It's about friggin time

[RoccoRock]

After a year, hundreds of games, lots of practice, a bunch of experiments, and many disappointing series, I finally broke through last night. I finally bowled a 600 series one handed, using my thumb. I have a bunch of 600's with thumbless, and two handed styles, but until last night I just couldn't put a full series together one handed, thumb in. I wasn't even planning on bowling one handed, but something clicked in my head yesterday afternoon. I remembered some of my practices, what I did wrong, what I did right, and thought I may be able to put it all together. The plan was to bowl 2 practice games, and if it felt good go with it, if not go to two hands in my league warmup. I went 243 189 in practice. As those games went on, I started to struggle. Thanks to my old friend video, I saw the problem and fixed it. My backswing was getting too high. For mr, if my backswing gets above shoulder height, I get sloppy. Fixed it, finished well.

League warmups went well. I almost blew the first game. First frame was an open, on a makeable spare. 10th frame coming off a spare, I guttered. Made the spare, then struck for a 201. Follwed that with a solid 230. Game 3 was all strikes and 9's, but 2 missed 10 pins cost me a bigger score. 223. So I got my 600 finally, and all 3 games over 200. I'm happy, and I hope I can improve on that next week. The best part is my back feels good, unlike when I bowl two handed.

So I have 600's using 3 different styles, how many people can say that? Next up is trying for a 700 using two styles (I have one using thumbless), and a 300 game with two styles (I have one with two hands).

Oh, and I love my Diva, that ball is sick.

[billf]

Congrats!
I'm sure there aren't many people with a 600 series with three different styles of delivery.

[The German Shepherd]

Well done! Looks like you are progressing very well. You're right about the arm-swing. Keep it controlled, consistent and relaxed and you will have a very solid building block for the rest of your game.

Jay

[RoccoRock]

I'm hesitant to say I think I have things figured out, and I'm comfortable with my "new" delivery. I've thought that before, and then proceeded to bowl like crap the next few weeks. I just hope it wasn't just one good night, and it's a building block. It's the same story over and over, the only difference this time is I actually pulled off the 600 I kept missing out on. I hope to get out and practice tomorrow, and see of I can build on a good night.

I went down and watched my buddy bowl a PBA regional event today and saw just how far away from my goals I really am. Some really good bowlers there, including Ryan Schafer, and Patrick Allen. My buddy wanted me to bowl the regionals too. I wouldn't even qualify with my average, and even if I did I would have finished dead last. I also noticed there were no two handed bowlers there at all. Just an observation, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other what everyone else is doing, or thinks of the way I bowl. All I know is my back feels a whole lot better this week after a week of one handed bowling as opposed to last week when I bowled the whole week two handed.

[vdubtx]

I hope to get out and practice tomorrow, and see of I can build on a good night.


Best way to keep bowling the way you did is to practice, practice, practice. Consistency is key. Repeat shots with minor adjustments on the lanes and you will be shooting another 600 in no time. :)

[RoccoRock]

I've been practicing almost every day for over a year. That's what's so frustrating. I practiced today, no scores just target shooting. I'll practice tomorrow and both practice and league Wednesday. I would love to string 4 or 5 straight 600's the way I did back in February when I was two handing. I think it's very possible.

When I found out that this summer league was just a non sanctioned mixed league, I thought I could use it for one of two things. Either bowl the whole season two handed, and see if I could maintain an average over 200. The other option was bowl one handed, and see if I can progress, and bowl a few 600's finally, and shoot for a 190 average. Looks like I'm headed for option two, and with getting that first 600 out of the way so early, I'm thinking I can shoot for an average over 200 one handed. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself again, but I have a good feeling about my one handed game... ... again.

