Changed up my backswing.... now im lost

[cbunker]

Anyone give some pointers on where my timing is off now... I used to throw with not much backswing at all, I decided I wanted to get behind the ball more and increased my backswing just about a month ago, I was averaging around 200 and now I'd be lucky if I was averaging 175. I know my backswing is a lot better but to me it feels like a timing issue and possible a bit of an accuracy problem. I can try and post a video if needed. Half tempted to go back to my old ways. Just was looking for more consistency and more on the ball. Thanks Guys.

[JPbowl]

No real idea, crystal ball is in the shop so a video would be best. ;)

Just to throw something out there, staying behind the ball has nothing to do with how high your back swing is.
Whatever your doing to get increased backswing is most likely the culprit, cut it out.

[e-tank]

im no coach just merely speaking from experience as i too recently increased my backswing quite a bit. For me it was all about getting used to swinging that high and learning to control it on the way down. At first i went from a 175 avg to a 130 but now about 2 months later i back to where i was and improving. Imo just give it practice and time

[bowlerRob2]

I think it will be hard to help you without a video; but have you read "The Game Changer" by Mark Baker? IMO the best bowling "self help" book there is. About $20 on Amazon. Even less if you get the Kindle version. A book you don't just read once, I refer to my copy a lot.

[classygranny]

Just a thought, but when my coach was working on some of my timing issues, we noticed that when my backswing was higher, I had to have a slow 1st, 2nd AND 3rd step - or my 3rd step had to be longer in order to keep the ball in time with my feet. Or you can start the ball earlier - I actually start my ball before my feet as this is the best way for me to get in-time with the ball.

Oh, and the higher the backswing, the more knee bend you will need - that's what the coach said anyway! So sometimes when we get older we shorten our backswing to compensate for the lack of knee bend.

[billf]

www.bowlingknowledge.info read all you can about torso rotation, balance arm, etc.
Without a video it's hard to say but chances are you are not starting the ball early enough. As for accuracy, other than timing your swing plane may be off. This is usually caused by incorrect torso rotation.

[GeoLes]

I tried "enhancing" my back swing after watching some of the pros on video. (I was watching Charis Barnes and Pete Weber.) While practicing the "improved" swing, a friend came over and said that I should just let the ball swing naturally and walk it to the foul line. (which I knew already,but somehow got lost in my efforts to improve). Now I notice Michael Fagan's (AKA "Stretch Armstrong") effortless swing. Also check out Miko Koivumeini (spelliing ?) and Parker Bohn III. They all have natural swings, with nothing special about them except they have control and magical release.

For me new and improved did not apply when it comes to swing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Tampabaybob]

George, you hit the nail right on the head with, "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Many times when we want to change something we actually will go to a different direction that actually is going to hamper our improvements. People are of the misconception that a high backswing is always a way to improve, when actually, it could be the downfall of their average. When in doubt, check with a certified coach. Changing one's backswing means changing other aspects of your approach as well. My theory always has been, to enhance the natural rhythm you have, utilizing hand positions, line changes, and minimal sped changes. If doing something does not come natural to you, you'll find it very difficult to master. Sure there are a few thing we teach that may take a while but I've never taught anyone to have a high backswing. Does that make sense ?

[billf]

Depends on the player's goal, Bob. If all they want to do is be competitve in a social league or maybe even their local scratch league, then sure, leave alone all you can. But if they want to compete on a regional or national level, then it's time to teach them the ways that will improve leverage. If the higher backswing creates more revs, speed and better ball reaction but the only thing keeping that from being a reality is changing when the ball is started by a step or a half step, then why should we sacrifice all that can be gained? Because some coach 30 years ago said to start the ball at that particular point? What if whoever that coach was, was a meathead? Anything becomes natural if you do it long enough but that doesn't mean it's correct or the most effective way of doing it.

Kind of like me being a jerk. It didn't always come this natural. I had to work at it. The Drill Sargeant Academy made sure I had the tools needed and coached the beginning stages. The rest was up to me.

[JPbowl]

I think too many work on backswing when the should be focusing on some other area of their game, seen a bunch of guys over the years with high back swings and horrible releases.
One guy we used to call statue of liberty because he literally held the ball over his head like a scepter and slammed it in the lane on release like he was putting up an umbrella at the beach.

[billf]

I think too many work on backswing when the should be focusing on some other area of their game, seen a bunch of guys over the years with high back swings and horrible releases.
One guy we used to call statue of liberty because he literally held the ball over his head like a scepter and slammed it in the lane on release like he was putting up an umbrella at the beach.

