My first bowling ball and layout

[newmanator]

i recently got a global 900 hook ball and got it drilled, the pro shop guy didn't ask me how i wanted it laid out or anything all he did was measure my hand. The layout doesnt look like any of the ones that was on the paper that came with the ball so i was wondering what you guys thought of it?770769

[SmilingBowler]

Did the guy at the Pro Shop watch you bowl at all? Generally, they'll look to see how you track a ball and from that can see where your Positive Axis Point (PAP) is, but without that, he probably just drilled it as a standard hook with some length.

[newmanator]

Did the guy at the Pro Shop watch you bowl at all? Generally, they'll look to see how you track a ball and from that can see where your Positive Axis Point (PAP) is, but without that, he probably just drilled it as a standard hook with some length.

all he did was measure my hand and i told him i throw it with just the two fingers and my thumb not in the hole, he didnt ask to see me bowl or anything. i bowl from the very left mark and try to throw my ball between the center and 1 over. i just didnt know if the way he drilled it was good.

[swingset]

Sounds like a lazy driller just using a rubber stamp common layout. Won't mean the drilling is wrong, but it's guesswork.

[billf]

A agree wth swingset 100%. It's amazing how many driller's will accept the full amount of money for only part of the work. People work hard (some anyway) to be able to afford equipment and pay these shops salaries. The least they could do, in my opinion, is make the ball the best it can be for that bowler whenever possible.

It will hook but does appear generic.

[SmilingBowler]

I echo BillF there. Personally, I am lucky to have the same two guys drill every one of my balls since I started throwing a fingertip about 6 years ago. The one guy drilled many of my straight balls before then. Each of them watch me bowl regularly and they do the same for a lot of people. Most won't even begin the conversation of recommending a ball to you until they've seen how you throw at least a plastic alley ball. This helps them judge your style of play as well as your level of experience.

If you find videos on YouTube of your ball, you can see how others may have had the ball drilled and compare. You may be able to pick some things up from those guys, too. Generally they are on the staff of the manufacturer and have strong skill set.

[newmanator]

thanks guys ill use it and see how it does

[v33dubfox]

If it is you very first bowling ball, I think that it is complicated to find your PAP. I am sure that is I take a house ball and measure my PAP out of it, it won't be the same than with my own bowling ball.

[SmilingBowler]

True, your PAP may not be spot on, but generally it'll be in the right area. Its not going to be more than 3" off, I don't think. More or less the track on a standard straight (spare) ball can help and even that is better than just guessing and drilling a new ball for a new customer.

I recommend attending a Demo Day, no matter what your level of play. Anyone can attend and you can throw a lot of different balls and speak with the pro shop guys; have them watch you throw a couple balls you feel comfortable with.

[ecub]

If it is you very first bowling ball, I think that it is complicated to find your PAP. I am sure that is I take a house ball and measure my PAP out of it, it won't be the same than with my own bowling ball.

I agree. Especially if you have an inconsistent release. I remember until this year, my track on my bowling ball will vary. I've been working on a more consistent release, and now my track will be the same, so my PAP can be easily figured out.

[SouthpawTRK]

There are definitely two sides of the fence to the original post.

On the one hand, in a perfect world, each customer that has their ball drilled would have a pro shop employee watch them throw, figure out their rev rates, speed, and PAP.

On the other hand, unless a person has enough consistency in regards to throwing a similar rev rate, ball speed, as well as PAP.

There are times when a general layout may work best; especially when a person is inconsistent and/or new to the sport.

When I'm playing and/or practicing, my throws can vary and be very inconsistent; thus my PAP could vary as well.

[billf]

Using a generic PAP for a first ball is one thing but we don't know if it's a first ball or not. Judging by the info given, the driller doesn't know either as he didn't ask. Even with a generic PAP, knowin if the buyer wants an earlier or later roll at a minimum would be a good question to ask.

[SouthpawTRK]

Using a generic PAP for a first ball is one thing but we don't know if it's a first ball or not. Judging by the info given, the driller doesn't know either as he didn't ask. Even with a generic PAP, knowin if the buyer wants an earlier or later roll at a minimum would be a good question to ask.

All really good points. Perhaps the OP can expand on the full extent of the conversation he had with the pro shop?

[newmanator]

Using a generic PAP for a first ball is one thing but we don't know if it's a first ball or not. Judging by the info given, the driller doesn't know either as he didn't ask. Even with a generic PAP, knowin if the buyer wants an earlier or later roll at a minimum would be a good question to ask.

its my first ball, i told the driller that and he was just fill this out and then he measured my hand, didnt ask to watch me bowl to figure anything out. I guess next time i get a new ball i'll have the guy watch me so i can get something the best for me. i havent used this one much since i recently got it drilled, i can sub in a league on thrusday so if i go this week ill have to try it out.

[slmrcs]

In my opinion, (and I've tried enough ball drillers in Queens/Long Island, been to over 10 for myself and family) if you tell many pro shop person something like it's your first ball, or whatever, you will just get generic garbage. If you buy another ball, you have to go in there and tell them exactly what you want, tell them pap, and you should have a far better chance of getting something decent. It could be worse, you used your thumb, you would get a poor, unusable drilling (which in my opinion is the best reason to go thumb-less, no worries about bad drilling like that!). Anyway, with it being your first ball, don't know how much it matters. Most bowlers are no consistent enough for it to really matter.

