Ball to heavy?

[DLP]

I"ve read quite a few "Is my ball to heavy" threads and columns, and yes all of them make sense. I currently use a 14 lb Cyclone. I have two other balls that I don't throw, as my TZone needs the thumb hole adjusted, and the Path just sits pretty in the ball return.

I'm trying to figure out whats changed, as I've been throwing the Cyclone now for three weeks, 6-9 games a week easy. Up until last night, I was OK (or at least thought I was) with the weight and how it felt.

Today, I feel like I've been run over by a bus. My legs and right arm are screaming.

Anyone have this happen that just one day, all of a sudden the ball feels to heavy?

[classygranny]

When this happens to me, I can almost contribute it to my form. I'm usually leaning over at the waist too much, leaning to the side, not bending my knee.

Sometimes I think we are just more tired than we think and then we expend all the energy to bowl and it is like overworking in the yard or at the gym, your muscles are fatigued.

You should be able to tell if you really feel your form is suffering from the weight - I wouldn't change it just yet if I were you. If you start to drop the ball, or drop the shoulder really bad consistently, then have someone work with you to determine if they feel the ball is too heavy. My sister, who doesn't bowl herself, but goes to one of my leagues with me every week, can tell who is throwing a ball that is too light and too heavy - just from listening to a few of my coaching sessions and observing.

Try a video of yourself and make your own assessment.

[Gunz1911]

I have been wondering this for myself too. I currently use a 15 pounder with a wrist brace (Brunswick Powerkoil). Normally I get no or very mild pain in my hand while using the brace. If I try to take the brace off however my hand feels so out of place on the ball. It also hurts to throw after 1-2 balls. Normally right on the back of the hand where your index, middle and pointer finger's tendons meet up. I would really like to be able to throw with a brace but not sure if i just need to build up my hand muscles first or suck it up and go to 14 pounds. Besides the powerkoil, does anyone else have a good brace they would recommend that isnt too bulky?

[JDHamm85]

I agree with classygranny. It is probably a form issue. I was bending over too much a couple weeks ago, and hurt the top of my back pretty bad (to where I couldn't lift anything over my head). Had to use a heating pads for a week, along with pain medicine. It still hurts when I twerk it from time to time, but I straightened up and bent my knees more to fix it. Now it feels somewhat normal most of the time.

[billf]

I have been wondering this for myself too. I currently use a 15 pounder with a wrist brace (Brunswick Powerkoil). Normally I get no or very mild pain in my hand while using the brace. If I try to take the brace off however my hand feels so out of place on the ball. It also hurts to throw after 1-2 balls. Normally right on the back of the hand where your index, middle and pointer finger's tendons meet up. I would really like to be able to throw with a brace but not sure if i just need to build up my hand muscles first or suck it up and go to 14 pounds. Besides the powerkoil, does anyone else have a good brace they would recommend that isnt too bulky?

A brace can and usually does, change the actual span of your hand. As little as 1/16" in span can lead to pain. Do to me bowling through wrist injuries I have balls drilled with different spans to accomodate this.

[Tampabaybob]

GUNZ.....Several years ago, on the advice of a pro shop friend, I also shortened my span. Have your pro shop guy look at it for his opinion.

DLP...... I'm in agreement with Granny. You were probably doing "something" a bit different the other night and that's what caused the pains. I have had nights during the past season, where I'd comp home from bowling, and about an hour later, felt like I got hit by a truck. Some of the nights, were decent scoring nights and some, I'd rather forget. Started really thinking about it and changed a couple of things midway though the season. What was it? Being more relaxed on the approach and stopping myself from any exertion at all. Had to work on it for a few weeks but once I figured out how to do it relaxed, no more pain. Just this past week, I shot 3 games twice, once with my wife and once by myself and shot very well. Totally relaxed, totally comfortable on the approach and at the line, not trying to force the swing or the ball, and it all comes together. ( by the way shot 759 and 717 for those 6 games) So my advice, go throw a few games, try to totally relax everything. Even if you end up throwing the ball a little slower than normal, that's ok, because you can adjust to that. Try taking a breath and holding it for a couple of second, 'before' taking that first step on the approach. Hope this will help, let me know. Good Luck.

