"Stroker" advice?

[aussiedave]

Had to buy a new resin ball as the old one split open, so I went out and got an inexpensive option in the Ebonite Cyclone, green/silver, 15lbs.
I didn't have it drilled to PAP, but I could have. I asked to have it drilled so it would go long and then come up to the pocket.
I currently bowl with a Blue Hammer urethane ball and bowled with the emphasis on axis.
With the new resin ball, I wan't to go more to a stroker style of keeping the hand under the ball more and getting more lift and revs on the ball. I tried this out after I had the ball drilled out and was a little disappointed in the way it moved into the pocket or I should say, the lack of movement.
I was hoping to get some tips from the forum on hand position or whatever else I might do to get something more out of it.
Thanks in advance.
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[Greenday]

Do you have trouble getting revs on it? Or is it revving and just not moving?

What kind of oil were you on?

What line were you playing?

[ArtVandelay]

In other forums, this is a completely inappropriate topic. Gotta love bowling!

I have nothing to contribute, I was just hoping to ask a question of my own about something I always wondered:

Whats a stroker/cranker/tweener, etc.?

I was labeled a cranker, which would have been my LAST guess as to what I might have been. How do you know what you are?

[Greenday]

Whats a stroker/cranker/tweener, etc.?

I was labeled a cranker, which would have been my LAST guess as to what I might have been. How do you know what you are?

It's based on how you throw the ball. Strokers throw a shot with few revs and have a much straighter ball. Crankers basically crank (for lack of better words) their hand/wrist to get a ton of revs on the ball and their balls hook a ton. Tweeners basically are just in between. They get a moderate amount of revs without getting crazy over it.

[aussiedave]

Do you have trouble getting revs on it? Or is it revving and just not moving?

What kind of oil were you on?

What line were you playing?
Hi Greenday.
I am not sure how many revs I get, but I don't rip the ball up big, just an average lift bringing my hand up to about my forehead - if that means anything to you! I get about 14- 15 mph at the pins. I seemed to get better pin action than the urethane, but this may have been due to the increased speed as well as the different coverstock.
I did get more hook if I angled the hand a bit more at release so I may have to compromise with the release and sacrifice a bit of that speed.
Finding that happy medium may be the next quest for me.
ad.

[ArtVandelay]

It's based on how you throw the ball. Strokers throw a shot with few revs and have a much straighter ball. Crankers basically crank (for lack of better words) their hand/wrist to get a ton of revs on the ball and their balls hook a ton. Tweeners basically are just in between. They get a moderate amount of revs without getting crazy over it.

So, would almost everyone be considered a cranker then? What would you say the percentages are (for most league bowlers...). Maybe 80/15/5? (cranker/tweener/stroker)?

[Greenday]

Hi Greenday.
I am not sure how many revs I get, but I don't rip the ball up big, just an average lift bringing my hand up to about my forehead - if that means anything to you! I get about 14- 15 mph at the pins. I seemed to get better pin action than the urethane, but this may have been due to the increased speed as well as the different coverstock.
I did get more hook if I angled the hand a bit more at release so I may have to compromise with the release and sacrifice a bit of that speed.
Finding that happy medium may be the next quest for me.
ad.

Yea, you really don't want to sacrifice much speed to get the ball to move more. You throw about a medium speed which is good. I don't need an exact number, but just an estimate of whether the ball spins around on it's axis more than others. I'm guessing not if your ball doesn't move much. There's a lot of other parts of the release that can be affecting that but I can't say what without actually watching you bowl.


So, would almost everyone be considered a cranker then? What would you say the percentages are (for most league bowlers...). Maybe 80/15/5? (cranker/tweener/stroker)?

I honestly have no idea what most people are. I can say that in my league, it's a pretty fair mix, with maybe a slightly majority to the strokers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTdmONtZohY - Norm Duke - Stroker: Watch his throw. Ball is relatively straight with a slight hook at the end. Very consistent throws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlMxJb1gdJA - Mika Koivuniemi - Tweener: I idolize this guy. My throw is most similar to Mika's. He gets some more revs, letting him hit the pocket harder than a stroker, but is still more controllable and less affected by oil than a cranker. The epitome of awesome in my book. I love watching him bowl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4-A4QAx_Q - Cranker: I don't know any crankers off the top of my head (Tommy Jones maybe but he's often considered a Power Tweener which I'm not getting into) so I just looked for a suitable video. Look at the insane amount of revolutions on that ball. How much it hooks.

[J Anderson]

Yea, you really don't want to sacrifice much speed to get the ball to move more. You throw about a medium speed which is good. I don't need an exact number, but just an estimate of whether the ball spins around on it's axis more than others. I'm guessing not if your ball doesn't move much. There's a lot of other parts of the release that can be affecting that but I can't say what without actually watching you bowl.



