Good technique, but not much hook/movement across boards?

[Ball99999]

It was late at night and the lanes were fairly dry, no oil rings on the ball at all. I was bowling well and had a good release going, think Mika Koivuniemi's release. First the Modern Marvel then later the DV8 Misfit. Both hit like a train and there was no deflection and I got quite a few strikes. Since the lanes were dry my speed was rather high to keep the ball on the lane. Here is a diagram of how I felt the ball was reacting. The arrows are where my feet were, though they were pointed to the right.
The red ball is where I'm assuming it started the trajectory onto over the third arrow. The red line is how it maps out on this diagram but I feel the diagram is off scale so the blue line is more how I feel it looked to my eyes at the end of the lane. The green lines are examples of different angles I tried.

http://i.imgur.com/Z4rEr.jpg

But if I try at a different angle, like going over second arrow and try to swing it from right to left, it really doesn't SNAP like I've seen it do before, or others do. It kind of turns but then goes more straight than to the left and hits between 3-6, or 6-10.

It felt like the ball never hooked until right at the end. Is it too high of a degree of axis rotation?

Is it a revs thing? When I try holding my hand more on the inside of the ball, or turning it to the inside during the swing, I end up hanging up on the ball, my thumb gets caught in it and I over turn it or just get stuck etc. I don't know how to cock my wrist sideways and keep it there.. um then there's cupping, should I cup it? I tend to get hung up in the ball when I cup it a lot as well. I mean given what I said about it hitting very strong and getting strikes I don't NEED the extra hook.

OR is all this just a result of how that particular lane was playing?

OR is it ball surface? 4000 Abralon on the Modern Marvel with hand polish.

Also since I've really felt that free ball swing and extra speed there is so much more carry and pin action. I love it. My spare ball doesn't have it, so I'm assuming it's the cores?

[Zothen]

I think the red line is correct if the lane is as dry as you say. Your flattening the ball out causing it to go straight into the 3-6 or 6-10.

Your trying to hard to get side roll! Take a football and toss it underhand with a spiral. This will simulate how your bowling is suppose to come off your hand.

Your thinking to much and this may be part of your problem! Try this-Stand on your normal board,line up your shot,keep eye focused on your mark and just bowl letting your arm swing naturally and release with your arm in a handshake position.

Zothen

[billf]

You need a coach. Not being a wise guy or making fun of you. First, you're not getting the ball out far enough according to your blue line and I bet that's pretty accurate. If you move right and are hitting the 3-6 & 6-10, that makes sense given the line you're getting playing deeper. You get all late hook. Ball or you I can't tell from here. Second, your thumb hanging up when playing the inside or cupping. There has to be something wrong with either your technique or equipment. Again, something that I would have to see in person to determine. Third, stop thinking so damn much. Seriously, you are over-analyzing everything. I bet two lessons would raise your average at least 20 pins.

[Ball99999]

I'm not going to worry about getting a coach. There isn't one in my area anyway. I like to figure out things for myself anyway. I got my speed up.

[Hampe]

If you like to figure things out for yourself so much, why are you asking so many questions here?

I agree with Bill.....just one lesson with a coach will make a huge difference....it will help a lot more than any forum user, book, website, or youtube video ever will.

I spent an hour with a real coach last week for the first time...all he changed was my arm swing (was muscling too much) and the timing of my steps (to match the new swing). I bowled a tournament this weekend using the new approach and bowled 25 pins over my season average. It really helps.

[Ball99999]

If you like to figure things out for yourself so much, why are you asking so many questions here?

I agree with Bill.....just one lesson with a coach will make a huge difference....it will help a lot more than any forum user, book, website, or youtube video ever will.

I spent an hour with a real coach last week for the first time...all he changed was my arm swing (was muscling too much) and the timing of my steps (to match the new swing). I bowled a tournament this weekend using the new approach and bowled 25 pins over my season average. It really helps.

Well figuring stuff out for myself = researching the internet, asking questions here. I take every single piece of the pie and analyze it and discuss it otherwise things won't make sense to me.

