How do I Sub?

[unclemantis]

I have been open bowling for a couple of months and I have established a CONSISTENT average of between 160 and 170 on HTS late night practice.

Last night I went to the house to try and sub. I was told that they didn't need anyone right now and if they did he already has someone on standby from another league and he would be priority. WTF?

I hung around until the 4th frame and checked in again and the secretary said that if there was a need for a sub then I would have been known right away.

So I stayed for a game and watched a few players. Man some funny stuff at times.

So do I just keep showing up each night of the week until I luck out?

I can't invest $20 a week for a league. I was hoping to be able to sub so that I could interact with other bowlers and bowl on fresh oil and bowl for free :P

There is a whole new community about Subbing.

Thoughts folks?

[swingset]

Every house is different, if you showed up to my Saturday night mixed league any week, you'd have a spot. It's full of no-shows, we can never get them all filled.

Then I've bowled some scratch leagues where subs were more numerous than spots. Get a list of the leagues from the counter, show up on those nights and see if you can get in. That's what I used to do.

[explorer05]

You could check in every week or see their is a different league. Also find out if you have to pay for the prize fund or both. In our league the sub pays nothing the roster bowler pays it. That way it easy to divide the money at the end of the year. It is up to the roster bowler that he or she sub for wants to give them money. Good luck!!

[Fuzzifus]

I bowl 3 leagues a week. I have never, in my time bowling, asked some random fellow who showed up at the lanes to sub. Generally, I have enough friends and others that can fill in if I need someone.

[scottymoney]

If you can't invest $20 a week, I think you need to find another sport.
Whatever you do don't take up golf cause those fees will kill you!

[e-tank]

If you can't invest $20 a week, I think you need to find another sport.
Whatever you do don't take up golf cause those fees will kill you!

arent there cheaper leagues as well? I know my house had a pizza and beer league for $10 a week

and i agree with fuzzifus, i havent been bowling long but if one of my teammates or myself miss a day we just make it up

if you were trying to join a half filled team that would be a different story but you said you cant pay for league fees

[CeKnauss]

As I alluded in your other thread, social connections mean more to league bowlers than most things, as most of them are there to socialize, unless it is a sport or competitive league. People they recognize will have priority. I too have been turned down just because people don't know me, but you have to accept this and just get to know people.

League bowlers don't mind paying for their subs as the sub doesn't get prize fund in the end, but if they know you just want to bowl for free or even get that impression, they won't ask you to sub. They see it as disrespect. It appears as though you are more interested in bowling for free than bowling for the team and for fun.

Even though you consistently average that during open play doesn't mean people have any reason to believe you. Only once you prove it in league and have a certified average will people believe. I know this sounds rough, but open play averages don't really mean much to most people. I learned this very quickly. You'll hear a lot of people state things like: "Well you talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?"

Finally, if you want to get noticed, you have to go more than that one night. If you keep returning just one night a week and keep asking the same people who seemed disinterested the first and subsequent times, you will likely get a bad rap.

Best tip: go to meet new people, to have fun, and most of all, don't be disappointed if at first you don't succeed.

[ArtVandelay]

I completely agree with the money aspect. If you go to sub, you should probably be prepared to pay full price and even buy a beer or two as gratitude towards the team you bowl with. THAT would make you REALLY popular in our league. Hahahaha.

But dont be discouraged. The league im in rarely has open spots. You might just go to the bowling alley, and leave your name and number. Explain that you are relatively new to the area and missed the start up, but you would like the league secretaries to have your info because you would love to sub on occasion. Or ask them if they know of any leagues having trouble filling spots and if you may contact the secretaries of those leagues. Most open leagues have reachable secretaries and sometimes those secretaries actually work for the alley.

But you may have also come to the wrong night. My league is a company league. If you dont work for the company, or know someone who does, you arent eligible. And thats not to be mean, its just because the company pays for a portion of the lineage so we dont have to pay quite as much. They want their money to benefit their people. So you may have just showed up on the wrong night.

Good luck.

[Fuzzifus]

I can't invest $20 a week for a league. I was hoping to be able to sub so that I could interact with other bowlers and bowl on fresh oil and bowl for free :P



This comment also irks me. You want all the benefits of a league, for free. True, when I call in a sub I cover the league fee for them, but they usually do offer to pay it though I do not let them.

[unclemantis]

This comment also irks me. You want all the benefits of a league, for free. True, when I call in a sub I cover the league fee for them, but they usually do offer to pay it though I do not let them.

First off. THANK YOU for the kind and harsh words. These replies are what I expect from this board and the reason that I continue to return and interact and ask for help. The tough love helps.