[DLP]

Thank you, Bob!!! That is exactly what I found myself doing tonight. Got around to the third game and started that "dang is my ball to heavy" dialogue in my head. Instead of trying to figure out if its my release, my approach, the wrong socks, did I tie my shoes to tight, etc... I just took a deep breath and become very deliberate, slower, and more relaxed with my bowling.... instantly ended up with two strikes and a spare back to back in a game where until that point I was lucky to drop 7 pins in a frame and threw back to back gutters in the frame prior to the my strikes.

Now if I can just maintain that attention to the detail of being relaxed through out a 3 game series, I'd love to see what I'm capable of doing!

[Tampabaybob]

DLP.... I'm glad to see that you did that. Unfortunately human nature takes over sometimes and we start to beat ourselves up, instead of saying, "OK stupid, let's think about this and go back to basics." Relaxing, and just stopping the thinking process when your up on the approach "usually" will help most people. The time to think, and pull out the bag of tricks to try something different is NOT when your on the approach. Once you get up there you should already have told your self to relax and do this that or something else. Then just too it. To many voices in the head makes for a miserable day at the lanes. Glad you worked it out !

[DLP]

Changed my approach today after working on the 5-step drill on the recommendations of Joe Slowinski over at http://bowlingknowledge.info
Since I'm new at this whole bowling thing, it couldn't hurt :)

After feeling it out the first game, and starting off really well in the 2nd, I can tell I was suffering from wrist fatigue as I found it very difficult to get behind the ball and was instead releasing from the top of the ball.

New brace comes in tomorrow, working with coach on Wed...

Maybe I need to put my crochet hooks down for awhile and work on wrist strengthening while I'm on the phone at work :P

[Tampabaybob]

Changed my approach today after working on the 5-step drill on the recommendations of Joe Slowinski over at http://bowlingknowledge.info
Since I'm new at this whole bowling thing, it couldn't hurt :)

After feeling it out the first game, and starting off really well in the 2nd, I can tell I was suffering from wrist fatigue as I found it very difficult to get behind the ball and was instead releasing from the top of the ball.

New brace comes in tomorrow, working with coach on Wed...

Maybe I need to put my crochet hooks down for awhile and work on wrist strengthening while I'm on the phone at work :P

personally I think a five step is easier once you get the feel of it. I changed years ago, and now when I'm showing the kids (brand new bowlers) I almost trip over my feet trying to demonstrate the 4 step approach. I think you'll get it fairly quickly though, just take your time and have patience. Have your coach take a look and make sure you're doing it correctly also. Good luck...stay in touch.

[billf]

I love a 5 step approach BUT went back to 4 after teaching new bowlers. Why? I would spend all day Saturday teaching a 4 then come league that night my footwork would be all messed up.

[DLP]

Well... I didn't wait till Wed. When an opportunity to adopt is presented and the orphan is such a perfect fit, one cannot turn ones back on a homeless bowling ball.

I am doing a 5 step approach. It feels so fluid and so wonderful to me now, I don't know why I wanted this long to try it.
I also got the chance to bowl with a new brace. My mongoose lifter came in. Talk about a major change in how the ball feels.

Then there is "Dippy" (see the pina colada thread).

I feel like crying in joy. The game has not felt THIS good to me since I started. Everything just clicked!

[josheaton16]

I agree a 5 step approach feels more fluid to me as well. I've always used five steps for as long as i can remember but have tried a 4 step and it did not go well!!

[Tampabaybob]

Well... I didn't wait till Wed. When an opportunity to adopt is presented and the orphan is such a perfect fit, one cannot turn ones back on a homeless bowling ball.

I am doing a 5 step approach. It feels so fluid and so wonderful to me now, I don't know why I wanted this long to try it.
I also got the chance to bowl with a new brace. My mongoose lifter came in. Talk about a major change in how the ball feels.

Then there is "Dippy" (see the pina colada thread).

I feel like crying in joy. The game has not felt THIS good to me since I started. Everything just clicked!

Those are the words coaches love to hear. Now you have the equipment, the right mindset, just get out there and put it all together. My crystal ball tells me you'll be breaking your personal best many times this coming year. Good luck, and if you have any questions....fire away !!

[the_halfie]

I've been tossing around the idea of dropping to a lighter ball weight recently from #15 down to #14 and possibly #13.
My reasons are because I am throwing the ball SUPER slow, not that I can help it really as I have ZERO approach (as in I literally get in position, and launch the ball)
and because of that my ball is hooking A LOT! Any opinions, or advice?

