I hate tournaments

[ghoul31]

I just discovered this great bowling deal at an alley across town. You get a lane from 9am to 12pm Sunday for $16. That a great deal
But when I went there they said there is no open bowling on sunday mornings for the next month because of a State Tournament.

The alley has 64 lanes, 32 on each side. And there was like 7 lanes on each side not being used.
So I said what about all those unused lanes?
And they said they weren't allowed to use them

Its stupid to let all those lanes go to waste.
I guess they don't want the scummy open bowlers bothering the high class tournament people.

[backlasher]

Sometimes the lanes will be used later or the tournament reserved all the lanes and they aren't really "open".

[75lockwood]

I just discovered this great bowling deal at an alley across town. You get a lane from 9am to 12pm Sunday for $16. That a great deal
But when I went there they said there is no open bowling on sunday mornings for the next month because of a State Tournament.

The alley has 64 lanes, 32 on each side. And there was like 7 lanes on each side not being used.
So I said what about all those unused lanes?
And they said they weren't allowed to used them

Its stupid to let all those lanes go to waste.
I guess they don't want the scummy open bowlers bothering the high class tournament people.


To play Devil's advocate, it makes some sense, if you were bowling in a tournament in a key match that could win you $10,000, and you must strike to win, and all of a sudden a 6 year old comes running up beside you and slams the ball onto the lane causing you to loose focus for a split second and pull the ball through the nose. you would be pretty ticked correct?

The tournament would have been rented the entire ally when they agreed to hold it there (which makes the center a lot of money)

[billf]

For large tournaments, such as a State tournament, the entire center is rented so technically the lanes aren't "open".
Even if they were the last thing I want as a tournament bowler is to have to walk through spilled food and/or drink, lack of lane courtesy, questions to improve that person's game or the worst, suggestions to improve my game. There is a time and place for all those things amd while I'm bowling for money isn't the time or place.
Now the above doesn't apply to all open bowlers but at the same time it's against the law for an establishment to pick and choose who they would let use those open lanes. That's how the policy of renting an entire center came to be.
It's really no different than not letting open bowlers on the lanes adjacent to a league while they are competing.

[billf]

BTW, I love tournaments. Pays for all my gear and fees for leagues for the year.

[bowl1820]

Also for large tournaments.

The tournament may of had them reserve those lanes in case of possible break downs, last minute entries, shifting lanes during the tournament.

Instead having sourgrape's about it, look at as a possible opportunity.

Go down during the team and doubles events and try to sub.

It happens a bowler can't make it, the team is short or somebody's doubles partner is not there and the spot is payed for already. I've done it a few times.

It's good tournament experience.

[ghoul31]

Go down during the team and doubles events and try to sub.



I just started bowling recently. I'm not good enough yet to be in a tournament.

I'm just trying to find some deals so I can get better without spending a fortune.

[e-tank]

BTW, I love tournaments. Pays for all my gear and fees for leagues for the year.

just out of curiosity, i saw you post a couple days ago about how your average was 224 in a tourney. Would you say having an average that high is normal to pull out a win? im aware every tourney is different and have different skilled people but im just talking on a normal basis.

[greycat]

just out of curiosity, i saw you post a couple days ago about how your average was 224 in a tourney. Would you say having an average that high is normal to pull out a win? im aware every tourney is different and have different skilled people but im just talking on a normal basis.

That's a loaded question because you don't know if handicap is used the lane conditions or format. The last few tourneys I've bowled the best average didn't win and they were scratch events. The reason was due to format top 8 do brackets so the best average doesn't always win. Average only matter when handicap is involved if you are in a scratch event best that day cashes. Consistency matters hit you mark, make every spare, know your best ball layouts for lane conditions. If you count every strike as a good throw you will be destroyed in any event with capable bowlers on any pattern. You will be amazed when a great bowler locks into their line and makes rows of X's when you are squirting balls everywhere (3 board misses is all it takes).

As for state the score to win varies depending on the venue(s). In my state this year the scores will be well over 800 in singles and doubles close to the current record 1575 because the location and what bowlers live in my state. Team maybe over 3700 and all-events 2300. For me I've only thrown 700+ in that house 2 times this year but I'm proud of the guys I setup for team and doubles.

