How do you "cock" your wrist?

[Ball99999]

If you layed your hand/arm flat on a table, palm up, with the table being a clock face, and your hand and fingers all pointing at 12 to start, would cocking your wrist be:

1) tilting your hand, still flat on the table, where all fingers are pointing to 9-10?

or

2) all fingers still pointing toward 12 for the most part but rotated clockwise so that they'd be on the inside part of a ball?

[Tampabaybob]

Wow, sitting here at the table trying to figure this one out. If the back of your hand is flat on the table, thumb facing straight up and fingers as well, you would bend your wrist back towards you to get a cupping effect. When I hold my ball, I have that position, then I'll rotate my fingers to a 9:00 position (thumb at 3:00) and try to hold that all the way through to my release. As my thumb is coming out, the wrist will break back to a flat position and my fingers will rotate counter clockwise to the point of full release.

Hard to verbalize but that's how I release my ball. Does that make sense?

Bob

[Ball99999]

Wow, sitting here at the table trying to figure this one out. If the back of your hand is flat on the table, thumb facing straight up and fingers as well, you would bend your wrist back towards you to get a cupping effect. When I hold my ball, I have that position, then I'll rotate my fingers to a 9:00 position (thumb at 3:00) and try to hold that all the way through to my release. As my thumb is coming out, the wrist will break back to a flat position and my fingers will rotate counter clockwise to the point of full release.

Hard to verbalize but that's how I release my ball. Does that make sense?

Bob

Yes. Fingers at 9 seems like a lot of torque, do you get a lot of revs?

[Tampabaybob]

I would guess my rev rate is 300 -350. I've never actually had it measured but from what other bowlers better than me have said, it seems it may be about that level. I'm guessing what you would call a power tweener. Not bad for an old guy, but I work at the game. It's funny, with this sport, you never stop learning.

I may have mentioned this before, and if I did, I apologize, but because you are so into this, my recommendation would be for you to get a subscription to "Bowling this Month". I can't say enough good about this magazine. I consider it a bowling bible. If you go on their web site they'll actually send you a free copy of the latest issue. Once you've got it in your hands, you'll want a subscription.

Bob

[GoodGorilla]

Wow, sitting here at the table trying to figure this one out. If the back of your hand is flat on the table, thumb facing straight up and fingers as well, you would bend your wrist back towards you to get a cupping effect. When I hold my ball, I have that position, then I'll rotate my fingers to a 9:00 position (thumb at 3:00) and try to hold that all the way through to my release. As my thumb is coming out, the wrist will break back to a flat position and my fingers will rotate counter clockwise to the point of full release.

Hard to verbalize but that's how I release my ball. Does that make sense?

Bob

Woah, I never realized you could turn your fingers to 9 o clock after cupping the ball. I'm still getting use to cupping so I'm not gonna mess with cocking it again.

[Greenday]

Woah, I never realized you could turn your fingers to 9 o clock after cupping the ball. I'm still getting use to cupping so I'm not gonna mess with cocking it again.

I'd imagine it's mostly to do with the fact that the ball isn't in your hand long enough for it to just fall out.

[GoodGorilla]

I watched a bolwer the other day who was obviously cocking his wrist and not cupping the ball very much. His average was over 200 so I asked him why he wasn't cupping the ball. He said that cocking the wrist is more important, but he still cups it a little bit. Does anyone agree with this guy? I told him that I'm learning how to cup the ball first.

[Tampabaybob]

I cock my wrist a little, and I start the first game with my fingers at 9-10 o'clock position. Depending on the shot, and my own feeling that night, I decide where I think my best shot would be and move my wrist and hand position to compensate. Our lanes are usually pretty dry outside of second arrow and most of the guys play that area. So it'll dry out pretty quick. I'll usually try to stay towards second arrow or a couple of boards inside of that. Hand position is a very important tool to learn to use. It takes practice but once you can "FEEL IT" it helps a lot.