The goal isn't for me to get my average up. I could care less. If I was able to get a predictable, adjustable approach swing and release, then the average will go up anyway.
The fun for me in this isn't seeing high scores, it's figuring out things like it were a puzzle. It gives me something to think about 24/7. It's like a Rubik's Cube, solving it on your own or just reading the solutions manual.

[75lockwood]

Well figuring stuff out for myself = researching the internet, asking questions here. I take every single piece of the pie and analyze it and discuss it otherwise things won't make sense to me.

The goal isn't for me to get my average up. I could care less. If I was able to get a predictable, adjustable approach swing and release, then the average will go up anyway.
The fun for me in this isn't seeing high scores, it's figuring out things like it were a puzzle. It gives me something to think about 24/7. It's like a Rubik's Cube, solving it on your own or just reading the solutions manual.

If you want to get a predictable adjustable approach, swing and release then what you need to do is practice, it's as simple as that, Rome wasn't built in a day and you won't magically find the perfect approach, it takes hard work and practice. asking questions and what not on the internet can only get you so far, its hard to fix your form this way simply because you don't know what your doing wrong. having someone watch and critic your bowling is the best way to improve hands down, you may disagree and that's fine but in my opinion by asking as many questions as you do, you are just confusing yourself, you can't fix every part of your game piece by piece, you need to look at the whole picture.

Cheers

[Ball99999]

If you want to get a predictable adjustable approach, swing and release then what you need to do is practice, it's as simple as that, Rome wasn't built in a day and you won't magically find the perfect approach, it takes hard work and practice. asking questions and what not on the internet can only get you so far, its hard to fix your form this way simply because you don't know what your doing wrong. having someone watch and critic your bowling is the best way to improve hands down, you may disagree and that's fine but in my opinion by asking as many questions as you do, you are just confusing yourself, you can't fix every part of your game piece by piece, you need to look at the whole picture.

Cheers

But I do practice. I've never been good at sports but I've spent probably a couple hundred hours practicing in the past year. As much as I could afford anyway.

I just wish people would realize that everyone is different. I am completely different than any one of you and how I learn is how I learn. As is how I like to bowl. I don't want to use a dang hinge.

But this, RIGHT here, is what's enjoyable to me. Discussing this stuff is in itself a hobby for me.

Now would people stop using the phrase "so many questions" and get over it? Posting is free. No one has to read them either.

[75lockwood]

But I do practice. I've never been good at sports but I've spent probably a couple hundred hours practicing in the past year. As much as I could afford anyway.

I just wish people would realize that everyone is different. I am completely different than any one of you and how I learn is how I learn. As is how I like to bowl. I don't want to use a dang hinge.


T
But this, RIGHT here, is what's enjoyable to me. Discussing this stuff is in itself a hobby for me.

Now would people stop using the phrase "so many questions" and get over it? Posting is free. No one has to read them either.


This is understandable, i don't think anyone was trying to tell you how you MUST bowl, it was more that the most recent information showed that the hinge method has a lot of benefits, there is no right wrong way to bowl everyone should do what works for them, look at pro's like belmo, nothing about the 2 hand approach is conventional lol but it works for him (Man does it work) so thats how he does it.

the only thing i can suggest is not saying that people are wrong when they give advice, just simply say that i don't feel like that is for me, etc. that way everyone stays happy :cool:

[Ball99999]

This is understandable, i don't think anyone was trying to tell you how you MUST bowl, it was more that the most recent information showed that the hinge method has a lot of benefits, there is no right wrong way to bowl everyone should do what works for them, look at pro's like belmo, nothing about the 2 hand approach is conventional lol but it works for him (Man does it work) so thats how he does it.

the only thing i can suggest is not saying that people are wrong when they give advice, just simply say that i don't feel like that is for me, etc. that way everyone stays happy :cool:

But that's actually what I said. I said that ball height, higher=faster, lower=slower, isn't "incorrect" since it's different for everyone. But nooo.
THIS IS THE WAY IT'S DONE NOW AND ANY OTHER WAY IS INCORRECT etc.

