Gonna Teach My Brother to Throw a Hook....tips?

[Rdmonster]

As stated in my previous thread I bought him a Columbia Freeze to learn on. Bought it in 14 pounds to make it easier to learn with...and yes...he would like to throw a hook.

I figured I would start with a foul line drill I saw on you tube. In it the bowler assumes as close as possible to the delivery position at the foul line. The bowler then uses and abbreviated swing to get the feel of a firm wrist and to feel the type of release needed to actually put revs on the ball.

He has been trying to use a 30 year old 16# urethane hammer and every once in a while he gets some hook on it but it's more of a push than a real hook.

I figure the foul line drill would be appropriate but any tips would be appreciated. His average is only about 112 so I think a little hook with a good release would do wonders for his game.

My average has recently increased to a whopping 150 so I'm not sure I'm qualified to teach anyone but I'm the only affordable option and we have a blast bowling together.

[e-tank]

im always the student here but ive basically become the coach among my friends and im no better than you. Im currently teaching my gf to throw a hook and the first thing id say is whatever you decide to do, take it slow and not bombard them with techniques and tips. I basically its very similar to a straight ball with the difference being that you have your wrist flexed and when you get lift on the ball you turn your hand from palm up to a handshake position. Idk if that made sense but it works for her.

[Flyer41]

One thing that helped me when I was learning how to hook was a drill with a football. You just put your middle and ring fingers on the seam and toss the ball while lifting up like a bowling release. If the ball spins along its axis and doesn't wobble, you are staying behind the ball properly while putting some fingers into it and it's just a matter of how intense you want the motion to be.

[ArtVandelay]

One thing that helped me when I was learning how to hook was a drill with a football. You just put your middle and ring fingers on the seam and toss the ball while lifting up like a bowling release. If the ball spins along its axis and doesn't wobble, you are staying behind the ball properly while putting some fingers into it and it's just a matter of how intense you want the motion to be.

Agreed. The football drill is when things really started to make sense for me. And I am/was primarily a 2 finger bowler for quite some time. The football drill made it easier for me to learn how to incorporate my thumb into the throw. Now that I have my new ball drilled, and the span is much better, I plan on going exclusively to the 3 finger technique.

Something about that football drill just makes sense to me. Probably because years ago when I was a teller for a bank, we used to toss drive thru tubes across the branch to eachother by spiraling them underhanded, and I got pretty good at doing that.

My last ball not only had a bad span, but the thumb hole is/was dramatically bigger than what they recommend when they drill for a fingertip ball. With the new ball, the thumb is so snug feeling to me, that I couldn't understand how it was supposed to release properly. The drill in this thread, (http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/13022-Thumb-question) has helped me understand how to get a solid release from a kneeling position. I can't wait to get to an alley and try it out full force. The thumb release makes sense to me now. In the past, the thumb pressure I had on the ball was the only reason it didn't come flying off my hand. I think that with this new thumb snugness, things will be easier once I get used to it.

[75lockwood]

One note on the football drill, make sure to impress upon your brother that the motion happens on release, not before or after.


One thing i recommend is to read chapter's 6-8 of the USBC Bronze Certification Manual; there is a lot of great information on technique teaching.


Remember, don't over teach, sure you can point out 10 things he might be doing wrong, but you need to prioritize what if most important and give him a single thing to work on at a time. Good luck, and remember having fun is the most important thing :D

[scottymoney]

How does your brother currently throw?

Football drill is definitely the one to teach for the release. I would also like to mention teaching how to aim with the arrows and how to setup.

Throwing a hook is great but if you can't aim with the arrows and know how to move with what the ball does then it doesn't matter much. But that is depending on your brothers current knowledge of the game. Lining up I think at time gets over looked when teaching new/learning bowlers.

[Cochese]

Patience is key. Like everybody has said, you will see everything wrong at once, but you can only fix maybe one or two things at a time. Make sure he has a grasp on the very basics like Scottymoney pointed out before you work on wrist position and release drills. Aim, approach, footwork, etc. I wish I would have learned good fundamentals before instead of having to correct bad habits now.

Even if he can't crank it up and hook the $hit out of it, he will still be able to score well.

[billf]

The sections of the Bronze manual Lockwood referred to should be in our FAQ section and it's available on-line in PDF (or so I've been told). Many coaches teach the hook last. You're a car buff, would you paint the care before doing the body work? Make sure the stance and approach are all correct first. A properly fitted ball with finger tip grips are also a must have.

BTW, you're only two hours away. Maybe one day we can meet in the middle for a few games/free lessons?

[Rdmonster]

Thanks for all the tips guys. He's a full on roller right now as to his bowling style. The other guys on the team have given him some tips on how to throw a curveball but he suffers from a few fundamental flaws. His wrist breaks down during his release and this causes him to try to steer the ball. He rarely actually revs the ball but more like just bowls at an angle towards the pocket.

He also uses an old 16# urethane ball that only has a minimal hook potential...and by old I mean like 30 years old and drilled for someone else (it is a fingertip ball and close enough to use).

I plan on helping him with the football drill and a foul line drill aimed at helping him learn how to get real rotation on the ball. He has an understanding of how to use the arrows but until he gets some movement on the ball it's kind of pointless.

I think the lighter bal drilled for him plus some coaching will get him on the path. If he cant keep his wrist at least straight (i use a pretty big wrist cock) he might have to get a device to help him feel how his wrist should be.

Believe me guys...I wont get frustrated and we are mostly gonna be having alot of fun. If he can get some curve on the ball he will be very excited. Ill keep you updated.

