How do I convert the 10 pin with a two finger / thumbless release?

[unclemantis]

I currently have a 159 average and I am using a two finger thumbless release with a single hand release.

I am currently having no.problems picking up spares except for.the single 10 pin.

I am unable to use my thumb and a straight and hard approach due to an injury from years ago.

I have tried rolling it faster with no luck. I have tried releasing the ball in the opposite way to straighten it out but I still miss.

Any thoughts?

[noeymc]

my advice is dont turn ur wrist when u throw it and maybe get a plastic ball somthing that wont hook as much the ten pin will be hard for u cuz like u said u cant throw straight

[unclemantis]

Will give that a try.

Anyone else?

[75lockwood]

Plastic is fantastic when it comes to single pin spares, the goal is to be able to throw the ball completely straight, for me i break down my wrist and don't rotate my wrist in order to throw straight, not being an expert in thumbless bowling makes me unsure what would change. if nobody here can provide insight i would recommend contacting Belmonte at http://www.iabowling.com/ for his technique, while he is a two hander, the release is essentially the same.



Targeting: Line up across the lane with the center arrow in line with the 10 pin

[Greenday]

Give the ball some extra loft to help get it down the lane more.
Make sure you are using a plastic ball that won't hook so much.

[unclemantis]

Belmonte uses a 2 handed

[75lockwood]

Belmonte uses a 2 handed

Like i said, while he uses two hands, the release is done with the right hand only, and is near to identical to what a 1 handed thumbless bowler does. and lets face it, his mechanics are amazing

[unclemantis]

Belmonte uses a two handed reverse ball. I tried using one handed and no luck.

Tom (forgot last name) uses a full grip.

[scottymoney]

As Lockwood said the release is essentially the same. Belmonte does use 2 hands but the left hand acts as his thumb and he doesn't use his left hand to create any revs, it is basically there to act as a "thumb".

[unclemantis]

I think I just need practice but ya. Jason is amazing!

[75lockwood]

Ok, back to before we got off topic, please answer this:

do you use a plastic spare ball?

do you throw cross lane to hit the 10 pin?

are you having this problem because the ball is hooking away from the 10 pin?

[unclemantis]

I am just getting back into the game. I am borrowing my mother's Columbia 300 u-dot 12 lb. I am not using a Plastic for the 10. I am trying to cross over. Trying straight up the lane. I am trying to shove but it hooks at the end. I am able to get the 6 and 9 singles and the 6 10 but not the single 10.

[75lockwood]

I am just getting back into the game. I am borrowing my mother's Columbia 300 u-dot 12 lb. I am not using a Plastic for the 10. I am trying to cross over. Trying straight up the lane. I am trying to shove but it hooks at the end. I am able to get the 6 and 9 singles and the 6 10 but not the single 10.

Ok, working off what you are doing exactly, assuming that you are rolling it across the middle arrow but missing left of the 10 pin because it hooks, aim for the 3rd arrow, adjust from there depending on where the ball goes, if it misses left aim further right, if it misses right aim between third and middle.

*note* if your not aiming for middle arrow adjust off what arrow you are using.

in order to throw across the lane you need to open your shoulders, point your feet to the right so that they are lined up with the arrow your trying to hit.

Cheers.

[GeoLes]

I roll 10-pin spares with thumb and middle finger only. Just weigh the ball far right in the grip, keep the palm flat, point the index finger at your mark and roll off you hand down that finger. It rolls most of my balls dead straight, with the exception of my Hammer with matted finish and TI messenger with agressive drilling. They give about a 3 board break at the very end, which I can easily compensate for.

Now, if I can just roll constently hit my mark,I would be a happy camper.

[GeoLes]

I practice release in finish position rolling flat ball straight down board 20, move out to 15, 10, 5. Depending on the ball and oil pattern I tend to find a little break working into the ball down lane as I work outward on the drier boards. I can either adjust my target accordingly or use more pinky lift as in a backup ball to keep it straight.

And then there is rolling accross lane at 10.

[unclemantis]

To add. My house has medium-high oil. Not sure the pattern.

[billf]

There's a reason Belmo is on the tour and we aren't.
Stand on 40 and go over the 18 board as straight as you can.

[75lockwood]

There's a reason Belmo is on the tour and we aren't.
Stand on 40 and go over the 18 board as straight as you can.

it's because he's Australian right? maybe we should add that to the gold rings thread, being Australian makes you go pro :D

I brought up belmo because he is supposed to be working with the usbc to make a coaching program for two handers, and given the style is nearly identical, i put forward that picking his brain could be a good plan of attack :D

[billf]

Belmo, Palermaa and Diandra Asbaty (co-owns a coaching business with Belmo) have been developing the program with USBC.

[Tampabaybob]

Get a plastic ball......polish the heck out of it so it CAN'T hook, and stand where Bill told you and you "should" be able to pick it up. Don't try throwing anything that could possibly hook.

