And she throws a hook!

[DLP]

Really boys and girls! The backup ball queen started throwing hooks tonight. They were slight but dangit there was hook! My epiphany happened when I realized my hand wasn't flat, as in the ball was not resting on my hand parallel to the ground and I was actually turning my wrist so that my hand was not exactly under the ball. When I made this tiny adjustment not only did my backup ball fade (pardon the pun) into oblivion, the little Fringe actually developed a mild hook. This happened at the start of our third game tonight. We went for four lines each so I still had a 2nd game to bowl with my newfangled way of rolling the ball.

First two games : 105/134
Second two games : 109/145

I'm high as a kite right now because that 145 was 3 pins OVER my hubby who wasn't experimenting (it's the only time I've ever beaten him before). It came down to the final frame. I threw the ONLY strike of that game and followed up with a spare. He led off with a strike, followed by 9 pins and open.

I told him I'm framing the print outs of our games.

Average ended up being a 123 for the series :D

p.s. At the rate I was bowling tonight - my spare game is gonna ROCK in leagues! 4 strikes over 4 games... 4 X the spares!

[billf]

Congratulations! It's always a great feeling when something starts to click.

[classygranny]

Whoo HOO! Congrats, I always feel good when something finally clicks. And I see you scores are steadily going upwards. Keep up the good work!

I know you worked with a coach and I am only going to suggest this as something for you to think about or ask your coach about...

The one thing I wished I had learned as a beginner bowler, and actually never was told until awhile ago, and has caused me much difficulty in changing due to my old habits...

Use a two or three-point grip. A two point is where you apply pressure with the base of your thumb (push your nail towards the ball) and your index finger. This allows the thumb to relax and stay straight, allowing a good, clean, quick release. We all seem to have a tendency to squeeze the ball or bend our thumb (a really hard habit to break-at least for me). By holding your ball with these pressure points your thumb, hand, and arm stay more relaxed. If you want to add the third point pressure, it would be with the ring finger. It helps to get more turn on the ball, without even thinking about turning the ball.

I can't tell you how much I wish I had learned this 25 yrs ago!

DON'T try this in league for the first time....you may, and probably will, drop a few balls. Just keep practicing but don't start to squeeze with the thumb, they tell me it will come to be more natural the more you practice. And, by all means check with your coach!

[The German Shepherd]

That is the epitome of coolness! Keep up the good work!

J

[Tampabaybob]

Donna....way to go ! I'm telling you, my crystal ball says you'll be averaging in the 120's of higher by this fall !! We can all see that you're working del hard at your game, and the progress is really starting to show. Great job.

One of the things Gayla just mentioned also, is about keeping a little pressure on your ring finger. Basically, you'll be pointing your ring finger toward your target.

Another thing I teach, and in fact did this yesterday to one of my Junior bowlers Dad's that I was practicing with, is to put just a little squeeze on both of your fingers and point your INDEX FINGER towards the target. What that will do is "slightly change the axis roll of your ball, help you stay under the ball with your hand, and give you a bit more of an end over end roll for stronger hits. He's a 170 average shooter and in three games didn't shoot under 200. i noticed he had left a couple of 5 pins and one 5-7 split when I suggested this. All of a sudden he started striking and every thing fell into place. It's an easy technique and all you want to do also is put a very little pressure with your index finger on the ball....just press lightly all the way through to your release. When you release the ball have your index finger pointing towards your target. Try it and see what kind of reaction you get. You may have to move a few boards left if the ball starts hooking more. Good luck, keep up the good bowling and let us know how you're doing !

[DLP]

Thanks for the advice!!! I changed my grip to feel it more in the pad of my thumb instead of bending my thumb. I fixed my "swelly thumb/floppy thumb" by slapping a 1/8" foam shur cushion up the back of the thumb and a single piece of white tape in the front. Felt weird for a little while and I think that's what triggered my "inserts" thread. Eventually I'll get this ironed out.

[billf]

If you can fit a shur-cushion in with your thumb, then your hole is too big! It's a great product though as it helps give you confidence on how tight the hole can be and the thumb STILL get out in time.

[DLP]

Is throwing a backup ball necessarily a bad thing? I'm back to "instinct" again, and while my first game tonight only clocked in at 97 (was trying to repeat what I did with throwing a hook, not matter how small), my second game (when I didnt give to hoots), was a backup ball beauty up into the 120s.