The economy is tough for me tright now so if I can help to not pay for bowling as much as I have been for open bowling then I would love to.

The idea of NOT wanting to pay is the reason of Subbing is half true. I would be willing to sub and buy a few beers.

I spend about $15 to $30 a week for opening bowling of about 3 to 5 games per visit.

I feel I am good enough to start scoring sanctioned games. Also since the season has already started I figured subbing would be a good idea now and then.

i am not ready to commit to a full season investment.

With all that said I guess I just need to keep trying. I will try once a night at one house and then the next week try once a night at another house.

Don't get me wrong. I love to see other people bowl but I am not a very social person and I have a hard time approaching strangers.

Any other ideas? I my eyes are open!

Again thank you again!

[Fuzzifus]

My replies, though they may sound harsh, are not meant to be. I simply get perturbed by people doing things the wrong way for the wrong reasons. I can appreciate that you have a passion for this sport that most of us on this site love.

[unclemantis]

My replies, though they may sound harsh, are not meant to be. I simply get perturbed by people doing things the wrong way for the wrong reasons. I can appreciate that you have a passion for this sport that most of us on this site love.

I APPRECIATE the harsh words and you guys helping to push me into the right direction. Again I come into this topic clueless. I have NEVER subbed. I only know what I know :)

[bjeffe1234]

A lot of bowling centers have special league rates for league bowlers and most of the time don't distinguish between subs and rostered bowlers (you still show up on the recap sheet). When they see you bowling league nights, they see you as a league bowler. So, depending on how often you open bowl, you can actually save quite a bit.

Another thought, you can offer to pay the lineage for the person that you are replacing. They can pay the prize fund portion. That way they don't feel taken advantage of.

[unclemantis]

A lot of bowling centers have special league rates for league bowlers and most of the time don't distinguish between subs and rostered bowlers (you still show up on the recap sheet). When they see you bowling league nights, they see you as a league bowler. So, depending on how often you open bowl, you can actually save quite a bit.

Another thought, you can offer to pay the lineage for the person that you are replacing. They can pay the prize fund portion. That way they don't feel taken advantage of.

I would have to enter a leauge to get the special rates. If I sub I won't get the rates? I won't mind paying my way if need be but again it is the commitment issue as well as i even if I do join a leauge and after a few weeks i am not happy with one of the players then I can't back out.

[ecub]

As most have already concluded, it will be difficult to find a team that requires a sub. If the league already started in the Fall (August/September) 2012, then teams have already been established, INCLUDING subs. People understand work schedules, illness, etc. so along with establishing regular players, they establish who their subs will be. A team is normally usually already determined prior to the summer of 2012. A normal team roster, will probably consist of 6-8 bowlers, even if it's a 4-5 person per team league. Even if a team is still in need a sub, they may know other bowlers from other leagues that could bowl as well. Unfortunately, FRIENDS ARE ALWAYS PREFERRED THAN STRANGERS. This is more so for competitive leagues.

Of course, some bowling centers have leagues that start late in the year (January/February 2013). You may still be able to find a spot to sub. Whatever the case, the easier way to find out is when you visit a bowling center, ask to see if you can get league standings for the leagues there. This sheet will tell you what teams are in what place, bowlers/teams scores, averages, etc. Look for a team with normally allowed number of bowlers. What I mean is, if it's a 5 person team, look for a team that has ONLY 5 people. Look under the column for GAMES, which maybe abbreviated as GMS, GAM, etc. If you see a team where majority have allot of games, while 1 or 2 people have less, then I'm sure that team WILL require a sub. You can probably approach that team and ask them.

One thing to keep in mind, even though you can probably only spend about $20/week and if by chance you do get to sub for a team, be prepared to buy a round of drinks or 2 or maybe even buy food. The idea is for the team to know you and like you.

[unclemantis]

As most have already concluded, it will be difficult to find a team that requires a sub. If the league already started in the Fall (August/September) 2012, then teams have already been established, INCLUDING subs. People understand work schedules, illness, etc. so along with establishing regular players, they establish who their subs will be. A team is normally usually already determined prior to the summer of 2012. A normal team roster, will probably consist of 6-8 bowlers, even if it's a 4-5 person per team league. Even if a team is still in need a sub, they may know other bowlers from other leagues that could bowl as well. Unfortunately, FRIENDS ARE ALWAYS PREFERRED THAN STRANGERS. This is more so for competitive leagues.