[unclemantis]

Get a plastic ball......polish the heck out of it so it CAN'T hook, and stand where Bill told you and you "should" be able to pick it up. Don't try throwing anything that could possibly hook.

Thank you for all the tips! I hope this thread helps others also!

[martinezsam2495]

I currently have a 159 average and I am using a two finger thumbless release with a single hand release.

I am currently having no.problems picking up spares except for.the single 10 pin.

I am unable to use my thumb and a straight and hard approach due to an injury from years ago.

I have tried rolling it faster with no luck. I have tried releasing the ball in the opposite way to straighten it out but I still miss.

Any thoughts?


I am a 2 finger bowler as well, (lefty) My best way to pick up the 7 pin, 10 pin in your case, was to stand all the way to the right and aim at the 4th arrow, the trick is to release a little bit of revs, since releasing none will result it going straight to the gutter in this method. You release the ball at the path towards 4th arrow, and it'll get close to the gutter then, hug it and stay in a straight path.
So for you to pick up the 10 pin, I say you stand all the way to the left, and aim at the 4th arrow as well. With the same a little revs release.

[swingset]

Why not just drill a plastic ball for conventional or a three-finger layout? It's much easier, mechanically, to be consistent going across the lane and it will remove any unnecessary spin/hook on a shot that should have none.

Might feel weird at first, but long term you're hurting yourself with a 2-handed approach to 10 pins. There's no getting around that.

[RoccoRock]

My question to everyone who is saying two handed and one hand no thumb is essentially the same is this, have you ever bowler either way? It is the same in some ways, most in fact, however, this is one case where it is not. The two handers have a big advantage throwing a straight, or backup ball over one hand no thumb. The second hand keeps the ball stable, making it easier to come straight up the back. Going straight up the back, end over end without a thumb is very tough to do. I don't use a thumb (most of the time) and I don't go straight up the back. Plastic is what helps me the most. I had an older plastic ball, and I struggled making 10 pins. I bought a brand new, nice clean shiny plastic ball, and 10 pins became a lot less of an issue. Speed is key, I throw the 10 pin at least a mph faster. Angle is huge too. I use as much of the lane as I can. Greenday said use loft, and I agree. If you can get close, but the ball just hooks away at the last second, loft will help you. As Randy Pederson says, if it's not on the lane it can't hook. Of course, you don't want too much loft, you can lose accuracy that way, and it will make the bowling center a little mad. The biggest key, practice. I'll bowl entire games aiming for the 10 pin. It may take some time, but it can be done. If you are struggling too much, and can't get close, it may be worth it to give it a shot using your thumb. I know one or two thumbless bowlers who do that, and yes Tom Daughrety uses his thumb on all spares. If you want, take some video, and I can look at it and give you a pointer or two. I am not the best bowler on this site, but I probably (and I am totally guessing on this and not trying to brag) the most experienced, and best two finger bowler here.

[billf]

I've bowled thumbless, two-handed and yes, even left-handed.

[billf]

My question to everyone who is saying two handed and one hand no thumb is essentially the same is this, have you ever bowler either way? It is the same in some ways, most in fact, however, this is one case where it is not. The two handers have a big advantage throwing a straight, or backup ball over one hand no thumb. The second hand keeps the ball stable, making it easier to come straight up the back. Going straight up the back, end over end without a thumb is very tough to do. I don't use a thumb (most of the time) and I don't go straight up the back. Plastic is what helps me the most. I had an older plastic ball, and I struggled making 10 pins. I bought a brand new, nice clean shiny plastic ball, and 10 pins became a lot less of an issue. Speed is key, I throw the 10 pin at least a mph faster. Angle is huge too. I use as much of the lane as I can. Greenday said use loft, and I agree. If you can get close, but the ball just hooks away at the last second, loft will help you. As Randy Pederson says, if it's not on the lane it can't hook. Of course, you don't want too much loft, you can lose accuracy that way, and it will make the bowling center a little mad. The biggest key, practice. I'll bowl entire games aiming for the 10 pin. It may take some time, but it can be done. If you are struggling too much, and can't get close, it may be worth it to give it a shot using your thumb. I know one or two thumbless bowlers who do that, and yes Tom Daughrety uses his thumb on all spares. If you want, take some video, and I can look at it and give you a pointer or two. I am not the best bowler on this site, but I probably (and I am totally guessing on this and not trying to brag) the most experienced, and best two finger bowler here.

While you make a great point, where in this thread did anyone say it was the same?

[unclemantis]

I am going practice tonight. I will post on YouTube my games. I will put some tape on the ball so you all can see my revs and pap and speed.

[unclemantis]

Just got done with a little Practice.
Bowled a 162, 137, 154, 140, 157, 183 for a 933 series!

