Should THS bowlers get less credit then sport or PBA pattern bowlers?

[Hammer]

Sure, sport and PBA oil pattern bowlers have it harder then THS bowlers to score well. But I don't think that we should take credit away from THS folks because it all comes down to this. You still have to know what you are doing. You still have to have the right technique as far as your approach, your swing and your release to make the ball work consistently. You still have to control your speed and your hook to the pocket to score well. Just because you are bowling on a THS pattern doesn't mean that you will be bowling all of your games over 200 and racking up scratch series of 600 or more. You have to still practice and work at your game to be good. So sure THS bowling is easier to maybe keep a high average but these folks still have to work at their game. They also need to find the right equipment for their style. So you have to know how to bowl and something about bowling balls. THS bowling isn't always that easy. An example is that I have been bowling for 26 consecutive years on THS pattern and I can tell you that sometimes I bowl el stinko. Two weeks ago on league night I bowled a 185, 197 and a 121. What! A 121 game? That can't be because I have been bowling for 26 years and I know how to bowl. But it did happen. No matter how I adjusted that THS pattern wouldn't let me get a strike and I was getting lousy splits. And I missed easy spares that made me want to scream. So THS lanes do not mean strings of wonderful games. So just like THS folks your sport and PBA pattern bowlers have to practice their games and have the right approach for that pattern and the correct release and the correct equipment for those oil patterns. It all boils down to the fact that THS, sport and PBA pattern bowlers have to know what they are doing to be good at it. So folks should be given the credit they deserve no matter what level they are at. I wonder if PBA pattern bowlers look down on the sport pattern bowlers saying those folks have it easy. You have to know what you are doing no matter what level you are at. They just don't hand you good games. You have to earn it.

[swingset]

No different than golf, IMHO. Your local 9-hole course is a cakewalk for a touring pro....and us high-handicap folks would struggle on the greens and conditions of Sawgrass or Muirfield's pro courses. Yes, IMHO, they deserve tremendous credit for scoring so well on very difficult conditions that would be brutal for your average house bowler.

Not to mention, they often play under pressure and at the highest levels. Many guys try to make a living doing it. How good would you bowl if you knew your paycheck depended on it? I wouldn't want to bank my income on my bowling game, I can tell ya that. They also have constant eyes on their game. How many of us would bowl that well even on a house shot if every swing was being filmed and commented on?

They're pros for a reason, and house guys are house guys for a reason.

[billf]

At first I thought, yes they deserve less credit, a THS is easier. But is it really? I thought about it for a few minutes and came to this conclusion. Easier does not necessarily mean easy. See, I know a lot of collegiate bowlers and regional pro's who constantly say how easy a THS is. If it (THS) was truly easy then how come these people are not averaging over 250 on a THS? Even if they were, how much work went into getting there?
In conclusion, after some thought, I do agree with you. No matter what level the player, to be good and keep improving takes work. Not just practice at the lanes but obtaining the needed knowledge to maximize potential. Not everyone can be like PDW who just throws what the company tells him on the line they tell him. That's not meant to take away a thing from the man's physical game, he's on a level all his own there but his knowledge of his equipment is very limited (he admitted so in a Facebook chat last year).

[Rdmonster]

I dont think anyone will ever give me much credit for my bowling or my golf game....but they should give me props for having a professional level of fun having!!

[EboniteKid299]

Simple answer is yes, honestly because there are plenty of guys out there that can average 240, 250 on house patterns that go bowl sport patterns events, PBA events, or the US open and average way under 200 sport patterns and PBA patterns are just that much tougher. Sport patterns also require you to be more versatile.. sometimes you need to play the gutter and sometimes you need to play 4th or 5th arrow all while hitting the same target every shot

[ArtVandelay]

I think the average THS bowler SHOULD get less credit, but my bowling team (on THS) deserves MORE credit.

Sure, the pros have tougher lane conditions, but my team drinks so much our shot seems to change every couple of frames! THATS talent!

[Davec13]

Its hard to say one way or another, which one is the better bowler. I mean if you are able to be consistent you should be able to score well on anything. I think the better bowler would be able to read the lane and find the best shot on any pattern/lane.

[J Anderson]

I bowl in a sport league on Monday nights, and a recreational/social league on Wednesday night and occasionally sub in Thursday afternoon recreational/social league. Here are my views on the THS vs Sport:

Sport is harder because:
The patterns are less forgiving. I see a lot more washouts and odd splits like the 2-8-10 on Mondays than I ever have on the house shot.