[Hammer]

I can understand not wanting to have open bowlers bowling during a tournament. They are bowling for money and don't want the distraction of an open bowler running up there to make a shot when someone in the tournament needs a strike in the 10th frame to win.
Hence the reason for no lanes open for open bowlers. I can understand that.

[ghoul31]

But bowling is a dying sport

How are you supposed to grow the game if every alley has 20 lanes open all day , but doesn't let anyone use them?

[bowl1820]

But bowling is a dying sport

How are you supposed to grow the game if every alley has 20 lanes open all day , but doesn't let anyone use them?

Every alley doesn't have 20 lanes open all day. State tournaments happen only once a year and most of the time rotate around to different houses each year.

So just find the next best deal there or at another house or another night and when the tournament is done go back.

[e-tank]

That's a loaded question because you don't know if handicap is used the lane conditions or format. The last few tourneys I've bowled the best average didn't win and they were scratch events. The reason was due to format top 8 do brackets so the best average doesn't always win. Average only matter when handicap is involved if you are in a scratch event best that day cashes. Consistency matters hit you mark, make every spare, know your best ball layouts for lane conditions. If you count every strike as a good throw you will be destroyed in any event with capable bowlers on any pattern. You will be amazed when a great bowler locks into their line and makes rows of X's when you are squirting balls everywhere (3 board misses is all it takes).

As for state the score to win varies depending on the venue(s). In my state this year the scores will be well over 800 in singles and doubles close to the current record 1575 because the location and what bowlers live in my state. Team maybe over 3700 and all-events 2300. For me I've only thrown 700+ in that house 2 times this year but I'm proud of the guys I setup for team and doubles.

haha yea i kinda figured it was a loaded question but i was looking for a generalized statement. I had no idea there were a ton of different formats for tournaments so i guess there really is no way to get a generalized statement as a wanted.

[SouthpawTRK]

If there are any AMF centers in your area, they always have some kind of special that runs during the week/weekend. They would be your best bet in regards to being able to practice a lot for not a lot of money. If you don't have an AMF near you, I'm sure that there are bowling centers that have specials during the weekday; probably either early morning or later in the evening.

While it can be frustrating to not be able to bowl when you want due to tournaments and/or league; it's part of how bowling centers make their income and also to grow the sport.

Eventually, there could be a day when you want to either join a league or enter a tournament; at that point the shoe might be on the other foot. You may be glad that there is not some bowling next to you that is having fun, but pays no never mind to bowling etiquette.

You should consider joining a league; even if you just started; it's a lot of fun and a great way to help the sport grow. An added plus is that you can receive league discounts for bowling fees; a great way to not only save some money, but become more familiar with the lanes you bowl at.

[ghoul31]

While it can be frustrating to not be able to bowl when you want due to tournaments and/or league; it's part of how bowling centers make their income and also to grow the sport.




I can see leaving one lane open as a buffer between leagues/tournaments and open bowlers. But 15 lanes?

I remember when I was younger, me and my friends would go to a bowling alley, and they never seemed to have open bowling, and yet there were always 15 empty lanes.
And it always pissed me off. And eventually we stopped trying to bowl.

It makes bowling very casual unfriendly. How does that grow the sport?

If you have a 45 lane alley and are only allowed to use 30 lanes, then why not just build a 30 lane alley?
But I guess then you would only be allowed to use 15 lanes.

Because having 15 lanes that you are never allowed to use grows the sport? :confused:

[striker12]

well the one thing that happens here where i live but i dont bowl here no more they will have a league and have 10 lanes open and they say those lanes are for the league when there lanes break down umm thats gives you a idea that the bowling alley is junk if they need that many lanes for broken lanes.

[ShortChanged]

I bowl in tournaments as often as I can. It's not so bad! Though I can understand your frustrations...

[billf]

It's no different then when a company or organization rents the alley and then doesn't have the turn out they had hoped for. The lanes go unused. It's at the discretion to who paid for the lanes. Just as you could rent two or more lanes when you go bowling and then they wouldn't be able to rent them out then either.