[aussiedave]

After a year, hundreds of games, lots of practice, a bunch of experiments, and many disappointing series, I finally broke through last night. I finally bowled a 600 series one handed, using my thumb. I have a bunch of 600's with thumbless, and two handed styles, but until last night I just couldn't put a full series together one handed, thumb in. I wasn't even planning on bowling one handed, but something clicked in my head yesterday afternoon. I remembered some of my practices, what I did wrong, what I did right, and thought I may be able to put it all together. The plan was to bowl 2 practice games, and if it felt good go with it, if not go to two hands in my league warmup. I went 243 189 in practice. As those games went on, I started to struggle. Thanks to my old friend video, I saw the problem and fixed it. My backswing was getting too high. For mr, if my backswing gets above shoulder height, I get sloppy. Fixed it, finished well.

League warmups went well. I almost blew the first game. First frame was an open, on a makeable spare. 10th frame coming off a spare, I guttered. Made the spare, then struck for a 201. Follwed that with a solid 230. Game 3 was all strikes and 9's, but 2 missed 10 pins cost me a bigger score. 223. So I got my 600 finally, and all 3 games over 200. I'm happy, and I hope I can improve on that next week. The best part is my back feels good, unlike when I bowl two handed.

So I have 600's using 3 different styles, how many people can say that? Next up is trying for a 700 using two styles (I have one using thumbless), and a 300 game with two styles (I have one with two hands).

Oh, and I love my Diva, that ball is sick.
That is an interesting stat. I reckon I could bowl decent two handed, but thumbless would be difficult for me I think.
I also had a breakthrough last week - 172 - 277 - 246 = 695. First time over 248 in league and demolished my previous league high of 643. My epiphany was to just let the ball swing through nice and easy instead of trying to put revs on it.
Oh, and had 607 the week before with the same method so it wasn't a fluke.
ad.

[billf]

I've been practicing almost every day for over a year. That's what's so frustrating. I practiced today, no scores just target shooting. I'll practice tomorrow and both practice and league Wednesday. I would love to string 4 or 5 straight 600's the way I did back in February when I was two handing. I think it's very possible.

When I found out that this summer league was just a non sanctioned mixed league, I thought I could use it for one of two things. Either bowl the whole season two handed, and see if I could maintain an average over 200. The other option was bowl one handed, and see if I can progress, and bowl a few 600's finally, and shoot for a 190 average. Looks like I'm headed for option two, and with getting that first 600 out of the way so early, I'm thinking I can shoot for an average over 200 one handed. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself again, but I have a good feeling about my one handed game... ... again.

It's been over 5 hours. Still trying one-hand or back to two-hand again? Just kidding.
You've put in the time so hopefully you never go below 600 again.

[RoccoRock]

It's been over 5 hours. Still trying one-hand or back to two-hand again? Just kidding.
You've put in the time so hopefully you never go below 600 again.

Well I have been doing some thinking about two handing... ...just kidding. This is what usually happens. I make plans, then they get ruined when I actually hit the lanes and realize I suck. Last week was the first time in a while I got through an entire night of one handing without shaking my head and thinking what the hell am I doing. I took a while, but I've worked out a lot of the major kinks. I'm not trying to take parts of other peoples game and adopt them to mine. I'm using the techniques I am best at. Keeping my balance arm out, instead of in front of me had helped a lot. It keeps my shoulder from turning too much, and keeps the ball in line with my head. I also went to a push away instead of a hinge, I like the push away better. I fixed my timing on my 5 step approach. I also figured out I have short steps, so I am starting closer to the foul line. I stopped playing with the Sarge Easter grip, and lowered my backswing. The only issue that bothers me a little is I come off the side of the ball. I have a near 90 degree axis. I stay behind the ball until I get it to the bottom of the swing, then I turn my wrist and come up the side. The good thing is I look at Pete Weber's hand on release, and it looks the same as mine. The bad thing is I don't have near Mr. Weber's talent. The other good news is my friend/coach does pretty much the same thing. In fact, without trying, my delivery is close to a mirror image to his delivery, he's a lefty, I'm a righty. I'm waiting until he has some free time to really work with me. He gives me a tip here or there on Facebook, but we haven't had time to get together. He was bowling 3 leagues, and practicing for the regionals. I think his help can really push me over the top, especially with making spares.