Of course, some bowling centers have leagues that start late in the year (January/February 2013). You may still be able to find a spot to sub. Whatever the case, the easier way to find out is when you visit a bowling center, ask to see if you can get league standings for the leagues there. This sheet will tell you what teams are in what place, bowlers/teams scores, averages, etc. Look for a team with normally allowed number of bowlers. What I mean is, if it's a 5 person team, look for a team that has ONLY 5 people. Look under the column for GAMES, which maybe abbreviated as GMS, GAM, etc. If you see a team where majority have allot of games, while 1 or 2 people have less, then I'm sure that team WILL require a sub. You can probably approach that team and ask them.

One thing to keep in mind, even though you can probably only spend about $20/week and if by chance you do get to sub for a team, be prepared to buy a round of drinks or 2 or maybe even buy food. The idea is for the team to know you and like you.

Seems to me at this point that it is going to be more of a pain to sub than to just sign up for a league. But then that proves a problem in finding a team that will take me.

I have not bowled in a league in over 15 years and the last time I bowled in a league it has always been with my mother and grandfather and 1 or 2 other people.

I wonder when the next season starts. Here is a link to the area that I am currently residing http://www.leaguesecretary.com/bowling-alleys/bowling-alleys-in-rhode-island/40/1/1/bowling-alleys-by-state.aspx

[bowl1820]

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/sports-bowling/0073.gifI have to say your all making subbing sound more difficult than it is.http://www.animated-gifs.eu/sports-bowling/0073.gif

If you want to "sub" (fill in that night for a missing bowler) All you have to do is go down to the bowling alley before a league starts bowling that night.

1-Stop at the front desk tell them your there to sub if a team needs sub. and/or go see the league secretary and ask/tell them.

2-Walk up and down and look at the monitors see if a team has a blind, stop and ask them if they want a sub.

Then wait and see, If no one needs you, then go home try again some other night or every night if your want. (subbing on every league you can is a great way to get experience on different conditions.)

FYI:
1-A lot of leagues have whats called "Roaming subs" this means you can bowl on any team that needs you.

2-Some leagues don't allow roaming subs but have teams with "Rosters" these are teams with a set number of bowlers they can have. if you sub on them you can only sub for that team . (Example 4 regular players and 2 sub's)

3- Paying: most leagues don't make subs pay. Some might, most don't.

4- Some teams might make you pay that's between you and them. Most teams don't, but they might.

5- If you don't have a USBC card you have to get one, the league secretary will give you the form .fill it out and pay for it and they'll give you a temp. card till you get your in the mail.

6- If you sub most places consider you a league bowler and you get the league bowler rates they offer.

7- Entering average: open bowling average is meaningless. The league has it's own rules for entering averages, they'll tell you what to do.

8- looking at the standing sheets is a waste of time to see if someone needs a sub. Now it can help you see if a team needs a regular full time bowler(they have a vacancy, lost a bowler etc.)

9- Most leagues also don't allow "subs" on certain nights (position rounds, last two weeks of bowling)

[billf]

One thing that can help is being courteous and friendly with the alley staff. After being there so much while on waiting for me eyesight to heal I became friends with all the employees. People started hearing about the blind guy bowling 40 games or more a day and averaging 195 on the Monday Mens league. Before long my phone was going nuts with people asking if I would sub if they gave me a ride (blind people shouldn't drive).
Subbing so much is what actually got me my initial core group of clients to coach.

If there are any open lanes while the league is bowling, then bowl. Show them what you can do. While trying not to be obvious, they will watch. My first non-sanctioned 300 was done this way. Not to sub but to practice during the summer league. When I turned around after the last throw the entire league was standing there. It wasn't too long after that they talked me into bowling in that league too.

[unclemantis]

One thing that can help is being courteous and friendly with the alley staff. After being there so much while on waiting for me eyesight to heal I became friends with all the employees. People started hearing about the blind guy bowling 40 games or more a day and averaging 195 on the Monday Mens league. Before long my phone was going nuts with people asking if I would sub if they gave me a ride (blind people shouldn't drive).
Subbing so much is what actually got me my initial core group of clients to coach.

If there are any open lanes while the league is bowling, then bowl. Show them what you can do. While trying not to be obvious, they will watch. My first non-sanctioned 300 was done this way. Not to sub but to practice during the summer league. When I turned around after the last throw the entire league was standing there. It wasn't too long after that they talked me into bowling in that league too.

That is a neat idea.

Problem is the lanes that separate the league from open bowling during that time is about 4 lanes. Also no guarantee I will be on the lane closest. I will give it a try once a week.

[billf]

I have been open bowling for a couple of months and I have established a CONSISTENT average of between 160 and 170 on HTS late night practice.