I honestly have no idea what most people are. I can say that in my league, it's a pretty fair mix, with maybe a slightly majority to the strokers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTdmONtZohY - Norm Duke - Stroker: Watch his throw. Ball is relatively straight with a slight hook at the end. Very consistent throws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlMxJb1gdJA - Mika Koivuniemi - Tweener: I idolize this guy. My throw is most similar to Mika's. He gets some more revs, letting him hit the pocket harder than a stroker, but is still more controllable and less affected by oil than a cranker. The epitome of awesome in my book. I love watching him bowl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4-A4QAx_Q - Cranker: I don't know any crankers off the top of my head (Tommy Jones maybe but he's often considered a Power Tweener which I'm not getting into) so I just looked for a suitable video. Look at the insane amount of revolutions on that ball. How much it hooks.

Here are two links the the bowling boards glossary:
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/25-Glossary-A-Z

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/25-Glossary-A-Z/page3

The following is a post by the other JAnderson with an alternate definition:
" For me, the terms cranker, stroker, tweener have nothing to do with:

Rev Rate
Line (swinging or playing up the boards)
Accuracy



Crankers can play up the boards with a low rev rate and pin-point accuracy. Strokers can hook the entire lane while hitting a different target on every shot. Tweeners can out rev crankers and have more accuracy than strokers.

Before I define the terms, consider a couple of current bowlers from the PBA tour: Ryan Schafer, Chris Barnes, and Mike Scroggins. I classify Schafer as a cranker, Barnes as a stroker, and Scroggins as a tweener. Generally Barnes has the highest rev rate, followed by Schafer then Scroggins.

I judge by a combination of (purely physical) swing and release style.

Strokers tend to have smooth swings and smooth, clean releases next to or even slightly behind the ankle. They can have lower rev rates like Brian Voss or higher rev rates like Michael Fagan or something in between like Pete Weber. Today, the players with the higher rev rates that fit this category are often called "power strokers". "Smooth" does not mean accurate. It is difficult to find an inaccurate player on the tour, so it is difficult to give a well-known example.

Crankers tend to have jerky swings with more moving parts (bent elbows, hands that change position from one place to another in the backswing, etc). There is large amount of effort in the release, again with more moving parts. The ball is released later, usually in front of the sliding ankel and the bowler tends to "hit up" on the ball or create a release action that looks like the ball is being launched from a shovel. Look at the tremendous effort Mark Roth (the classic cranker) put into his swing and release. Ditto with Ryan Schafer, Jason Couch, Eugene McCune, and even Walter Ray Williams at times. Though nowhere near as much effort as Roth, compared to many bowlers today, these bowlers often have later release points, put more effort and snap into the release motion, and have more complex swings with effort. These are all outstanding bowlers, very accurate, who can play up the boards as well as cover the entire lane.

Tweeners - well that should be easy enough to guess. Maybe it is a bowler that puts effort or some complex motions into their swing but have a clean, smooth release like Mitch Beasely or Tommy Jones. Or maybe it's someone with a clean, easy swing with a hitch in their release (me) like Ritchie Allen or Mika Koivuniemi. "

[ecub]

So, would almost everyone be considered a cranker then? What would you say the percentages are (for most league bowlers...). Maybe 80/15/5? (cranker/tweener/stroker)?

Forum etiquette requires that you start a new thread on this and not on someone else's thread.

[ArtVandelay]

Forum etiquette requires that you start a new thread on this and not on someone else's thread.

Hahahahaha. Yup. If theres one thing Im good at, its threadjacking. My mind is all over the place. It doesnt take much to get me off topic.

But I think my question has been answered.

Party on!

[ArtVandelay]

...but, just to make sure, I checked the forum rules and Im not in any violation! Hahahaha. Crisis adverted! Carry on!

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/3926-Offficial-BowlingBoards-com-Forum-and-Chat-Box-Rules-and-Info

[ecub]

Not forum rules, but forum ETIQUETTE. Basically, the OP (Original Poster) wants a question asked. And you interrupt the conversation. You, therefore, divert the OP's questions, with your own. How would you like if you wanted a question, but someone else came in and asked their own?

[ecub]

Hi Greenday.
I am not sure how many revs I get, but I don't rip the ball up big, just an average lift bringing my hand up to about my forehead - if that means anything to you! I get about 14- 15 mph at the pins. I seemed to get better pin action than the urethane, but this may have been due to the increased speed as well as the different coverstock.
I did get more hook if I angled the hand a bit more at release so I may have to compromise with the release and sacrifice a bit of that speed.
Finding that happy medium may be the next quest for me.
ad.