[billf]

Good to see you're figuring out what works for you. It is a process and you may even try some of the things that didn't work now, later, and find they work then. The best part of that, you already have experience with them.
As much as I prefer the hinge over pushaway for many reasons, there are bowlers that I have switched from hinge to push away. There isn't anything in this sport that works for 100% of bowlers 100% of the time. Just remember, as good as Weber and WRWJr are, they lose way more games than they win. It's the nature of the sport. So don't let a few bad games or days or even weeks deter you.

[RoccoRock]

Just curious Bill, what do you think of my issue with coming off the side of the ball? I haven't been able to fix it, do you think that is hurting my game? I think that may be the reason I struggle with spares one handed, but I'm good with spares two handed. With two hands I come much more up the back. For a while, I actually thought of shooting strikes one hand, and certain spares two hands. I know that's crazy, but so am I.

[Tampabaybob]

First of , congratulations on your one handed 600. Secondly, if your Buddy wants you to bowl a regional with him, tell him as long as he pays the entry fee you'll do it. Otherwise save your money until you are absolutely confident you can put on a good performance.

Because you're capable of shooting 3 different ways, any combination of the three to shoot your spares is ok. At the level you're at right now, look at it this way, " All's fair in love and war, and bowling is more like war when you're in competition." Good luck.

[TCJ]

So I have 600's using 3 different styles, how many people can say that?

I can't quite say it. I've got 700's with one-handed and two-handed. I'm at around a 590 best series for left-handed. I'll get there within a year, I'm sure.

[billf]

See if your buddy can help you start inside the ball and end up behind it. It still gets axis rotation while generating more power PLUS making it easier for spares.
Other than that, shoot them in whatever manner it takes to convert. If I would be 100% on spare granny bowing them, you better be damn sure that's what I would do!

[RoccoRock]

See if your buddy can help you start inside the ball and end up behind it.

I've been working on that by myself. Not comfortable breaking that out in competition just yet, and the rotation and my aim isn't as consistent. That will have to be a side project for now. I'll give myself a chance to work on my spare game before resorting to a different delivery. It would be interesting to shoot strikes one hand and spares two hands. I would be the polar opposite of Osku Palermaa.

[RoccoRock]

So tonight was league night. Not as good as last week in some ways, but better in one way. My strike ball wasn't as consistent. I couldn't string strikes, best I could do was double 3 times. I even threw a gutterball, for the 3rd straight week, and it broke up a good game again. The good, I made more spares. Last week, if you include 2 fill balls, I missed 5 makeable or easy spares. Tonight I missed 2 makeable/easy sapres. I missed a 10 pin that you could barley fit a credit card between the ball and the pin, and the 3-6-10 which has been killing me lately. I did make the 3-6-10 the next 2 times I left it, so I think I have that figured out now. My other 3 opens were splits. I felt like I had 2 terrible games, and one ok game. In the past, those would have been scores in the 150's for the bad games, and 180's for the ok game. Tonight the terrible games were 180, 182, and the ok game was 193. So that's an improvement, even when I suck now I don't suck as bad.

[billf]

Time to change your signature again: sucking a little less one day at a time

[JDHamm85]

I've chopped so many 6s off the 6-10, 3s off the 3 6 10, heck even the 6 in the 3 6 10, that I pretty much know when it is going to happen as soon as it hits the lane.

And I like Bill's new sig for you, haha.

[Tampabaybob]

So tonight was league night. Not as good as last week in some ways, but better in one way. My strike ball wasn't as consistent. I couldn't string strikes, best I could do was double 3 times. I even threw a gutterball, for the 3rd straight week, and it broke up a good game again. The good, I made more spares. Last week, if you include 2 fill balls, I missed 5 makeable or easy spares. Tonight I missed 2 makeable/easy sapres. I missed a 10 pin that you could barley fit a credit card between the ball and the pin, and the 3-6-10 which has been killing me lately. I did make the 3-6-10 the next 2 times I left it, so I think I have that figured out now. My other 3 opens were splits. I felt like I had 2 terrible games, and one ok game. In the past, those would have been scores in the 150's for the bad games, and 180's for the ok game. Tonight the terrible games were 180, 182, and the ok game was 193. So that's an improvement, even when I suck now I don't suck as bad.

