Still confused on how to turn the ball

[Ball99999]

So far I have basically been turning my wrist like turning a doorknob.

But, am I supposed to instead try and lift the ball with my fingers to the side?

[UBowling]

Preferably you want your fingers on the back and underneath the ball and as you release the ball your fingers come up the side.

Try to think of it in different mechanics than what you might have been told before. Try to always keep the weight of the ball on the pad of your hand on your index finger. If that makes sense. As you bring the ball back on your backswing, have the ball weight on your index finger and as the ball gets to the top of the backswing and begins the downswing the ball needs to be rotated so your ring finger leads and the ball is again putting pressure on the index finger.

Try to make your ring finger always have the lead. If you go into your release with your ring finger in the lead, your hand should naturally turn the ball.

[Ball99999]

So do you feel like you're lifting with your fingers, like pulling them from under to up the side and up?
Right now I feel more like I'm using wrist action

[striker12]

ball99999 there's a drill ik that can help you with this it's the 1 step drill and you work on getting your hand under the ball but then another one could be on your knee soo your closer to the ground and jsut swing your arm 3 times and on the 3rd time coming forward push the ball and try to rev up the ball(best ball to use is a plastic ball finger tipped because u dont want to have any of your good balls going into the gutter and something happening to them but a plastic ball will still hook mostly when your on your knee cause your throw will be slow)

if you do the 1 step then go to a entry lvl ball cause there will be more speed then if you where on your knee.

[AngeloPD]

here you go man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&list=UU0oUPkQqn2z6G_Th1aE5GjQ&v=fr9lDk848-g&feature=endscreen

[billf]

As you can see, you have been having this issue since you registered here (and probably before that). Now you have gotten every possible way to get rotation explained. At some point your mind and body will have to be too confused and end up with some kind of hybrid mess. So my suggestion today is the same as yesterday, go get a lesson with a coach. The more you wait, the more confused you will keep getting.

[Zothen]

You can always try the football method. Take a football and throw an underhand spiral! This simulates the ball coming off your hand.

Zothen

[Ball99999]

You can always try the football method. Take a football and throw an underhand spiral! This simulates the ball coming off your hand.

Zothen

I don't have a football but the problem remains, I can see the same result in videos but not be clear on which muscles are being used.. are people using their wrist to turn, like a doorknob, and then letting the arm push the fingers through the ball... or is there no wrist muscle action and instead the fingers are PULLING the ball up and around the side?

[AngeloPD]

I don't have a football but the problem remains, I can see the same result in videos but not be clear on which muscles are being used.. are people using their wrist to turn, like a doorknob, and then letting the arm push the fingers through the ball... or is there no wrist muscle action and instead the fingers are PULLING the ball up and around the side?

you can buy a football for $5-$15?

[Ball99999]

you can buy a football for $5-$15?

Not really going to be useful. I have the basic motion down. Again it's figuring out whether or not the muscles are being used in the fingers, or the muscle in the wrist and letting the fingers flow through the ball.

The way Norm Duke bowls (The way I like, and not with the hinge or heavy cup/cock), looks like he basically just rotates his wrist and lets his arm/fingers flow through the ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eTdmONtZohY#t=29s

This really clarifies one release for me.
That has worked well for me before I think I just have to practice it.

I've also seen completely different releases like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=70V3oPLqHlA#t=23s

It looks more like it's just an uncock/uncup and not much wrist/finger turn. So much harder to do than it looks though.

[AngeloPD]

if you want more revs then try the second video you posted or try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQr22IQnmZk

[Ball99999]

if you want more revs then try the second video you posted or try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQr22IQnmZk

Yeah.. I can seem to do that on my carpet but when I'm swinging it it's soo hard.

[AngeloPD]

try one small swing when your in the bowling alley. do the foul line drill.

read these articles thoroughly! do not skip and read it word for word! trust, this helped me improve my game!
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip35.htm
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip36.htm
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip37.htm
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip38.htm

[Zothen]

you should be putting side roll by bringing your index finger at 12 o'clock and your middle & ring fingers at 3 o'clock. So yes you would be lifting with your middle & ring fingers. It is more of a handshake with your index finger ending up by your ear as oppose to turning a knob.

Zothen

[Ball99999]

you should be putting side roll by bringing your index finger at 12 o'clock and your middle & ring fingers at 3 o'clock. So yes you would be lifting with your middle & ring fingers. It is more of a handshake with your index finger ending up by your ear as oppose to turning a knob.

Zothen

Are you sure about those clock positions... this is more how I have it during the swing

http://i.imgur.com/F2B4j.png

and then bringing the middle fingers to around 3.

