Timing on 5 step

[j1boomer]

Curious if there is anyone else out there that pushes away on the first step of a five step approach. or am I alone in this world. I try to change it, but once I stop thinking about it and just bowl I go right back to pushing off as I start my approach.

[Judy clemons]

I switched over to the 4 step due to that very same problem. I decided it was easier to change my step than it was to
stop the push off and now my timing is working great. (it worked for me) you may or may not even want to try that.

[Tampabaybob]

Curious if there is anyone else out there that pushes away on the first step of a five step approach. or am I alone in this world. I try to change it, but once I stop thinking about it and just bowl I go right back to pushing off as I start my approach.

J..... Remember no two bowlers are exactly alike and if you're changing because you think you should...don't. If you're changing because of timing issues then I would say, go ahead and work on it. I guess my first question is why do you want to change? Is it affecting your finish at the line? Are you off balance ? Do you think you're losing leverage because of it?

Just because you push away on that first step, as long as your timing puts you slide and swing together at the foul line, I don't see anything wrong with it. As with most changes we make in our deliveries, it takes approximately 1200 repetitions for the body's muscle memory to do the change automatically. If you "want" to change, and work hard at it, you can make it happen.

I bowl my best when I have a deep knee bend at the line. It gives me better leverage, more roll, and much better accuracy. BUT, I have to continually remind myself (self talk before I take my first step) to "Bend and reach". Only then does it happen and happen smoothly. Several years ago, I was coaching a learn to bowl class with Palmer Fallgren (9 time PBA title holder). One day after class I mentioned I wanted to stop drifting as much as I do. Here's what he told me; "When your livelihood depends on it, you'll make it happen". I have always remembered his words. To this day, I still drift a lot, my livelihood doesn't depend on my bowling, and I still average close to 220. So unless you want to do this for a living, don't worry about it.

[JPbowl]

Check out the segment in the video below, it talks about the difference between 'pushaway' and 'hinge' technique
You can see the pro's timing.

2:45 - 3:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N5nnDbV0znE

[Greenday]

I used to do the pushaway on my first step. It was because I pushed up instead of just down. I did that until I fixed my pushaway and now I'm back to my second step.

[billf]

I hinge..problem solved.
As Bob said, if your finish timing is accurate, who cares. (nicely summed up, eh)

[j1boomer]

I hinge..problem solved.
As Bob said, if your finish timing is accurate, who cares. (nicely summed up, eh)

don't know if hinge is the solution. have fast feet already, shortening the length of my arm swing would make them have to move faster to catch up. would have to hold the ball like rash to make it work. I just wanted to know if I was the only one that did this. tried 4 step approach today in practice for first time in probably 20 years. ended up taking 8 baby steps. watching video my timing appears ok. but trying to tweak my mechanics. always been stuck in 210-215 range trying to get to 220.

[J Anderson]

Curious if there is anyone else out there that pushes away on the first step of a five step approach. or am I alone in this world. I try to change it, but once I stop thinking about it and just bowl I go right back to pushing off as I start my approach.

I've watched some old PBA telecasts from the 80s, and a Swedish bowler named Matts Karlsson appears to push the ball straight out and then take a five step approach. I'm not sure why it worked for him, but he was the first foreign player to win a PBA tournament.

Like TampabayBob said, if it works for you don't change.

[Tampabaybob]

don't know if hinge is the solution. have fast feet already, shortening the length of my arm swing would make them have to move faster to catch up. would have to hold the ball like rash to make it work. I just wanted to know if I was the only one that did this. tried 4 step approach today in practice for first time in probably 20 years. ended up taking 8 baby steps. watching video my timing appears ok. but trying to tweak my mechanics. always been stuck in 210-215 range trying to get to 220.

Jay.... I hear your problem and as I've talked about this before....you've reached a "plateau". You're doing the correct things by looking at what you can change, because the "only" way to get to that next level (plateau) is to make some type of adjustment, be it big or small. If you remember back when you were a lower average bowler, each time you went up in average it was usually because of some type of small change you made, knowingly or not, and that brought you higher scores and hence a higher average.

I always remind people that the better you get, the harder it is, because now adjustments you make are usually very small. Getting to that next level, say to 220 to 230 is much harder that getting from 160 to 180 or 190. Agree? So my advice, if you're really having trouble getting over the top, seek out a Silver or Gold level coach, or even a touring pro, and take a lesson. You do know that all of the regulars you see on TV still go to coaches. They never say never, just because they have that card in their wallet. It possibly could only take one lesson, and you'd find that one very simple adjustment could get you over the top. Good luck, let me know how you make out.

[GeoLes]

I have experimented with step one push off and found that I was holding the ball in swing. When I push off on step three, I don't have enough time for proper bend and backswing in step 4. when I went back to step 2 pushoff, everything felt in good balance with an effortless swing. For me, its step, push step, step, slide.

[Tampabaybob]

I have experimented with step one push off and found that I was holding the ball in swing. When I push off on step three, I don't have enough time for proper bend and backswing in step 4. when I went back to step 2 pushoff, everything felt in good balance with an effortless swing. For me, its step, push step, step, slide.

George, that's as I said, no two bowlers are alike, and if works for you, stay there, improve on it, and make it work for you. Look at some of the old timers, like Don Carter and Ray Bluth. Can you imagine telling those guys that they should change their approach? Don't think so. You'll make small
adjustments to your game as you improve, whether its your approach, swing plane, or any of the other hundred or so things that you can do. Just be comfortable.

[GeoLes]

Very true. I discoverd that I could use different timing when I was experimenting with various types of foul line drills for pushoff and release. I started in final lunge position focusing on release; then I pushed right into slide position; then step-slide; then step-step slide. All just to see what my body was doing with different timing.