[75lockwood]

But that's actually what I said. I said that ball height, higher=faster, lower=slower, isn't "incorrect" since it's different for everyone. But nooo.
THIS IS THE WAY IT'S DONE NOW AND ANY OTHER WAY IS INCORRECT etc.

If you assume that you should be using the hinge technique then yes, higher faster lower slower is wrong, but using a push away it is perfectly fine, i think this whole thing was a big misunderstanding.....

people have explained there opinion on the topic, what is the possible gain for continually disagreeing? it's not like you should be convincing them the right/wrong way, they will do what they think is the correct way just as you do.

[Ball99999]

If you assume that you should be using the hinge technique then yes, higher faster lower slower is wrong, but using a push away it is perfectly fine, i think this whole thing was a big misunderstanding.....

people have explained there opinion on the topic, what is the possible gain for continually disagreeing? it's not like you should be convincing them the right/wrong way, they will do what they think is the correct way just as you do.

It's not.. he has said the push away is bad and/or that you should control speed with feet. Again, I have to say it's different for everyone and their tastes and their bodies.

And to say that ohh I'm a novice so I don't know anything is ridiculous. I think I know how my own body is better than Kegel.

[75lockwood]

It's not.. he has said the push away is bad and/or that you should control speed with feet. Again, I have to say it's different for everyone and their tastes and their bodies.

And to say that ohh I'm a novice so I don't know anything is ridiculous. I think I know how my own body is better than Kegel.

The fact your missing is that Bill is discussing what has been found though studying many people, if it doesn't work for you then you are an outlier and that's fine, you have been given advice as to what has been found as the most beneficial way for the greatest number of people, if you feel its not for you then simply don't take the advice and move on. we don't need to get into this large argument over nothing.

[Ball99999]

The fact your missing is that Bill is discussing what has been found though studying many people, if it doesn't work for you then you are an outlier and that's fine, you have been given advice as to what has been found as the most beneficial way for the greatest number of people, if you feel its not for you then simply don't take the advice and move on. we don't need to get into this large argument over nothing.

But that's the very fact you are missing as well, what he is advising doesn't work for me, so I've not taken it and moved on. Look how he is reacting.

[75lockwood]

But that's the very fact you are missing as well, what he is advising doesn't work for me, so I've not taken it and moved on. Look how he is reacting.

Well, you have been discussing this with me for about an hour now so i don't think you have moved on LOL


Tbh i can see where bill is coming from, time after time he has suggested things to you and you flat out disagreed, it is understandable that he is annoyed at this point.

Can we all make up and be friends again? Please?

[Ball99999]

Well, you have been discussing this with me for about an hour now so i don't think you have moved on LOL


Tbh i can see where bill is coming from, time after time he has suggested things to you and you flat out disagreed, it is understandable that he is annoyed at this point.

Can we all make up and be friends again? Please?

Well like I said I enjoy talking on here.

It's not understandable that he got annoyed. If I disagreed it was for good reason and I was right.

I'm everyone's friend. I'm a nice guy.

[75lockwood]

Well like I said I enjoy talking on here.

It's not understandable that he got annoyed. If I disagreed it was for good reason and I was right.

I'm everyone's friend. I'm a nice guy.

In a situation like this i see nobody as "right", did any good come from any of this? no. so let us move on please.

[bowl1820]

I think the law of diminishing returns is kicking in here, so maybe a break is called for.

[Ball99999]

I think the law of diminishing returns is kicking in here, so maybe a break is called for.

Yes it has. But it's fun making sure every point is clarified. I'm one of the type of people that have to reply no matter what... sooo..no one reply to THIS message.

[75lockwood]

I think the law of diminishing returns is kicking in here, so maybe a break is called for.

Indeed,


Btw, i have been meaning to ask you a couple things, what does 1820 represent anyway? also, how do we get fancy with our signature's like you? Lol

[bowl1820]

Here I'll solve the problem of replies, I'll lock this thread.