friendly league

[chubbz95]

so i bowl in this league and it seems to be a friendly league with the exception of a few teams because these teams have high handicaps. I personally don't mind I just enjoy bowling I often get edged out by someone with a large handicap but hey its bowling. Do high handicaps bother you? I mean especially if the person needs it I can honestly see why a lot of bowlers need there handicap.

[dj_devillish]

It can be frustrating at times...

I bowl in a couple of leagues - 1 is purely handicap (All pinfall, prizes for high scores etc. are inclusive of handicap) - The handicap is based on 80% of the difference between your average and 225 with no capped upper limit!
This can be very difficult at times. Last Friday, we had a trio's total of 40 Handicap up against their total of 185! This means you cannot afford many mistakes! We managed to edge the first 2 games in the tenth frames so there is an argument that the system works. The last game we bowled just under 730 scratch so won comfortably. We have the highest scratch game in the league - 780-ish but we have been beaten by another team that had an impressive game but had a higher handicap. This in itself isn't so annoying but when we got our high game they came over and gloated that we hadn't beaten their score even though we had beaten their score by approx. 40 pins scratch!

The other league is both Scratch & Handicap, this feels like a much better way of doing it! Prizes are awarded for positions/scores for both scratch & handicap so it doesn't hurt as much when you put in a good scratch performance only to be beaten by ridiculously high handicaps!

Sean :)

[J Anderson]

so i bowl in this league and it seems to be a friendly league with the exception of a few teams because these teams have high handicaps. I personally don't mind I just enjoy bowling I often get edged out by someone with a large handicap but hey its bowling. Do high handicaps bother you? I mean especially if the person needs it I can honestly see why a lot of bowlers need there handicap.

I'm surprised. In my experience the teams with really high handicaps tend to be there for the social benefits of bowling. They tend to be very friendly and easy going.

Usually the unfriendly teams are the ones that think they're great bowlers, and act like every first ball is a matter of life and death. They complain that the handicap isn't fair no matter how few pins they're giving away, but don't have the nerve to bowl scratch.

[ssclary]

Most off the teams with high handicaps at my center are good people and just enjoy bowling. Looking ahead, we have to make up 150 pins a game on this Thursday night. I actually enjoy that part, it pushes me to play better. Only bad part about handicap league is there are those types of people that feel the need to "sandbag". First week setting a handicap they roll all 130 games and now they get high game/series 200 plus pins a game. I would rather beat someone straight up, rather than winning because my team has a "system" of keeping one bowlers average low for the handicap points and then that person with a 108 average gets a 600 series. Thinking of doing a scratch league after this one. No excuses...


Sorry about my rant, still bitter from last week

[Perrin]

handicap doesn't bother me... it's a great way to level the field and make it more even for people getting into the sport to bowl in leagues. (usually 90% in this area so even tougher on scrath bowlers)

sandbaggers bother me...:mad:

[scottymoney]

It doesn't bother me much as our team is middle of the road. There will always be weeks where those with huge handicaps find their spots and just bowl really well, but the next week it will just be the opposite. In the end, it isn't worth complaining over. We have teams that start off with ridiculous handicap, but as much as it hurts to see that many pins down before you start, most of the time you can see why during the series.

[got_a_300]

Having handicap leagues is the only way bowling is going to
survive if you take away all the handicap leagues then all of
the social bowlers are not going to want to bowl scratch.

We used to have a Wednesday night mens scratch league that
I loved to bowl in years ago but it is no longer. They all decided
since less and less new bowlers were willing to bowl scratch and
they were loosing bowlers that they would just go ahead and open
it up to all bowlers and make it a handicapped league.

Yes I hate giving up anywhere from 50 pins to 100+ pins per person
or up to several hundred pins per game but if league bowling is going
to survive then that is the only way, we'll all just have to smile and go
with the flow I guess.

[chubbz95]

I'm surprised. In my experience the teams with really high handicaps tend to be there for the social benefits of bowling. They tend to be very friendly and easy going.

Usually the unfriendly teams are the ones that think they're great bowlers, and act like every first ball is a matter of life and death. They complain that the handicap isn't fair no matter how few pins they're giving away, but don't have the nerve to bowl scratch.

sorry if I worded it wrong but the teams with the high handicaps are friendly. It's the ones that are really serious(scratch bowlers) that show a bit of attitude towards these people. I don't mind the people with high handicaps hell you have to start somewhere right. I remember when I first started bowling I was only about a 150 average now im a lil over 200. I only brought this up because we had a meeting the other day about complaints and its funny because its not like the people with high handicaps are always winning pots or even their points.

