. Ebonite Standard Diameter
8.585"
3. Test One Smaller Diameter
8.550"
4. Test Two Smaller Diameter
8.510"


One of the first things that we decided to look at was inertia or ball dynamic properties of balls. We tested each ball for Rg and differential.

The following is an average list of all of the Mass Properties for the balls:



Rg.

Diff.
Ball 1
ABC/WIBC Maximum Diameter 8.595“

2.538

0.042
Ball 2
Ebonite Standard Diameter 8.585“
2.530
0.044
Ball 3
Test One Smaller Diameter 8.550“
2.520

0.044
Ball 4
Test Two Smaller Diameter 8.510“
2.508

0.046


We also weighed each ball to find out how much difference existed between the balls:


Weight
ABC/WIBC Maximum Diameter 8.595“
15.13 lb.
Ebonite Standard Diameter 8.585“

15.03 lb.
Test One Smaller Diameter 8.550“

14.90 lb.
Test Two Smaller Diameter 8.510“

14.77 lb.

It is interesting to note that size does play a role in Rg as well as differential. Notice that the larger the size, the higher the Rg value and the lower the differential value. These changes are a result of the smaller coverstock allowing the core to play a greater role in the dynamics of the ball. Also, the balls differed as much as 0.36 lb between the highest and the lowest weighted ball.

The ball that was used in this test was the Ebonite V2 Clean. The players were instructed to bowl a minimum of 30 games with each ball in a variety of conditions and houses, and then to comment on each ball as well as select a favorite ball.

Player 1. Professional Bowler and Ebonite Pro Staff
Name: Jason Queen
Rev Rate: Low
Ball Speed: Slow
Style of lane play: in the track
Favorite ball size: 8.510”

Comments:
I tested all of the balls on PBA pattern B and pattern E as well as a house condition. The balls were also thrown on two different lane surfaces, Brunswick Lane Shield as well as Brunswick Pro Anvil lane. The reaction differences were the same for all lane conditions and lane surfaces comparing the balls to each other. The smaller the ball, the lower the pins flew. The smaller the ball, the better the ball cut through the pins. The 8.510" ball carried the best by far. At one point I threw 28 strikes in a row with it. I was amazed at how much entry angle I got from the 8.510" ball. The ball felt the best in my hand, like a softball. I could tell a big difference in the feel of each ball. I felt like I could really rev it up if needed. The ball motion of the 8.510" ball was long and very angular compared to the other balls. The larger the ball, the more even rolling and smoother the ball reaction. I had a tough time carrying and left a lot of 10 pins with the 8.595" ball. The bigger the ball, the quicker the ball stood up in the midlane. I felt that the 8.510” ball was five to six boards stronger than the 8.595" ball. The 8.510" ball will definitely stay in my competition bag!

Player 2. Mega Buck Amateur Bowler
Name: Andrew
Rev Rate: Medium
Ball Speed: Medium
Style of lane play: inside out
Favorite ball size: 8.510"

Comments:
I threw the balls on wood and synthetic. I also used the balls on a Sport pattern, a short house pattern and a long house pattern. The differences in the balls remained the same on each condition and surface. I like the feel of the 8.550" ball the best.
The 8.550" ball hit harder than the 8.585" ball but less than the 8.510" ball.
The 8.510" ball carried the best and hit the hardest. The 8.595" ball seemed to be hard to rev. It was very hard to kick out the corner pin. This ball on impact made the pins fly higher. The differences in span seemed enormous, but when the balls were checked for span, they all measured the same. I think that the smaller the ball, the more angular the ball is and better the carry is in general. Light hits seemed to carry better with the 8.585" ball. The 8.585" ball was good, but if I had my choice I prefer the 8.510" ball because it struck the most.