As Michael Jackson sang in "Off The Wall".

"Do what you want to do.
There ain't no rules.
It's up to you."

[DLP]

And then you watch the pros (like during the PBA Bear Open last night) switch from 5-3 and back again because the ball return cover was in the way. Years and years and years of practice to pull that off well, I am sure!

[Tampabaybob]

Donna, I watched that also. That is one heck of an oil pattern ! Beware of the BEAR. I'm sure Chris Barnes won't be too anxious to shoot that pattern anytime soon. And when he does shoot it again, he'll probably practiced 500 games or more on it to figure it out. Belmo's tough though and with the rev's he puts on the ball, when he's on, he's tough to beat on any condition.

[DLP]

I had never seen Belmo bowl before (remember, I'm relatively new at being addicted to the sport) but I was just in sheer awe at the number of revs!!! I've seen a few guys at the alley try and pull off the two handed thing and while they get tons of revs their ball is all over the place. They have absolutely no hope of accuracy and their spare game isn't more than a crap shoot and hope the ball comes close. They try to be all power and really have nothing to show for it other than low scoring games (of the ones I've seen lucky to break 200) and are exhausted.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled 5 step thread - sorry for temporarily hijacking it :)

[Tampabaybob]

I had never seen Belmo bowl before (remember, I'm relatively new at being addicted to the sport) but I was just in sheer awe at the number of revs!!! I've seen a few guys at the alley try and pull off the two handed thing and while they get tons of revs their ball is all over the place. They have absolutely no hope of accuracy and their spare game isn't more than a crap shoot and hope the ball comes close. They try to be all power and really have nothing to show for it other than low scoring games (of the ones I've seen lucky to break 200) and are exhausted.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled 5 step thread - sorry for temporarily hijacking it :)

Yeah, Belmo is one in a million. He's the type of guy I never wanted to run into when I had a PBA card or other tournaments. The guy is a killer with the amount of revs he puts on a ball AND he's accurate as hell. Funny when he was telling how he started two handed.....at 18 months old ???? Wow that's early !!

[Hampe]

Hehe....I can remember the first time I read about a two-handed pro bowler, and the first thing I pictured in my head was someone standing at the line and throwing it granny style between his legs :).

Then I saw the video and was immediately impressed.

[DLP]

Hehe....I can remember the first time I read about a two-handed pro bowler, and the first thing I pictured in my head was someone standing at the line and throwing it granny style between his legs :).

Then I saw the video and was immediately impressed.


A few weeks back there was a group of high schoolers bowling two lanes up from us. The one guy could not under any circumstances bowl anything that did not land in the gutter. He did a "why the heck not", threw the ball granny style between the legs and landed a strike. He was able to repeat it a few frames later. There is nothing like watching a group of young men then play the rest of their game out throwing granny because they want to one up their buddy :)

[JPbowl]

Yeah, Belmo is one in a million. He's the type of guy I never wanted to run into when I had a PBA card or other tournaments. The guy is a killer with the amount of revs he puts on a ball AND he's accurate as hell. Funny when he was telling how he started two handed.....at 18 months old ???? Wow that's early !!

Got a whiff of something when he said that, guess it would depend on ones definition of 'bowling'

[Tampabaybob]

JP..... Nothing meant by that remark, just that many parents choose to start their kids at an early age. My Mom and Dad were bowlers long before I was born and the earliest I can remember having a ball in my hands, I was about 4 years old. Now at that time, the only bowling available in our region was Duckpins and that's what both parents were bowling at the time, so that's where they started with me. It wasn't until 1959, when a ten pin house was built in or area that it started to take off. From that time we switched over to ten pins. I can remember when I was in the Air Force in Japan, taking a picture of my oldest son, standing at a ball rack on the approach getting ready to trow a ball and he was about 1 year old at the time. Come to think about it, that may have been the only time I took a picture of hime bowling. I do remember years later, seeing that photo on the wall of a friends office, a manager of a center in town. She had seen the photo and had a copy made and hung it on the wall of her office.
Anyway, some do start very early !

[dnhoffman]

I push, because it feels more natural to get my arm swing up to the height I like, otherwise I find myself trying to muscle it through on the downswing. When I get that nice stretching backswing I'm able to just let it fall naturally and my release is usually better off for it as well.

Then again, I'm also averaging between 195-200... so take my opinion with a grain of salt I suppose.

[scottymoney]

Bob take a guess what pattern Barnes picked for the Milwaukee Open which airs this Tuesday? He was the top qualifier and got to choose the pattern and yes he chose the Bear. I know the outcome already but he chose the pattern based on it being difficult and he did rather well on it during qualifying. It is also very similar to the US Open pattern which he likes.



I take back my statement. He said he was going to pick Bear but he ended up picking Badger.

[Tampabaybob]

I watched him on the BEAR pattern a week ago, when he bowled Belmo for the title. That would've been the last pattern I thought he would choose. That was a pattern to definitely steer clear of. I'm not sure what the badger patter looks like, so let me google it:


Description:

At 52 feet, the Badger is by far, the longest pattern in the PBA animal pattern library. This pattern’s greatly increased length and higher volume of oil down the lane places a premium on accurately repeating shots. Expect a medium scoring pace.

Recent Tournaments and Champions on this Pattern:

PBA Tour
2013: Lucas Oil PBA Milwaukee Open (winner: Chris Barnes)

Because Chris puts a whole lot of forward roll on the ball, I would say this would be a good choice for him. He stays way behind the ball and it starts rolling real early, so the length of the oil is less of a factor. I would think guy's that swing the ball wouldn't like it. 52 feet....WOW !!