Anyone see the WSOB Cheetah championship today?

[scottymoney]

I watched the whole event and I started to cringe watching Jeff Roche bowl. He uses DV8 so that was cool to see him make the telecast but his form was so ugly!

I think Bill would probably puke watching him bowl. It is so unnatural and plain ugly. Normally during the telecast they talk about how awesome the pros form is. All they could say about Roche was "unorthodox" and that was being nice.

[J Anderson]

I recorded it on DVR, but have only watched the first match. I did notice Roche's form during the intro, not really looking forward to watching him for a whole game.

[75lockwood]

I really wanted to watch, but no espn and can't find anything from this year online yet..... stupid rogers cable

[billf]

I've started to watch. In the middle of the O'Neil vs Roche match debacle now. I mean, seriously, is that the best DV8 can do? Watching that unorthodox approach/delivery/timing was almost enough for me to change brands again. How on Earth that man has managed to stay on tour while I suck is just insane.
I noticed he was from Michigan, same a Smallwood. Does Michigan have any normal delivery bowlers there?

[scottymoney]

Lockwood, check YouTube soon I bet someone will have it up soon.

[e-tank]

friend texted me saying bowling was on. caught the second half of roche vs oneil. Roche definitely had a unique delivery

[EboniteKid299]

Yeah... I have no idea how he managed to average 249 for the qualifying round while hitting the pocket AND carrying but he got the job done I guess props to him

[MisterSinister]

What was more interesting to me was the sleeve Roche was wearing. Chris Barnes was wearing one last week as well. Basketball players have been wearing shooters sleeves for years, is it going to become popular in bowling now as well? I've only seen one on sale to the public as of now, and that's Belmo's. No offence, cause I like the guy, but I'm not wearing a sleeve that says Belmonte on it.

[scottymoney]

It does make you feel better about your own form, but then you are pissed that you can't average scores like he did in that tournament. I would be surprised to see him in any finals going forward.

[Cochese]

It's already on youtube, at least this game is

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LTnKKI8Aj0

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2bEzGp7kLg

And yes, his delivery is hideous. I do like the DV8 shirt and escpecially like his Terror!

[GeoLes]

I watched the whole event and I started to cringe watching Jeff Roche bowl. He uses DV8 so that was cool to see him make the telecast but his form was so ugly!

I think Bill would probably puke watching him bowl. It is so unnatural and plain ugly. Normally during the telecast they talk about how awesome the pros form is. All they could say about Roche was "unorthodox" and that was being nice.

They were being polite. Ii was wondering if he did not have some sort of physical handicap the network though was not PC to talk about. Either way, he was able to make the muster non-the-less.

Reality check. Look around any bowling league night and you will see all kinds of bowling approaches. I guess there is room at the top for the same type of variabiltiy.

I am just learning more about the various patterns and found it interesting to see the choice of line in playing this short pattern. The annoucers played up the short pattern fact a little, but it would do more for the game in general if they explained the dynamics that make a given pattern more difficult to play than another. I think more casual watchers would see bowling as more than throwing a ball at a bunch of pins.

[75lockwood]

It's already on youtube, at least this game is

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LTnKKI8Aj0

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2bEzGp7kLg

And yes, his delivery is hideous. I do like the DV8 shirt and escpecially like his Terror!

thanks! lol i just checked youtube again found this but sunday`s are for bowling uploaded 10 minutes ago :cool:

[scottymoney]

They were being polite. Ii was wondering if he did not have some sort of physical handicap the network though was not PC to talk about. Either way, he was able to make the muster non-the-less.

Reality check. Look around any bowling league night and you will see all kinds of bowling approaches. I guess there is room at the top for the same type of variabiltiy.

I am just learning more about the various patterns and found it interesting to see the choice of line in playing this short pattern. The annoucers played up the short pattern fact a little, but it would do more for the game in general if they explained the dynamics that make a given pattern more difficult to play than another. I think more casual watchers would see bowling as more than throwing a ball at a bunch of pins.

I would like to know if there was a physical handicap causing him to have to play this way. I do think they need to discuss more about patterns as just length and how easy it is to score on them. They could cut out a bit of the showing the guys warming up to maybe show a diagram of how the oil is on the lanes and how the bowlers need to play it. They could really use the Madden telestrator!

[Cochese]

Would be cool if they showed a trace of the line each ball was thrown every frame. Would show what line they are playing and how they adjust.