I agree with you. The trick is when a bowler pays to be coached on a specific item thinking the rest of his game is 'perfect' when in fact it sucks. I'm not talking slightly off but more along the "how do you even avg 130" bad. That's when you either have to be brutally honest and tell them OR teach them what they want while incorporating other changes they need. When they first meet me and maybe a couple times after it's the second. After that, it's the first way. Last night I told a young dumper that if he did that again instead of how he paid to learn, I was going to tie him to the chair so the rest of us could rest our nerves lol

[Tampabaybob]

Depends on the player's goal, Bob. If all they want to do is be competitve in a social league or maybe even their local scratch league, then sure, leave alone all you can. But if they want to compete on a regional or national level, then it's time to teach them the ways that will improve leverage. If the higher backswing creates more revs, speed and better ball reaction but the only thing keeping that from being a reality is changing when the ball is started by a step or a half step, then why should we sacrifice all that can be gained? Because some coach 30 years ago said to start the ball at that particular point? What if whoever that coach was, was a meathead? Anything becomes natural if you do it long enough but that doesn't mean it's correct or the most effective way of doing it.

Kind of like me being a jerk. It didn't always come this natural. I had to work at it. The Drill Sargeant Academy made sure I had the tools needed and coached the beginning stages. The rest was up to me.

OK, So I'll call you SGT Jerk !! Listen, there are no specs on his personal page, so you CAN'T assume what he's averaging. I would hope in "ours" people will have to fill out the BASIC info. So if he's a new bowler why worry about the height of a backswing? There are probably many more issues there to be fixed, Right? And who's to say he want's to shoot national tournaments or be a high roller ? You are making too many assumptions without the basis of knowing how long he's been bowling or any other facts required to make good judgement calls.


I think too many work on backswing when the should be focusing on some other area of their game, seen a bunch of guys over the years with high back swings and horrible releases.
One guy we used to call statue of liberty because he literally held the ball over his head like a scepter and slammed it in the lane on release like he was putting up an umbrella at the beach.

JP You and I on on the same wavelength. And that's what I just stated to Bill. The guy really needs to fill out his data on his form so when he asks questions guys that have many years of experience can go in and see where he's at average wise and knowledge wise. Also I would love it if people would know to submit a video.

[billf]

In the origianl post it said was 200 avg now fighting to keep 175. So it's ok for you to assume he has a low average with tons of issues?
Why bother coaching at all if as you've stated lately, drift doesn't matter, backswing doesn't matter. As long as they can hit a gnats *** at the arrows the rest of the game doesn't matter?

[Tampabaybob]

In the origianl post it said was 200 avg now fighting to keep 175. So it's ok for you to assume he has a low average with tons of issues?
Why bother coaching at all if as you've stated lately, drift doesn't matter, backswing doesn't matter. As long as they can hit a gnats *** at the arrows the rest of the game doesn't matter?


OK, somewhere I missed the 200 average post, my bad, but lets settle something here. Lets agree to disagree and things will fall into place much better.

Changing someones approach (i.e.; drifting), or backswing, just for the sake of changing, doesn't necessarily, help many people if they can't hit the broad side of the barn. Too many times I've seen coaches go WAY OVERBOARD on telling bowlers what they should change, when in reality, they didn't even have the basics down such as "hitting the gnats axx" !! I use terminology like that to get my point across. I do believe that some people get very disillusioned when a coach tries to change to much too soon. When that happens you've completely, reversed the effect of getting that person's average up as well as his or her confidence. And that's not what we should be trying to do. Small incremental steps, based on the basics, let them get to the next level of competency, and then move on with the more difficult technical stuff.

Some of the stuff I agree with, IF the bowler has the capability and experience to be able to understand and execute the techniques. Most times though, here on the boards we are dealing with "average bowlers" and not the 210 -230 average guys. ( although I have had one instance of the latter and once I found out what he was averaging asked why he was asking here on the boards for advice?)

We are soon (August 1st) going to be in a "similar/new situation" and you and I as with anyone, will always have different views of thoughts about things. And that's ok. It's up to the individual that's receiving the information to sort it all out, try different approaches, swings, grips, hand positions, etc., and see what works for them. We both have the same goal, I believe, just different ways of getting people we coach, to get there. Do you agree with that ?

[Hampe]

Lol....I'll try and not get involved in the argument that's brewing up here :)......but my response to the OP would be that, based on the info he's given, he probably just needs to slow down the timing of his footwork. A lot of players I've seen that tried to get a high back swing like the pros don't adjust their footwork properly, and they end up muscling the ball to catch up with their feet.

[Tampabaybob]

Paul, you are 100% correct. Slower feet would help.

[billf]

Lol....I'll try and not get involved in the argument that's brewing up here :)......but my response to the OP would be that, based on the info he's given, he probably just needs to slow down the timing of his footwork. A lot of players I've seen that tried to get a high back swing like the pros don't adjust their footwork properly, and they end up muscling the ball to catch up with their feet.

I agree and don't be a chicken-get involved lol


Paul, you are 100% correct. Slower feet would help.

Bob, glad to see you get fired up a little. While I usually assume a higher than actual average, you assume the opposite. It is harder to do this on a computer but I believe it just goes back to the type/average of bowler we are use to dealing with on a daily basis in person.

I also agree with you that all we and probably any coach want to do is help. A 200 avg bowler trying to get to 210 or higher and wants to increase their backswing isn't abnormal especially given today's power game. That being said, when teaching a person to bowl for the first time, I start with a basic stroker style and teach them more as they can handle it. Some will never get past that stage and that's fine. Some, like bowldave on the other thread, will work their tail off to be the best they can be.