An average is just that. If I were to run into you at the bowling alley and you said your average was between 160 and 170 I would look right at you and say, "So only 165" and walk away. Why? Because an average isn't about, around or between any two numbers. It is what it is. You keep your games on your app on your phone so it will give you your actual, up to the date, right now, average. It won't say between, around or about but a real number. Those are facts and a "real" or "serious" bowler that wants to sub on my team had better know his average at a minimum.

We do have a guy with a 185 average and another at 164 on our team. I don't mind averages that low in a handicap league but I do need to know what I can realistically expect out of any player on my team on any given night. If it's a situation where I know ahead of time that I need to make up an average of 15 extra pins a game I need to know that BEFORE hand, not after. There was one day a teammate was injured at work. He wanted to bowl and I'm always OK with that. He said he would probably be about 30 pins under average though and would sit out if we wanted. Derrick and I both said "I got it" at the same time. Rod bowled an average of 15 pins under each game but Derrick and I both shot in the 790s destroying the other team. That doesn't mean that there aren't any off games. There always will be for any of us but they are the exception not the rule. Am I making any sense?

[ArtVandelay]

I spend about $15 to $30 a week for opening bowling of about 3 to 5 games per visit...

........................................

...i am not ready to commit to a full season investment.


Youre spending about what I spend to bowl a week. I pay $13 for the league, and I always buy my team a bucket of beer which either costs about $24 after a tip, or a week of blood farts... I hate the markup at my alley. But I only bowl once a week, 3 games, all in league. For me, thats about all my schedule will allow. I can get a better value open bowling on discounted times, but I enjoy league more.

You know what? Start an excel sheet. Make an exact list of how much you are spending on bowling per week. You have 2 to 3 months to get your budget together before summer leagues start. If you can really afford $15-30 a week for bowling, you can probably afford a league once or maybe even twice a week. Now, you would have to drink water, but if that floats your boat, then why not?

[SmilingBowler]

An average is just that. If I were to run into you at the bowling alley and you said your average was between 160 and 170 I would look right at you and say, "So only 165" and walk away. Why? Because an average isn't about, around or between any two numbers. It is what it is. You keep your games on your app on your phone so it will give you your actual, up to the date, right now, average. It won't say between, around or about but a real number. Those are facts and a "real" or "serious" bowler that wants to sub on my team had better know his average at a minimum.

We do have a guy with a 185 average and another at 164 on our team. I don't mind averages that low in a handicap league but I do need to know what I can realistically expect out of any player on my team on any given night. If it's a situation where I know ahead of time that I need to make up an average of 15 extra pins a game I need to know that BEFORE hand, not after. There was one day a teammate was injured at work. He wanted to bowl and I'm always OK with that. He said he would probably be about 30 pins under average though and would sit out if we wanted. Derrick and I both said "I got it" at the same time. Rod bowled an average of 15 pins under each game but Derrick and I both shot in the 790s destroying the other team. That doesn't mean that there aren't any off games. There always will be for any of us but they are the exception not the rule. Am I making any sense?

Personally, I'm obsessed with tracking my progress. As I just said on Twitter a moment ago, I have 8 different apps on my iPhone for scoring bowling games. Some I'm still testing out, but I really like the one I recently found here mentioned in the POST YOUR SCORES sticky thread. My blog here is now designed to keep my stats for my record and for all those others who are curious about my success. I feel the best way to improve is to focus on the positive. So, the more and more I can look at my best scores, the more likely they are to happen.

When it comes to paying for my leagues, the Monday Night Mens League is a money league. $20/week and everyone on a team roster gets paid at the end of the year, based on games played, team finish, personal bests and other accolades. The Thursday Night Mixed is a banquet league. $17/week with prize money and an Open Bar, all you can eat buffet banquet at the end of the season. The Wednesday Night Mixed Non-Sanctioned League is just $13/week and a nice banquet with neat door prizes (like bowling towels, a bottle of ball cleaner, etc.) and we usually have a Pin Boy and Pin Gal - where they dress up pins and honor a bowler for whatever they choose. $50/week in bowling isn't bad in my book, especially knowing I can get a hefty chunk back between the USBC leagues.

Another bonus, because I'm a league member at our local house, I can bowl practice games for $1 9-11AM on Sunday mornings. This has helped big time. These are the times that I may play alternate games, like aiming to shoot Brooklyn to set up different, uncommon spares or playing "Catch 22" which you've probably seen me talk about on other posts here. All in all its worth it. The more I bowl, the more I can focus on my strengths and knock out the little things before they become weaknesses.