Should I be coming through the ball more?

[I suck at bowling]

Here is a slo mo of my release on the ball (I'm the first bowler). I've noticed that I seem to get a bit of side spin. I've seen slo mos of Osku Palermaa's release, and he comes through the ball a whole lot more.

So would I be better off coming up the ball more?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TisBGm6VDNw

[Zothen]

I don't see a problem with the release as your suppose to have side spin.

Zothen

[I suck at bowling]

I don't see a problem with the release as your suppose to have side spin.

Zothen

But am I coming through the ball correctly?

[mxjosh]

two handed just looks physically stressful geez. so much going on.

[Zothen]

It looks like you are,but,I don't know any 2 handers except watching Belomonte and you look like your coming thru.

Zothen

[I suck at bowling]

two handed just looks physically stressful geez. so much going on.


lol. That is just me. I still am working on getting rid of my violent head bob.

[Zothen]

Hmmmmm! Ah,violent head bob+What is love(Night at The Roxbury)=1 funny night at the bowling alley!

Zothen

[Kobra167]

i'd worry more about your balance and staying on your feet first before worrying about your side spin. Looks like you have sufficient side spin to me for your normal shot. It'll be worth your time to practice other positions for more or less rotation to combat ever changing lane conditions.

[I suck at bowling]

i'd worry more about your balance and staying on your feet first before worrying about your side spin. Looks like you have sufficient side spin to me for your normal shot. It'll be worth your time to practice other positions for more or less rotation to combat ever changing lane conditions.

Now how can I work on my balance?

[J Anderson]

Now how can I work on my balance?

Yoga is great for both working on balance and core strength that helps with balance.

You can also try to incorporate balance work into everyday tasks. For example I often put my socks and shoes on while standing on one leg. Sometimes I balance on one foot while brushing my teeth.

[billf]

http://youtu.be/egPrzCe4DSQ

Maybe this will help you

[RoccoRock]

Your release is good. You are coming off the side a little, but not as much as you think. I've seen guys, including myself, some dead up the side of the ball. I would say now I come off the side a little less than you With that said, It can't hurt to work on coming up the back more, and being able to adjust you axis and tilt to fit the lane conditions. That's something I can't do yet either.

The number one thing I see that you need to work on is balance. Your almost throwing yourself down the lane with the ball. Your slide foot should not come up off the ground like that. Your almost coming out of your shoes. I'm not saying my delivery is perfect, but watch my video in the video section, and pay attention to me feet. I would bet if you worked on your balance, and your feet, it would also help keep your head stable. I've bowled entire practice games where I never looked up to see where the ball was going. All I concentrated on was my feet. I use a 5 step delivery, and I would count off the steps in my head. Steps one and two were slow. When I got to 3, that's when I started the "2 handers skip," but still trying to keep it controlled and slower. Step 4 I was just making sure I got a solid push, and the 5th step, a good controlled slide, and start the balls downward movement when I start my slide. Keep that foot on the ground, and good things will happen.

That video Bill posted is great, defiantly watch that and try to use it as a guide. I saw it months ago, then forgot about it. I started working on my form, and watching video of me bowling, and I tried to fix what I thought was wrong. Now I watch that video, and see that everything I was trying to fix where the exact elements pointed out in that video. That made me happy cause I was working on the right things, and figured them out on my own.

[I suck at bowling]

Your release is good. You are coming off the side a little, but not as much as you think. I've seen guys, including myself, some dead up the side of the ball. I would say now I come off the side a little less than you With that said, It can't hurt to work on coming up the back more, and being able to adjust you axis and tilt to fit the lane conditions. That's something I can't do yet either.