[75lockwood]

If I may, i think you are trying to get way to complex with how you bowl, the way norm duke release's the ball is great.. for norm duke, trying to mimic the release will simply not work, the reason it works for them is they spend years and years practicing that one thing, there is no "secret" perfect bowling release, if you want to gain accuracy and in turn get higher scores you need to pick something and practice it over and over. trying something new every week because of a new suggestion on here will never get you anywhere.


Not really going to be useful. I have the basic motion down. Again it's figuring out whether or not the muscles are being used in the fingers, or the muscle in the wrist and letting the fingers flow through the ball.

I can guarantee you do not have the "basic motion" down, if you did you would be able to easily bowl above 200, I'm a 170 average bowler and i don't kid myself into thinking that i can do the basics flawlessly.

[Ball99999]

If I may, i think you are trying to get way to complex with how you bowl, the way norm duke release's the ball is great.. for norm duke, trying to mimic the release will simply not work, the reason it works for them is they spend years and years practicing that one thing, there is no "secret" perfect bowling release, if you want to gain accuracy and in turn get higher scores you need to pick something and practice it over and over. trying something new every week because of a new suggestion on here will never get you anywhere.



I can guarantee you do not have the "basic motion" down, if you did you would be able to easily bowl above 200, I'm a 170 average bowler and i don't kid myself into thinking that i can do the basics flawlessly.

No, I really do. As in I know how it's done, I can do it with my hand without a ball in it. I can't do it as well in an actual swing w/a ball.

I do bowl above 200 quite often... it's not a total stretch.
These days I have more thumb issues than release issues. And spare issues too.

There is a difference between knowing and doing.. I can't "do" anything in bowling flawlessly.

Btw ignore my initial question I think I have that part figured out.

[75lockwood]

There is a difference between knowing and doing.. I can't "do" anything in bowling flawlessly.

Exactly! that's the biggest problem with doing everything online, you can learn the theory great, but when it comes to actually bowling you need to practice practice practice!


I see this every day i bowl, i leave wood standing, i know exactly HOW to make the spare, but making it is another thing entirely Lol

[Ball99999]

Exactly! that's the biggest problem with doing everything online, you can learn the theory great, but when it comes to actually bowling you need to practice practice practice!


I see this every day i bowl, i leave wood standing, i know exactly HOW to make the spare, but making it is another thing entirely Lol

Yes I love to practice to. I do SOOOO much better when I practice by myself than in leagues. I find that more enjoyable I think, the personal experience. Like golf.

So with a league taking my funds and bowling alleys being so far away it's hard for me to practice as much now so I have to mental practice.

[75lockwood]

Yes I love to practice to. I do SOOOO much better when I practice by myself than in leagues. I find that more enjoyable I think, the personal experience. Like golf.

So with a league taking my funds and bowling alleys being so far away it's hard for me to practice as much now so I have to mental practice.

I can respect this, but over thinking everything can kill you, trying to absorb as much knowledge as possible is a good thing, but when it comes to practice you have all these different idea's running though your head you can end up not improving anything.


NEW RESEARCH TOPIC: How to build a Bowling lane in your basement for under $500 LOL

[bowl1820]

I agree with 75 and the others who have said it, your over thinking everything and making how you bowl too complex. Your questions are all over the map, your trying to change so many things all at once.

Also there is just so far you can go with reading about how to bowl. If you keep having trouble with everything, you are at the point where you need someone on the lane to help you.

You are in Cali. there are plenty of coaches around there, one lesson is cheaper than a new ball and does more. If you don't get a coach, just ask around at the bowling lanes. The Pro there might help or might could recommend another bowler that might give you some pointers.

But 75 has it right it takes practice, pick one thing and work on that before moving on to something new.

[Ball99999]

I agree with 75 and the others who have said it, your over thinking everything and making how you bowl too complex. Your questions are all over the map, your trying to change so many things all at once.

Also there is just so far you can go with reading about how to bowl. If you keep having trouble with everything, you are at the point where you need someone on the lane to help you.

You are in Cali. there are plenty of coaches around there, one lesson is cheaper than a new ball and does more. If you don't get a coach, just ask around at the bowling lanes. The Pro there might help or might could recommend another bowler that might give you some pointers.

But 75 has it right it takes practice, pick one thing and work on that before moving on to something new.

They don't all translate into changes. Discussing this stuff on forums is what I enjoy doing. It's part of the hobby for me.

I have to emphasize that I don't need a coach at this point. I understand what I do wrong when I do it, it just takes practice.
Also I've mentioned a few times I've had coaches before. In fact they were the cause of problems. All I'm asking is that people don't keep suggesting a coach anymore. And if they don't like questions or topics, that's how the internet works. They read the topic and if they don't like it they don't have to read it.

