Lucid surface question

[MICHAEL]

I am getting way too much left turn down at the pocket! I have polished it, and it kicks even more at the end of the alley! If I am looking for a more gradual hook into the pocket with the LUCID, what surface prep, would one recommend?

I have a spinner, Pad, Polish ect… This Lucid is the first ball I have had to stand just left of center, and throw 3rd arrow. Most ball’s including my DV8 terror I stand board 5 and shoot second arrow for a nice hook into the pocket. This ball is drilled with the pin center of my finger holes, and its hard for me to keep in the pocket! What will reduce the amout of hook at the back end? I was thinking of going 1000, or 2000, and taking the polish off?

Again looking for a nice controlled ark into the pocket, nothing radical!

At the moment it has the original 4000, and high polish that I added! Hooked way to much for me, even with more speed.

[noeymc]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/9/prweb9902430.htm

if i am not mistaken the ball was made to do that with the core sorry :( i dont know alot about sanding the balls or nothing

[JaMau24]

Adding polish will make the ball hook later. If you want it to hook sooner, 500 grit would make it hook sooner, but also make it hook more because there is more surface. I would probably go 1500, or 2000 with no polish.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Ball99999]

I am getting way too much left turn down at the pocket! I have polished it, and it kicks even more at the end of the alley! If I am looking for a more gradual hook into the pocket with the LUCID, what surface prep, would one recommend?

I have a spinner, Pad, Polish ect… This Lucid is the first ball I have had to stand just left of center, and throw 3rd arrow. Most ball’s including my DV8 terror I stand board 5 and shoot second arrow for a nice hook into the pocket. This ball is drilled with the pin center of my finger holes, and its hard for me to keep in the pocket! What will reduce the amout of hook at the back end? I was thinking of going 1000, or 2000, and taking the polish off?

Again looking for a nice controlled ark into the pocket, nothing radical!

At the moment it has the original 4000, and high polish that I added! Hooked way to much for me, even with more speed.

I'm thinking you might want to sand it if you want it to have a more gradual hook.

If you stand on 5 and shoot to 10, would that really be a hook or a straight ball?

[Zothen]

I would try the ball either at 3000 or 4000 without the polish. Instead of 3rd arrow try 2nd arrow! Also are you bowling on a dry or oiled lane?

Zothen

[MICHAEL]

Ok,,, I can stand far left and aim third arrow on the right and it will hook into the pocket, but notConsistently. I have a much more predictable path into the pocket when I stand right board 5, and aim around second arrow.

Its not (at all a straight ball, it has hook believe me, but more like the Norm Duke style, (only without the perfection that he lays the ball down) LOL! I would say if you look at Norm, when he is throwing from the right, and aiming second arrow, that’s my best angle for a high game.

My only 298, last year, and few times I have had 289s, and 290s have been standing between first and second dots, and aiming second arrow, but with the LUCID the ball has a radical kick to the left of pocket just before hitting the pins. I have heard that the LUCID is very changeable, just wondering how do I take that sharp edge off, and have a more gradual hook? (Maybe I purchased the wrong ball?)
Maybe a Frantic would have been a better choice for STANDARD HOUSE patterns league play! I am not talking about sports patterns, just the typical house.

[75lockwood]

The Problem with this would be given the lucid's high hook potential going straight up would result in a huge over hook hitting closer to the left gutter than the right pocket.

[MICHAEL]

OK,,, remember I am new to bowling,,,!! Started at 61,,,,! I stand for my best shot between 5 and ten, and aim right on second arrow! I do move left as the oil wears out from guys like The Dude, to the 20 board area! I just have with my stroker game, and the way the ball is drilled too much kick at the end for MY style of bowling. sure I can stand with this ball on board 40, and shoot between 20 and 15, but not a very accurate method for me. It looks pretty doing its thing and hooking big, but not the best angle for me. I want to stand around 7, and shoot 10. Can I take some of that radical kick out, and make the ball hook more gradual, by changing the surface. thanks for any and all help.

[noeymc]

play in the oil a little bit or closer to it

[Hampe]

I'm not a pro shop guy or anything, but the way I understand it, getting a sharp or gradual hook has more to do with the drilling than with just changing the surface of the ball. Did you discuss what ball motion you wanted with your driller when you gave it to him?

[bowl1820]

What will reduce the amout of hook at the back end? I was thinking of going 1000, or 2000, and taking the polish off?.

You have the right idea here Mike. Dulling the surface down some will even out the reaction.
You can go to a lower grit without polish see how it doe's, if that's too much you can also go to a lower with polish on top of that to help get you through the heads if needed.