I have one of two choices: Keep trying/practicing/etc. at trying to throw a hook or try a different drill pattern on the Fringe to work with what I am doing already.

I know - two different schools of thought. One is "hook! hook! hook!" and the other is "stack the cards in your favor and go with the flow".

After getting advice from the Pro I work with, I'm leaning more towards the second. Maybe using what some people consider a weakness to my advantage, I'd be better off in the long run. I mean, other than lefties, who plays the left side of the lane anyway, right?!?!??!

[billf]

That's your choice. Females seem to have more flexibility in their elbows allowing for a natural back up delivery. The down side is the possibility of injury due to putting stress on a joint in such a manner. I'm no doc so there may not be a difference.

[classygranny]

A lady in my Friday morning league throws a beautiful backup ball....just don't call it that to her face as SHE throw a "reverse hook". She has averaged close to 160 I think for the last 6 or more years. Just bowls that one time a week, has one ball, and never picks it up in between league days, and doesn't always bowl in the summer.

Bill is right, women's arm bones are a bit different and it is easier for us to throw that way. I would just be careful in that you are sure your arm swing is the cause of the backup and not your wrist. If it is the wrist, then I (personally) would advise against it in the long run, I would see injuries and pains in your future.

Also, is the ball you throw the backup with drilled to move that way? If not, and you choose to go that direction, a ball that is drilled for a reverse hook could/would help your scoring and accuracy.

How about a video of both styles? Then we can really give a "what-for"...just kidding. Bowling is more about fun, than skill...right? NOT! At least for me...

[josheaton16]

I agree, just do what works best. I know about 5-6 women in a mixed league i bowl in that throw backup balls. Most carry avgs around 160 or so with one around 180. So it can be done, and very well at that.

[DLP]

Highly frustrated and confused. Went back to the alley tonight with my Fringe and my Path.
What I DO know:
1) The thumb on the Fringe needs to be fixed.
2) The span probably could use some love as well
3) I CAN throw it, completely relaxed, and get an ok backup ball (see notes above).
4) I CAN throw my Path with better accuracy right now, probably because of the proper drilling on it, and... wait for it .... it has the proper rotation leading to a hook
5) Previously I couldn't throw the Path with any consistency so I had no real visible oil tracks. I am now down to two... one that is perfectly symmetrical, cutting the radius of the ball in half over the thumb hole and going right between the finger holes and another that is at an angle off to the left of the finger holes angled back towards the thumb hole and going beneath it. Very low flare (only two visible thin stripes)
6) I have an oil track on my Fringe that was a good 10-15 degrees wide that starts just a little above the one I had on my Path and continued down... the right side. So it was exactly opposite of the track on the Path.

I'm taking these finding to the Pro and getting his best guess synopsis of what in the hoot is going on. Because I sure don't know....
Throwing the Fridge, I was convinced that I just needed to resign myself that I would forever be blessed with a backup ball. Throw my polyester ball into the picture and all of a sudden the case for that argument is more than immediately invalidated.

I have some video from tonight taken only from behind me that I after I edit and get it posted to youtube I'll toss the link us.

[DLP]

Scratch the video.. unless you want 17 minutes of watch me from the mid-thigh down. Hubby didn't get it when I asked him to take the camera along - nor did he ask!

[bowlerRob2]

Is throwing a backup ball necessarily a bad thing?

As a perpetual student of the sport I have learned to believe there is no "wrong" way of bowling. In this video (it's more than 3 hours long but you can find a quality backup bowler in it). Jessica bowls with a mean backup and is able to bowl alongside the likes of Missy Parkins, Kendra Gaines and Lynda Barnes. Check her out! (She does have some problems with 7 pins just like the rest of us have occasional trouble with 10 pins).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar6EjVPu9lk

[Tampabaybob]

Donna, I understand your confusion, as to which way to go. As Bill mentioned earlier, Women's arms are different from Men's, in the natural way they bend. The decision, to stay with the back up ball vs a hook has several pro's and cons. 1st off, would be which release is more "comfortable" to you ? Very important ! Next, I would suggest, if you want to stay with your back up ball, then you need to have the proshop look at the way it's drilled. Most pro shops drill a right handers ball One way and one way only, never asking or better yet watching the way a bowler releases their ball. I'd bet my next paycheck that your ball is drilled for a right hander with the pin more towards the right side of your ring finger. Am I correct? If so, that drilling would be for someone to be able to throw a hook. BUT...if you really want to stay with your back up ball, the ball really should be drill as it would be for a leftie, to maximize the balance and weight block of the ball. Basically when you throw a back up ball, your rolling as a leftie, and if it's not drilled that way, the ball will react incorrectly.