[GeoLes]

In my league, one of my friends is now bowling her second season and has made great improvements. She started as a complete non-bowler and is currently standing at the foul line, aligning her shot and doing a one-step release. This season she finds the pocket about 50% of the time and occasionaly closes a frame. I was congratulating her on her progress, but she expressed the fact that she was pressured by the team mates, who are anxious to win. No one has said anything to her directly, but she senses their need for her to score and it gets in her way.

I hear this story so many times in league play. I told her I am able to discount that, leaving it to my team mates. I am there to bowl my best regardless of others expectation. I don't even follow my score until I have complted the game. I record my roll, think on how to improve, go up, bowl repeat. I don't know which team is ahead or anything. I just bowl for me.

She finds the pressure hard to ignore. Hopefully, she will either learn to ignore it, or change teams next year. She is making great progress. It would be a shame to ruin her progress by making her feel inadequate.

[billf]

My Monday night league figures HDCP at 80% of 220. So, as long as I'm within ten pins or so of my average then the 150 average bowler has to be OVER their average by 5 pins to win. They have to be 14 pins over average to tie my average score. Umm, sounds fair to me! They can be over and I'm under and still win?
Derrick rolled a 719 last night (I had to look it up). His opponent bowled a 747 with HDCP. It happens. We still congratulated the guy on his personal high game and series. It's that guys third year bowling and we are glad he is there.
What's odd is my average is higher in the HDCP leagues than it is in my scratch league (by ten pins).

[75lockwood]

Handicap is great, it helps keep new bowlers happy and motivated rather than thinking their not good enough because they loose to the person that's been bowling for 10 years every week. is the handicap system perfect? no, but its better than none at all.

[Zothen]

What pisses me off the most about the handicap 80%-100% of 225(Depending on league)is the fact that a 205-215 avg bowler has 7-13 pins of handicap. Do 205+ avg bowlers really need handicap? Not in my opinion and on the other side you have a 92 avg bowler who has 128 pins of handicap which to me is outrages. I'm all for giving the underdog a chance,but,come on now lets be fair. Lets go back to when the handicap was 80% of 210 and make it fair for everyone,instead of having teams you can't win against because the avg makes them unbeatable.

Zothen

[J Anderson]

What pisses me off the most about the handicap 80%-100% of 225(Depending on league)is the fact that a 205-215 avg bowler has 7-13 pins of handicap. Do 205+ avg bowlers really need handicap? Not in my opinion and on the other side you have a 92 avg bowler who has 128 pins of handicap which to me is outrages. I'm all for giving the underdog a chance,but,come on now lets be fair. Lets go back to when the handicap was 80% of 210 and make it fair for everyone,instead of having teams you can't win against because the avg makes them unbeatable.

Zothen

If you have bowlers whose averages are higher than the handicap basis you are actually giving them an advantage. Take your example of a 215 average bowler:
If he is right on his average with the 210 basis he has a score of 215.
With the 225 basis his score with handicap is 215+ 8 or 223. 'This is horrible, we've given 8 pins to someone who doesn't need them'

Say his opponent is almost as good, and has a 205 average.
with the 210 basis he gets 4 pins so if he bowls his average the total with handicap is 209. He would need to be 6 pins over average just to tie.
With the 225 basis his handicap is 16 pins, total of ave. + handicap = 205+16=221. Guess what, he only needs to be 3 pins over to win!

I know that it feels wrong to give pins to the best bowler in the league, but when you do the math, it is clearly more fair.

p.s. the 92 bowler has only 106 pins of handicap and would need to be 25 pins over to tie bowler one using 80% based on 225.

[scottymoney]

Handicap creates an even playing field, the base number does not matter and is usually just picked depending on the scores of the league. The change is in the percentage, but 10% isn't going to make a huge difference at all. It isn't worth griping about 10% is about 3 pins which I doubt 99% of games are decided by.

[xthe_charismatic_enigmax]

I only have a few pins of handicap, except in my Tuesday night league..anyway, the only time it really annoys me is in no-tap and when I'm man vs. man against someone in which I'm giving them 30-40 pins of handicap..