Remember:
A sanded ball hooks less, but hooks earlier than a smooth ball. (It evens out the reaction)
A smooth ball hooks more, but hooks later than a sanded ball.

[The Mayor]

Take a look at Control-It polish from Brunswick. It adds length and reduces backend reaction. However, you have other bowling balls that have less hook. I'd keep the Lucid as is for when you need more hook!

[Zothen]

Polish balls-More length,more snap in backend
No polish- Rolls early,less hook in backend

I would take the polish off the ball and that should give you a smoother arc to the pocket.

Zothen

[MICHAEL]

I'm not a pro shop guy or anything, but the way I understand it, getting a sharp or gradual hook has more to do with the drilling than with just changing the surface of the ball. Did you discuss what ball motion you wanted with your driller when you gave it to him?

That makes a lot of sense! OOOOPS!!!! LOL O, well I Adapt! I don’t have a weight hole, I wonder if I had one drilled in the right location could this help tame the hook!?

[UBowling]

According to the USBC ball motion study, the surface of the ball accounts for almost 70% of the total ball motion. That means what the coverstock is made of and the condition that it is in will have the most effect.

If you want a smooth reaction you will need to sand the surface. I would say smoothen it out by sanding with a 500 grit abralon, then 1000 and then 2000. That should create a nice dull surface that calms down the reaction at the back end.

[MICHAEL]

Some fantastic advice!! Thanks to all of you, I am a work in progress! I have learned lots of GREAT information on this website. All I know is I love the sport, and like the Marines, “Be All You Can Be”, I want to beat JASON,,, THE DUDE, as much as possible!! LOL…!! On a good day, on house oil, I would put him up against anyone in this area! Some times on a bad day, I just let him beat me,,,, ((( but please don’t tell him!?!? THANKS))!! I also enjoy going to Bowlingboard.com for all the GREAT ARTICLES and equipment ect.. I have ordered some things from them. Fair price and great products!
I was thinking of getting a good pair of Dexter Shoes, so that I can learn to slide! Would order from Bowlingboard.com, but afraid that they might not fit, and might turn into a back and forth thing. I wear a 12 in most shoes, but some brands of shoes I wear a 12 ½, or 13. In the Kansas City MO area, there is no shoe shop that I have found that has the top of the line Dexters. Does anyone know if the Dexters interchangeable sole shoes fit smaller or slightly larger than most shoes. Is there a place in Kansas city where I can try them on? Any advice on shoes!
I think in order to give JASON, owner of the NEW nightmare, competition, I am going to have to learn the art of slide!

[MICHAEL]

Take a look at Control-It polish from Brunswick. It adds length and reduces backend reaction. However, you have other bowling balls that have less hook. I'd keep the Lucid as is for when you need more hook!

Good point!! But I bowl the same two AMF'S and the oil is always standard house patters..

[MICHAEL]

Take a look at Control-It polish from Brunswick. It adds length and reduces backend reaction. However, you have other bowling balls that have less hook. I'd keep the Lucid as is for when you need more hook!


So many things affect the properties of HOW A BALL reacts!
1. How its drilled
2. Type of ball
3. Surface of ball
4. Condition you keep your ball in, cleaning ect.
5. Style of bowling, stoker, ect ect.
6. Oil on lanes, humidity, temperature , ect.

Many times bowlers blame the ball, when its as simple as forgetting to have lift, follow through, and hitting YOU MARK! I have a great appreciation for bowling, the more I learn! Did I forget anything.

I hear people say all the time, I want a ball that takes a 90 degree turn into the pocket, but I am finding out that MORE hook, MORE angle is not the key! Control and just the right amount of angle into the pocket is the KEY TO HIGH SCORES. I have heard Crankers, say ( like cough *Jason* cough), I want the most radical hook strong end drilling and ball that’s out there! Whereas in my humble opinion, that is just what Jason doesn’t need! He has been clocked at 2500 rpms on his ball! He can hook a plastic ball big!

O well what does one of his good friends know! ( You can’t tell a young kid anything)! I think if drilled properly, a Frantic would be a great ball for young Jason! Lol

[75lockwood]

that is just what Jason doesn’t need! He has been clocked at 2500 rpms on his ball!

2500rpm + nightmare = spinning in circles going down the lane

[Hampe]

According to the USBC ball motion study, the surface of the ball accounts for almost 70% of the total ball motion. That means what the coverstock is made of and the condition that it is in will have the most effect.Wasn't that study done with balls that are drilled with the same layout though? Like I said before I'm no expert, but it seems to me how a ball is drilled has more effect on motion than it's coverstock.