[GeoLes]

Definitely. My wife is now caught up. Last year, I bored her with observations about where the bowler stood, over which mark he seemed to roll, observations of "inside out" ball release etc. Now she has had a few lessons under her belt, she gets it and watches for such things. It seems to me that when the announcers have "fill in time", they can cut to pattern graphics and perferred lines, slow motion release shots, etc. As long as it is easy for the layman to grasp. It's better than talking about non-essential, all be it human interest info.

I am aware that bowling is trying to break from the old image of "perfect-haird-Earl Anthony-sitting-sipping water-rolling a strike-(small fist pump)-sitting-sipping-scratching-looking". There is so much further the PBA can go nick colorful bowling shirts, names, and Pete Webber tempermental antics. I think that the more the casual observer knows of the inside of the game, the more it is appreciated.

I found it interesting that the bowling was followed by a polker tourament with a $1 million minimum pot. They talked about who these guys were and how they came to have money to burn, what cards they held, what potential hand they could build from the open cards, etc. There is always the occasional irrelevant fact. They even mentioned that one of the gamblers was left-handed. (very helpful to know which hand he used to rake in the chips after a winning hand).

[scottymoney]

Still unsure why ESPN is carrying poker. Poker was a fad a few years ago, but I found it to be very boring.

Maybe one of these they will replace Pederson. Never liked the guy and think they could put someone else in there to do a much better job. Maybe they stay away from pointing out oil patterns and such because Pederson just can't do it? I don't know, they could do so much more with it.

Another thing they never really touch on is how these players got to the finals. They always mention they made it to the round of 16 and so on, but they don't really show you any footage of what these guys went through. (You would only really know if you had xtraframe) Explaining tournament format would even give people a greater appreciation for what these guys did.

[scottymoney]

Just re-watched it and Pederson did say one of the best lines ever when refering to Roche's style. "It is like an octopus falling out of a tree".

Not sure if anyone else noticed bad camera angles on some of the shots? The way they switched cameras you never see the ball hit the pins!

[MisterSinister]

I thought Roche was going to pull a Tom Daughrety after he whiffed on that 10 pin. He didn't quite reach that low, nor did his thumb stick and send him flying down the lane like Josh Blanchard, but still not good. I couldn't believe someone with such a quirky delivery can bowl at that high of a level. I give him tons of credit though, he does what he does, and he is very good at it. After he got his jitters out, he finished well. Good to see Bill O'niel win again, I like him a lot. Can't wait for next week, my man Mike Fagan takes to the lanes looking for a another title. I know it's pre recorded, but GO MIKE!!! Also, even though I don't bowl thumbless anyomre, I am still a supporter of Tom Daughrety. It put a huge smile on my face when I read that he qualified 4th for the Shark Championship. Can't wait to see him Jan 6th, and I hope he wins. Tough show though, he has to go through Belmo, and Osku.

[J Anderson]

A few thoughts:
With enough practice you can be consistent doing things the "wrong" way.

The stiffness of Roche's approach and the consistency of his slide foot going left makes me wonder if there isn't a physical problem behind his unorthodox delivery, like Wayne Garber's broken kneecaps.

ESPN. There are times when it looks like they sub out the production to the local high school AV club. Any one else catch that when they showed the stepladder before the second game the switched Oneal's score with Loecsheter's? Sometimes they show what balls the player has and which one is being used. Some times they don't. And when they do remember to mention that a bowler has changed balls they almost never say what the new ball is.

I have the feeling that ESPN isn't sure who their target audience is. Is it hardcore bowler's who really want to know the difference between Cheetah and Viper? Is it the average league bowler, hoping that just watching the pros will his or her game a little better? Is is the non-bowler who might get interested by the 'up close and personal' side bars? Until they figure it out, I think we're doomed to an odd mix of a little bit of everything, not particularly well done, and not enough of anything in particular to satisfy anyone.

[GeoLes]

I like to see the ball reaction on the lane but so often the score graphics are placed lower left screen where it blocks the split second you need to see the delivery. It would be nice to move that to the top of the screen somewhere out of the way.

[AZBowla]

That guy Roche has to have one of the weirdest looking bowling deliveries I've ever seen. I thought Shafer's delivery was weird....

I like his jersey though - I want one! :D

[AZBowla's Girl]

That guy Roche has to have one of the weirdest looking bowling deliveries I've ever seen. I thought Shafer's delivery was weird....