[Trex]

With the info you gave him, I think he made a good choice on the layout as that is a layout I use often on sport patterns. It's also a good layout for Crankers, as well as those who do not use there thumb. Some Crankers like a weaker layout than that because the balls of today are just so strong that they are hard to control. The layout is only going to make a certain amount of difference, so if you don't like the reaction of the ball as it is...It would be wise to try different surfaces to change the reaction, rather than a different layout. More surface=more over all hook,and less surface= less hook but sharper break point angle( depending on lane condition/oil pattern). Jason Belmonte uses a layout that is weaker than what you have on that ball!!

But this is just my opinion so take it lightly. What works for Jason Belmonte may not work the best for you. If you get another two balls in the future, you could have one drilled stronger than the one you have in that pic, and the 2nd ball drilled weaker than the one in that pic...Then assuming the balls are similar in nature meaning cover and core and surface, then you might can tell which layout works best. Some times a weaker layout will work best on a strong ball, and then on a weaker ball a stronger layout might work best.

you must experiment and find out for your self to see what reaction suits your game the best. I know that can get expensive, but it is the only way to ever really know what fits your rev rate & ball speed & axis tilt...etc.

What I done for my self as an experiment...I bought four Roto Grip Cells all four with the same specs as far as Pin to cg distance. Then drilled each ball with a different layout from weak to strongest. I kept the surface the same on all four balls just to see the difference in reaction from the layout. Ball (1) The Strongest layout was too strong except on very heavy oil. Ball (2) layout like yours...was good on medium conditions and gave me the best over all performance on wider variety of oil patterns. Ball (3) had Rico layout which worked best on low volume long oil, where the first two balls simply would not give me the look I needed. Ball (4) The weakest layout was good for short oil conditions where the stronger layouts were just hooking too much.

So here was four of the same ball...with four very different layouts, and it gave me four different options to play on many different conditions with the same ball only different layout. So my experiment proved to me that when they say layout don't matter much, I disagree because for me there was a huge difference. I then played around with different surfaces to see what surface worked best for each ball, and that was very interesting as well and made a huge difference.

Same ball/ different layouts/ then tried different surfaces...Next thing I knew I found what worked best for me on different oil patterns!! And I was shooting higher scores than ever before!! So it may be expensive to do this, but if you are serious about your bowling, it can be well worth it!!!

[Big Nick]

I'll go ahead and add my 2¢. Since it was your first ball, chances are you got a middle of the road layout based on a generic PAP. My first ball was drilled that way, and it worked quite well for me. My second ball was drilled be a different pro who I had also gotten lessons from, so he was much more in-tune with my particular style as well as knowing where my PAP actually was. The reaction that I got out of the second ball was quite a bit more than the first, but it still isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. All that being said, and based on what little knowledge I have regarding ball layouts, it appears that the ball is set up to hook. Given that you don't use your thumb, I'll bet that you'll have a harder time throwing it straight than you will getting it to curve. In the meantime, work on making your release consistent. Once you've done that, figure out where your PAP is and have a driller get the measurements so you can relate that info next time you get a new ball.

[newmanator]

I'll go ahead and add my 2¢. Since it was your first ball, chances are you got a middle of the road layout based on a generic PAP. My first ball was drilled that way, and it worked quite well for me. My second ball was drilled be a different pro who I had also gotten lessons from, so he was much more in-tune with my particular style as well as knowing where my PAP actually was. The reaction that I got out of the second ball was quite a bit more than the first, but it still isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. All that being said, and based on what little knowledge I have regarding ball layouts, it appears that the ball is set up to hook. Given that you don't use your thumb, I'll bet that you'll have a harder time throwing it straight than you will getting it to curve. In the meantime, work on making your release consistent. Once you've done that, figure out where your PAP is and have a driller get the measurements so you can relate that info next time you get a new ball.

thanks guys this is all really helpful information :)

[billf]

For some shops it doesn't matter if it's your first ball. January 2012 I bought six balls at once. They never asked to see my old ball (I offered, said he didn't need to), ask my PAP or what kind of reaction I wanted. After some time dealing with this place and my issues with them and having to go directly to a manufacurer for a warranty issue, he know lets me lay out my own balls, etc. and even wait on some of the customers when I'm there and he is busy.

I stayed with this guy because his fit is phenomenal and I couldn't find another shop any better. I drive an hour and pass numerous pro shops to get there. It's been a process but we are finally on the same page.

[ecub]

I agree with a generic layout should be sufficient as your first ball. As mentioned, you may not be consistent with your release, therefore, your PAP will vary. Until you get really consistent and really know what you want from each shot, then will you want to fine tune your ball.

BTW, I know some 220+ bowlers with generic layouts and they have no problems. I use a modified RICO layout and LOVE IT!

[SouthpawTRK]

For some shops it doesn't matter if it's your first ball. January 2012 I bought six balls at once. They never asked to see my old ball (I offered, said he didn't need to), ask my PAP or what kind of reaction I wanted. After some time dealing with this place and my issues with them and having to go directly to a manufacurer for a warranty issue, he know lets me lay out my own balls, etc. and even wait on some of the customers when I'm there and he is busy.

I stayed with this guy because his fit is phenomenal and I couldn't find another shop any better. I drive an hour and pass numerous pro shops to get there. It's been a process but we are finally on the same page.

That's really good hear that you got things worked out with your pro shop and that you guys are on the same page.