Depending on how they're drilled, a light-medium oil ball can out-hook a ball made for heavy oil.

[Ball99999]

Most ball’s including my DV8 terror I stand board 5 and shoot second arrow for a nice hook into the pocket.



Could you please clarify this point for me please. Is your left foot on board 5?

[bowl1820]

Wasn't that study done with balls that are drilled with the same layout though? Like I said before I'm no expert, but it seems to me how a ball is drilled has more effect on motion than it's coverstock.

While the layout and the size and location of a balance hole (and ball chosen) determine the shape of the breakpoint. By adjusting the surface texture as is being suggested here, you can fine tune the reaction.

By sanding a ball it will smooth out the balls reaction some, so if you have a ball being too angular, it will reduce the angle some.

By changing the surface you can move the breakpoint closer to foul line or closer to the pins.



Depending on how they're drilled, a light-medium oil ball can out-hook a ball made for heavy oil.

But not on the same conditions.

[Hampe]

While the layout and the size and location of a balance hole (and ball chosen) determine the shape of the breakpoint. By adjusting the surface texture as is being suggested here, you can fine tune the reaction.Sure....I'm not trying to say that coverstock has no influence, just that how a ball is drilled has more of an influence.


But not on the same conditions.I'd agree if you said not on "certain" conditions. But I'm pretty sure it would hold true on the same THS.

[MICHAEL]

[QUOTE=Ball99999;61336]Could you please clarify this point for me please. Is your left foot on board 5?[/QUOTE

That would be my right heel. I put my right heel on five/seven on fresh oil, then move toward the left as the oil breaks down, winding up at around 15. I always aim at 9/10/11 board! I found out that with the Lucid and standing at 40, I can aim at 15/10 and get a nice hook back into the pocket, but not very consistent! I also when using this delivery, have to throw the ball at a much reduced speed, soft touch.
So it’s a little harder to do repeatedly!

[bowl1820]

I'd agree if you said not on "certain" conditions. But I'm pretty sure it would hold true on the same THS.

How about instead of "certain" conditions why don't we say.

"Depending on how they're drilled, a light-medium oil ball can out-hook a ball made for heavy oil, on the conditions it was designed for."

[75lockwood]

"Depending on how they're drilled, a light-medium oil ball can out-hook a ball made for heavy oil, on the conditions it was designed for."

Can you explain the reasoning behind this a bit more? is it due to the heavy oil ball loosing energy on the lighter oil conditions? or?

[Zothen]

Sometimes your weakest ball is your strongest ball! I think bowl1820 is refering to the friction being built up more in a light-medium oil ball,then a heavy oil ball. Not 100% sure,but,I do know that my pro shop always tells me that if a high end ball is'nt working,then try an entry level ball and vice versa.

Zothen

[bowl1820]

Can you explain the reasoning behind this a bit more? is it due to the heavy oil ball loosing energy on the lighter oil conditions? or?

The longer a ball skids, the more energy it retains because it is not losing as much energy to friction. This will allow the ball to have a stronger reaction down the lane.

A heavy oil/dull ball will see friction early, so when used on a condition it wasn't meant for like a dryer pattern. It will see that friction and start transitioning too early.

A lot of the time when this happens the ball will look weak, that's why when you go to a light oil/shiny ball it will see the friction later on that same pattern. The transition will happen later and it will have a stronger reaction.

[bowl1820]

Did some looking here's the order list, this has to do with the first transition (skid phase to the hook phase)

The order of which has the stronger influence
1. surface
2. total differential
3. drilling angle
4. RG


The thing is All those variables contribute to the length of the first transition. As for the O.P.'s question sanding it some can smooth out the reaction.

[75lockwood]

The longer a ball skids, the more energy it retains because it is not losing as much energy to friction. This will allow the ball to have a stronger reaction down the lane.

A heavy oil/dull ball will see friction early, so when used on a condition it wasn't meant for like a dryer pattern. It will see that friction and start transitioning too early.

A lot of the time when this happens the ball will look weak, that's why when you go to a light oil/shiny ball it will see the friction later on that same pattern. The transition will happen later and it will have a stronger reaction.

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense.

[Hampe]

Did some looking here's the order list, this has to do with the first transition (skid phase to the hook phase)

The order of which has the stronger influence
1. surface
2. total differential
3. drilling angle
4. RG

Alright....well, like I said I'm no pro, so I'll take your word for it ;)