I like his jersey though - I want one! :D

I have to agree that his delivery was very strange looking indeed. And I also loved his jersey. We will have to keep our eyes open for some in the near future. :)

[LonelyBowler]

I couldn't stand this guy's delivery. I just find it curious that they don't try to get a more traditional approach.

[J Anderson]

I couldn't stand this guy's delivery. I just find it curious that they don't try to get a more traditional approach.

"They"? What they are you talking about? This isn't the WWE where some mid level manager is deciding which actor, oops, wrestler will be the next champ. Anyone who meets certain standards, like a 200+ average, and can pay the annual dues can be a member of the PBA.

Even back in the 60s when conditions dictated a more traditional approach, many of the pros had distinct styles.

[MisterSinister]

I couldn't stand this guy's delivery. I just find it curious that they don't try to get a more traditional approach.

Maybe because his approach works, he did qualify second for a PBA tourney. He would whoop you in a game, that's for sure. He's the guy, that when you walk into a bowling center, you see him and think "I want to bowl him for money." Then, you walk out with your pockets empty. I remember Randy Pederson saying the say thing about Walter Ray. Don't sleep on guys just cause you don't like the way they look throwing the ball. This isn't ice skating, or gymnastics, where how you look is important.

[Zothen]

I have made 2 observations of Rouche-

1)He may have suffered some type of arm or shoulder injury,which my be reason why he bowls like that.

2)He appeared to be heavily medicated. He looked like he was having trouble opening his eyes when on appraoch and in his interview he seemed out of it.

Zothen

[scottymoney]

I have made 2 observations of Rouche-

1)He may have suffered some type of arm or shoulder injury,which my be reason why he bowls like that.

2)He appeared to be heavily medicated. He looked like he was having trouble opening his eyes when on appraoch and in his interview he seemed out of it.

Zothen

Agreed! Especially on #2 I would have probably put money on him being high. He looked like he had just got done smoking up and was just looking for some pop tarts!

[MisterSinister]

I don't know about him "being high" He does look like he could play Lurch if they ever did a new Adam Family.

[Trex]

I don't know about him "being high" He does look like he could play Lurch if they ever did a new Adam Family.

Not high, med condition called lazy eye If I had to guess. Looks a little tiny bit more handicap than myself, but I almost look as bad!! :cool:

BUT!!! ...I will bowl anyone & I mean anyone as I am also a member who is just starting out. ;)

C'mon Mayor let's bowl!!! hehe...just thought I would drop in and say Hi to the one & only Mayorrrrrrrrrrrr!! :cool:

[got_a_300]

That guy Roche has to have one of the weirdest looking bowling deliveries I've ever seen. I thought Shafer's delivery was weird....



Talk about having a weird approach has anyone ever watched Wayne Garber bowl?
Of coarse his weird approach is from him having an accident and hurting his leg or
was it his knee.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgD9WpAt4M

[J Anderson]

Talk about having a weird approach has anyone ever watched Wayne Garber bowl?
Of coarse his weird approach is from him having an accident and hurting his leg or
was it his knee.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgD9WpAt4M

If I remember correctly it was both knees falling on a set of stairs. His doctors initially thought the damage was so bad he wouldn't be able to walk again.

[scottymoney]

Garber isn't too bad, although I remember reading that you never want to stop in your approach. It should be a fluid movement through the approach. Stopping and starting throws off timing, I watch guys in my league do this every week.

I guess knowing a guys background would go an awful long way on explaining things. Maybe they should explain this stuff in the telecasts. It would be great to hear instead of Randy Pederson mentioning how every guy has "Maple Moxy".

[Trex]

Garber isn't too bad, although I remember reading that you never want to stop in your approach. It should be a fluid movement through the approach. Stopping and starting throws off timing, I watch guys in my league do this every week.

I guess knowing a guys background would go an awful long way on explaining things. Maybe they should explain this stuff in the telecasts. It would be great to hear instead of Randy Pederson mentioning how every guy has "Maple Moxy".

Totally agree!! I'm lucky to even be able to walk, much less bowl, but I am a fighter!! I refuse to let my handicap keep me down!!
It's the only way to really deal with such a bad break in life, you have to recover, get back up & find ways to deal with it & keep living
doing the things you enjoy most.

Every time I start feeling sorry for myself & getting down about it, I think of those guys who keep on doing what I am doing,
yet they lost there legs all together serving there country in the military.