The number one thing I see that you need to work on is balance. Your almost throwing yourself down the lane with the ball. Your slide foot should not come up off the ground like that. Your almost coming out of your shoes. I'm not saying my delivery is perfect, but watch my video in the video section, and pay attention to me feet. I would bet if you worked on your balance, and your feet, it would also help keep your head stable. I've bowled entire practice games where I never looked up to see where the ball was going. All I concentrated on was my feet. I use a 5 step delivery, and I would count off the steps in my head. Steps one and two were slow. When I got to 3, that's when I started the "2 handers skip," but still trying to keep it controlled and slower. Step 4 I was just making sure I got a solid push, and the 5th step, a good controlled slide, and start the balls downward movement when I start my slide. Keep that foot on the ground, and good things will happen.

That video Bill posted is great, defiantly watch that and try to use it as a guide. I saw it months ago, then forgot about it. I started working on my form, and watching video of me bowling, and I tried to fix what I thought was wrong. Now I watch that video, and see that everything I was trying to fix where the exact elements pointed out in that video. That made me happy cause I was working on the right things, and figured them out on my own.

Can you please tell me how to get rid of these issues?

I really want to fix my game, so tips would be awesome!!

[Kobra167]

Here's a good way to get started. You'll be surprised how well it'll work by the end of first your practice session. Start by taking slower more deliberate steps. Slide your foot release the ball following through and then finish in a nice bowlers pose. Smoothy, steady, not jumping around, or looking like you're about to fly down the lane. You know that pose when you see it. The one that says this guys knows what he's doing. Try to end up in a similar position like any of the two hander bowlers on the PBA. The combination of you walking slower, and deliberately trying to finish in a good position(pose), will slow everything down. It will help iron out some jerkyness. That will help you keep your balance. You'll throw the ball a little slower and it'll have a little less revs. But you'll have greater control which will help with accuracy. And overtime, the closer you get to maintaining good balance and form, the speed and revs will come back. It's not a quick fix, but it'll get you to a more managable place to work on it.

[I suck at bowling]

Here's a good way to get started. You'll be surprised how well it'll work by the end of first your practice session. Start by taking slower more deliberate steps. Slide your foot release the ball following through and then finish in a nice bowlers pose. Smoothy, steady, not jumping around, or looking like you're about to fly down the lane. You know that pose when you see it. The one that says this guys knows what he's doing. Try to end up in a similar position like any of the two hander bowlers on the PBA. The combination of you walking slower, and deliberately trying to finish in a good position(pose), will slow everything down. It will help iron out some jerkyness. That will help you keep your balance. You'll throw the ball a little slower and it'll have a little less revs. But you'll have greater control which will help with accuracy. And overtime, the closer you get to maintaining good balance and form, the speed and revs will come back. It's not a quick fix, but it'll get you to a more managable place to work on it.

Thanks man! I've trying to slow my footwork down, but its hard to break bad habits, lol.

I'm gonna work super hard on this till I get it down.

[Kobra167]

Old habits do die hard. You'll have to be cognizant of it for a while. Some people say you have to do something a new upwards to 2000+ times in order to fully uninstall bad old "muscle memory". Don't set aim at doing it 2000 times, just know it will take a while before you'll do the new you without having to think about. Create a game plan for how you're going to practice and monitor it. Work on it smartly and you'll be there in no time.

[RoccoRock]

Good stuff Kobra, I was going to say a lot of the same things. Slow deliberate steps, watch your feet, forget where the ball is going for a few frames. The more I watch your vid, the more I see your balance isn't bad, but there's a few other things caught my eye that you may want to work on. Your right leg kicks up a lot, and I would say too much. In fact, Belmo himself had a similar issue. Watch video of him from 2009-2010, and watch his right leg. It kicks up. He worked on it one summer, and now his right foot stays close to the ground. Before, he had 1 PBA title, since he has added 5 titles. Another thing you may want to try, don't bring the ball back as far and as high. You seem to be twisting yourself up a lot, and uncoiling violently. You almost turn your back to the lane. With a lower backswing, you will still get lots of revs, and speed, but you should get more control. It also looks like you lace, and overlap your fingers on your left hand. Try going fingertip to fingertip instead, or even leave a small gap between hands. You may get the ball up as high and far, but won't be turning your shoulders so much, making your delivery smoother. Give those few things a try, and see what if looks and feels like.

