Need help with my hook

[rimvydukas]

Hi,

I'm trying to learn hook correctly and I'm having some kind of hook curse:( I know that hand must turn on to 45 degrees position, I know that thumb must exit first and that I need to turn ball with two fingers. I try to do this as hard as I can but my hand overturns every time:( It turns to 90 degree position most of time and feeling is that I did not turn this hand at all or very very slightly:), best I was able to achieve was 60-70 degrees. Can anyone help me with some advice or good drill to overcome this curse?

Here is a video of me:

http://youtu.be/oasNp2VW16U

Thanks in advance.

[Greenday]

1. Balance - Work on holding your pose after you throw the ball.

2. Turning your hand a little too early.

3. Getting to the line a little bit early. You are already at the line, but your ball is behind back leg still.

4. Someone better at teaching than me (bilf), correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you are on top of the ball instead of behind it.

[rimvydukas]

Thank you for your thoughts, balance and slightly earlier hand turn are well known things for me I'm trying to improve, as for the third suggestion I was teached this way to come at foul line at first I think there are different techniques regarding this. But my main thing I want to know and learn is what to do to be able not overturn my hand while trying to hook. I want it to stay at 45 degrees. It seems that I'm not able to turn the ball with two fingers when the thumb exits. So I hope to find some kind of effective drill or advice regarding this. Tried to watch a lot of videos on youtube and it seems that everything is clear but only till i'm trying to do this myself:)

[classygranny]

To emulate the feel of the release...hold a football underhanded and toss out in front of you with some uplift & turn as you step into the toss with your sliding bowling foot (it would look like an underhand spiral football toss). This exercise emulates the feel of the release of a bowling ball as you release the thumb and lift/turn with the fingers still in the ball. Works for some...not for others.

[Greenday]

To emulate the feel of the release...hold a football underhanded and toss out in front of you with some uplift & turn as you step into the toss with your sliding bowling foot (it would look like an underhand spiral football toss). This exercise emulates the feel of the release of a bowling ball as you release the thumb and lift/turn with the fingers still in the ball. Works for some...not for others.

After I do my workout at the gym, I grab a dumb bell that's 20 lbs., get in front of the mirror, then practice swinging it with my hand turned in the correct position. It's been helping a lot with me staying inside the ball.

[billf]

60° is not a bad axis rotation. Yes, you're turning the hand more to get this than a 45° rotation. Currently you turn from 8 to 3. If your hand was further under the ball you could then turn from 8 to 5 and get the rotation you want with a desirable axis tilt.
When you watch your video see where your hand is at the point of release. If you draw an imaginary line across the middle of the ball, like the equator of our planet, you will notice you're close to this line or slightly above. The further below this line you can get, the more hook potential you will have.

Here is a video of the one-step drill which really helps learn the release position

http://youtu.be/QZ23LKBLemw

[rimvydukas]

billf,

Thank you so much for your valuable answer. I wait for them everytime:)

You are saying that I turn hand from 8 till 3 o clock. When I started to make slow motion videos of this moment I saw that hand turned even till 1 o clock. Videos helped me a little.

I know this one step drill. I use it when I have problems with four steps. Here is an video of me in one step (this video rule out balance, timing questions):

https://www.box.com/s/5ll9t8vetlrqfi41vn0v

It seems that in this video I have the same overturn:( Strangest part is that it feels to me that I turn hand very slightly but when I look at the video, I see different story:( I looked at this second video of me one more time and it seems that fingers get a little bit above equator on the last swing. Or do you think they are there every time?

And let me clarify to be sure - are you saying that my main reason of overturning the hand are fingers above equator? What do you think about slightly early hand turn as others suggested? And look at this video of rotations comparisions:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOINRpWGrlw

In most cases fingers are above equator but these bowlers somehow manage to turn hand by 45 degrees and to rotate the ball with two fingers. You are saying that I'm turning hand till 3 oclock. But from my video I can see that and in this case I still barely rotate ball with two fingers. It seems that the ball comes out from these fingers and the thumb almost at the same time:(

And thank you again for your time.

[billf]

Bowlspot video-Not to be mean, just blunt: that video is great to show how not to release a ball. There wasn't a single good release in the entire video. If that was to show something good, they missed by a mile and should be ashamed of themselves.

Your video- hand was closer to the equator. Your arm going behind your back is real evident there. Your thum should be exiting earlier. Fingers above the equator create a spin and not usable revs. It seems like a little bit because it's less than three inches. The turn needed is really small. It's the speed of the turn that creates the revolutions combined with the upward lift of the hand/arm. The area where the fingers are created axis rotation while the thumb position when exiting varies tilt.

[rimvydukas]

So if I understood you correctly my main goal is put fingers under equator? Are you saying that if I'll be able to do that I will get more revs and less spin and less turn of the hand?