SO, there's a decision point for you as to which way to go. I've bowled against some guys that threw a back-up ball and they were no slouches. Using the left side of the lane does have several advantages. Tough decision, but check out your ball and see how it's drilled. Just a comment from an old bowler that 'used to' work in proshops.

[DLP]

It's drilled pretty neutral right now with the pin and the cg aligned to the center of the drill pattern in what Storm lists in their drilling guide as the low track 4"x4"x2". This happens to be the used ball that was already drilled really close to my span when I picked it up, so I've left it like that until I've figured out which direction I wanted to go. The Pro has seen me throw pretty much from the start of me bowling and has made some minor adjustments for me, including introducing me to bowling tape (was that really only a few months ago?!?!). Since I'm throwing the Fringe on Sunday night, I'll probably take it into the shop on Monday to get it upgraded(HA!) with moving the pin to the left of the index finger. There are other adjustments that will happen as well so I might end up getting measured again since I want it drilled fingertip (and I haven't had a ball drilled true fingertip to my exact measurements yet though the current layout on the Fringe comes close). I actually sat down and asked him what I could do. Series of questions, we figured out what the best approach would be, basically some good ol' re-assurance that while unheard of this isn't unique (some of my frustration was trying to correct something I wanted to fix because I thought it was wrong no matter how dang uncomfortable it was going to be). He suggested going with moving the pin to the left of the middle finger and some other minor changes and seeing where it goes from there.

Threw on Friday at the little lane I was talking about. Nothing snazzy, nothing special... but I stuck to my Fringe and was back to a pretty trusty backup ball that saved me from the gutter more than once, and landed me spares more than I care to admit. It's just very very comfortable for me to throw it that way, so if I end up with a ball drilled for a backup, I'm not sure what to expect ... but it is going to be FUN (that much I do know)!!!

[billf]

It's more than just moving the pin in relation to the fingers. Think of the core as a triangle. Two points will go from finger holes to thumb hole. The other point will go towards the bowlers body. As a back up bowler you will need a drilling for a left-handed bowler which means the core will have to be rotated 180°. It's not a big deal I just didn't want you to think you were getting ripped off when they charged to plug and drill all the holes.

[DLP]

Thanks for the explanation :)

Was probably in for a complete re-drill anyway. The span is just that 1/16" of an inch to big. I'll let my Pro do what he sees fit. He's done a lot for my hubby and I. I just feel really bad for the poor guy having to tolerate the crazy lady!!!

What's really great is he has no problem coming out of the shop and watching the people who he works with bowl both before and after he has done any drilling. He'll take the ball back and do quick adjustments (like sanding out, beveling, etc) right on the spot if he sees anything he can do to improve a person's game. He has yet to steer me wrong from the onset (you know, trust the guy with years of experience).

Like Bob said, I'll get to play the left side of the lane a lot more, so who knows what may happen.

[DLP]

As a perpetual student of the sport I have learned to believe there is no "wrong" way of bowling. In this video (it's more than 3 hours long but you can find a quality backup bowler in it). Jessica bowls with a mean backup and is able to bowl alongside the likes of Missy Parkins, Kendra Gaines and Lynda Barnes. Check her out! (She does have some problems with 7 pins just like the rest of us have occasional trouble with 10 pins).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar6EjVPu9lk


Thank you MUCHLY!!! Got a chance to watch a bit of it :)

It helps to learn I'm not as much as a fruit loop as I thought I was :D

[billf]

It helps to learn I'm not as much as a fruit loop as I thought I was :D

Donna, don't get carried away. All we are weighing in on is the back up ball, not your true mental status lol:p

[DLP]

I'll take that as a compliment :D

[DLP]

Reporting in that Dippy is back in my hands :)

Plugged and re-drilled similar to the 3 1/2" X 5" X 3" high track layout (reversed of course because of that whole backup ball thing) that Storm has on their symmetrical drill sheet. She was also spit-shined and polished :)
He waited for me to come in tonight because he didn't have my fingertip measurements and he wanted to make sure it was drilled right. I have oval inserts, and with the span being just right it feels like I'm barely throwing the thing.