[I suck at bowling]

Good stuff Kobra, I was going to say a lot of the same things. Slow deliberate steps, watch your feet, forget where the ball is going for a few frames. The more I watch your vid, the more I see your balance isn't bad, but there's a few other things caught my eye that you may want to work on. Your right leg kicks up a lot, and I would say too much. In fact, Belmo himself had a similar issue. Watch video of him from 2009-2010, and watch his right leg. It kicks up. He worked on it one summer, and now his right foot stays close to the ground. Before, he had 1 PBA title, since he has added 5 titles. Another thing you may want to try, don't bring the ball back as far and as high. You seem to be twisting yourself up a lot, and uncoiling violently. You almost turn your back to the lane. With a lower backswing, you will still get lots of revs, and speed, but you should get more control. It also looks like you lace, and overlap your fingers on your left hand. Try going fingertip to fingertip instead, or even leave a small gap between hands. You may get the ball up as high and far, but won't be turning your shoulders so much, making your delivery smoother. Give those few things a try, and see what if looks and feels like.

Yes, I do interlock my fingers, and what do you mean by fingertip to fingertip?

Do you want me to grip it like Osku? I have a friend who also bowls two handed (hes actually in the video, lol), who interlocks his fingers like that.

The big problem for me is that the same problems I have now, I had when I bowled one handed. And I've had those bad habits for 5-6 years! I must have bowled thousands of games over that span, so its going to be extremely hard for me to fix this.

But its a adventure that I'll take in stride.

[RoccoRock]

Yes, I do interlock my fingers, and what do you mean by fingertip to fingertip?

Do you want me to grip it like Osku? I have a friend who also bowls two handed (hes actually in the video, lol), who interlocks his fingers like that.

The big problem for me is that the same problems I have now, I had when I bowled one handed. And I've had those bad habits for 5-6 years! I must have bowled thousands of games over that span, so its going to be extremely hard for me to fix this.

But its a adventure that I'll take in stride.

Osku overlaps, but his fingers on his right hand is turned, so they don't lace. Belmo gives some space between his two hands. What I am doing now is the fingertip on ring finger, on my left hand touches the top of the middle finger on my right. I guess it's not fingertip to fingertip.

Change is tough, especially when your comfortable, and been doing something for a long time. Just take your time, go through everything slow and deliberate and try to get comfortable. Don't worry about my suggestion with the fingers right now if it isn't comfortable, but I would try to lower the backswing and see what happens.

[Tampabaybob]

Well, I'm going to assume that you were the first bowler on the video, only after reading the other answers. I'll agree your balance is your major problem. Oh yeah, I also think you have set a new record for coming off the floor as yo release the ball !! LOL Seriously, you need to slow down your feet. You get to the line way too soon before for ball and then you have to fight to keep your balance. At your starting position, tell yourself "Smooooooooth" before yo step off on your first step. Do that on every ball until you are able to end up balanced and be able to post your shot without looking like you're trying to kill yourself. Yes, it's tough to overcome bad habits, but if you're rally into it, you'll be able to get it slowed down.

Now, bowlers 2, 3, 4, and 5......they have different issues. Bowler three (I think) has the smoothest approach with the best "knee bend". And bowler # 5 needs to keep his slide foot straighter at the line so his shoulders won't open so much.

When you and your buddies submit videos separate the people. Only show 3 -5 frames of each bowler but only one bowler per video.

Good luck lets see a video after you slow down.

[I suck at bowling]

Well, I'm going to assume that you were the first bowler on the video, only after reading the other answers. I'll agree your balance is your major problem. Oh yeah, I also think you have set a new record for coming off the floor as yo release the ball !! LOL Seriously, you need to slow down your feet. You get to the line way too soon before for ball and then you have to fight to keep your balance. At your starting position, tell yourself "Smooooooooth" before yo step off on your first step. Do that on every ball until you are able to end up balanced and be able to post your shot without looking like you're trying to kill yourself. Yes, it's tough to overcome bad habits, but if you're rally into it, you'll be able to get it slowed down.