[DLP]

AS recommended earlier in one of the threads I started I headed here: http://bowlingknowledge.info/

I used to use a 4 step approach because when I got on the lanes it was what I was most comfortable doing. I started doing the 5 step drill and the Push Away drill from the "Physical Game Drills" on that site. I started working on it for three or four days before heading the lanes. Yes, my first game felt really really weird, but unlike the four step approach I was using, the rhythm and cadence of the 5 step explained in the drills became second nature to me really quick. By my second game it was second nature.

My ball speed increased significantly. The extra step of momentum probably had something to do this as I was advancing forward prior to even letting the ball start to move.

I had been bowling with a 14 and then dropped to a 12 (different grip than the 14), went back up to 14 (an Ebonite Cyclone - a hand me down from my hubby) that I was going to stick with, then had a 12 lb Fridge land in my lap. Well, not in my lap per-se but close enough. Can we say indecisive anyone?

I've put the Cyclone and my original 14 lb TZone aside and am going to stick with the Fringe and a 12 lb Pyramid Path for now.

Good luck halfie!! =)

[the_halfie]

Good stuff DLP, and thank you! I would look into different approaches if I had that option lol. I should've specified earlier as to "why" I don't have an approach lol. I was born without legs, so I plant with my left hand at the line, get my hips situated, grab my ball and swing as much as I can (which isn't much due to clearance issues between me and the ground) with a cupped hand and hope that I hit my intended target. My ball speed is roughly between 8-9 MPH with a 15 lbs ball. At least I don't have to worry about shoes, not sliding, and going over the foul line! =P

[billf]

Use what you have to your advantage. The slower ball speed will let you save money on balls as you won't need to big, expensive hook monster balls.
Motive uses the same core in all their weight of balls so you can go as light as you want and keep the same reaction. Some companies change cores below 14 lbs while others below 12 lbs. Not sure if you have a manufacturer preference.
And for the record, if you're not paying attention, you can still go over the foul line! lol
I would suggest Storm's Super Natural, Natural Pearl or Motiv's Tank. They are allo real good urethane balls which hook somewhat less but also consistently handle over/under, wet/dry conditions well.

[DLP]

On that note ..... I see a guy at the lanes occasionally who is in a wheelchair. If he throws anything over a 12lb bowl his chair moves and changes his release massively. He explained that he couldn't handle anything heavier because of this. He bowls both the para-lympics and the Disabled Vet's games. He modified his chair to have additional grip on the wheels with the brakes, but the sheer momentum of his throw forces movement. There are plenty of ways the game can be adjusted :)

You need to find what is comfortable for you and once you do, the sky is the limit and you'll become unstoppable!

Do you work with a pro at all? Don't be afraid to ask questions! There are also some pretty inspirational videos on youtube of bowlers with degrees of challenges that they have overcome to go on to become amazing bowlers. My step brother introduced me to a few of the videos because he bowls with the complete use of his right arm due to being born with a deformed right arm.

[the_halfie]

Bill you speak the truth! I actually HAVE tripped the foul line with my short's leggings before when getting setup lol! I do NOT have a manufacture preference as of yet, but I HAVE been looking very strongly towards the Brunswick Slingshot, DV8 Misfit/ Misfit Pearl, and the new DV8 Marauder Mutiny has caught my eye and I will continue keeping a close eye on it. I must admit I haven't even glanced at any of the Motive line, but the Storm line I've seen quite often and theres at least ONE bowler that uses the Storm Natural (I THINK its the Pearl, not 100%).

DLP that's awesome about the bowler in the wheelchair, and about your step brother! I have seen quite a few videos since I started bowling of others doing quite well for themselves despite their "disabilities". If I remember correctly there was a guy in a wheelchair last year who bowled his first 300 game in league play (saw it on the USBC website I believe). I personally don't work with a pro, but I get quite a bit of advice from the bowlers on my league and a lot of the advice is solid I just have to learn to adapt it to MY way of bowling, and other times I just simply haven't found a way (yet).

I bowl sunday mornings in a doubles league, so this weekend I'm going to get a lane before league starts up, and throw a couple of 13 and 14 lbs house balls to get a feel for how I like it. If it feels BETTER and I can keep control, then I'll go ahead and get my next ball in one of those weights. Can't hurt to try right?

