New video.....same old, same old???

[coachkapps]

I've taped myself a few times and although my scores have changed for the better, I'm not sure my technique has changed much. I've tried to get to my wrist in a stronger position, but looking at the video, it still seems weak/on top of ball. I'm looking for tips or help there. I just can't seem to keep my wrist strong or my hand behind the ball. So frustrated! I know I'm still falling off the shot a little on the new video, but I haven't been doing that as much lately. Might be because I hurry to get out of the way of the camera?

Tempo is another issue. The new vids are hard to tell because I zoomed in a bit to see hand position. Thoughts?

Any advice or tips are 100% welcome.

I'm at 195 average in my league. My last 4 practice sessions I've averaged 220 (9 games), 202 (8 games), 217 (8 games), and 207 (13 games) for a 211.5 for 38 games. I'm honestly not sure how the hell I bowl that well after watching myself on video. As a coach myself, I critique things a lot and enjoy learning and improving.

Old video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Dcy0aTFxA

New video
Rear view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELg1rkK5q7o&feature=youtu.be
Side view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKjcIw6DCoM&feature=youtu.be

[Zothen]

Your form seems much better in new video then old video. Wish you had a longer video(5 min) so we have a better look. I don't see anything wrong,your footwork and armswing seem to be nice and easy. You could try holding ball at 45 degree and use your arm like a pendulam on a grandfather clock.

Zothen

[Tampabaybob]

Excellent video shots. Your approach looks very, very good, until that last step/slide. The ball is in a strong position next to your slide leg which is exactly where you want it to be. I'd say you need to work on getting that right leg (toe) on the floor and be able to hold that balanced position until the ball drops off of the pin deck. Being totally balanced will definitely give you more leverage and allow to to feel various aspect s of your swing and release. You can't feel those things that much now because of being off balance. Try it and you should feel a difference. Other than that everything else looks real good.

Bob

[kmf]

You suffer from early turn. In your down swing your hand is on the outer half of the ball. Like you mentioned, you're not staying behind it. Try setting up on the inside half of the ball to compensate. Maybe borrow a wrist brace and use as a trainer to learn how to maintain a stronger wrist position? Or maybe you will be far enough under the ball once you stay behind it long enough. Get the balance leg down and you will look "text book".

[billf]

Try to keep your index finger pointing towards your target. This should help you stay behind the ball much longer. Do I even need to add to the balance leg bandwagon? Good improvement coach!

[coachkapps]

Thanks so much everyone.

How do I keep that leg down? More slide leg knee bend I would think.

[coachkapps]

So I tried to work on two things:
1) Trail leg staying lower for better balance
2) Keeping my hand behind the ball

I don't feel like I was all that successful with the hand but I found many times that I was keeping my leg down a bit better. How do I keep my hand under/behind the ball? I've tried cupping my wrist and I'm not sure I have the strength. Whenever I try that I also struggle to get my thumb out clean. I feel like I'm struggling with squeezing, dropping, muscling, etc. I think it's time for a lesson. Matt McNeil is one of my proshop guys (Carl Fietek the other). He keeps telling me to invest in lessons. I agree. I just can't find the time.

Side view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ELm4MWvPk&feature=youtu.be

Rear view (3):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnTSAuusIfw&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjUoR6B2aoo&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQK1_sGGQE0&feature=youtu.be

I managed to bowl a 761 series...246, 269, 246!

[noeymc]

nice bowling

[Tampabaybob]

GREAT JOB !! You've got the toe down and from the looks of your scores you're there ! As far as staying under the ball, watched the video a couple more times and kept stopping it throughout your swing. You're starting off in the correct position and as far as I can see you're holding through your 3rd step. What it looks like is an early release. In other words, you're beginning to turn the ball just a split second too early. What you want to try to do is hold your thumb outside just a little longer than what you're doing now. That should prevent you from going over the top of the ball. At release and follow through your thumb should be almost straight up to the ceiling allowing your fingers and wrist to do all of the work. Other than that.......your looking good. It's nice to explain something to someone and see those types of results.

