Track Lines

[Iceman]

Ok - the eye dominance thing seems to help (using my left foot as target measuring) and this will be a work in progress. I feel better about my marking accuracy, but still tend to do pulls - this will reduce over time.

My track line has taken a 3 - 4" move to the left from the fingertips and thumb holes. I'm a forward roller, but circling the ball now more than ever. I see that my hand is behind the ball through the backswing, but tendency to come around the ball early during the down swing causing me to still hit the pocket, but with no drive or energy.

I know this is something in my head - and on some nights it works fine in scoring, but I still don't feel good about it. I still have fun when needing to double in 10th or tricky spare to win the team game, I bowl anchor only cause I like pressure, it helps me focus more. I usually make my shot when needed.

The nights that the circling the ball is working, I even show my track line to my onsite coach, he tells me on those nights not to worry about it - just keep doing what is working to get through the night.

Well, after last night venture, we won 3 out of 4 for team points, which is great, but I didn't roll the ball even average of what I should have. My track line was like I said est 3-4" from finger/thumb holes. I know this is not my game, and thinking about it sure doesn't help me get the track closer to the holes where it used to be. (Remember, I was a cranker for 10 years, but last 2 have switched to forward roller, it's still a work in progress, but I get on a roll and do it consistently for a few weeks, then I tend to revert back to the cranking muscle memory. It's very difficult for me to know what I am doing to get the less crank more forward roll muscle working again and get my track line back where it should be. My average is taking a hit, which I knew it would - but I'll sacrifice now for the greater good.

So circling the ball is causing the track line to move (with good flare though) I call it my tiger claw markings - with forward roll it's not as flaring, but more energy at the back end. I assume I am coming around the ball too early, maybe dropping my shoulder and/or not getting the ball out over the foul line as far.

I start my thumb at 12 - push down angle on second step ( 5 Step approach) - keep arm straight (got much better at this) low backswing (maybe lower 1/4 of back highest point) and come through the ball with some authority (try to wait as long as I can do force it out on the upswing). I'm struggling with this piece as I can do it a few times, but lose it after a few frames - then don't get it back if at all that game or evening.

[kev3inp]

I'm going to have to do a little research myself on this subject because my track will sometimes jump for no reason that I'm consciously aware of. I think I might be hanging on too long when it's lower, but I'm not certain. I'm going to get in a little practice today to see if I can still do it. I haven't thrown a ball in 8 weeks and I think I might be a little rusty.

[JAnderson]

When you say thumb at 12 O'Clock, do you mean thumb pointed directly towards the pins along a line that is at a right angle to the foul line?

With the first flare track 3-4+ inches away from both the finger and thumb, you would generally be classified as having a low track and above average amount of tilt. This is likely caused by:


but tendency to come around the ball early during the down swing

It could also be caused by revolving too far, even if you wait until the proper point in the release to begin turning your hand.

There are times where your release can and will match the condition and allow you to score. The 40 Frame Game in Reno in 2007 comes to mind...

What is your goal? You've told us what is happening (a must) but what do you want to happen?

[Iceman]

My goal is to get the track line as close to the fingers and thumb - End of last season when I changed everything from a cranker to forward roller (I was classified then as a power stroker) - I got my track line real close to the fingers and a good tilt towards the thumb. I was more consistent (last 2 months shot 650 - 700 across 4 leagues for 2 months. After the summer, I started back and my track line is far away, I have games where I watch my track and it gets closer, but then as the night goes on, it goes further. Tiredness may come into play there.

But I did get a new HD Camcorder with Hard drive and 200x digital zoom for xmas, so I'll go get some good detailed video and post to show you where I'm at and where I want to get to. I think I also got the motion Pro coach edition software, so I can break it down frame my frame.

My goal is consistency 220, instead of 750 1 week and 590 the next night on same shot. I just want to be more consistent then when I was as a cranker, shooting 790's was fun but same week a 450 appeared at the same house. Kinda makes me realize - even on a bad night, I should be able to shoot 600.

[JAnderson]

Track distance between fingers and track and thumb and track changes as your tilt changes. Most bowlers have the same amount of tilt even when they change release. It's difficult enough to teach one how to change one's tilt in person. Across an Internet message board might be near impossible.