We move to a different pair after each game. Not only does this mean finding the line on the new pair with no practice, It often means waiting for other bowlers to finish before starting the next game. This can break one's rhythm, cause a lapse in focus, and with us in the over 50 crowd can even cause muscles to stiffen up.

The pattern changes every week, causing us to play different areas of the lane, sometimes far outside our comfort zones.

Sport is easier because:
We always start with fresh oil:p. My Wednesday night league only sees fresh oil once in a blue moon. Some of our higher average bowlers are completely lost when this happens.

Better bowlers can break the lane condition down more predictably. When I sub on Thursdays there can be six bowlers on a pair playing 6 different lines throwing 6 different kinds of balls. By the third game you might not have a clue where to throw.

The bowlers are more focused on finding the line and executing good shots. No ones getting drunk. There's not a lot of social chit-chat that winds up delaying the games. In all its easier to get and remain focused on bowling well.

[Zothen]

My views are simple! Most THS high average bowlers will not bowl a sport league for the simple fact they don't want to constantly adjust to ever changing lane conditions and most don't want to lug around 4 or more bowling balls unless they do tournaments. THS is much easier since the conditions we bowl on are more predictable and easier to figure out then a sport shot. I would rather bowl on Wed nites where the lanes are already broken down(THS),because I don't have to work so hard and the adjustments are easier. On the other hand even though I have a low avg in Sport League(147),I enjoy Sport League bowling becuase it will in long run make me a better bowler,especially when I start to bowl tournaments or early leagues with fresh oil.

So do I think THS bowlers deserve less credit then Sport or PBA leagues bowlers? YES! How do you give credit to THS bowlers? Make everyone bowl with fresh oil! We know that wont happen due to cost of oiling the lanes and trying to get the non serious bowler to bowl on easy lanes where they can get decent scores.

Zothen

[austin]

My thoughts on this are a little mixed. Where as yes sport, PBA patterns are a lot harder to bowl on, to bowl a high league average still rquires you to be able to be consistent with hand, line, rotation etc. A THS is more forgiving absolutely, but I can tell you when I bowl my first 300 in my THS league it will still mean the world to me.

[scottymoney]

Our league actually lost a few teams when they switched houses. The entire league went down about 15-20 pins by going to a different THS. I think a lot of THS shots become too easy and people get lazy. Although I wouldn't call our THS a typical THS. There are weeks where it seems pretty easy and forgiving then other weeks where you feel like the line is totally different and very non forgiving. All in all I enjoy not showing up every week knowing exactly what line I will be throwing and how to adjust each shot. It is frustrating week to week, but I feel it makes me a better bowler when I have to constantly figure out where to play and how to adjust.

Tonight at league if the pattern is difficult like last week I am going to try a whole different approach and see how it does. For weeks I keep messing with trying to play a certain line where tonight I may try to not play for the hook and play a much more straighter shot. We will see how it goes.

[GeoLes]

Sorry, I did not read through all the responses, but I have a basic question to ask that may have been answered in the thread. What is a THS bowler. (sometimes you have to define therms for newbies, like myself.)

[J Anderson]

Sorry, I did not read through all the responses, but I have a basic question to ask that may have been answered in the thread. What is a THS bowler. (sometimes you have to define therms for newbies, like myself.)

THS is an acronym for Typical House Shot. While there are a lot of variations in length, volume, and exact ratio, it is usually a pattern with about 10 times as much oil inside the second arrow as outside of the second arrow. This results in a very forgiving lane condition for anyone throwing a hook.

[Zothen]

It also means that depending on what league you bowl in(6pm fresh oil,9pm dry-light/medium oil)the bowlers get used to the oil pattern and can pretty much throw their ball in same spot most of the time with high scores. the exception is 9pm where conditions can be dry-light/medium oil-wet/dry,but,scores are pretty high as the conditions are easy to figure out.

Zothen

[Hammer]

I realize that sport and PBA patterns are harder to bowl and get a high average. The point I was trying to make of this post is that even though someone gets a high average on a THS pattern it wasn't just handed to them. They had to learn the technique of bowling from the right approach to the release to get strikes and spares. Plus they had to know something about bowling balls to get the right ball for their game. So this can act as a stepping stone for someone to try a sport pattern setup. Maybe some would go to the next level and some would not. To each his own.