[billf]

Do you use a fingertip grip of a conventional grip? House balls are usually all conventional grip and being no size fits any, the weights feel a little heavier than they really are compared to fingertip grips.
The Slingshot is a good ball. I love my Misfit. The Mutiny is suppose to fit between the Misfit and the original Marauder. Let you know when I get to test one out.

[the_halfie]

I have a semi-finger tip grip, and am going to swap over to fingertip as I am finding myself able to get a more consistent release that way. I never really thought about the difference in the way the ball feels conventional vs fingertip. Right now my "arsenal" consists of a Brunswick Inferno, Brunswick Battlezone Missile, and a Columbia white dot plastic ball. The Inferno has the most hook and I usually only use it if there's plenty of oil down and/ or I'm sitting right at the left gutter. The Missile gets the most use, but the way it was drilled before passed onto me, it's drilled to have even more hook. I would feel comfortable with a ball that has SOME hook incase I throw it too far to the right, but I want it to have enough carry and roll to drive through the pins, even with my slow ballspeed. Maybe that's too much to ask for? (sincere question)

[Tampabaybob]

Robbie....... I'd go along with Bill's suggestion on trying a urethane ball. Because of it's consistency, you'd get less over or under reaction. As far as dropping weight, I'd say once you try the 13 or 14 #er's you'll find that answer yourself. A 13# will give you the speed you're looking for and with the urethane ball you wouldn't be giving up much hitting power. Once you get used to the lower weight then you can experiment with the higher RG balls that will give you more hook. I also coach a few kids that have different challenges and I'm always pleased to see them break their highest score and do well. One young man started bowling just last summer, was in an tav accident and it left his entire right side paralyzed and of course he was right handed. So he's bowling left handed and this season did astonishingly well. Very proud of him, and love to see him show up every week. Good luck with the ball decision (and by the way...definitely go with a fingertip) let us know how you make out.

[the_halfie]

Urethane balls eh? For some reason I thought that urethane would hook like crazy with my lower ball speed (but then again, if I'm dropping down in ball weight it's going to increase at least a little bit). Any ball in particular you guys would recommend that I'd try out? It'll be a little while before I get a chance to get a new ball, but once I do I'll let you guys know what I went with, and I'll ask the shop to give me a description of the layout they chose for me.

Another quick question as Bill mentioned that some companies use a different core in lower weight balls and some use the same core period. My question is, does anybody have a list of who does use a different core and who doesn't?

I still don't know a whole lot about RG and Differential, but that's why I joined up to learn as much as I can! Thanks guys for the responses and advice, and Bob to me I love it when I see others come over their own challenges and realize "whoa, I CAN do this!" No feeling beats that to me!

[DLP]

Some of the manufacturer websites indicate the difference if you look up the specs of the ball specifically.
If not, a little bit of research online using the magic of google usually warrants your answer.

If you check out http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/ there is a huge list of articles there for pretty much a little bit of everything about the game. I think there are a few regarding equipment as well... so you get some discussion regarding RG, and PAP, and differential, and... the list goes on and on

One article I found decent was this one: http://www.buddiesproshop.com/t-marketing_vs_physics.aspx - which looks at if the marketing is all hype or if there is some scientific proof to back it up :)

[the_halfie]

Thanks DLP, lots of reading to catch up on lol!

[DLP]

I didn't take my Cyclone along with me to coaching but I did ask. He watched me throw the 12 and said that it is an excellent weight for me to be working with right now. He said anything heavier and I would most likely be forcing myself through my approach and release which is probably why I was running into fatigue.

Now that THATS settled... 12 lbs it is :)

[Tampabaybob]

I didn't take my Cyclone along with me to coaching but I did ask. He watched me throw the 12 and said that it is an excellent weight for me to be working with right now. He said anything heavier and I would most likely be forcing myself through my approach and release which is probably why I was running into fatigue.

Now that THATS settled... 12 lbs it is :)


Most important thing is this game is your comfort level with that ball. If you were to use a ball "too heavy" that loss of comfort would detract you from getting other aspects of your game in line. Go for the 12 #er. A year or so down the road, if you think you can handle a bit heavier ball then do it at that time, but for now stay in "your" comfort zone and don't listen to the "naysayers" about ball weights. Good luck.