As near as I can tell, we bowlers create tilt in one of two ways. One way is by turning the ball with the pads of your fingers (where the finger prints are) and the other by turning the ball with the sides (where your fingers naturally touch one another) of your fingers.

Before going further, I should explain the difference between tilt and rotation for our lurkers. The easiest way to understand it is to consider a car or a motorcycle.

When you turn the wheels of a car, you cause the front wheels of the car to rotate. If you could drive a car straight down the center of a bowling alley, the wheels would not be rotated at all. To turn left, you would turn the front tires left. Think of a bowling ball that turns in the same fashion as the turned wheels of a car. That is ball rotation. 45 degrees of rotation means 45 degrees of angle between the foul line and the direction of the ball's rotation when looking down at the foul line from above.

Now think of a car driven by a stunt driver that is up on two wheels (on the same side). Now the car is tilted. The tires are not at a 90 degree angle to the pavement. If the car flipped all the way on its side, the wheels would turn in a direction parallel to the ground. This could be said to be "fully tilted". Think of a child's toy, a top. A top spins in parallel to the floor. So when discussing ball tilt, it is how the ball is rotating compared to the floor if you were to lie on the floor and look towards the ball. No tilt (0 degrees) is like a car on all four wheels. If you flip a car on its side (90 degrees) it is fully tilted, at 90 degrees.

Tilting with the pads of your fingers. Imagine a car tire small enough to fit in your hand where your fingers and thumb wrap around the outside of the tire in contact with the tread. You rotate simply by turning your wrist at the end of your arm. To get more tilt, you generally need to "cock" your wrist. Hold your right hand in front of your face with your palm facing you and your forearm straight up and down. Now, with your palm facing your "cock" your wrist so that your palm is still directly facing you, your forearm is still straight up and down, while your thumb is pointing straight up at the ceiling and your fingers are pointing towards your left shoulder. If you maintain your wrist in that position (angle to your forewarm) and hold it at your side, and imagine a tire (bowling ball) held in your hand, you'll see that the tread is at an angle to the ground instead of the tired being up and down (at a 90 degree angle to the ground). If the hand revolves around the ball while the wrist is in this position engaging the ball with the pads of the fingers you create tilt.

So Iceman, obviously we can reduce tilt by reducing wrist "cock" through the release. It doesn't need to go completely away, but the less wrist cock, the less tilt.

The second method is a little more difficult to explain. Hold your right hand down beside you in a natural position. Now imagine you are holding a child's toy top in that hand with the spindle or axis of the top pointed straight down at the floor. To make the top spin perfectly, how would you need to turn your wrist? Your thumb would stay pointed straight down at the floor while you turned your wrist/forearm around. (This is what the "Asian spinner" bowlers do!). If you do the same thing with a bowling ball, throw it so that your thumb is always pointed straight down at the floor and your fingers rotate around, you'll create a release with almost full tilt. You'll also feel that it is the sides of your fingers turning the ball. IMPORTANT!! If you are going to try this with a bowling ball, take it slowly until you get the hang of it. This puts abnormal strain on your wrist, elbow, and shoulder.

So Iceman, we can reduce tilt by reducing how our fingers turn around the ball. The less our release is like trying to spin a top from the end of our arm held at our side, the less tilt we'll have.

Now combine the two and what do we have?

1. Keep the wrist straight - no cocking the wrist - pretty easy to do if you're not fighting muscle memory. It can help to be loose with the wrist through the shot and release at first. Cupping is ok, but if we have that built-in muscle memory to cock while cupping, we may not even realize we're doing both. By doing neither (as a training tool) we can overcome that.

2. Keep the ball beteen your hand and the foul line - don't turn the wrist around the side of the ball. It sounds like the ball won't hook if we do this, but it will. You should feel the weight of the ball flat on the pads of both fingers.


Hope this helps. I can get a ball to roll right over my thumb hole and the bridge between my finger holes, it won't hook, but that's zero tilt. I've destroyed many of my spare balls in this fashion. We don't quite want zero tilt, but it is difficult to get both goals completely. While trying to get there, you'll get the track where you want it.

As a side note, I typically track over the edge of my thumb hole and miss my finger holes by a half inch. I can also move that down so that the track is 3 inches away from both thumb and finger holes. How to increase tilt should be obvious with the above notes. I can also throw the Asian-spinner release.