While I don't have to completely re-learn, I am finding that because it's set up to have be a stronger backup ball, I've had to make some adjustments.
When I bowled my 163 last Sunday, I was playing across the lane, starting with my right foot on the 10 and aiming between the 2nd and 3rd arrow, it would end up landing in the 1-2 pocket, after a sudden curve to the right once it got off the oil. This was pretty easy to repeat until today. It is safe to say that that isn't going to work anymore. It would be probably doable if I moved over another board or so, but I'm quickly running out of boards to the right.

So far, my best results have been planting my left foot on the 36 and aiming between the 5 and the 6, favoring the 5 slightly more.
Did get a chance to work with the Pro a bit, so needless to say I did get some coaching. The fact that I ended up throwing a turkey after a few things he shared with me, I can at least consider myself not a lost cause.

Since throwing a backup ball is usually considered "incorrect" there isn't a whole lot of direction or advice online regarding it. So I'm kind of winging it (not in the chicken winging it sense but in the sense that I feel like I'm really flying blind). It's going to take some time before I feel comfortable with taking what I can learn and understanding how to apply it to my game. For now, I'm going to do nothing but listen to my coach and my pro and go from there.

The good news though is she's back in my hands, and it felt good to be back on the lanes again. We are going bowling again tomorrow and then have leagues again on Sunday.

[DLP]

Actually - fix that - my left foot was on the 32 and my right on the 28. Counted 5 boards to far :9

[Tampabaybob]

So, I'll assume (!) that the guy in the pro shop agreed that the ball was drill wrong for someone who normally throws a reverse hook, right? Once you get used to what the ball reaction is going to give you, you'll be fine. If it's really hooking a lot, keep in mind that you want to set the ball down in the heavier part of the oil (at the line) and let it slide out to the friction area. In other words, if you're targeting the 5 board you want to lay the ball down, maybe around 10 or 12. Depending on how much the ball is hooking, and that might not be enough. Here's a couple of other things you can try. When getting into your stance, draw an imaginary line between the "4" pin and your target arrow and your ball. Keep moving your target to the right (still using the 4 pin as your end target). This should help you adjust to the amount of hook. Also something else that might help, that I use ALL of the time (also helps with your follow through), and that's to look about 3 feet past the arrows at a spot on your target board and use that as your target. It'll help the ball go a little longer. Try these and let me know if it helped.

[billf]

Everything you learned will still apply, just read it all as if you have to flip everything. It's what left-handers have to do all the time.

What Bob alluded to above with looking past the arrows works well. It's called three point targeting with quiet eye. Basically to go further down lane move your eyes further down lane. To hook earlier you move your eyes closer to the foul line. In full form it's an advance technique but using the basic part will get you close. At State this year I actually had to aim at the ten pin to hit the pocket. Yes, it felt strange looking that far down lane and that far over but I couldn't get any further left with my feet.

[DLP]

Bob and Bill - both of you are either psychic OR ...well I'll leave it at that.

I started reading both your posts and had to sit here laughing, because I was JUST reading about the three point targeting with quiet eye last night off of BowlingKnowldge.info and watched the youtube video explaining it.

And yes, Bob - no assumption needed there - ball was drilled all wrong for backup, so as my Pro puts it "I'm not fighting the laws of physics anymore".

[billf]

That article had me shaking my head a bit. It just didn't seem logical. So I printed it out, went to the alley and put it to practice. It's amazing how the body and mind adapt to change the roll without you even realizing it.
Joe Slowingski is also the coach that was at IRTC that blind folded bowlers to perform his study on muscle memory and the importance of being able to see your target. The jist was elite bowlers don't have to see their target to get to the pocket. Their superior mental visualization was enough to get there even if carry percentage was down.

Now when you read some of Joe's articles, remember you want to start outside the ball and end up inside of it. DYDS!

[DLP]

Hoookay.... sub 100 series and then a 140 at my last game of 4. This is going to be long winded so bear with me...

I now have no control of the ball throwing across the lane (from right to left which used to be my go to and what my coach taught me to do). Forget it, not going to happen. So to the left side of the lane it is....

The numbering is as a lefty... because that is where I start now but really need some advice.

Flipped to start on the 10 board to throw between the 2-3 arrow and always ended up on the left side of the pins. Completely missing the 1-2. So spares with the right pins.

Stood on the dots with my shoulder dropped so the ball was swinging freely and noticed where I was standing, my free swing was more over the 20 board than anything.

Moved to the left, so my feet were straddling the 5 board, tested my swing with a dropped shoulder and found it was more over the 14-15 board.