[75lockwood]

They don't all translate into changes. Discussing this stuff on forums is what I enjoy doing. It's part of the hobby for me.

I have to emphasize that I don't need a coach at this point. I understand what I do wrong when I do it, it just takes practice.

I think that's a big part of whats missing here, I think everyone is under the assumption that every topic is regarding something you are looking to change and not that its a simple discussion, when a bowler with a lower average starts discussing cup/uncup cock/uncock the instinct is that this person is trying to do something that is a lot more complex than what they are capable of at this stage in there bowling career.

It's great to learn, perhaps mark on posts that you just want to discuss theoretical rather that looking for help on a specific issue.

[UBowling]

I don't have a football but the problem remains, I can see the same result in videos but not be clear on which muscles are being used.. are people using their wrist to turn, like a doorknob, and then letting the arm push the fingers through the ball... or is there no wrist muscle action and instead the fingers are PULLING the ball up and around the side?

It isn't really a wrist action movement that you want to go for. Maybe after bowling for a few years and you have gotten a really solid release you can experiment with this and start getting more revs, but for now I would suggest staying away from any major wrist movement, it could cause problems you don't want to deal with. Typically the wrist put the ball in the position that you need for your hand to do the work. In a strong wrist position you can really get your fingers and hand under the ball for the most leverage and your fingers do the work of lifting and turning the ball.

[noeymc]

everyone needs a coach even pros have coach's

[martinezsam2495]

This guy is just asking for attention.. Obviously he doesn't listen to any of the useful posts, and is changing his question to accommodate his knowledge. If he doesn't want to listen to you guys, just ignore him..

[Zothen]

I was taught to keep my hand under the ball(4,6,7 0'clock). Index finger pointing at 4 o'clock,middle & ring fingers at 6 o'clock and pinky at 7 o'clock. I tried it the way you showed in the pic,but,it was very uncomfortable and painfull so this is how I was taught.

When I said 12 o'clock,etc I was refering to your hand after you have released the ball.

Zothen

[AZBowla]

I think you've got it right in that you simply have to practice more. No amount of coaching or watching release videos or reading posts in here will train your brain to turn your hand the way you're supposed to - only practice can do that, and a bunch of it. You're in a league so part of the deal should be discounts on practice games. Take advantage of that, and stay in that league because that's the closest thing to entering a competition that you can get for the money. Enter a tournament too if you can, who cares if you place dead last. The experience you'll walk away with will be worth the entry fee. Becoming a better bowler is an investment in both time and money. The more you spend on it (especially the time) the more you'll get from it. I know money is tight, I'm in the same boat, but I'm sure if you look at what you're spending money on, you can find things you can do without so that you'll have more money for bowling. That's what I've had to do, because I too want to become a better bowler and someday be able to enter tournaments so that this rather expensive hobby can start hopefully paying for itself someday. ;)

[Big Nick]

I'll go ahead and toss in my 2 cents.

I set my wrist position before my swing ever starts, and I do the best to keep it in that position throughout my swing and release. There is little bit of a wrist turn that takes place after my thumb exits the ball and before my fingers exit, but it's a fraction of a second and a very small movement. I find that if I put my wrist in the right position before starting my swing that I don't even have to think about turning my wrist... it just happens. I just have to make sure to consistently release the ball at the bottom of my swing since I have a tendency to hang onto it for a little too long.

I know that you've said that you don't want coaching right now, and I completely understand that. I was in a similar situation when I started practicing for my first league back at the beginning of the summer. I was averaging around 130 and I was having a really tough time finding any consistency. I did some reading online and found that I was throwing a full-roller, and I set about teaching myself to throw a semi-roller. I read about wrist turns and finger positions and cupping the ball and none of it helped. Not knowing any better, I was trying my best to do what I had read but I was doing it all wrong..... There aren't many wrong ways to throw a bowling ball, but I had definitely found one. Disgusted with my worsening performance, I decided to bite the bullet and get a lesson from the pro at the local lanes.... I mean, what could it hurt for one $35 lesson. It helped a ton because I had another set of eyes to look at what I was doing wrong and tell me what I needed to do to correct it. Since the first lesson, I've had four more which brings the grand total for coaching to $175. I couldn't even tell you how much I've spent practicing, but it's a heck of a lot more than the 5 lessons cost me. However, without the coaching, I wouldn't have known what I needed to work on and I doubt I'd be much better now than I was five months ago.

[bowl1820]

With the spill over of the other thread, I think this thread has hit the law of diminishing returns also. I'm locking it , lets move on people.