[Flyer41]

Of course THS bowlers should get less credit for having a high average. The leading averages on the PBA tour year to year are always 220+, which is pretty typical to what you would see looking across a common league house shot. They are playing on a level that very few house bowlers could even average 190 on.

To use golf as an example, shooting par at the Open is usually good enough for a top 10 finish, but does anyone who isn't a pro have a shot at shooting par? No, not a chance. house bowlers can score well by being above average at one particular style and being decent at spares. I know a few people that play down and in or crank it extremely well, but if their line isn't there they are going to shoot 50 pins under their average because they don't have the ability to play other lines. They average over 200, but putting them on a different pattern, they would not have a chance.

[billf]

Of course THS bowlers should get less credit for having a high average. The leading averages on the PBA tour year to year are always 220+, which is pretty typical to what you would see looking across a common league house shot. They are playing on a level that very few house bowlers could even average 190 on.
To use golf as an example, shooting par at the Open is usually good enough for a top 10 finish, but does anyone who isn't a pro have a shot at shooting par? No, not a chance. house bowlers can score well by being above average at one particular style and being decent at spares. I know a few people that play down and in or crank it extremely well, but if their line isn't there they are going to shoot 50 pins under their average because they don't have the ability to play other lines. They average over 200, but putting them on a different pattern, they would not have a chance.

I've only been bowling for 7 years. All the guys that gave advice kept telling me to slow the ball down and stick to one style. I wanted to be versatile so I didn't really listen. I practiced from one gutter to the other and spares only for games on end. The first five years I got my butt kicked every week at league. But when we went to State tournaments I always beat those guys. Why? Because they couldn't play a different line or style. The last two years of league have been more enjoyable as my ability has improved. I enjoy bowling anchor on two teams. I especially enjoy destroying the normal line of an opponent who can't change line, speed, style or anything. I spend my practice time and two or three frames eating their line up and then it's smooth sailing after that.
Even more fun is going against the truly better bowlers who can adjust and being able to be competitive. My favorite opponent beat me one week with a 710 series. I rolled a 711 against him the following week. I got lucky though as he has two 300s and two 800s this season.

[Greenday]

I've only been bowling for 7 years. All the guys that gave advice kept telling me to slow the ball down and stick to one style. I wanted to be versatile so I didn't really listen. I practiced from one gutter to the other and spares only for games on end. The first five years I got my butt kicked every week at league. But when we went to State tournaments I always beat those guys. Why? Because they couldn't play a different line or style. The last two years of league have been more enjoyable as my ability has improved. I enjoy bowling anchor on two teams. I especially enjoy destroying the normal line of an opponent who can't change line, speed, style or anything. I spend my practice time and two or three frames eating their line up and then it's smooth sailing after that.
Even more fun is going against the truly better bowlers who can adjust and being able to be competitive. My favorite opponent beat me one week with a 710 series. I rolled a 711 against him the following week. I got lucky though as he has two 300s and two 800s this season.

I can easily bowl anywhere from the ten board out, but if there's heavy oil, I can't do the inside. I really want to at league, but I just can't do it. I don't get enough revs to do it and I don't want to change my speed enough that it'll hook as it'll hit too weakly. If I had my Invasion earlier in the season, I could have done it but for the past month or so, the middle has had a lot more oil.

[billf]

Equipment does play a role. I can't and won't even try to throw my Misfit or Natural Pearl across the middle when it's heavy. Most THB (typical house bowlers) play straight up ten with only one speed, one axis rotation, etc. I will send my Hell Raiser as fast as possible up and through their break point. Then I can either play inside of them or outside. Going outside of them offers them the chance to scratch their heads in bewilderment. Most of them assume that because they are inside of me that they have the advantage. Playing up the 1 board with over 400 rev rate I can have a breakpoint well past theirs. It's fun seeing the confusion.

[panbanger]

In my league on a THS it takes about 45-50 minutes to finish a game. To me, that's a long time between frames. If you're in a groove and really throwing the ball well, a 4 or 5 minute break between frames can really throw you off. If you have 7 strikes in a row it gives you too much time to think about it. That's probably part of the reason why there has only been 1 perfect game this season so far. Also my alley uses heavy oil on their THS which may also affect things.

But yeah, in my alley at least, a 300 game is a 300 game. No asterisks needed.