Now it is just a matter of consistency....... several throws went into the 1-2 pocket with very little effort, but left more spares than I care to admit, mostly on the right side with the 7 pin standing. The 7 pin has become my arch-nemesis.
Also had a few that right to the right of the head pin and after it got into the mix, also left pins on the right side.

Now here is the biggest challenge. I threw a couple that just hooked so beautifully from my 5 board starting point, went over my target of the 14/15 board, caught about mid-way down the lane and hooked left, completely missing the head pin. I was left with the 1,2,4,7.

Here is what I don't know.... how I did it. I asked my hubby to watch and he said that when I did that it was because my hand was open at the bottom of my swing, but he can't explain to me exactly what he means. Does anyone know what he means?

Also, I'm not sure what happened. The thumb was fitted fine for me last night and it was working great. I needed to slap in a piece of tape today because it was to lose and then on the last throw I tore open the back of my thumb just below the knuckle to the right. I've got Nu-skin on it right now but will probably need to tape it tomorrow night in order to bowl.

[J Anderson]

Hoookay.... sub 100 series and then a 140 at my last game of 4. This is going to be long winded so bear with me...

I now have no control of the ball throwing across the lane (from right to left which used to be my go to and what my coach taught me to do). Forget it, not going to happen. So to the left side of the lane it is....

The numbering is as a lefty... because that is where I start now but really need some advice.

Flipped to start on the 10 board to throw between the 2-3 arrow and always ended up on the left side of the pins. Completely missing the 1-2. So spares with the right pins.

Stood on the dots with my shoulder dropped so the ball was swinging freely and noticed where I was standing, my free swing was more over the 20 board than anything.

Moved to the left, so my feet were straddling the 5 board, tested my swing with a dropped shoulder and found it was more over the 14-15 board.

Now it is just a matter of consistency....... several throws went into the 1-2 pocket with very little effort, but left more spares than I care to admit, mostly on the right side with the 7 pin standing. The 7 pin has become my arch-nemesis.
Also had a few that right to the right of the head pin and after it got into the mix, also left pins on the right side.

Now here is the biggest challenge. I threw a couple that just hooked so beautifully from my 5 board starting point, went over my target of the 14/15 board, caught about mid-way down the lane and hooked left, completely missing the head pin. I was left with the 1,2,4,7.

Here is what I don't know.... how I did it. I asked my hubby to watch and he said that when I did that it was because my hand was open at the bottom of my swing, but he can't explain to me exactly what he means. Does anyone know what he means?

Also, I'm not sure what happened. The thumb was fitted fine for me last night and it was working great. I needed to slap in a piece of tape today because it was to lose and then on the last throw I tore open the back of my thumb just below the knuckle to the right. I've got Nu-skin on it right now but will probably need to tape it tomorrow night in order to bowl.

It looks like you've figured out that as a right=hander throwing at the 1-2 pocket you'll have to start with your feet well to the left of where a left-hander would stand to play the same line. You may want to check to see what board your left foot winds up on at the foul line to see if you drift, and also have some one watch to see which board you actually release the ball over.

"Now here is the biggest challenge. I threw a couple that just hooked so beautifully from my 5 board starting point, went over my target of the 14/15 board, caught about mid-way down the lane and hooked left, completely missing the head pin. I was left with the 1,2,4,7."
Don't you mean hooked right? The 2, 4, & 7 are all left of the headpin.

As for the Thumb it sounds like you started bending your thumb to grip the ball. Odd as it may sound you may have needed another piece of tape in the hole.

[DLP]

Ya hooked right.... eventually I'll get the nomenclature down because I'm a righty throwing like a lefty so, I have to think of things bass ackwards now...

I feel like I'm back in high school when I was trying to learn to read bass clef after reading treble for years (if you know how to read music and didn't learn how to read both at the same time as in piano) you'll know what I mean!!!

[billf]

The tear is from gripping. Basically you're still bending the thumb at the nuckle to keep the ball from feeling like it will fall.

This applies to back up bowlers only;
In your stance place your hand under and to the outside of the ball. The lower right quadrant. Try to keep the ball in that position as far through the swing as you can. It gets easier with practice so be patient. As the arm goes by your slide ankle, rotate it as you naturally would, clockwise so your fingers come up and through the ball at the lower left quadrant. Keeping the pressure between your index finger and BASE of the thumb will help keep the thumb open. Imagine your thumbnail hitting the hole in the ball as it comes out.