Now, bowlers 2, 3, 4, and 5......they have different issues. Bowler three (I think) has the smoothest approach with the best "knee bend". And bowler # 5 needs to keep his slide foot straighter at the line so his shoulders won't open so much.

When you and your buddies submit videos separate the people. Only show 3 -5 frames of each bowler but only one bowler per video.

Good luck lets see a video after you slow down.

Can you tell me the problems for each bowler? I'm sure they'd love some advice!

[RoccoRock]

From what I see with a quick look:

bowler 2: Has no knee, or waste bend at all.

bowler 3: similar to your issues, violent delivery, with that back foot kicking up way too high.

Bowler 3: also same issue with the back foot, and he never bends his elbow on the backswing.

Bowler 4: needs more knee bend, and his hand is on top of the ball the whole time.

Just what I see, others may see more than that.

[I suck at bowling]

From what I see with a quick look:

bowler 2: Has no knee, or waste bend at all.

bowler 3: similar to your issues, violent delivery, with that back foot kicking up way too high.

Bowler 4: also same issue with the back foot, and he never bends his elbow on the backswing.

Bowler 5: needs more knee bend, and his hand is on top of the ball the whole time.

Just what I see, others may see more than that.

The last bowler is my younger brother, and I want to help him out. Can you go more in depth? sorry for being a bother, lol

[RoccoRock]

The last bowler is my younger brother, and I want to help him out. Can you go more in depth? sorry for being a bother, lol

He also has the same issues with his right leg kicking up very high. As far as his release, not sure what tips I can give. There are more qualified guys on here than me to help. All I can say is he is both on top of the ball, and way off to the side. When I first started using my thumb, my hand looked similar. It took time, and concentrating on getting my hand behind the ball, and cupping my wrist a little. I still come off the side a lot one handed, but my fingers are under the ball, and my hand is behind it most of the way through my delivery.

[billf]

Your younger brother? Damn, now I have to go watch again. I can't ignore helping kids.

ROCCOROCK, keep helping. Given all you have gone through I don't think anyone else here is more qualified to offer two handed advice. You know first hand the struggles, trials and tribulations. You also know how good it is when it all works out correctly.

[I suck at bowling]

Your younger brother? Damn, now I have to go watch again. I can't ignore helping kids.

ROCCOROCK, keep helping. Given all you have gone through I don't think anyone else here is more qualified to offer two handed advice. You know first hand the struggles, trials and tribulations. You also know how good it is when it all works out correctly.


That be great man!

[billf]

I slowed the video down even more. I tried putting the text over what I saw but it wouldn't work correctly.
Look at his feet going into the slide. The push leg and foot shouldn't go at such an awful angle. The toe of the balance leg should stay on the floor, not the side of the foot. The slide foot really twists badly AFTER the release. Not a real issue but can lead to injury. The swing is severely muscled and not free. He is definitely forcing the entire swing which kills movement, accuracy and carry.


http://youtu.be/iNAVU2gH50A

[I suck at bowling]

I slowed the video down even more. I tried putting the text over what I saw but it wouldn't work correctly.
Look at his feet going into the slide. The push leg and foot shouldn't go at such an awful angle. The toe of the balance leg should stay on the floor, not the side of the foot. The slide foot really twists badly AFTER the release. Not a real issue but can lead to injury. The swing is severely muscled and not free. He is definitely forcing the entire swing which kills movement, accuracy and carry.



How do I go about telling helping him fix it?

I've told him about the "coming through the ball" and the foot, but do I explain the rest?

[billf]

Grab a bowling ball and let it swing back and forth. This will help learn a free swing by not only letting your muscles learn to relax with the weight but also train your body and brain to swing it that far. Most pro bowlers are little dudes. It's one sport where muscles aren't needed or wanted (to a point). It's not a true power sport but rather a finesse sport. The more free the swing the better the revs, speed and pin carry.

Explain all you can to him but understand he won't appear to listen until he is ready. One day the bulb will go off in his head and then he will start doing all he was told.