Bob

[J Anderson]

So I tried to work on two things:
1) Trail leg staying lower for better balance
2) Keeping my hand behind the ball

I don't feel like I was all that successful with the hand but I found many times that I was keeping my leg down a bit better. How do I keep my hand under/behind the ball? I've tried cupping my wrist and I'm not sure I have the strength. Whenever I try that I also struggle to get my thumb out clean. I feel like I'm struggling with squeezing, dropping, muscling, etc. I think it's time for a lesson. Matt McNeil is one of my proshop guys (Carl Fietek the other). He keeps telling me to invest in lessons. I agree. I just can't find the time.

Side view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ELm4MWvPk&feature=youtu.be

Rear view (3):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnTSAuusIfw&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjUoR6B2aoo&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQK1_sGGQE0&feature=youtu.be

I managed to bowl a 761 series...246, 269, 246!

Your balance looks much better than the first video.

Cupping the ball does take more effort. Norm Duke says in his instructional video that most of the time he doesn't cup the ball. Perhaps what you need to work on is just starting with a firm straight wrist and maintaining that position through the release and releasing at the right time. You know what they say, 'Timing is everything'.

[Tampabaybob]

Your balance looks much better than the first video.

Cupping the ball does take more effort. Norm Duke says in his instructional video that most of the time he doesn't cup the ball. Perhaps what you need to work on is just starting with a firm straight wrist and maintaining that position through the release and releasing at the right time. You know what they say, 'Timing is everything'.

Most of the pros, that is the guys that are most like a stroker, will usually only cock their wrist to change the side axis roll on the ball. The guys that crank it usually cup it.

Bob

[kmf]

Hello Coach. What helps me stay behind and slightly under the ball is keeping my index finger KNUCKLE facing my target. I tried just the finger as my dad suggested but I wasn't getting undr enough. Now under the ball refers to being at least down below the mid-point. You don't necessarily have to be totally under the ball as some people do.
And since when is a 700+ series a struggle? Great shooting!

[Hammer]

I wish that I had problems with my bowling like you do and only bowl a 246, 269 and 246. It only goes to show you that no matter what we average in this game we all need some kind of improvement. Good luck getting things ironed out. Nice games.

[Tampabaybob]

Hello Coach. What helps me stay behind and slightly under the ball is keeping my index finger KNUCKLE facing my target. I tried just the finger as my dad suggested but I wasn't getting undr enough. Now under the ball refers to being at least down below the mid-point. You don't necessarily have to be totally under the ball as some people do.
And since when is a 700+ series a struggle? Great shooting!


One thing I use is a slight pressure on my index finger on the surface of the ball. It also points towards the pins as well. It will change the reaction of the ball just a bit and sometimes can help when other tricks/changes will not. try it next time yo bowl and see if you notice a bit of a difference. Just a slight pressure, don't push too hard.

Bob

[coachkapps]

Stayed down MUCH better last night in league, especially the 2nd and 3rd games. First game I struggled, 151 with a few splits and opens. Second and third game I found a line, kept my trail leg down better and shot 201 and 257. Won 2 of 3 and team won 21/30 and hopefully we stay in first place.

I have tried the index finger pressure/pointing to the pis. I continue to struggle with the sensation that I'm squeezing the ball a titch or I end up dropping it. Sometimes when I turn my fingers to 7/8 with thumb to the right and index finger to pins, the ball slips off my thumb early and I lose my balance.

[Tampabaybob]

Good bowling. First game problems usually is trying to find a line. I know have those problems before myself. Glad you were able to stay down. Do you think that's helping you? As far as the pressure with your index finger, don't press too hard. It should be a light pressure so it won't interfere with the grip pressure. Try it again and if it doesn't work for you don't use it.

Turning your fingers to the 7-8 position shouldn't have any bearing on your ability to hold onto the ball. If you have the right fit you should be able to execute several hand positions without fear of dropping it. If you feel you losing it because of your thumb, throw a piece of tape in your thumb hole for added grip.

Bob

[coachkapps]

I definitely feel like the leg down helped. I'm excited to have that kind of in my possession now. Now I move forward with the grip/release. I can snif a 700 in the near future in league.

I'll try that finger/thumb turn/grip. I tend to stick a little when the thumbhole is a bit tighter. I actually use thunder tape on the side of my thumb and also when I get a little nervous or things stick, I use a little slide powder. Yikes.....(?)