Bob

[J Anderson]

I watched a bolwer the other day who was obviously cocking his wrist and not cupping the ball very much. His average was over 200 so I asked him why he wasn't cupping the ball. He said that cocking the wrist is more important, but he still cups it a little bit. Does anyone agree with this guy? I told him that I'm learning how to cup the ball first.

Cupping is going to affect rev rate more than anything else. Consistency in the amount of revs is probably more important than the actual number. Some of the most successful pros like WRW and Duke have relatively low rev rates.

I certainly agree with your idea of trying to master one thing at a time. Its very easy to try and change to many things at once, trying to be a top level bowler all at once. This makes it more difficult to figure things out when its just not working.

[billf]

Some bowlers generate revs successfully with cupping, others, like Sean Rash, generate theirs by cocking the wrist. Both can be effective. Taking the time to learn both can definitely help any bowler. Cupping wasn't nearly as effective for me earlier this week so I went to cocking it and was able to at least stay competitive.
The more styles you can learn the more versatile you will be. Comes in handy when something just won't work.

[Ball99999]

What is meant by the yoyo analogy? Is that for end over end straight shots?

[Tampabaybob]

I'm not familiar with that term. I'll have to research it. Like everything, people coin new terms all of the time. I'll see if I can find out and get back to you or someone else on the forum may know.

Bob

[Ball99999]

Thanks. Whenever I keep my hand behind the ball and come up behind the ball, the ball goes dead straight. But I'm wondering if cocking it/twisting it, then releasing by coming up behind the ball will still create side turn since I am rotating it a little bit.

[billf]

Thanks. Whenever I keep my hand behind the ball and come up behind the ball, the ball goes dead straight. But I'm wondering if cocking it/twisting it, then releasing by coming up behind the ball will still create side turn since I am rotating it a little bit.

If I'm interpreting your description correctly, then yes it will. Given the problems you are having getting side rotation, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe you feel as though you are behind the ball yet may actually be staying a little inside the ball. Most of what humans feel is exaggerated with most bowlers coming around the outside of the ball to some degree when they feel they are behind it. So maybe you're a little different (a good thing in my book) and are actually too far inside.

[Tampabaybob]

Thanks. Whenever I keep my hand behind the ball and come up behind the ball, the ball goes dead straight. But I'm wondering if cocking it/twisting it, then releasing by coming up behind the ball will still create side turn since I am rotating it a little bit.

When I have a bowler that goes over the top of the ball (and I have a few that do regularly), I'll tell them to position their thumb at 11:00 or 12:00 and then attempt to throw a straight ball. 99% of the time the ball will still hook, because the muscle memory in your body will take over and the wrist and fingers will still do the same rotation. It's really mind over matter, but the hardest thing to get through to some bowlers, is focusing on their hand throughout the backswing and keeping the hand rigid till the point of release. You still need to relax your release and "allow" the wrist to rotate. Your ball WILL hook.

I know that many of the bowlers on this forum are fairly new to the game, and haven't had the many years of experience that many here have had, and it's very easy to "tell" someone how to do something. It's another thing for that person to go out and practice it based on a written explanation. Practice, with the thought of concentrating on one particular point, is probably the best way to achieve fixing a problem. The hard part comes in, putting it all together. Sometimes it's a painstaking experience to make the changes we all want to make in our game, to increase our scores. We all, no matter how long you've been doing this, STILL make stupid errors during the course of the 3 league games. I have many shots that I would love to have taken over, but that's one thing that makes us all come back the next time; to not make those mistakes and score higher.

Bob

[billf]

Bob, it wouldn't be any fun if we didn't make those mistakes. A bunch of 300 average bowlers isn't for me. The worst part of things here is we aren't there to point out when it looks correct or incorrect. We both know that what is usually felt isn't was is actually happening. That's why everybody should record their practices (if possible) so they can see what is really happening. Most people are dismayed the first time they see themselves bowling. I've even taken to recording the youth league so now when I say "stay under the ball" (or whatever) and they say they are, I show them the tape. Then they say, "I thought I was".