[75lockwood]

GO SEE Bill!!!! (and post all video from the lessons) :D

[Tampabaybob]

Thanks for all the tips guys. He's a full on roller right now as to his bowling style. The other guys on the team have given him some tips on how to throw a curveball but he suffers from a few fundamental flaws. His wrist breaks down during his release and this causes him to try to steer the ball. He rarely actually revs the ball but more like just bowls at an angle towards the pocket.

He also uses an old 16# urethane ball that only has a minimal hook potential...and by old I mean like 30 years old and drilled for someone else (it is a fingertip ball and close enough to use).

I plan on helping him with the football drill and a foul line drill aimed at helping him learn how to get real rotation on the ball. He has an understanding of how to use the arrows but until he gets some movement on the ball it's kind of pointless.

I think the lighter bal drilled for him plus some coaching will get him on the path. If he cant keep his wrist at least straight (i use a pretty big wrist cock) he might have to get a device to help him feel how his wrist should be.

Believe me guys...I wont get frustrated and we are mostly gonna be having alot of fun. If he can get some curve on the ball he will be very excited. Ill keep you updated.

Ok, lets start at the full roller problem. It sounds like he's "suit casing" the ball which means is thumb is probably at a 9:00 o'clock position when he's releasing the ball. So here's what to get him to try. Using a clock as an indicator, have him start, AND KEEP, his thumb at 12:00. This is also going along with the football (or softball) drills the guys previously mentioned. He will need to hold this until the point of release. As his thumb is coming out of the ball, Thats when he's going to rotate the ball with his fingers. That should get his ball to hook, and get him off of the full roller. Have him practice this without the ball....just keeping his thumb straight up and rotating when his hand is passing his slide leg. After he does release the ball notice where his thumb is pointing. It should be no less than 11:00 and closer to 12:00 is better. As far as breaking his wrist....slap a wrist guard on him until he's used to feeling that wrist not bend backwards.

At 112 average, he has plenty of room for improvement, so take it slow, be patient, and help him work it out. Rome wasn't built in a day, and it's going to take some time but with the right tools, and instruction, he'll get it. If you're that close to Bill, I'd recommend going to meet him also.

Bob

[Rdmonster]

I'm not really close to Bil im in Indanapolis. The heavy snow has postponed our travel to the local pro shop. Maybe tommorow. Either way I think I can get him going and we will see where it leads. Thanks and I will update eventually.

[Rdmonster]

My brother loves the ball. He's got a long way to go though....did get him putting some revs on the ball. He's pretty excited but will have to invest in more practice time.

[Tampabaybob]

What type of ball did he get and did they drill it as a fingertip or conventional grip?

Bob

[Rdmonster]

it is a Columbia Freeze and it was drilled with fingertip grips. He understands the release conceptually and was able to generate some revs with the foul line drill but had less consistent success with the full approach and release. One particular difficuly is getting a free arm swing. When he puts any wrist cock in at all he tends to keep his elbow bent also. This kills his power and accuracy.

like I said...a work in progress. He will just have to practice and watch some videos maybe.

[scottymoney]

Anyway you can video tape him? Not really so much for us to see but to show him what he is doing. After reading The Game Changer, Mark Baker talks a lot some about showing the bowler evidence of what he is doing so that they understand what's happening.

Other things you can try is to have him use a stationary wrist position, with his hand under the ball and not to use any real cocking of the wrist. Just let the fingers when coming out of the ball create the revs. Basically stay behind the ball until the end where his hand comes up the side as the thumb comes out.

[Hammer]

The easiest way for a beginner to learn to hook the ball is to pre-set the hand. Do this without a ball first. Have him put his throwing arm in a 90 degree angle with the palm facing straight up. Then have him turn his hand towards himself at least an inch or a little more while maintaining a straight wrist. This is the way his hand should stay from the push-away through the backswing and all the way through the forward swing through the release. He can try some dry runs without a ball so he can see what his hand is doing as he swings it back and forward. Then he can try it with a ball. Put the ball in his hand with the palm straight up and straight wrist and then turn the hand at least an inch. Now having the ball positioned directly in front of his bowling shoulder have him push the ball straight forward from his shoulder and let the ball swing back and swing forward while keeping his hand in the pre-set position. This way when he does his approach and he swings to the release area he doesn't have to worry about turning his wrist because it will be turned enough in the pre-set already and all he has to do is let the ball pull off of his hand. Don't forget to tell him that with a fingertip ball you do not want to straighten your fingertips to let the ball come off his hand. You want to keep those fingertips bent like they are when you put them in the ball. It might take him a while to get use to that part. Keeping them bent will put some revs on the ball when the ball pulls off his hand. I had that problem with my first fingertip ball. I kept straightening out my fingertips because I thought that the ball wouldn't come off my hand right. But it does. Good luck and happy reving to him.

[Tampabaybob]

If you have a video camera or even a phone that'll shoot some video, post it here and we'll take a look. So much easier than guessing what he's doing or not doing. Some things may be a quick fix. Glad he got a good ball and had it drilled fingertip. That will help him progress much faster. See if you can get a video up here this week so we can get him some help. Some of us have been doing this over 30 years.

[Rdmonster]

My brother has scheduled himself to take some lessons with the pro tat drilled his ball. Once he absorbs those lessons ill post some video.

[scottymoney]

Good call on the lessons. Sometimes it takes that outside influence to really help someone.

Seen a few guys I bowl with that I told them what they were doing wrong, only for them to not take my advice. And then they basically heard the same thing from another person (possibly explained different) to finally get it.

[Rdmonster]

I can tell him what to do...what I do....but can't teach him what to do....that what the guy giving the lessons is gonna do..