Type of folow through..

[Ball99999]

I think most people use a handshake straight up to your ear follow through.. they turn the ball, let the two fingers turn the ball and then come out. Pete Weber for example. But then some bowlers will let their fingers flow through the ball in to the left. Their hand crosses to the left in the follow through and they wave it across their face. I've seen Chris Barnes do this.

I can do it myself, I can even really jerk it through real hard or go soft, the ball still follows its path because of the straight swing but.. I get LESS hook when I do that. So why do pros do that?

*follow

[billf]

You get less hook doing that because you're cupping/uncupping. Chris Barnes, Sean Rash and others that do it use the cock/uncock release. Using either, I can't let my follow through go to my left like that and hit my mark.

[Ball99999]

Well I guess a better question is, are they lifting with their fingers? Or are they letting the ball and their fingers freely separate?

[Tampabaybob]

they're actually rotating the all with a combination of wrist and fingers. It happens so fast it's hard to see sometimes, but they put an enormous amount of rotation on the ball in a split second. I agree with Bill, bringing your arm forward in front of your face takes a lot of practice in order to get the ball to your target. Most bowlers would end up pulling the ball because they would release too late.

Bob

[Doghouse Reilly]

I go with astraight arm and the handshake, trying to keep the swing free and leading my ring finger through my target line.

[Ball99999]

I just learned that follow through helps dictate axis rotation, straight forward for 90• and to 1oclock for 45•

So now i REALLY don't know what those guys are doin

[billf]

Now I'm going to have to check my follow through of my different releases and axis rotations. I was pretty sure the follow through was the same.
To make sure I'm understanding you, you let your arm follow through to the 1:00 position, away from your body????

[Ball99999]

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_4_point_release.pdf

so basically, 90degree have arm parallel with gutter, 45degree have arm pointing a little to the right of the gutter.

[bowl1820]

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_4_point_release.pdf

so basically, 90degree have arm parallel with gutter, 45degree have arm pointing a little to the right of the gutter.


The 90 & 45 degree's in the article is referring to the rotation on the ball and the hand position used to give that rotation, Not by the follow through.

The classic follow would have the arm basically stay on the same plane as the swing, inline with your target path.

Using the pendulum analogy, when you watch a pendulum swing back and forth. The pendulum swings back and forth on the same plane.

[Ball99999]

The 90 & 45 degree's in the article is referring to the rotation on the ball and the hand position used to give that rotation, Not by the follow through.

The classic follow would have the arm basically stay on the same plane as the swing, inline with your target path.

Using the pendulum analogy, when you watch a pendulum swing back and forth. The pendulum swings back and forth on the same plane.

sorry, checking again, specifically

"To achieve this release, you want to imagine your thumb, after exiting the ball,
continuing to a reference point, 1 o’clock, in the follow-through. Specifically,
the bowler will imagine their thumb traveling to 1 o’clock (right-handed)"

makes it sound to me like if you were looking at a giant clock, you are following through to that point.
So if you were to let off the ball on the 45 degree release, your hand is going to stop rotating at that point and come up and it's definitely going to be around 30 degrees tilted right.

If you're not going to put any lift on the ball with your fingers and just come through it that's where the hand naturally will end up.

A lot of this is a bit above my experience level, but a couple weeks ago I tried a 90 degree release with a flatspot followthrough straight up, and it did hook more than I could handle, while last week I played 45 degree and it worked relatively well. Mind you I didn't actually see the ball spinning directly from right to left so I'm not sure HOW they really get that perpendicular roll. Anything is good for me considering the problems I had with side roll a few weeks ago and before.

[bowl1820]

The thing with the slowinski article is he's talking about where the thumb is pointing at the release. Not where the arm is going to in the follow through.

Here's a example a good swing and follow through
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w89/aloarjr810/bowlingxtras/swing_01.jpg

[billf]

Bowl is correct once again. Joe said the thumb at release, not to swing your entire arm in that direction. Have you also read his article on swing slot? That one is pretty awesome.