Can you tell me more about thumb? When exactly must it exit to be able to get good revs and almost no tilt and 45 degrees turn of the hand?

Can you elaborate more on thumb position and tilt? For example - particular thumb position = particular tilt.

[GeoLes]

I think of balancing the ball on my thumb throughout the swing. at the last second, I extend the palm as if shaking hands with the pins. YOu can do this with a basketball, soccer ball, what have you. Just hold the ball as you would a bowling ball making sure it rests on thumb and finger tips, with palm UNDER the ball. Sustain that position throughout a gentle swing as long as you can. When you reach the release point immediately snap to handshake position. Feel the ball free itself from the the thumb and the fingers will naturally cause it to spin.

[billf]

I think of balancing the ball on my thumb throughout the swing. at the last second, I extend the palm as if shaking hands with the pins. YOu can do this with a basketball, soccer ball, what have you. Just hold the ball as you would a bowling ball making sure it rests on thumb and finger tips, with palm UNDER the ball. Sustain that position throughout a gentle swing as long as you can. When you reach the release point immediately snap to handshake position. Feel the ball free itself from the the thumb and the fingers will naturally cause it to spin.

Listen to this man, he has some great drill ideas!

the thumb exits before the hand turns. Don't worry about adjusting for tilt. Most people, even many pros, can't alter tilt at will.

[Tampabaybob]

One of the best analogies, I've heard of and use a lot, is comparing your release to that of turning a door knob and opening a door. It put's everything in the correct position and will accomplish the correct position upon release. Try it, it works !

[classygranny]

One of the best analogies, I've heard of and use a lot, is comparing your release to that of turning a door knob and opening a door. It put's everything in the correct position and will accomplish the correct position upon release. Try it, it works !

:( Not if you are right handed and turn door knobs from left to right...just saying.

[billf]

I had a youth bowler do that to me! We walked over to the door where I then asked her to turn the knob. She reached up with her right hand and turned it clockwise then looked at me and said, "Like that?". Not laughing was one of the hardest things I did that day. She did go home and practiced turning the door knobs though and now has a nice hook. Of course her mom thought I was insane.

[classygranny]

I had a youth bowler do that to me! We walked over to the door where I then asked her to turn the knob. She reached up with her right hand and turned it clockwise then looked at me and said, "Like that?". Not laughing was one of the hardest things I did that day. She did go home and practiced turning the door knobs though and now has a nice hook. Of course her mom thought I was insane.

LOL LOL - now that I've picked myself up off the floor from laughing so hard...I thought it was only me that turned knobs that way because no one had ever challenged that analogy.

I think I'm too old to start opening doors the other direction, so I guess I will stick to "answer the phone and put the phone to your ear" method. Of course, this only works with us "oldies" as no one has a landline phone anymore. Coach according to age does wonders as well.

Although, if Donna opens a door clockwise, that would be a great drill for her as well.

[billf]

After that I started to pay attention and did a little study with my friends, without them knowing. When I reach for a door with my palm down, I turn the knob clockwise. Palm up, counter clockwise. All my friends did the same. I didn't have any females attempt this. That wasn't on purpose, just weren't any around at the time.
Now I'm wondering if the extra elbow flexibility females generally have that allows for a back up would also show on the door knob test.

[dnhoffman]

See your thumb position when you finish tells me you're coming around the ball with your hand instead of behind it. Relax that thumb and come through the ball with your fingers - the rotation to the side should happen naturally.

[aussiedave]

Hi,

I'm trying to learn hook correctly and I'm having some kind of hook curse:( I know that hand must turn on to 45 degrees position, I know that thumb must exit first and that I need to turn ball with two fingers. I try to do this as hard as I can but my hand overturns every time:( It turns to 90 degree position most of time and feeling is that I did not turn this hand at all or very very slightly:), best I was able to achieve was 60-70 degrees. Can anyone help me with some advice or good drill to overcome this curse?

Here is a video of me:

http://youtu.be/oasNp2VW16U

Thanks in advance.
Watched your vid and the first thing I saw was that you are rotating your wrist way too early.
I hardly roll my wrist at all by (design) and get enough hook to do the job and I bowl with a blue hammer urethane ball with about 150 games on it.
I would suggest a drill for you, and it is more about the follow through than anything else so is easy to learn and remember.
You want to hold the same hand position right through the swing.
The ball will ideally be just a little past a flat position - the thumb should be just a little past 12 o'clock. You will still naturally turn the hand a little anyway and this is more than enough to generate hook and is more natural.
bring your hand up to the same place each time and try to touch the four fingers to your forehead - this will ensure you don't over-rotate.
Last but not least - let it pendulum, don't muscle the uplift.
Good luck.
ad.

[Tampabaybob]

LOL LOL - now that I've picked myself up off the floor from laughing so hard...I thought it was only me that turned knobs that way because no one had ever challenged that analogy.