Well, interesting post. I'm really glad to see that you've UPPED your percentage on your spares. That's a milestone to be proud of and to try to maintain. But......I detected something else that you said. Re-read your post and see if it jumps out at you.

You stated "missed (a 10 pin that you could barley fit a credit card between the ball and the pin, and) the 3-6-10 which has been killing me lately. I did make the 3-6-10 the next 2 times I left it and "My other 3 opens were splits."

That's 6 frames that you "missed the pocket" out of 30 frames. What happened, or why, would you say, that you missed the pocket "that many times"?
When someone asks me about improving I always will tell them to go back and analyze their series, it can tell you a lot. For instance, my first question would be, "did you pull your ball and miss your spot'? or did the lanes start to transition and you got left behind in the dust and left a split or came in on the nose and ended up with your "dreaded" 3-6-10 leave? See, where I'm going with this? Looking at you evening, even though you bowled well, can help you pick out problems "that may have occurred" and can help you to get past those errors next time out. Most of us remember our scores and in particular our bad shots at least for a few days afterwards. That's when my head stops hurting...LOL Anyway, think about what happened. Did you lift your eyes up off of the target and pull the ball leaving that shot or the splits, or did you not watch the people you bowl with carefully enough to see the lanes starting to transition so you could anticipate the move next time you got up. These are the types of things that happen to all of us, no matter how long you've been a bowler or how good you are. It's just human nature. But you can thwart some of it by spending a few minutes and looking at what happened "after the fact". You take a look at it, see if you can remember those 6 shots, and you tell me what you think was happening. That's the beginning of "learning" how to analyze your game and THAT is what will get YOU to the next level in average. Let me know what you think.

[RoccoRock]

Well, interesting post. I'm really glad to see that you've UPPED your percentage on your spares. That's a milestone to be proud of and to try to maintain. But......I detected something else that you said. Re-read your post and see if it jumps out at you.

You stated "missed (a 10 pin that you could barley fit a credit card between the ball and the pin, and) the 3-6-10 which has been killing me lately. I did make the 3-6-10 the next 2 times I left it and "My other 3 opens were splits."

That's 6 frames that you "missed the pocket" out of 30 frames. What happened, or why, would you say, that you missed the pocket "that many times"?
When someone asks me about improving I always will tell them to go back and analyze their series, it can tell you a lot. For instance, my first question would be, "did you pull your ball and miss your spot'? or did the lanes start to transition and you got left behind in the dust and left a split or came in on the nose and ended up with your "dreaded" 3-6-10 leave? See, where I'm going with this? Looking at you evening, even though you bowled well, can help you pick out problems "that may have occurred" and can help you to get past those errors next time out. Most of us remember our scores and in particular our bad shots at least for a few days afterwards. That's when my head stops hurting...LOL Anyway, think about what happened. Did you lift your eyes up off of the target and pull the ball leaving that shot or the splits, or did you not watch the people you bowl with carefully enough to see the lanes starting to transition so you could anticipate the move next time you got up. These are the types of things that happen to all of us, no matter how long you've been a bowler or how good you are. It's just human nature. But you can thwart some of it by spending a few minutes and looking at what happened "after the fact". You take a look at it, see if you can remember those 6 shots, and you tell me what you think was happening. That's the beginning of "learning" how to analyze your game and THAT is what will get YOU to the next level in average. Let me know what you think.

Yeah, my spare ball was better, but I struggled with strikes, no doubt there. The two splits were game one, frames 2 and 3 before I figured out were I needed to play. I struggled with my backswing height, again, so that gave a few frames away. I also had an issue when I tightened up my thumb hole. While I liked the feel, I needed to find a new spot to play cause my rotation and axis degree changed, so that was a few frames of bad shots. It's all a learning process, these are adjustments I never had to worry about with two hands. Usually with two hands it was just keep moving left until it works, then keep throwing that ball in that spot and make spares. The bad news, I haven't bowled two handed in a while, and my back still hurts.