Player 3. High Average League Bowler
Name: Ron Sr.
Rev Rate: Medium
Ball Speed: Medium
Style of lane play: outside
Favorite ball size: 8.510"

Comments:
I tested the balls on a Guardian surface in one house and on a wood surface in another house. There was a difference in ball reaction from the two houses. In the house that had Guardian, I did not see a big difference in all four of the balls. I really liked how the smaller ball carried the pins and rolled off my hand. It had a very angular entry into the pocket, which was very predictable. I like the feel of the smaller ball. It really feels good in my hand. The ball with the 8.585" diameter felt noticably different in my hand, and the carry was not as predictable as the smaller ball. The ball with the 8.595" diameter felt stretched in my hand and was hard to rev up. It didn’t seem to be as smooth or controllable as the 8.585" ball. On the wood condition, this ball moved a lot earlier than the 8.585" ball and it seemed to lose its hitting power when it got to the pocket. The 8.510" ball rolled the same as the 8.595" did in the Guardian house. It was very controllable and hit the pocket very well with great carry. The 8.550" ball hit harder than the 8.585" ball, but it didn’t carry as well as the 8.510" ball. If I had my choice of the balls, I would be in favor of the 8.510" ball because of how controlling it was and the hitting power it displayed when I threw it.

Manufacturer Differences
We decided to test our balls as well as competitors’ balls for size. We purchased competitive balls on a random basis from several distributors. Our balls averaged 8.585". The competitor balls that we tested ranged from 8.545" to an illegal 8.607".
Ebonite currently uses the 8.585" specification on all bowling balls to allow for maximum resurfacing of its products. The following chart is an average of two balls.

Ball Name
Average Diameter in”
Ebonite V2 Clean
8.585
Ebonite Primal Instinct
8.585
Hammer Deal
8.585
Hammer Switch Blade

8.585
Storm Depth Charge
8.607
Storm Triple Xtreme

8.590
Brunswick Ultimate Inferno

8.577
Brunswick Inferno

8.558
Columbia Shock
8.545
Columbia Alter Ego

8.565
Track Untamed Animal

8.550
Track Animal 8.577

Conclusion:
There were some interesting results about size noted by all participants. Everyone noticed a significant difference in the feel of the balls. The radius of each ball was different based on the size and each player noticed this difference even though the balls have the same span measurements. The smaller ball felt like it was drilled shorter than the larger ball. The legal limit on ball size is also very noticeable when using a quarter scale (see pictures 1 and 2). Even though both of these balls are within ABC/WIBC specifications, there is a gap in size. Everyone also agreed that there was some difference between the balls.
Currently other manufacturer’s product diameters are different and vary from ball to ball. The ABC/WIBC specification for ball diameter is large enough to see differences by players of different types, styles and abilities. Even though not completely conclusive from our small test, it can be said that from a player standpoint that the size of a bowling ball does play a role in ball preference and performance. In this preliminary test, all players seemed to prefer the 8.510" ball over the other sizes. A variety of reasons can be attributed to this, from the way the ball feels in a player’s hand, the increase in rev rate from a smaller ball or because the smaller ball was lighter and offers more control for a bowler. We will continue to test these different size balls, only now on a more formalized basis. We will also begin to collect C.A.T.S. data as well as use Ebonite BowlersMAP™ to help conclude an opinion on our early findings. Who knows? Maybe, as a result of this experiment, we might end up reducing our manufacturing ball specification. We won’t know for sure until we have more facts. For now, at least, it appears that size does matter. We will have an update in a future Tech Tip article.

Ron Hickland
Ball Design Engineer
Ebonite International
rhickland@ebonite.com

I'm amazed that people could feel a .085" difference in the size of the ball.

[billf]

Jihn, if they knew which was which then they probably couldn't. Knowing something is smaller makes the brain think it feels smaller. That's why real studies are done blind or double blind.

[Davec13]

Believe me I could~~~ I am not as big as I use to be when I had 19 inch arms, but I still do curls with 50lb dumb bells!!! I have shrunk to 17 inchs now!! lol getting old!! I would love to throw a 50 lb ball but not sure the back stop, could stop the ball!!!!! LOL..... Jason was right,,,, They don't make 50lb balls for a REASON!!! Mortals can't throw the damn thing!!

I have put a 15lb ball through the back a few times. It's never fun asking the owner (who constantly tells me to slow down) to go in the back and get my ball for me. A 50lb ball would destroy the back stop, hell even a 20lb ball would tear it up.