Those guys encourage me more than anything!! If they can recover, and get use to artificial
limbs & re-learn how to walk and do what they love doing...Then I have no reason to lay down and give up!!

When the day comes that I cannot stand or walk, I will still go bowling in my wheel chair!! Might only be in league, but I'll be bowling!! :D

[AZBowla]

I'm sure there's quite a few pro's out there who never make the telecasts but still bring home some decent paychecks out of it. I think Roche is one of those pro's and just got lucky and struck gold on the Cheetah pattern that day. Despite his style being classified as an "octopus falling out of a tree" Jeff Roche took home $7100 for that performance. I'd like to do that "badly" myself some day. Entry into the WSOB was what, $750 or so? So he basically made $5500for one week's worth of "work". I don't care who you are, that's good money right there. Let's say his hotel room and whatever other expenses were another $1000. He still cleaned up.

I'm tempted to try the WSOB myself some day. Non members can enter for $750 and there's plenty of places to stay in Vegas for not much coin if you're willing to stay in a place that's not on the strip. All I need is the cash and a league average of 200 or better. Who knows, maybe you guys will see me on TV some day and laugh at how crappy I do lol...

[v33dubfox]

I think that it's not how you bowl that is important. It's the score you make. Who ever make a PBA telecast here?

[AZBowla]

I have another correction to make, upon further reading up, I found that you must be a full PBA member (or international WTBA member) to enter the WSOB. So I guess that's another goal to achieve first, but I would love to try this one year. If nothing else it's an interesting item to have on one's bucket list. :) I don't care if I got last place, I'd just love to be able to say I've bowled in the WSOB against the top pro's out there. That would be fun.

[AZBowla]

I think that it's not how you bowl that is important. It's the score you make.

Yes and no. Sure, you can bowl like a weirdo and get lucky once in a while, but I'd rather bowl more like the guys who consistently make the show (and the prize money that goes along with it). If all it took was putting up a high score once in a blue moon then we could all be PBA bowlers. The thing that separates us from them is that they (the good ones anyway) can do it consistently. I can bowl over 200, I've done it several times, but I am not yet to the point where I consistently score over 200 and that's because my bowling form is not yet consistent enough to do that. That's the difference. Plus this is on THS conditions where the margin of error is quite high. Put me on a PBA pattern and a guy like Jeff Roche will probably beat the pants off me easily. Again, it's all about being consistent, about making your best shot more often. You're right that it doesn't matter so much what your best shot looks like - what matters is can you do it nearly every time you stand on the approach?


Who ever make a PBA telecast here?
Not me! But if I had the money to keep entering events I bet I could just once, like Roche did. And I bet my butt would get handed to me by someone like Bill O'Neill just like Roche had his handed to him, because again, I'm not consistent enough with how I bowl and neither was he. But everyone has 15 minutes of fame and everyone has that one day where they are just unstoppable. So it could happen to any one of us, I think.

[billf]

I have another correction to make, upon further reading up, I found that you must be a full PBA member (or international WTBA member) to enter the WSOB. So I guess that's another goal to achieve first, but I would love to try this one year. If nothing else it's an interesting item to have on one's bucket list. :) I don't care if I got last place, I'd just love to be able to say I've bowled in the WSOB against the top pro's out there. That would be fun.

To get your PBA card all you need is a 200 league average (190 sport shot) and pay your annual dues. Keep practicing and you'll get there.

[got_a_300]

So I guess that's another goal to achieve first, but I would love to try this one year. If nothing else it's an interesting item to have on one's bucket list. :) I don't care if I got last place, I'd just love to be able to say I've bowled in the WSOB against the top pro's out there. That would be fun.

You could always do like I used to do back in my younger days just go and bowl in a few
Regional PBA events and you will get to bowl with some big name PBA players. If you can
cash in a PBA Regional tournament as a non-member then you can go for your PBA card that
way or as billf said just keep that average up there at 200 on league or that 190 sport average.

I was in the process of getting my PBA card back in late 1998 but had to quit bowling because of
my back injury in January of 1999 for 12½ years but now I'm making my come back to bowling since
last fall. I'm hoping to maybe go out and bowl some senior tour or as they are calling it now days the
PBA 50 tournaments later this year as I just don't think I could really hang with the young guns on the
Regional level anymore and see if I can beat PDW again now that he is 50 and try my best to beat old
dead eye WRW.