As for entering a tournament without much experience, there use to be many times Derrick and myself would be left without a doubles partner (no call, no show). We would need our pins to count towards the all events category but would have to forfeit. Now we are doubles partners so it doesn't happen. We also bowl two teams of league together. But in a case like we had, we wouldn't care if you bowled a 50. It sucks paying the entry fee and having to not only forfeit a section of the event but then knowing it's impossible to place in another.

[billf]

just out of curiosity, i saw you post a couple days ago about how your average was 224 in a tourney. Would you say having an average that high is normal to pull out a win? im aware every tourney is different and have different skilled people but im just talking on a normal basis.

Usuall, like this past weekend, 224 won't cut it to win. Most of the handicap tournaments around here are 80% of 220. This past one was 90% of 220. I got no pins. A sandbagger came in, rolled a 690 his first three games and got 120 pins in handicap. That actually beat the guy who averaged 260. We all made that cut but the sandbagger won the whole thing. He didn't roll a single game under 220 all day. I usually place high enough to place in the payouts.

Scratch tournaments, I'm not good enough....yet. There was one tournament that in match play I lost 279-289. Placement of the spare was the difference.

Either way, I bowl all the tournaments I can. It's to the point where I don't feel any nerves or out of place anywhere I'm at. Much different than the first time I bowled away from my home center.

[GeoLes]

Here's the scenario: You have signed up for tournament and just before you bowl you realize that there is some clown who does not know what he is doing on the adjacent lane distracting you while you have money riding on your performance. I hate not-tournament bowlers.

Lanes make big $$$$ holding tournaments. Consider your lucky to be able to bowl. While at it, I would watch them bowl and see what I can learn.

[ghoul31]

H. I hate not-tournament bowlers.

L

Well at least the truth is out. League and tournament bowlers hate open bowlers.

So they have to ban open bowlers and leave half the lanes empty because the the league and tournament bowlers hate them so much.


And people wonder why this sport is dying.

[I suck at bowling]

Well at least the truth is out. League and tournament bowlers hate open bowlers.

So they have to ban open bowlers and leave half the lanes empty because the the league and tournament bowlers hate them so much.


And people wonder why this sport is dying.

You're not understanding what everyone is saying.

Tournament bowlers are very serious, and tournaments are a big deal. These are our moments that we cherish. They should not be tarnished by open bowlers bowling next to us. Having ADHD makes paying attention hard enough for me, I don't need people who won't be courteous and will proceed to be distracting bowling near me.

[e-tank]

Usuall, like this past weekend, 224 won't cut it to win. Most of the handicap tournaments around here are 80% of 220. This past one was 90% of 220. I got no pins. A sandbagger came in, rolled a 690 his first three games and got 120 pins in handicap. That actually beat the guy who averaged 260. We all made that cut but the sandbagger won the whole thing. He didn't roll a single game under 220 all day. I usually place high enough to place in the payouts.

Scratch tournaments, I'm not good enough....yet. There was one tournament that in match play I lost 279-289. Placement of the spare was the difference.

Either way, I bowl all the tournaments I can. It's to the point where I don't feel any nerves or out of place anywhere I'm at. Much different than the first time I bowled away from my home center.

Ah i see. When my alley posts up tournament info theyre usually half scratch half handicap im assuming to combat sandbaggers? Im gonna try out a tournament regardless but i just thought id get as estimate of the quality of bowlers.

[bowl1820]

Ah i see. When my alley posts up tournament info theyre usually half scratch half handicap im assuming to combat sandbaggers? Im gonna try out a tournament regardless but i just thought id get as estimate of the quality of bowlers.

The tournaments don't have scratch and handicap to combat sandbaggers. Having a scratch division would have no effect on sandbagging.

[e-tank]

The tournaments don't have scratch and handicap to combat sandbaggers. Having a scratch division would have no effect on sandbagging.

no i mean say you play 6 games, half would be scratch half would be handicap. I assumed it would combat sandbagging because the the good bowlers could shine in the scratch games and no one could rely on handicap

[bowl1820]

no i mean say you play 6 games, half would be scratch half would be handicap. I assumed it would combat sandbagging because the the good bowlers could shine in the scratch games and no one could rely on handicap

Never seen a format like that, I don't see it affecting the sandbagger though. (It might depend on just exactly what the rules were.)