What's the layout on the ball now? Can you provide a pic?

[noeymc]

ecub u got 52 post... in case u didnt notice everyone high jacks other peoples threads =P

[aussiedave]

What's the layout on the ball now? Can you provide a pic?
Not sure of the layout - I can get a pic, but not until later today - low tech!
My driller said it was set up to roll a smooth arc - if that helps.
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[billf]

When you generate your lift, are you putting getting more of the pressure with your middle finger?

[Tampabaybob]

Dave, in answer to your question, it does sound like you're a stroker and I would sugesst you try changing your hand position. The more yo hold your thumb towards the 3:00 position, you'll see a different track ( from a different roll) on the ball. Also if you can learn to cup the ball with your wrist that may add some revs as well. Bill's suggestion with the index finger is a good one. I started doing that this year and it's helped with my accuracy and pin carry.

John Anderson.....check your statement on definitions of a cranker and a stroker. You've got them reversed.

[aussiedave]

Not sure of the layout - I can get a pic, but not until later today - low tech!
My driller said it was set up to roll a smooth arc - if that helps.
ad.
I can't get the pic I took on this site, however, the pin is to the right of the fingers about 1.25 inches and just over.
I went to league practice and tried holding the ball dead flat and coming to the handshake position at the last second and it worked - I got 202 and 184. I also made sure I get the follow through up to a consistent area and it seemed to fall into place.
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[aussiedave]

When you generate your lift, are you putting getting more of the pressure with your middle finger?
Yesterday I was trying to lift the ball almost end over end and that's why I didn't get the move up to the pocket. I was getting the lift on both fingers that way.
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[billf]

That was my point. By putting the pressure on the middle finger you will create more axis rotation without having to think about it. Glad to hear you have it figured out though.

[aussiedave]

Dave, in answer to your question, it does sound like you're a stroker and I would sugesst you try changing your hand position. The more yo hold your thumb towards the 3:00 position, you'll see a different track ( from a different roll) on the ball. Also if you can learn to cup the ball with your wrist that may add some revs as well. Bill's suggestion with the index finger is a good one. I started doing that this year and it's helped with my accuracy and pin carry.

John Anderson.....check your statement on definitions of a cranker and a stroker. You've got them reversed.
An interesting comment about the index finger - by keeping it spread, you also keep your speed up as well. I haven't ever tried to cup at all, might give it a go next Sunday practice.
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[J Anderson]

John Anderson.....check your statement on definitions of a cranker and a stroker. You've got them reversed.

The text that was in my post, at least the part in quotation marks, was copied from a post by a different J. Anderson from 2010. I thought that his definition had some merit, and deserved to be repeated if only to make us think.

Personally when I think of model strokers, Brian Voss and Steve Jaros come to mind. To represent the crankers, Mark Roth, ( I think the term was coined to describe his style), and Amletto Monicello would be the standards.

I also don't usually waste my time trying to label myself or other bowlers. I know some of the basic principles of good bowling, like balance, timing, angle to the pocket, etc. and try to adapt them to my own style and to the emerging styles of the kids that I coach.

[Greenday]

I also don't usually waste my time trying to label myself or other bowlers. I know some of the basic principles of good bowling, like balance, timing, angle to the pocket, etc. and try to adapt them to my own style and to the emerging styles of the kids that I coach.

I don't mind the labels because in the end, it doesn't mean much. Whether you are a stroker, tweener or cranker, you can't be successful if you aren't accurate, precise, and confident. If you can't adapt your style to the lane, you won't do well.

[Tampabaybob]

The text that was in my post, at least the part in quotation marks, was copied from a post by a different J. Anderson from 2010. I thought that his definition had some merit, and deserved to be repeated if only to make us think.

Personally when I think of model strokers, Brian Voss and Steve Jaros come to mind. To represent the crankers, Mark Roth, ( I think the term was coined to describe his style), and Amletto Monicello would be the standards.

I also don't usually waste my time trying to label myself or other bowlers. I know some of the basic principles of good bowling, like balance, timing, angle to the pocket, etc. and try to adapt them to my own style and to the emerging styles of the kids that I coach.

When I read the first post, I had to read it again, because I didn't think that's what it said. No foul, just wanted to set the record straight.

As far as Art's question, in my experience most bowlers would fall into the stroker category. The younger generation that has all the speed in the world now would fall into the cranker segment. The twiner category is a fairly new phrase I've only seen used the last few years. It basically puts bowlers below the cranker stage but above the stroker stage. I think it's us old strokers that try to stay up with the kids and put more oooompf on the ball. LOL

[GeoLes]

May I add another question not related to the original thread???

<kidding>