[RoccoRock]

While you make a great point, where in this thread did anyone say it was the same?

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i would recommend contacting Belmonte at http://www.iabowling.com/ for his technique, while he is a two hander, the release is essentially the same.



As Lockwood said the release is essentially the same. Belmonte does use 2 hands but the left hand acts as his thumb and he doesn't use his left hand to create any revs, it is basically there to act as a "thumb".

It's much harder to go straight end over end with one hand no thumb. Tonight I bowled against a fellow no thumber. He uses a pinkie hole. I tried it, and I loved it. I almost ran into the pro shop to have one put in my ball. Wish I had. It makes the ball more stable, easier to carry on the backwing, and easier to throw. He does throw a straight end over end ball for 10 pins, but he is not very accurate with it. He can do it because of the pinkie hole, and he uses a spare ball 4 pounds lighter than strike ball. The ball almost falls of his hand, and goes about 10mph. So I guess it can be done, it's just harder to do. I may try it when I put pinkie holes in my balls.

[75lockwood]

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It's much harder to go straight end over end with one hand no thumb. Tonight I bowled against a fellow no thumber. He uses a pinkie hole. I tried it, and I loved it. I almost ran into the pro shop to have one put in my ball. Wish I had. It makes the ball more stable, easier to carry on the backwing, and easier to throw. He does throw a straight end over end ball for 10 pins, but he is not very accurate with it. He can do it because of the pinkie hole, and he uses a spare ball 4 pounds lighter than strike ball. The ball almost falls of his hand, and goes about 10mph. So I guess it can be done, it's just harder to do. I may try it when I put pinkie holes in my balls.

ok, i would like to point out that i didn't say the two styles were the same i stated that at the point of release both two and one handed thumbless bowlers have essentially the same release, there are many difference to the two styles, but the actual point of release (from what i understand) are fundamentally the same and as such techniques can be transferable

[RoccoRock]

ok, i would like to point out that i didn't say the two styles were the same i stated that at the point of release both two and one handed thumbless bowlers have essentially the same release, there are many difference to the two styles, but the actual point of release (from what i understand) are fundamentally the same and as such techniques can be transferable

Ok, and all I said is they may be essentially the same, but this is one case where they are not. I'm not disagreeing with you, or trying to start fights. I agree there are a lot of similarities in the 2 styles, and I was just pointing out that in this case not using the second hand makes this situation more difficult. Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to start something.

[billf]

I interpreted what they said in a different manner but can easily see where you're coming from. Throwing it straight thumbless is very difficult so if the pinkie hole helps please let me know....

[RoccoRock]

I am getting the Rising Star tomorrow, but I probably won't get the pinkie hole drilled until Thursday, but i will let everyone know how I like it.

[GaryBriggs]

I bowl 2 finger as well, when i first started 10 pins were a nightmare! I may have converted 30-40%, and my average never got over 170. I have a very hard time consistantly rolling a straight ball, plastic or otherwise!

I learned to throw a hard hooking back up ball and now convert over 90% of my 10 pins. Its also handy at picking up tricky splits that give right handers trouble. The ability to hook right-left and left-right has upped my average 30 pins!

This is how I do it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBjPDwSNxxM&list=UUIdjqnfXTAjHCRq9nwBvTYg

[billf]

Welcome to the forum! No video of the back up ball?

[GaryBriggs]

Im sorry I copy and pasted the wrong video...

15lb Resurgence on a Med length house pattern

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJgkN7bc3jE&list=UUIdjqnfXTAjHCRq9nwBvTYg&index=10

[RoccoRock]

Looks a lot like the way I throw my backup ball. I could not get it to be consistent, and it eventually started hurting my wrist and fingers. The way I see it, if you can throw a backup ball, you can throw a straight ball. The straight ball will serve you much better on tough lane conditions.

[GaryBriggs]

I dont really put my fingers in the ball when i throw the backup ball. Typically I would inset to the first knuckle on a normal shot, on the backup I barley insert them!

I do that because when I was learning to throw the backup shot I too started to feel some soreness in knuckles, never my wrist or elbow! Rocco you seem to share the same ideology as the people I bowl with, I'm sure i could throw it straight but its not as comfortable for me, considering there is no right or wrong way to bowl I will keep doing it my way! I've thrown the backup probably close to 1000 times now, including sport league and at nationals with great success! On the tougher patterns I throw it straighter taking a lot of the hook out of the equation.

[unclemantis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mNsdcd9Uc0

[unclemantis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TexWIjXF8MQ

[RoccoRock]

I'm not saying you have to throw a straight ball, like you said there is no one way to do it. Of you can do that on sport pattern that's awesome. I would say use a plastic ball, and go with less of a backup hook, but like you said, what your doing works. I throw a plastic ball, straighter than my normal ball for 10 pins, with not thumb, and I convert about 90% as well. Its all good either way.