Properly having the thumb exit the ball is one of the hardest parts to learn about throwing fingertip and one that most amatuers don't even realize they do wrong. At one time I actually used modeling clay and made an insert for the thumb hole to teach myself to keep my thumb open. The more I get use to it, the smaller the thumb hole becomes. The callous on the back of my thumb is now also a tenth of the size it was last year.

The part that has me perplexed is the line you're playing. It sounds as if your ball isn't moving much if you're laying down left of your target. Almost as if your guiding it towards the pocket. It could be your just creating less axis rotation and revs than I'm use to seeing from a back up ball bowler. Your coach sees you bowl so we should probably just leave that part up to him.

[billf]

To help with the thumb in the meantime, get some thumb tape and wrap it. Not only will it help to fill the gap in the hole, it will give something other than your skin to rub the ball.

[J Anderson]

Ya hooked right.... eventually I'll get the nomenclature down because I'm a righty throwing like a lefty so, I have to think of things bass ackwards now...

I feel like I'm back in high school when I was trying to learn to read bass clef after reading treble for years (if you know how to read music and didn't learn how to read both at the same time as in piano) you'll know what I mean!!!

Okay, If it hooked to the right, it looks like on those few shots you did every thing right with your release. As Bill says you probably need your coach to watch, and maybe give you some drills to practice doing it right.

I know what you mean about music. I went from playing violin to singing baritone/bass. Someday I'll get back to learning to play the banjo which will mean reading tabs, which is really confusing because it looks like a staff but its not.

[DLP]

Just applied a layer of Nu-skin liquid bandage and then spent some time whimpering like a sissy. After I get tape around it tonight, I should be okay :9

[Tampabaybob]

WOW Donna !!......... Bill, John and I will be getting on a plane today to maryland and will need a ride from the airport to your bowling center to spend at least 6 hours
coaching you !! :confused: Well, Plans changed, have to go food shopping with my wife ! LOL Anyway, it'd be great if we all could do that and get everyone on the right track instead of doing this with words. I'd love to have the "fortunes" it would be to be able to do just that. Until then we're stuck with what we have....bowling forums. You're making leaps and bound in the game and finding out just how difficult this game 'can be'. It seems the more you apply yourself sometimes the harder it gets.

Yesterday, I had the father of one of my Junior bowlers ask me to bowl with him to help him out. Usually on Saturday, I've been bowling after the kids leagues, with another Father son duo and we just added a third. So as I'm trying to bowl/practice I'm helping all 3 out and trying to explain where to move when their ball does "X". By the 3rd game, 2 of the 3 have now gotten it and the 3rd (the Junior bowler) who by the way is averaging 200+, is ready for his head to explode. So it was the fathers 2 and the junior 0 yesterday, and we'll probably be doing the same thing next week. Sometimes, even trying to explain moving one's line, to adjust for different lane conditions, in person is difficult. They'll eventually get it, hope I live long enough to see it...(Just joking !)

[classygranny]

Donna, I was watching the gal on our Friday am league (she throws a really nice reverse hook) and thought about you and some of your struggles.

Just my humble opinion, but I believe you should start back at the basics (and maybe you have already). You will need to remember that your stance, approach and footwork will all be related to a "righty" and that your release and lane activity will be related to a "lefty".

I would suggest (only a suggestion!!!) that you start with finding your drift. You might notice that when you move more to the left of the lane, you may walk to the line differently. Most coaches use at least 5 or more approaches (with or without the ball) to determine how much drift you have (hopefully, it is minimal and is consistent). If it is consistent, great - use it to your advantage...if you think it is too much, you might want to work on your approach. There are varying ideas about what is too much...and keep in mind women do seem to drift a bit more than men. Some coaches allow up to 7-10 board while others say this is way too much.

Let's say your drift is a consistent 5 board left drift (that is what mine is). And for arguments sake let's say you want to play straight up 10 board (lefty) to find the reaction of the ball initially. You would want your landing foot to end on board 3 - as the middle of your ball should be laying down about 7 boards to the right of your left toe (righty), thus you would start with your left foot on board 8 (so you could just remember that with a 5 board drift you would always lay the ball down 2 boards right of where you are standing (less calculation).

From there you would just adjust to the lane conditions as a lefty would, as you would watch the ball's reaction to the lane conditions.