[UBowling]

Should a bowler who averages high on a THS get credit?
Yes.
Should they get as much credit as bowlers who average higher on Sport patterns?
No.

Everyone who averages high on a THS can be good on sport conditions as well, but they have to learn and adapt and be able to adjust. If someone is just a typical house bowler their whole life and never try to be good on sport conditions, I don't think they should get nearly as much credit as the bowler who is taking the time to make the effort to be good on every condition, easy or tough.

[UBowling]

For example, we have a local bowler. He averages anywhere from 220 - 240 depending on the house and THS he is bowling on. Throws a lot of honor scores. But he doesn't get a ton of credit of being a great bowler because every time he bowls a tournament on something tougher than a THS, he struggles. He hardly makes cuts on sport shots at all and can't score nearly as high as his peers. However, he averages higher than those same guys on the THS.

[Davec13]

For example, we have a local bowler. He averages anywhere from 220 - 240 depending on the house and THS he is bowling on. Throws a lot of honor scores. But he doesn't get a ton of credit of being a great bowler because every time he bowls a tournament on something tougher than a THS, he struggles. He hardly makes cuts on sport shots at all and can't score nearly as high as his peers. However, he averages higher than those same guys on the THS.


I know a few house only bowlers like that. Average high 220 at one house only. You take them out of their comfort zone and they fall apart barely breaking 140. It's always funny at the end of season association tourney watching them struggle. The talk a big game during league, but when the time comes for them to show up for some money they can't find anything, and it's always the lanes fault.

[Flyer41]

This just reminded me of a story this thread kinda describes. My uncle runs the oil machine at my home alley, and he told me a story of a guy that would always brag about how good he is and that the guys on tour aren't any better than him and he could average 220 on anything. So what he did one league night was he put flat oil across the pair that this guy was bowling on just to prove a point. Prior to that night he averaged 223, that night he shot 390. I felt bad for the others on that pair that had to bowl on it, but my uncle said the moral of the story is to never **** off the guy running the lane machine.

[unclemantis]

This just reminded me of a story this thread kinda describes. My uncle runs the oil machine at my home alley, and he told me a story of a guy that would always brag about how good he is and that the guys on tour aren't any better than him and he could average 220 on anything. So what he did one league night was he put flat oil across the pair that this guy was bowling on just to prove a point. Prior to that night he averaged 223, that night he shot 390. I felt bad for the others on that pair that had to bowl on it, but my uncle said the moral of the story is to never **** off the guy running the lane machine.

I bet the people bowling a straight ball did not notice

[TheSheibs]

I think anyone who bowls above their average deserves credit for bowling a great game. I had a new ball drilled and an older guy who averages well into the 200s, told me a great thing. Here it is: He said he can go up to a guy who claims to be able to bowl strikes every frame, and make a bet with him that he will not bowl a strike on a specific frame. Majority of the time the person won't bowl a strike on that frame. You can have the most perfect approach, arm swing, release, hit your mark every time, but miss a strike because of the pin action.

So it comes down to being lucky with the pin action. It doesn't matter what the pattern is as long as you hit the pocket. But once you release the ball, you have no control over it at all. It is going to do what it is and there is nothing that can be done about. Also if people bowling on sport or PBA patterns think a THS is easy. Why aren't they bowling 300s every time they bowl on THS??? Everyone deserves credit for what they bowl regardless of the pattern. After all, bowling is not the easiest sport out there. And if it was easy, everyone would be bowling for money.

[Hammer]

I agree with you TheSheibs, everyone deserves credit for the conditions that they bowl on. Even if it is THS conditions it took that person
the time it takes to bowl well and to get to know what equipment he needs and know how to use it to get a high average. So now can we say that guys that bowl PBA conditions can look down on bowlers that bowl on sport conditions? I think this is the wrong thing to do.
Everyone should get credit for the condition they bowl good on. We all have our areas that we are good in. Anyway some people can't afford to bowl on the sport or PBA patterns so they are happy where they are at. Like what was said earlier if THS bowling is that easy then why doesn't everyone that bowls there have a high average? I know people that were on our league for years and have a 115 average and never got better. So THS alleys don't mean a high average for everyone that bowls there. You have to be dedicated to be good in whatever you want to be good at.

[hoppy1605]

Thats what it is all about! If you can go out and have fun, and compete with friends there is nothing better!

[hoppy1605]

lol!!!