less revs

[snugbucco]

Hi all, I have been working on my new release and my ball is REALLY moving. I cant seem to stay on the right side of the pocket. I keep whining up brook-lining on almost every shot. Tonight at league I started at 23 and throwing at 15 I ended up about 33 and pushing the ball out to about the 2 board, and I'd still brooklin most the time... any suggestions on how to reduce hook? Do i turn my hand less? or do i turn it slower after the thumb has left the ball. :confused: :confused:

Ball's I'm using are Motiv 2 cruel and Frantic when the lanes dry out.

[Ball99999]

Hi all, I have been working on my new release and my ball is REALLY moving. I cant seem to stay on the right side of the pocket. I keep whining up brook-lining on almost every shot. Tonight at league I started at 23 and throwing at 15 I ended up about 33 and pushing the ball out to about the 2 board, and I'd still brooklin most the time... any suggestions on how to reduce hook? Do i turn my hand less? or do i turn it slower after the thumb has left the ball. :confused: :confused:

Ball's I'm using are Motiv 2 cruel and Frantic when the lanes dry out.

1) speed up if you can
2) yes reduce hand turn speed. Come up the back for an end over end roll or at least slightly around it.
3) uncup your wrist as much as possible.
4) spread your pinky finger.

[Tampabaybob]

Had the same thing happen to one of the younger guys I bowl with last night. He had an awful time right out of the box. I sometimes hesitate to mention changes to some people unless they appear to want to know what to do. Well he asked and I explained coming up behind the ball to get an end over end roll instead of try to crank the ball and continue to hit the noise or go brooklyn. He tried it the last few frames of the second game and the third game shot a decent 200+.

When you run into this situations, you need to take action as fast as possible so you don't ruin your night and go out banging your head against the wall. There are several changes you can make but as we all know the frames are limited and you don't want it figured out by the 7th frame of the 3rd game. Back to basics, when you're struggling, don't try to overwork the ball or over think the situation. Figure out what you want to/need to do between frames and then get up and do it without over thinking on the approach. Think of coming up the back of the ball as throwing a straight ball but with rotation of your wrist and fingers at the last second. Typically bowlers that normally throw a hook, because of muscle memory, will not throw a straight ball anyway just because their hand will rotate automatically.

Ball9999 is right on the money with his suggestions. Try them.

Bob

[Ball99999]

Had the same thing happen to one of the younger guys I bowl with last night. He had an awful time right out of the box. I sometimes hesitate to mention changes to some people unless they appear to want to know what to do. Well he asked and I explained coming up behind the ball to get an end over end roll instead of try to crank the ball and continue to hit the noise or go brooklyn. He tried it the last few frames of the second game and the third game shot a decent 200+.

When you run into this situations, you need to take action as fast as possible so you don't ruin your night and go out banging your head against the wall. There are several changes you can make but as we all know the frames are limited and you don't want it figured out by the 7th frame of the 3rd game. Back to basics, when you're struggling, don't try to overwork the ball or over think the situation. Figure out what you want to/need to do between frames and then get up and do it without over thinking on the approach. Think of coming up the back of the ball as throwing a straight ball but with rotation of your wrist and fingers at the last second. Typically bowlers that normally throw a hook, because of muscle memory, will not throw a straight ball anyway just because their hand will rotate automatically.

Ball9999 is right on the money with his suggestions. Try them.

Bob

After basically bowling 80% on dry to medium alleys I have completely changed what interests me, I now want more pearl balls made for medium-dry lanes. Heavy balls no longer interest me. If there isn't enough oil, probably since it's not a sports pattern, they enter a roll so early it's like throwing a cinnamon roll down the lane.

[billf]

Another instance where being able to control/change axis rotation would better suit the bowler rather than worrying about revs.

[snugbucco]

Thanks for the advice guys. After sitting back and just going over my game in my head and taking your comments in. I'm going to try to adjust my speed through my approach , hand rotation and how to put the ball down with altered axis rotation... one at a time of course and see what works for me

Any advice on how to alter the axis rotation??

also, I naturally loft the hell out of the ball cause im 6'4 and dont bend really in my release.. like should.. The ball was pretty much landing 2 inches pass the arrows I was aiming at. If I get the ball down in the oil sooner will that take some revs out of the ball??

[Big Nick]

I may be misremembering what I've read, but I believe that to alter axis rotation you adjust how much you have your wrist cocked. Cocking your hand inward will give more snap while leaving it straight or cocking it outward will produce more roll.