I'm still trying to figure out how to get video from my camera into the computer and into a format where I can share. It would help much more than just words...

[Iceman]

Wow - Janderson, that makes a lot of sense. Funny I read this tonight, I just got back from my bowling house after recording video of hand release points (40X zoom). It takes everything out of the video but the release point. I am truly coming around the ball with the wrist cocked as you stated. Right before my release point, my thumb is at 12 and my fingers are at 7 and/or 9 or so. I have a few images I still captured from the video which showed me I was turning my wrist on the down swing, which got me more tilt as your post mentioned.

The other thing I saw regularly was during my backswing, I brought the ball straight back, but at it's highest point, just above the waist, I was behind my back. By muscle memory, I cleared my hips knowing not to hit them, and turned to the right causing my shoulders to be pointing at the 10 pin, but during the downswing my wrist is already on the side of the ball . My fingers do come through the shot cleanly, but with my wrist cocked and on the side of the ball before the release point, my track line will keep moving further from the finger/thumb area. I've got 2 great pictures which show my ball clearly behind my back and my release point (wrist) not behind the ball.

I printed the pictures to come post here so I can describe them, and saw your post and it all made sense on what I was doing and what I should be doing. Now, the muscle memory issue will be my obstacle, as I was a long time cranker and used every bit of my wrist and hand to get the most tilt out of the equipment. I even did it a few times tonight (funny thing about that) was my track line was closer to the fingers/thumbs more than my stroker release attempts. I just wanted to see if I could still do it - looks neat but man I couldn't tell you what board it hit and couldn't duplicate it if I my life depended on it.

I will work on the pendulum swing (complete straight line) back and forth, then see if that will assist with my wrist staying behind the ball longer and through the release point. There's a web site I found with a small video of a stroker's release that I am aiming for. I watch it in slow motion a lot to mentally get the image in my head to help remind my muscles. It's worth a try.

Video Link is http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/VStroker.Htm

Btw - Thanks JAnderson for the time spent posting this, I'm sure it will assist others in the explanation of the tilt process and ideas to get what they want out of it. Cheers and thanks again. I'll post the images I explained above on my profile album http://bowlingboards.com/album.php?albumid=4

And I have added link to my Youttube video page - it has my old cranker style, my current style (with problems in it) Check it out and I take criticism very well. :D

Cranker Style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9NGSO1dh3M
Current Style: (different close ups and full views) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPMfpXoPqH0
(View toward ends show front 6 - I got front 10 then 4/7 Leave in 10th - lol) Even with all the different releases. :rolleyes:)
My Goal: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/VStroker.Htm

One other thing, When I speak of the clock positions, I do use my thumb now, I was using my hand postiion Palm side, sorry this is how my current friend/coach tells me - I'll start using the end of my thumb as the clock hand. So be patient if it may sound a little odd.

[JAnderson]

Thanks for posting the video and pictures.


I watch it in slow motion a lot to mentally get the image in my head to help remind my muscles. It's worth a try.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. The body goes where the mind tells it to. Coaches use positive visualization techniques to get us to change our muscle memory. I've used the same technique to get my finishing position where I want it. I've been fortunate to bowl against Drew enough times in the past that I don't need the video, but I still try to emulate him when I'm working on finishing position. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7wUmBcRiNU&feature=related. Don't hate him for being a lefty :) You only need to see the first 40 seconds or so of the video to get the idea.

There's also nothing wrong with a slightly inside-out swing. Many pros use such a swing and it does help to generate a little more leverage for turning the ball. The downside is that it can make accurately playing down and in difficult. An inside-out swing does help promote tilt because the hand can more easily rotate (for a righty) from farther left to right around the ball.

I may need your help in learning how to post videos some day in the near future. I'm excited that I can get video out of my camera and onto DVD now. I need that next step ...

[kev3inp]

I knew J was going to be of invaluable assistance here. The guy knows his shi-ite. I'm proud to know him.

[Iceman]

I may need your help in learning how to post videos some day in the near future. I'm excited that I can get video out of my camera and onto DVD now. I need that next step ...

I can easily do that. This is one area of the world where I have my muscle memories down to the art. Anytime you need help, just let me know which application you use to retrieve the video from the camcorder - hopefully not a JVC Everio - they use proprietary formats, but it's still possible, just a few more steps.