Also, as far as the release drill. Where we righties use the football underhand toss, you would want to use a round type ball, softball, nerf ball, soccer, etc...something you are comfortable with. Stand a few feet from the wall (unless you want to chase the ball for additional exercise - or have a dog retrieve it for you) and do a one step drill concentrating on the release and turn of the fingers "clockwise" like a lefty - keeping your elbow inside toward your body (that is what actually makes a person naturally throw a reverse hook). Using a multi-colored or a designed ball will help you see the rotation of the ball-just like your bowling ball would rotate.

I think once your brain adjusts to what is lefty and what is righty you will become a great bowler. You have the desire and the passion to make this work for you.

Also, if you think any of this will screw you up, then ignore away. Sometimes I believe we tend to "listen" to too much and we don't always toss out the stuff we don't need.

[DLP]

Talking about targeting and drift and such... I got curious so I found an old thread on here that linked back to a Slowinski article I'm going to go read re: eye dominance.

Any input on eye dominance? I sometimes think maybe I should just bowl learn to bowl left handed at this point.

I'm a left-eye dominant right-hander throwing a reverse hook....

[classygranny]

Talking about targeting and drift and such... I got curious so I found an old thread on here that linked back to a Slowinski article I'm going to go read re: eye dominance.

Any input on eye dominance? I sometimes think maybe I should just bowl learn to bowl left handed at this point.

I'm a left-eye dominant right-hander throwing a reverse hook....

Left-eye dominance should work to your advantage throwing the reverse hook. I understand that left-eye dominant right handers or vice-versa have the most problems in aiming. I haven't read the article in some time so maybe I will revisit that as well. You may find you are hitting a bit left of your mark (by someone else's viewing) than you believe you are. But that happens with all of us, as eye-dominance and depth perception varies with each of us. I always tell my coach I hit the 8 board and he tells me it looks more like the 9....go figure.

As far as bowling left-handed...you might find that the left hand may want to also throw a reverse hook...what then?

Stay with what you are comfortable with...it will come to you. I am curious...when you hold your arm straight out in front of you with your palm up...how far can you rotate your thumb to the right without bending your elbow?

[DLP]

About 45 degree degrees. It can go ever further if I hold my arm what is "visibly" straight (which to me feels slightly bent). I have some slight hyper-mobility (read double jointed) in my elbows that's always equated to some pretty neat party tricks.

[classygranny]

About 45 degree degrees. It can go ever further if I hold my arm what is "visibly" straight (which to me feels slightly bent). I have some slight hyper-mobility (read double jointed) in my elbows that's always equated to some pretty neat party tricks.

Wow...that is a lot of flexibility. You should have no problem perfecting the reverse hook.

I just learned a few things you might be interested in....

From a friend that does competitive shooting, and plays most sports that is opposite-eye dominant..."she could be missing her targets to the left. Some correction, is that she could look further away to help with targeting." In other words applying this to bowling you would look farther down the lane...ie a foot or so, or more down the lane towards the pins. Just be sure it is comfortable for you and that you don't have a tendency to rear-up at the line.

Also, one of the guys we bowl with that use to coach the women's teams around town says, "The exact same principles of hooking a ball are applied on a backup ball, except the hand rotates clockwise. A backup ball comes natural for some women, as the construction of the female wrist/elbow allows for it to rotate clockwise more naturally."

[DLP]

Thank's for the offer Bob :9 Food shopping though takes precedence! You can't bowl on an empty stomach.

Learned a little more at leagues as to what is causing my "thumb" issue. Trying to see if I can explain. One of the biggest advantages I got from using the Mongoose Lifter was not only was it stopping my wrist from snapping back, but having the support against the back of my hand really let me feel like I could open and relax my palm and fingers. I know, placing a lot of trust in the brace, but it really let the ball sink into the flesh of my hand, where it got to the point that I felt like I needed absolutely NO grip on the backswing to hold the ball. It just kind of stayed there thanks to momentum.

I stopped using the lifter when I got the ball re-driled (and got it back Friday night). I stopped, thinking because of how the brace is setup, it would probably get in the way of throwing a backup ball. But now, I'm not so sure.

I didn't put two and two together until leagues tonight when I finally caught on to what was happening. Because I haven't developed the memory yet of what that ball feels like relaxed in my hand, what I'm running into is that my old habit of gripping the ball has come back. I caught myself more than once doing that and it was really noticeable because of the blister on my thumb. But, I feel like if I don't grip the ball is going to fall out of my hand on the backswing. Yet, I DONT feel like this will happen when my hand is pressed against the support that the Lifter provides, because it forces my hand into a more open position that lets it hold the ball much easier, with the flesh of palm holding the ball instead of the fingers (make sense?)