I think I'm too old to start opening doors the other direction, so I guess I will stick to "answer the phone and put the phone to your ear" method. Of course, this only works with us "oldies" as no one has a landline phone anymore. Coach according to age does wonders as well.

Although, if Donna opens a door clockwise, that would be a great drill for her as well.

You know, I really never paid that much attention to how others open a door ! LOL Now I'm wondering, the people/kids I've used this with must've thought I was nuts for telling them that IF, they also opened the door clockwise !! Oh well, you do learn something everyday. Thank goodness the young girl I helped on Saturday with her new bowling ball happened to turn doorknobs the "correct way" LOL AGAIN !!



After that I started to pay attention and did a little study with my friends, without them knowing. When I reach for a door with my palm down, I turn the knob clockwise. Palm up, counter clockwise. All my friends did the same. I didn't have any females attempt this. That wasn't on purpose, just weren't any around at the time.
Now I'm wondering if the extra elbow flexibility females generally have that allows for a back up would also show on the door knob test.

Bill, I guess I should've known you'd open door(knob)s the opposite way !! And yes, ladies that have a natural bend to the right, would naturally turn their wrist clockwise. Gosh, now I'm going down and check every one at the lanes this week. Problem id there aren' many doors with knobs !

[billf]

Watched your vid and the first thing I saw was that you are rotating your wrist way too early.
I hardly roll my wrist at all by (design) and get enough hook to do the job and I bowl with a blue hammer urethane ball with about 150 games on it.
I would suggest a drill for you, and it is more about the follow through than anything else so is easy to learn and remember.
You want to hold the same hand position right through the swing.
The ball will ideally be just a little past a flat position - the thumb should be just a little past 12 o'clock. You will still naturally turn the hand a little anyway and this is more than enough to generate hook and is more natural.
bring your hand up to the same place each time and try to touch the four fingers to your forehead - this will ensure you don't over-rotate.
Last but not least - let it pendulum, don't muscle the uplift.
Good luck.
ad..

Good drill for a pure Stroker. Power players usually follow through with a finish out in front. Not as obvious as Stu Williams but still...

[Tampabaybob]

Hi,

I'm trying to learn hook correctly and I'm having some kind of hook curse:( I know that hand must turn on to 45 degrees position, I know that thumb must exit first and that I need to turn ball with two fingers. I try to do this as hard as I can but my hand overturns every time:( It turns to 90 degree position most of time and feeling is that I did not turn this hand at all or very very slightly:), best I was able to achieve was 60-70 degrees. Can anyone help me with some advice or good drill to overcome this curse?

Here is a video of me:

http://youtu.be/oasNp2VW16U

Thanks in advance.

Getting away from the rotation part of the question, the biggest problem I see is your balance at the line. As previously mentioned, your feet are too fast, which gets you to the line faster than your arm swing. Here's what you want to remember: "If you fall to your right, your feet are too fast. Fall to the left...your feet are too slow." 'Usually' you can fix this by slowing down just your first step. Try it and see if it'll work for you.

[JPbowl]

Getting away from the rotation part of the question, the biggest problem I see is your balance at the line. As previously mentioned, your feet are too fast, which gets you to the line faster than your arm swing. Here's what you want to remember: "If you fall to your right, your feet are too fast. Fall to the left...your feet are too slow." 'Usually' you can fix this by slowing down just your first step. Try it and see if it'll work for you.

Now i'm confused... which way is it? lol




"If you fall to your left (after releasing the ball), then your feet are too fast. If you fall to the right, your feet are too slow." You want to end up "completely" balanced on just your right foot at the line, when you deliver the ball.

[classygranny]

Now i'm confused... which way is it? lol

I think Tampabaybob has problems with his left and right - I've seen it in other posts....LOL. But so do I-always have...that's why I can laugh about it.

If you fall to the ball side (right for right-handers; left for left-handers) then your feet are too fast (I know this one very well myself-as I am currently working hard at correcting).

[Tampabaybob]

Now i'm confused... which way is it? lol

JP.. I may have been talking with a left hander when I said the second one. "For right handers" if you fall too the right your feet are too fast !! I may have had a "SENIOR" moment there....you'll have to excuse me if I did....LOL

[GeoLes]

I just read an Slowinski article on upper body control during the approach. from "At the core of fast improvements and higher level performance" he talks about weight distribution on the set-up and approach steps. Here he says:

"If you want to improve your footwork, do not try to set-over, simply lean more to the outside and your footwork will begin to step-over naturally"

[Tampabaybob]

That's very true. What I was discussing earlier was when you end up at the foul line and you're off balance and fall of either to your right or left. Slowinski's talking about something else.

[noeymc]

push down with your index finger it will help keep a strong wrist position thus helping you get behind the ball

think pushing the ball onto the lane not throwing it

[dnhoffman]

Relax your hand and go through with your fingers