ball speed question

[Scojoy]

I'm having trouble getting my ball speed up and my DV8 is hooking off the lane. I could probably try a more central approach to keep it in the oil, but at my house its a gamble how dry the lanes are going to be. Everyone one who watches me bowl says my backswing should be longer (higher?), but when I try to get the ball higher in my back swing I tend to throw it way right and usually its gutterville. Any idea why this happens ? Would this be a common thing to happen if someone is trying to get the ball higher? It does give me more speed but I usually look like the fool. thanks guys

[noeymc]

you are probably forcing your back swing and you lose accuracy can i ask where u stand now and whats your mark?

[LonelyBowler]

Don't swing the ball, just let it drop! No muscle!
It's all about good TIMING, that's what causes higher speed.

[Greenday]

I've started to do exercises in working the free swing. I set the ball out, then just let my arm swing freely back, then up. Better ball speeds, my ball is getting more length before snapping into the pocket. A lot less tension in my shoulder too.

[MICHAEL]

Don't swing the ball, just let it drop! No muscle!
It's all about good TIMING, that's what causes higher speed.


VERY good advice, I had a bad habit of muscleing the ball! I still do it way to much, and when I do it hurts my aiming! I miss my mark more often. Push the ball away from your body, and let the natural movement give you the speed you need... their are some great threads here that will make it much more clear! Good luck

[Zothen]

Your forcing the ball to do something your body doesn't want to do. Your trying to create faster ball speed by having a higher armswing,but,you are not in rythm with your foot work. My advice is to forget more ball speed and concentrate more on consistancy and accuracy. I suggest getting a ball for the dryer conditions you bowl on. I would also give the central approach a try and I highly recommend getting The Game Changer by Mark Baker.

Zothen

[Scojoy]

you are probably forcing your back swing and you lose accuracy can i ask where u stand now and whats your mark?

I stand at the forward marks, r foot on 30 board, aiming between 2nd and 3rd arrow. approx 14th board.

[noeymc]

try moving 5 -7 boards left and aim between 3rd and middle angle you will hit more oil delaying the hook part see if that helps if not i would adj just the balls surface

[scottymoney]

As said before don't try to create more speed that will make you less accurate. I am around 18mph, when my ball speed goes over 18 the ball starts going everywhere. A guy on my team I would venture to say never throws the ball over 13mph on a fast day and he strikes so much. Keep your ball speed where it is and just move left to a bit more oil as noeymc said.

[swingset]

If you're hooking off the lane, no matter the ball speed, you have too much ball for the conditions.

If you're intent on creating more speed without forcing the ball, dropping your opposite shoulder on the backswing will generate a higher/faster swing and ball speed, but it comes at the cost of a harder to control shoulder and arm pendulum. Pros do it, but that's because they're pros.

[Scojoy]

Thanks all, will try to maybe rev less and keep it in the middle of the lane

[billf]

Wow I'm shocked. Not one response about where real ball speed comes from. Read 'The Game Changer', watch Norm Duke's bowling competitively video, check most websites and they all say the same thing. Increase your foot speed. Easier said than done to keep proper timing but ball speed is generated from the legs. Adjusting the ball in the stance helps correct the timing.
How high is your back swing currently?

[Scojoy]

You know Bill, I was just thinking of setting up my video camera to determine that. Not anywhere near horizontal I'm sure. Maybe I should start farther back at the rear arrows and get some momentum going.

[billf]

I've used 4, 5 & 6 step approaches with varying degrees of success. Most pro bowlers are of slight build. Norm Duke is one that uses a 6 1/2 step approach and really gets his legs moving so his 135 lbs body can generate the needed speed. At the league level, to be competitive, that kind of speed usually isn't needed. Record your delivery though. There are probably areas that could be strengthened to generate a more natural back swing and a more fluid delivery that will increase your speed and maintain or increase your accuracy.