[Castiel]

Been bowling for 4 1/2 months and bowled a 704 in league last Wednesday.... Blah..

[RoccoRock]

Been bowling for 4 1/2 months and bowled a 704 in league last Wednesday.... Blah..

Good for you, now can you do it again? That's the key, repeatably. I bowled a 730 series two years ago, I bowled a 300 game a year and a half ago. What does that mean? Nothing, not without being able to do it again, and doing it top leagues, and tourneys. Anyone can get lucky and bowl a great game or series on a house shot in a recreational league. Doing it over and over in a competitive league, and on sport patterns, then in it means something. It doesn't matter how long you've been bowling, or how many practice games you have under your belt when it all counts. If you enter a tourney, they don't ask you how long you've been bowling. It's real easy to come on a thread, brag about your one good series with absolutely no proof. Go out tonight in your league and back up that 700 with another one this week, or even a nice 600, then maybe you have something. If you are that good this soon then you are very talented, and good luck to you. It's very very rare to have someone pick up a ball and in less than 6 months bowl 600's and 700's. I've never seen anyone with little experience have good form. They are usually all over the place, going dead straight, or hooking it a ton cause they don't use the thumb. What did you bowl the week before the 700, and the week before that? That tells a whole lot more than the one big week.

[RoccoRock]

620 tonight, admits some major potential distractions. There was a fist fight in the lane next to me. The beef started in warmups, and culminated after game 2. Anyway, I bowled well first game, converted the 3-4-6-7 in the first frame. Only miss was a 4-10 split. Second game was not goo. I didn't throw a strike until the 7th frame, and missed 3 spares I should have made including the problematic 3-6-10. It was my fault, I lost focus and feel. I got it back at the end of the game, finished well, and won the game for my team with a strong 10th. Third game was good, except missing another stupid 3-6-10. Go figure, I make th 3-4-6-7 in the first frame, and even made a pair of 3-4-6-7-10's in practice, but I keep missing the 3-6-10. Maybe I should pretend that the 4-7 is standing on the other side when I shoot it next time. So that's 2 600's in 3 weeks, and my average in this league is 199.9. Finally, some progress. I know I'm no superstar like Castiel, but making some strides after a year feels good. I worked this week on coming much straighter up the back of the ball. I still come off the side, but no where near as much as I had been. Looks like it's time to officially retire the two handed game. I'll still break it out for fun from time to time, but as far as competition, it's all one hand from here on out. At least, that's the plan, lets see how long that lasts. I actually gave some thought to two handing tonight, my thumb was bothering me. I went to throw a ball in practice this week, and it never cleared the thumb. I'm lucky I didn't fall down like Josh Blanchard. Glad I stuck with one hand tonight. Let's see where it goes from here.

[Tampabaybob]

Rocco...... Tough to concentrate when there's a fist fight going on next to you ! Concerning the 3-6-10, I know what you're talking about. One of the guys on my team has exactly the same problem and freezes up every time he leaves one. Ive never really had that much of a problem with it, but, during our rolloff this season, I left the 3 -10 on my last ball on a strike in the 10th. Shot it the way I normally would, and left the 3 pin standing.......lost the game....AND got knocked out of the rolloff brackets...BY ONE PIN !!!! Yeah, I'm the anchor and NEVER should have missed it. So anytime I've left it during practice, since then, I have found MY spot to shoot that sucker. Stand on the same board every time...shoot the same spot/arrow every time...haven't missed it since !!! So, find YOUR spot, practice it, and boil it down to the KISS theory. ( KISS theory.....keep it simple stupid ! )

[RoccoRock]

When I was two handing, I used to shoot the 3-6-10 by throwing my plastic ball dead straight, right up the 5. I don't remember the last time I missed that spare that way. Now with one hand I listened to my friend who told me to to use more angle, start left and throw it out to the right. I might try my old method with one hand. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll shoot just that spare with two hands.

