Irritated with league

[Keithalw]

So this coming up week is the posistion round. Me and my team mate are in second with four losses down to first place. Im irritated cause last week they bowled some people who they are friends with and the guy purposly throws two gutters on the tenth frame to let them win.... Even the guy fromfirst place team comes to us and admits that he couldnt even look at us cause he had a "feeling" the other guy dumped the game.... me my teammate and the other guy whos on the first place teame even thinks that... Ok so that pisses me off but what makes it worse is this week if we go in and sweep them all four we will be tied for first. They automaticly get to go to the roll off cause there pin count is a little higher than ours... Does that seem fair? This si first time its happened during league. Iknow that the first half it could have happened but we lost one game and the sectary said that it would be a one game roll off but now it goes on who ever has most pin fall... I feel like there should be one game roll off if we sweep them and tie with them... I know thats how I feel and how it would have happened at the first half... I looked in the bi laws but saw nothing of this less I am over looking it. Am I just irritated bout nothing? Am I wrong to think itd be fair to do a one game roll off if we sweep them and tie for first? I dont see where the pin fall would matter less the league was scratch but its handicapped. I just want some of your thoughts and opinions I mean it is what it is but it is aggravating to me anyways. Again I might be loooking into nothing and irritated over nothing

[The German Shepherd]

That would seem to me to fall under USBC rule 115a and may be cause for a forfeiture. Please contact your league officers and make an official complaint.

Jay

[J Anderson]

So this coming up week is the posistion round. Me and my team mate are in second with four losses down to first place. Im irritated cause last week they bowled some people who they are friends with and the guy purposly throws two gutters on the tenth frame to let them win.... Even the guy fromfirst place team comes to us and admits that he couldnt even look at us cause he had a "feeling" the other guy dumped the game.... me my teammate and the other guy whos on the first place teame even thinks that... Ok so that pisses me off but what makes it worse is this week if we go in and sweep them all four we will be tied for first. They automaticly get to go to the roll off cause there pin count is a little higher than ours... Does that seem fair? This si first time its happened during league. Iknow that the first half it could have happened but we lost one game and the sectary said that it would be a one game roll off but now it goes on who ever has most pin fall... I feel like there should be one game roll off if we sweep them and tie with them... I know thats how I feel and how it would have happened at the first half... I looked in the bi laws but saw nothing of this less I am over looking it. Am I just irritated bout nothing? Am I wrong to think itd be fair to do a one game roll off if we sweep them and tie for first? I dont see where the pin fall would matter less the league was scratch but its handicapped. I just want some of your thoughts and opinions I mean it is what it is but it is aggravating to me anyways. Again I might be loooking into nothing and irritated over nothing

What respect. He thought so much of his friends' ability that he dumped the game because his friends might not be able to win on their own. My friends are much more likely to say you've got to beat us to stay in first.

[bowl1820]

Am I wrong to think it'd be fair to do a one game roll off if we sweep them and tie for first?

No your not wrong.

Total pin fall can't be used to break ties. This is covered under USBC rule Rule 113 – Roll-offs/Playoffs/Special Contests.

NOTE: Total pins for the season, segment or team average cannot break position standing ties at the
conclusion of the season, or at the end of any segment of a split season schedule.

Commonly Asked Questions – Rule 113a.
13a/2 When there is a tie for the league championship, can a league adopt a rule stating total
pins for the season will break the tie?
No, according to the NOTE in Rule 113a, total pins for the season cannot be used to break a tie
for any place in the position standings. A league may adopt a rule to allow for co-champions,
thus eliminating the need for a roll-off, but not one that would use total pins. See Rule 113b for
roll-off procedures.

[bowl1820]

That would seem to me to fall under USBC rule 115a and may be cause for a forfeiture. Please contact your league officers and make an official complaint.

Jay

Rule 115a. Dismissal of a League Officer or Player
A league member can file a written charge asking for removal of a league officer or
dismissal of a player.

Would have no bearing on this.


Rule 17 – Grounds for Disciplinary Action would be closer.
17a. Unfair Tactics


But since the player that threw the gutter balls was on the other team, not the first place team. They would be the ones to forfeit not the first place, so it might not make any difference .

The first place team would still have won the points do to the forfeiture, unless the first place Team didn't bowl at least the team average less ten (10) pins per player.

[The German Shepherd]

Yes, Bowler1820 you are correct once again. I don't know why I wrote rule 115a...I was actually looking at rule 17...I must be getting old. :/

The team that benefited from the cheating COULD forfeit that game, though, couldn't they?? Personally speaking, I would not want the first place award if I had won it the way these people did...

Jay

[bowl1820]

Yes, Bowler1820 you are correct once again. I don't know why I wrote rule 115a...I was actually looking at rule 17...I must be getting old. :/

The team that benefited from the cheating COULD forfeit that game, though, couldn't they?? Personally speaking, I would not want the first place award if I had won it the way these people did...

Jay

Given if a protest was filed, the board would have three choices.

103b/1 When games bowled are protested, what decisions may the board make?
The board should first determine if the protest was filed within the time limits prescribed in
Rule 119. If the protest is timely, the board can by majority vote declare game(s):
a. Forfeited: If a rule was violated.
b. Null and void and rebowled: If a rule was violated, but was not complied with due to
misinformation or mitigating circumstances. If games are declared null and void, the board
should make another decision as to whether the games should be rebowled.
c. Stand as bowled: If it is found there is no cause for action.

Given these choices

for A: I'd say unless it could be proved the first place team conspired with the other team to have them "Throw the game". I don't think they could be made to forfeit the games.

for B: I think the Null and void option would be the most they could do. Depending on how they felt about it and they went that far.

rebowling would be a waste of time, the other team could easily throw the game again and not be as obvious as 2 gutter balls.

C is the most likely decision that would be made by a board.

[Keithalw]

Well I would love to come back here and say we swept them but it didnt happen. It wasnt for lack of trying though. Theres always summer to take first. What I find funny about all this is the guy who dumped the game last week bowled for posistion this week and shot a 552 and never dropped under 170 and last week he could barely break 145. Roll off happened and he bowled 196 and a 180 something... Weird. Oh well no use in crying over spilled milk i suppose lol