[Ball99999]

Put it this way, if you rotate your fingers to 4:30, and then followed through, where would your arm end up? Certainly not parallel with the gutter

[billf]

Depends. If I'm playing far right it sure would. I keep my swing the same and it goes towards my break point no matter where I start on the lane. When I'm playing deep I use a crossover step to align my body to my target. My finger or wrist rotation has no affect on my arm swing.

[Ball99999]

Maybe because of the straight swing your hand goes up straight no matter what, I can't test right now at home

[Tampabaybob]

I get what Bowl1820 and Bill are trying to explain. You appear to be confusing hand position/thumb position with arm swing. You can change your hand position a hundred different ways, but your arm swing should remain constant. As Bill noted, if your intention is to play deeper on the lane, then your arm swing will not be parallel to the boards, but should be swinging towards your breakpoint. When you're playing deep inside, your torso would also be facing the breakpoint, which means you should be very close to having the same arm swing as if you were playing up the boards. Again, try not to confuse the two. You want your arm swing to be as humanly consistent as possible and make your changes to your hand position for varying results. Too many variations of an arm swing could definitely get you into trouble.

Bob

[Ball99999]

Is this why they say drive with the index finger, drive with the middle finger etc... because the arm is always going forward and that's the finger in such and such position that is facing forward?

[Tampabaybob]

Yes. Next tim you bowl, try this. put just a small amount of pressure on the ball withe your index finger and have the finger pointing towards your target. It's a little different feel and may change the roll just a little. Susie Minshaw suggested this in a Bowling this Month article a few months back. I tried it, and it seemed to help my accuracy and the ball seemed to roll just a bit differently (for the better). Give it a try.

Bob

[billf]

Bob, Chris Barnes said the same thing in an interview early last year. Knowing how exceptional a bowler he is and very versatile, I tried it. My average has jumped way up since then. The hardest part to get use to was having the wrist turned so far clockwise in my set up, it just felt so weird.
My coach has something he uses. When performing any change he asks, "Does it feel weird?" "Yes" I usually say. "Good. Then you know you're doing it right." If you change something and it feels the same, you didn't really change it.

[Tampabaybob]

Very true Bill. That's why a lot of newer bowlers think some of the changes are wrong, just because it feels differently. Once they can get past that and see the improvement, then they're ok with it. I also have made changes over the years that felt very awkward, but you just keep trying until it becomes muscle memory. Then it's ok.

Bob

[billf]

I checked today during my practice. Played from gutter to gutter and my swing was straight each time going towards my target. All that changed was my hand and/or wrist position.

[Tampabaybob]

Did you try putting a little pressure on the ball with your index finger to see how it felt and if there was any difference? Just wondering and what the results might have been. Also waiting for ball99999 to see if he tried it and his reaction.

Bob

[Ball99999]

Did you try putting a little pressure on the ball with your index finger to see how it felt and if there was any difference? Just wondering and what the results might have been. Also waiting for ball99999 to see if he tried it and his reaction.

Bob

I guess I'm not too sure what you mean by pressure with the index finger since I already usually place some to help keep the wrist straight.

Now when I practice with my hand, the difference between these hand positions seem very small, do they really make a big difference?

[billf]

Yes, they make a big difference. They are small but so is the circumference of the ball. It's this fact that causes so many people to come over the top of the ball and stuff.

@Bob, I've been using that release as one of the ones I use since I heard that interview. It's too much at my home center for some lines so I don't use it all the time.

[Ball99999]

Hmm rethinking this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQV-a9txXj4

notice the clock and them placing the follow through at 1?

Ok now that I think it through more I really feel like when he says follow the thumb out to 12 or 1 it means in the follow through.

[billf]

All I heard was the commercial lol
Fred Borden is one of the greatest coaches ever but you have to listen carefully to what he's saying. There have been times I swore what he said and what they showed didn't match.

[billf]

Fred Borden also does mybowlingcoach.com with Jeri Edwards, Ron Hatfield and Andy Parker. They are all wonderful to work with in person too.