[Jaescrub]

Am I mistaken or do you have to have Right/left and or Both sanctioned to be able to change up your Style from right to left or two handed in League play?

[classygranny]

When I was two handing, I used to shoot the 3-6-10 by throwing my plastic ball dead straight, right up the 5. I don't remember the last time I missed that spare that way. Now with one hand I listened to my friend who told me to to use more angle, start left and throw it out to the right. I might try my old method with one hand. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll shoot just that spare with two hands.

I vote for this, or less angle. But if you insist on using an angle to the pocket that's going to leave alot of them (or miss your mark-my own issue), then use the spare ball. My coach wants me to eventually use the spare ball for every spare. Not there yet, but getting more and more use to the idea.

[RoccoRock]

Am I mistaken or do you have to have Right/left and or Both sanctioned to be able to change up your Style from right to left or two handed in League play?

USBC rules are for right and left handed averages. If you change hands, you must re establish your average, or use an established average for that specific hand. You can not go from one hand to the other in the same game, you must finish the game using the hand you started with. With two hands, junior bowlers must have a separate average from one handed. Adults there is no such rule. You can go back and forth if you like, shoot strikes two hand and spares one if you like, the way Osku Palremaa does. I bowled a USBC league last season, so when I wanted to go back and forth I read all the rules to make sure I was doing it right.

[Tampabaybob]

USBC rules are for right and left handed averages. If you change hands, you must re establish your average, or use an established average for that specific hand. You can not go from one hand to the other in the same game, you must finish the game using the hand you started with. With two hands, junior bowlers must have a separate average from one handed. Adults there is no such rule. You can go back and forth if you like, shoot strikes two hand and spares one if you like, the way Osku Palremaa does. I bowled a USBC league last season, so when I wanted to go back and forth I read all the rules to make sure I was doing it right.

Rocco, you're correct, but in looking at the rule book on line, it is somewhat confusing. Here's part of it:

118b. How Established
Each league shall adopt a rule to determine the number of games required to establish an average in that league. The following applies when establishing an average:
1. A right-handed bowler must always bowl right-handed. Similarly, a left-handed bowler must
always bowl left-handed. Penalty: Forfeiture of game.
2. No combination of scores bowled both right- and left-handed can be used to compute an
average, except as stipulated in Rule 4c.

Then, on frequently asked questions, here's a reply:

118b/3
A bowler is using the two-handed approach. The bowler's dominate hand is the right hand. Can the bowler use the right hand for spares?
Answer:
Yes, since both deliveries are with the same dominate hand, the bowler did not change his delivery and therefore, is not in violation of any USBC rules.

My question is this (and this written explanation doesn't answer it), If a bowler is shooting two handed and is allowed to shoot spares with his dominate hand, then why couldn't a right handed (one handed) bowler shoot his spares two handed when his dominate hand is still his right hand?
Somewhere, I'm missing the connection between the two, and I'd say if you can do it one way, the opposite should also be ok. Thoughts?

[billf]

Bob, a one-handed bowler can shoot spares two-handed so long as his right hand is the dominant hand.
I had to e-mail USBC last season and check when a dispute was made.

[classygranny]

Bob, a one-handed bowler can shoot spares two-handed so long as his right hand is the dominant hand.
I had to e-mail USBC last season and check when a dispute was made.

Just to clarify a bit more - that is providing he is bowling one-handed with the right hand. If he is bowling left handed with one hand, then the two-handed must have the left hand dominant in order to be considered to "finish the game using the hand you started with."

[billf]

Just to clarify a bit more - that is providing he is bowling one-handed with the right hand. If he is bowling left handed with one hand, then the two-handed must have the left hand dominant in order to be considered to "finish the game using the hand you started with."

Correct. Whichever hand the average was established with is considered the dominant hand and must be so for both deliveries. How it's delivered they don't care as long as the dominant hand is the same.