[Tampabaybob]

Snug, just because you're 6-4, doesn't mean you have to loft the ball out the far. Remember every time you do that you're taking a lot off of the ball when it hits, just from the impact. Unless you have really bad knees, try getting down lower at the line to "roll the ball". Even if you could manage to get down to 18" that would help you. If you can get someone to shoot a short video of you throwing a few frames that would really help us to make some suggestions.

Axis rotation.....think of it this way.... with your hand in front of you, thumb straight up, the back of your fingers facing the pins, this would what I would call, ground zero. This is the position (with wrist locked straight) that you would use to come straight up behind the ball (drier conditions).
Now rotate your fingers (not your thumb) to the 11:00 position as if you are going say one click. Next, rotate your fingers to 10:00 or two clicks. Third, rotate your fingers to 9:00 or one more click. OK, these are 4 hand positions that you can/should try to use and your roll axis should change slightly with each change. Now if you bend your wrist up (at the 12:00 position your thumb would be pointing at you [wrist cocked]) and do the same rotation /clicks with your fingers, you are now changing the roll axis even more and should see a different roll from your ball and create a different roll axis.

So what you have here is really 8 different hand positions you could try, that should give you slightly different roll axis, and ball reactions. If you went from say #1 (wrist straight) to #4 with your hand cupped, you should see the largest change. One thing to remember. When you set a hand position at the start of your approach, you must hold that exact hand position all the way through to release to achieve the desired effect.

Try it, see what it will do for you and let me know.

Bob

[snugbucco]

Thanks tampabob! :) I will have to try these hand positions next bowling practice (monday), Ill put my cell phone on a chair and record myself bowling a few frames. Ill try to bend more with my knee, I wont be like every person and say I do have bad knees, I'm much too hard headed to admit it maybe lol but they are weaker then other peoples, by a lot.. lol just wasnt blessed with strong knees... But no excuses, right! ;) I'm only 27 ill try to bend in the knee more, my instructor even told me to get low. I dont really slide :( its more of a stick and step release.. think I should practice sliding also?

[Tampabaybob]

Absolutely, sliding, if done properly should take some of the strain off of your knee. You can also control your balance much better with even just a short slide as opposed to planting your foot.

My knees are starting to bother me as well, but I've got almost 40 years on you in age. Sometimes things get old and weary, but not giving up yet. Practice sliding at home (without the ball) on a kitchen floor in your socks and try to hold your balance with your non slide leg behind you and to the left.
Left arm should also be extended all the way out to the left, again for balance.

Bob

[snugbucco]

Hi all. sorry I haven't been online to tell you I was called into work Monday morning and I just got home late last night .. I had league earlier tonight so i haven't had time to record myself, but i plan to do it this Saturday sorry again for just getting back to you all. Cant wait for you all to see how bad of a bowler i am >.< heh

Tonight at league tho without practice I tried to just throw the ball without so much hook and it was working for me. Just throwing it softer! and hitting my mark... good things happened.. :)

Bob I will definitely look into those hand positions man, I would love to learn to tweak my axis at will.

[Tampabaybob]

It's a great tool to have and be able to use. Takes some time to get the feel of if, so don' be dismayed. Last night in my league I changed my hand position in the 4th frame of the first game to coming up straighter behind the ball and ended up @ 226. Switched balls @ toward the end of the second game because the lanes dried out and finished with 654. Beat one of the better bowlers in the Tampa area 3 outa 4 points so I'm happy with the results. Watching the reaction of the ball, and what it's doing going down the lane is very important. The ball movement will tell you what you need to change, and that's why it's so important to follow it all the way off of the pin deck. The reaction of the ball will tell you if you need to change your hand position. Sounds like you had a good night bowling also.

Bob

[Hammer]

Sounds like a Blue Hammer urethane ball would help you out if you can't take out the hook with the ball you have now. You can throw this ball straight down the boards and have a nice controlled back end hook.

[edpup316]

Im 6'2" 370 and i can get lower then my 110 pound gf. Height and weight have nothing to do with getting low, it's all flexability and if you have the ability by all means get as low as you possibly can and still be comfortable. You want that ball to look like an air plane coming in for a landing when you release it.

[Tampabaybob]

Im 6'2" 370 and i can get lower then my 110 pound gf. Height and weight have nothing to do with getting low, it's all flexability and if you have the ability by all means get as low as you possibly can and still be comfortable. You want that ball to look like an air plane coming in for a landing when you release it.

Good analogy with the airplane. I also use that with a persons shoulder plane going down the approach ( lower, lower, lowest)

Bob