I can get the feeling it provides if I face my right palm up, and press lightly in the center of my hand from below with my left hand. It visibly causes the base of the fingers to flare ever so slightly and I can feel how the palm of my hand is much more open.

Does anyone know of any drills I can work on to get into the habit of holding my hand open and more relaxed without having the brace on? Or should I just bite the bullet, strap the Lifter back on and try and work with it as far as my release is concerned?

[billf]

This applies to back up bowlers only;
In your stance place your hand under and to the outside of the ball. The lower right quadrant. Try to keep the ball in that position as far through the swing as you can. It gets easier with practice so be patient. As the arm goes by your slide ankle, rotate it as you naturally would, clockwise so your fingers come up and through the ball at the lower left quadrant. Keeping the pressure between your index finger and BASE of the thumb will help keep the thumb open. Imagine your thumbnail hitting the hole in the ball as it comes out.[QUOTE]

Not a drill but how it should be done. Easier with a tight thumb hole.

[QUOTE=DLP;88225]Does anyone know of any drills I can work on to get into the habit of holding my hand open and more relaxed without having the brace on? Or should I just bite the bullet, strap the Lifter back on and try and work with it as far as my release is concerned?

Your turn Bob. I've personally don't recall any drills for this. Maybe the release drill or one-step drill?

[DLP]

Noted, on a sticky. Getting it tattooed on the inside of my eyelids (just kidding - I think)....

[J Anderson]

Noted, on a sticky. Getting it tattooed on the inside of my eyelids (just kidding - I think)....

Donna, read this only if Bills advice doesn't work.

For some people what works is to hold the ball in the position that they want the hand to be in at release when they get into their stance. Its sort of like telling your hand o.k. this is how you're supposed to wind up. It does complicate things as you would have to rotate your fingers counter clockwise as the ball drops into the swing and then back clockwise at release. That's why I said not to read this unless Bill's advice doesn't work, simpler is almost always better in this game.

[billf]

Donna, keeping the pressure from different fingers (ring, middle or index) and the base of the thumb will affect ball roll. Experiment with each. Takes some of the boredom out of practice. Once you get use to keeping the thumb pressure lmited to the base you will gradually reduce your bending of the thumb.

[DLP]

:cool:

Got the thumb hole ovaled a smidge on the inner side. Wow did it make a DIFFERENCE! I went from bleeding profusely after two throws to not getting bit by Dippy at all.

After that small change, I felt like I could go into the back swing with absolutely no need to grip the ball. The thumb rested into the oval area!!!
Btw - Bill worked with what you had recommended with the hand in the lower right quadrant. I don't know WHY I wasn't doing this before;well I know why, because everything that is written says under the ball!!! Anyway, I worked with keeping my hand where you had mentioned. I didn't bowl my best - but I couldn't have bowled more consistently tonight if I had tried. :D

I had the absolutely most beautiful single oil stripe this evening after a few throws on fresh oil. Pro was able to measure and get my axis point.

Took some sagely advice from the pro, I need to take what I have and what I'm comfortable with and dial in my timing. After seeing the oil track from the ball (and its consistency) and looking at me bowl for a bit, that is where he stands.

I get to work with my coach again on Wed night. He is fully aware of the change to the backup drill pattern. :)

There is no kermit the frog "YAAAAAAA!" so use your imagination

I asked the Pro if he could write the definitive guide to bowling a backup ball... he said a few more months and I should be able to do it :P ... I don't want to WRITE it.. I want to READ it!!!

[Tampabaybob]

Donna, you're on the right track. I'm not sure if your coach can "definitively' put it down in writing, but if he can that will help you. As all bowlers are (slightly) different, it boils down to getting as much practice as you can, and getting that muscle memory settled. As I said being on the right track helps immensely, because now you're "feeling" what's going on during your approach and also your release. Many bowlers that have bowled for years can't tell you that they can feel what's going on and that really hampers any chance for improvement until they do. Sure, it's nice to see people continuously throw as though they were a machine, but if they can't feel what's going on in all aspects of their game, they'll always have problems. You're way ahead of the power curve, so keep it going. Get out and practice as much as you can this summer and by the time the fall leagues roll around you'll be more than ready. Good luck.