Because the "Good bowlers" would not only have to beat them in the last 3 games, they'd still have to over come the handicap scores of the sandbaggers from the first 3 games. And the sandbaggers would still be bowling good/over average for the last 3.

[e-tank]

Never seen a format like that, I don't see it affecting the sandbagger though. (It might depend on just exactly what the rules were.)

Because the "Good bowlers" would not only have to beat them in the last 3 games, they'd still have to over come the handicap scores of the sandbaggers from the first 3 games. And the sandbaggers would still be bowling good/over average for the last 3.

ah okay. Makes sense

[swingset]

I wouldn't hate the tournament if I were you, I'd hate the bowling alley for hosting it to the exclusion of the open bowlers. What does the tournament have to do with you? Your frustration seems to be at the center and their respect of the conditions of the tourney.

The answer of course is to open your own bowling alley and see how long you last only doing open bowling. Good luck with that.

[billf]

Well at least the truth is out. League and tournament bowlers hate open bowlers.

So they have to ban open bowlers and leave half the lanes empty because the the league and tournament bowlers hate them so much.


And people wonder why this sport is dying.

that's right, the sport is dying because when I have a chance to win $5,000 I don't want some kid running up on me or some clown screaming at my release. I don't hate open bowlers but very much dislike self-absorbed, disrespectful who even after lane courtesy is explained to them, still refuse to show any. Yes, I've had kids get hit by my back swing during league (parents/adult were open bowling and not watching the toddler) and have gone off on some teens who kept running up on the approach during position round. I also blamed the staff who put them on an adjacent lane and left the end lane next to them open. As I explained to everyone in the zip code that night, it was more the fault of the staff than the people attempting to bowl.

BTW, I practice around 100 games a week with open bowlers all around me. Anything goes then or so it seems.

[Gunz1911]

I agree that it stinks wanting to go bowl but unable to because of leagues or tournements. Where I am at, on Fridays the entire alley is closed for open bowl from 5-9 for leagues. It does stink, but I get over it, because when I join those leagues I am going to want that buffer between me and the open bowlers.
It's kinda like wanting to go play basketball with my friend's but their is a highschool game going on. I can either go home, watch the game or pout that I can't play. Cause I don't think the team would appreciate me trying to play on the court next to them.

[GeoLes]

I have to agree with the economics of having tournaments. My local lane is a National bowling center. I have never seen a tourmanent there, with the exception of the occasional local High School competition In order to keep the lights on, they have to fill the lanes, so weekends are lots, and lots of kiddie parties and the occasonal corporate party. If you can find a lane available on the weekend they tend to have dirty approaches, ntreated lanes, lots of distacting kids, etc. That is the dynamic of "Family Bowlling". Great for short practice sessions, but if you want to roll on fresh oil, forget it. I think of tournament as a blessing. Once the tournament is done, you still have a decent lane. Count your blesslings.

[americantrotter]

I remember being 11-16 when I was more innocent and less self reliant for transportation. Having league nights at bowling alleys really grinded my gears (insert Family Guy picture here)

In my early 30's I now encounter issues trying to bowl on "open" times and it drives me nuts. (I'd love to practice when leagues arent bowling in relative peace, but I understand that's their open moneymaking time)

What is more important? It's hard to say, but any recreational activity that uses a court a lane or a field has these issues. Having an easy way to find out if lanes are available is a much better idea. An app, or a website would be huge. We can't all get what we want. Bowling isn't dying because your alley wouldnt let you use 7 lanes, it's dying because it's governing bodies and individual centers still don't know how to embrace the individual with technology and avoid these instances as much as possible.

I understand your frustration, but hating people you don't know is a little childish. Especially if there are more houses available to you. I live in Maine and my alley is hosting states by order from the USBC. There goes the only 32 lane alley within an hour for about 5 weekend mornings and afternoons. Oh, well. I'd rather have a USBC center than not.

[SmilingBowler]

When it comes to practice and getting the best conditions possible, your best option is to go early in the mornings. My Dad & I practice 9-10:30 AM on Sundays and get three games in often before most kids even roll out of bed. The lanes are open to anyone, most parties and charity events start after 11. Only us bowling nuts committed to improving our game are there within 5 minutes of the doors opening.

Tournaments are what keeps the game growing and termed a sport.