I'm heading to some client sites, then off to the house tonight @ 6:30, hopefully something will click or at least make progress....;)

[JAnderson]

You, sir, are too kind. Kat and I are glad to have met you as well.

[Iceman]

One other question I forgot to mention - from the video, I have lowered my starting position alot - mostly to accomodate my timing at the line. I don't worry or think about my feet work since that switch, I concentrate soley on swing and target.

The question I have - based on some of the video posted currently - without regards to the arm swing going towards the 10 pin (caused from hand around the ball early) the follow through is not as high as suggested, and I've heard that from many others at the bowling house - I do have a tendency to cut off or short arm my swing. I know everyone has different styles, but from the video WMV when I take it into Adobe Premiere and watch frame by frame, the ball looks like it's out of my hand the majority of the time when my arm swing flares to the right, my common sense tells me this is not hurting my ball direction, but conditionally it would effect it overall, based on the swing direction from the highest backswing...

So how high is a good follow through is it truly based on the starting position, I'm thinking yes due to physics....

It's hard to think about work, as I am thinking about my findings over the weekend and anxious to go attack the progress later this afternoon.

[JAnderson]

I'll defer to one of the great coaches who is in both the ABC/USBC and PBA hall of fame: John Jowdy.

In his book "Bowling Execution" he talks about the follow through saying that once the ball leaves your hand, nothing you do is going to change the ball motion. He does recognize, however, that the follow through is an important tool to ensure that everything before the release happens the way we want it to. In a free, pendulum arm swing, the follow through would be as high as the back swing. Mr. Jowdy recommends that you follow through at least to your break point - your hand is high enough so that in your field of vision, it touches the break point. Beyond that is fine, but short of that can lead to swing problems.

[Iceman]

Understood with the follow through - last night was a tough feeling of the changes I made. lower backswing, but I did not come behind my back, just felt funny with the release. I did get to play 4-6 boards while ev1 else played THS 10 board - they carried - I didn't :(

As the night went on, I did push a few shots, got to the line with my arm first (due to lower backswing) and I also still came around the ball early. only shot 555, but only 1 open which was a 7-10 pocket (light), so everything else in my game was fine. I'm heading back up tonight to get some more practice in with the release points, I'm going to extend my release out as late as possible in my swing until I get the feel for the release with my hand behind the ball and roll off my fingers.

I'll keep working on it. :)

[Iceman]

Tuesday night - I went to practice some more, I focused on staying behind the ball longer than before, and it made a huge difference in the ball reaction. My track line is still not where I want it exactly, but it moved closer to the fingers, so I'm still coming around it early. But I did get it moved closer....(pats Janderson back)

I then got loose and the pocket was so big for me - I was able to play 2 lines with Ogre (Boards 4-6 and 8-11), then moved left 5 boards, played Immortal (boards 12-15) and then used my Gladiator solid over 18-20, I couldn't miss the pocket and the carry was good. I did throw 15 strikes in a row, and I used all 3 balls during that string. Once I played 10 board 2 frames, I went to 15, then to 20 for 2 frames each, then back to 5 - I had confidence that I knew exactly where to stand with each of the 3 balls.

It was a great learning night for me, I played areas of the lanes that I felt I couldn't play before, the inside 15, I was very unconfortable, but tonight, my just slowing down my swing, and staying behind the ball longer, I was hitting the areas very accurate and getting to the pocket. I even took my hardest ball, the Ogre and played it up 5, a lot of 10 pins there, then moved it to 10-12 and carried well, then moved to 20 and I didn't think that ball would react as much as it did. It all goes to say - any ball will strike on any condition, if your release and speed is right. But, having the area consistently is the key, this is where any ball may not work.

I'm ready for the New Years Day Tournament feeling better about it at least. Now it's time to practice my mental focus for today and not drink too much later tonight. Hope everyone has a great and safe new years eve!!!:D

[JAnderson]

Good luck and have fun on the New Years Day tournament.

It's great that you're willing to work out of your comfort zone, try new things, and experiment. As a "what if..." type of person, the general bowling populace's unwillingness to try new things boggles my mind, but that's an entirely different rant...er...post. There's a quote I like from the PBA's Robert Smith. It applies to any endeavor, not just bowling:

"If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve."

The flip side of that would be, if you keep doing the same thing you should expect the same results.