[sprocket]

A short backswing is not always something that needs fixed. In fact it can be VERY difficult to change if you have always bowled with a short backswing. EVERY type of backswing requires the proper foot work to match it and IMHO it is easier to adjust your foot work to your backswing then vice versa.

First things first though. The ball has to fit your hand. Period. A loose grip is a muscled grip and that KILLS speed. Too much reverse pitch in the thumb hole is a killer too. What I'm talking about here is GRIP PRESSURE. The less, the better.

Back to footwork. Marshall Holman (in his later years) had a short backswing and fantastic foot work. If you watch a video of him you will see just how short his pivot step (right before the slide) is. He drives forward off that short step and that gets his ball in the right place for release. It allows him to accelerate through release. With a short backswing there almost has to be one or two short steps unless the push away occurs very late. If the steps are all the same length or are too slow the ball just has to hang there at the top of the backswing waiting for the feet to catch up. You will either release it early or just stop the swing entirely. If the swing motion stops, speed is nonexistent.

Increasing the backswing has the possibility of making things even WORSE. It can really mess up your timing and if it does increase your speed it can be at the expense of rotation. Or you might get in the habit of trying to stop your swing at the bottom so you can get revs on the ball, and then you're right back to killing your speed. Don't get me wrong; you CAN learn to use a longer backswing but it isn't ALWAYS the best thing to do.

[billf]

Marshall Holman was one or two of the bowlers names in Mark Baker's book as having different timing than all of the other thousands of bowlers, past and present, that he checked with his new timing method.
Good point about the grip pressure. A fluid delivery also creates speed but most people (league bowler with under a 200 average) have too poor of footwork to qualify.

[sprocket]

Marshall Holman was one or two of the bowlers names in Mark Baker's book as having different timing than all of the other thousands of bowlers, past and present, that he checked with his new timing method.
Good point about the grip pressure. A fluid delivery also creates speed but most people (league bowler with under a 200 average) have too poor of footwork to qualify.

I definitely will have to read Mark Baker's book. Honestly I never saw anything particularly out of place with Marshall Holman's footwork. Yes, it was unique, but it wasn't like I watched it and said "how can he possibly release the ball right with that weird footwork?" His swing was quite unique and his footwork matched it. He drove off his short pivot step and was still sliding when he let go of the ball, but his foot speed and his momentum while sliding helped generate more ball speed. He made it look so easy, and to me, every piece fit. I was always amazed that nobody else had a similar approach. I never understood why.

I think short backswings are just very rare among pro bowlers. They all seem to throw the ball so hard these days. However, short backswings are much more common among regular league bowlers I just don't think it's always the right fix to try to get them to use a longer swing.

[billf]

Not a longer swing. Most league bowlers use a long push away with a high starting point. I have moved many people lower and show them how to hinge it. The swing length is the same, or very close, with the added benefit of a decent back swing.

[sprocket]

One other thing I find interesting about Mark Baker commenting on Marshall Holman's foot work: If you watch the title match of the '86 Firestone on youtube you will see Marshall and Mark bowling for the championship. In my book Marshall has footwork that exactly matches his swing. Mark Baker, on the other hand, kind of stutters with his feet at the start of his approach, then takes a very long first step and almost stops. Then he has a long second step and after that his approach speeds up. Finally he stops quickly at the line and often falls off right after releasing the ball. Of the two I think Holman had far superior footwork.

[sprocket]

Not a longer swing. Most league bowlers use a long push away with a high starting point. I have moved many people lower and show them how to hinge it. The swing length is the same, or very close, with the added benefit of a decent back swing.


That makes sense. I can see how that would work for those that fit your description.

[Scojoy]

Not a longer swing. Most league bowlers use a long push away with a high starting point. I have moved many people lower and show them how to hinge it. The swing length is the same, or very close, with the added benefit of a decent back swing.

Bill, what do you mean by "moved people lower"? Lower to the ground? Seems to me that if I approached in a lower postition, I would be able to get my left shoulder lower easier and maybe that would help my speed.