[75lockwood]

I only have a few pins of handicap, except in my Tuesday night league..anyway, the only time it really annoys me is in no-tap and when I'm man vs. man against someone in which I'm giving them 30-40 pins of handicap..

I don't see the point of handicap in a no tap... I thought the point of no tap was to even the field between mid and high average bowlers, adding handicap to that seems pointless....

[panbanger]

In my friendly league the handicap is 80% of 200. Overall it's fair. The team that bowls above their average usually wins. I guess my goal is to by the end of the league have no handicap. Right now I get 8 pins.

[Okie_Ray]

The league i bowl in on Thursdays is an 85% of 210

[billf]

Handicap systems are simple..bowl your average or better. It's the sound of the number of pins your giving up that mentally impairs the bowler who is giving them. If you're giving away pins, it's because you're statistically better than your opponent.
It's pretty much the same in a scratch league..if you don't hit your average, chances are you will lose. And if you hit your average or above, you may still lose. Just bowl and get better.

[xthe_charismatic_enigmax]

When people with 170 averages bowl 240's..that's just a bit of a disadvantage to a scratch bowler..

[Perrin]

When people with 170 averages bowl 240's..that's just a bit of a disadvantage to a scratch bowler..

True enough but the scratch bowler will have the advantage when the 170 guy proceeds to throws a couple 130's showing why he has a 170 average instead of 200

[swingset]

When people with 170 averages bowl 240's..that's just a bit of a disadvantage to a scratch bowler..

Actually it's not a disadvantage overall. You can't have a 170 average and bowl very many 240 games unless the bulk of your games are 170 or lower. Meaning that the scratch bowler will rightly beat the 170 the vast majority of times.

Do you care about the battle, or the war?

[billf]

What happens when that 170 bowler rolls a 240 yet I still go above my average for a 270? He still loses. Most people have as many great games above their average as below it while the majority of games will be within +/- 10. Getting beat by a lower average bowler who throws well above average has never bothered me, as long as I roll a good game.
I compete against myself. That's what I can control and all I worry about. It doesn't matter whom I'm bowling against, I can't control their game very much.

We also set our line-ups so the guys going against each other are the closest in average. At times that means each of us is giving 20+ pins per game but better than one not giving any while another is giving 60.

[ssclary]

Speaking of a 170 bowler. That is my league average going into tonight.

What did I do...

Bowled my highest game, highest average and highest series ever.

215-246-222=683

Then add into 26 pin handicap per game.

241-272-248=761

I heard sandbaggers commits from the other team. It was nice to now that I try the same every week but tonight it all came together. Would have been hard to beat for most anyone.

[remix]

Congrats ssclary!

Billf - I agree with you. I bowl mainly for myself. I am always trying to bowl the absolute best game I can. If everyone on my team bowls well we win. If not, and I performed well, I go home satisfied.

[got_a_300]

Way to go congrats ssclary on a having a great night!!!

When someone from another team comes up to me and
asks if we won our game I'll just look at them and say I
have no ideal as I do not worry about keeping an eye on
the score. I just concentrate on my on game and what I'm
doing out there on the lanes and then at the end of the
night I'll look to see how we did team wise.

If the person I'm bowling against has a large handicap and
they bowl well I just congratulate them on a job well done
wither I beat them or not. I'm not there to try and beat any
one down and make them feel like less of a bowler I'm just
there to do and bowl the best I can.

If they have a high handicap and if they beat me scratch so
be it nothing to get all upset about I imagine we all started
out with high handicaps ourselves at one time or another and
had great nights where we beat the other person scratch.

[billf]

My Monday night team, men's handicap league, is named Bowlerz Score coaching. If I (or Derrick) see a high handicap bowler doing something simple to fix, we will offer to tell them. I even coach some of them. So yes, they usually bowl over average. Our job is to also bowl over average. This is a sport, a hobby. This isn't life or death. So as a decent human being, shouldn't we help others with their game when we can? Bowling our best is all we can do while realizing our best today may be different than what our best is tomorrow.

[wimsical]

I don't have any problem with handicap, all it does is even out the playing field a bit for the players that aren't quite as good. The better players still get a slight edge, but the lower average players get a chance when they play good. My last league was handicap, most of our games were exciting affairs, we had average handicap, more than some, less than others. It was fun. The best scratch team ended up second, in my experience the highest scratch teams always end up pretty high.