Where to Stand and Spot

[HughScot]

I have read that if the ball is moving left too much the bowler should move left a few boards. And conversely if it moves right too much you move right. RH bowler. If this is true should the bowler move his spot the same amount or keep the same spot (second arrow for me)? I've been told to use the same spot but how do you walk straight to foul line and still throw the ball over the second arrow when you are now five boards to the left?

I'm confused.

[noeymc]

no same spot just move your feet

[crimsoneyes]

I usually move my mark the same direction as my feet in a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. Like 2-3 boards with my feet one board with my eyes. I don't usually do this when moving right however, not sure why but I don't seem to need to.

[HughScot]

no same spot just move your feet

Ok but this means if I move five boards to my left and my spot is the ten board and I walk straight I've got to reach out to hit that spot.

[noeymc]

no throw it at a angel

[noeymc]

look at how they throw it at the board to the left

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa_1gg0V-J0


got 1 min 7 secs as a exp

[noeymc]

its a house shot that one board on your mark wont make a huge difference btw

[vdubtx]

When I am needing to make moves I start by moving left and target the same break point with my shot. Typically that is one or two boards left after moving 2 boards left with feet. Sometimes need to move 5 left and also move my target at arrows 5 left aswell.

[dnhoffman]

To answer your question, yes you would normally adjust two things: your starting footwork position and your target, depending on how the ball/lane reacts but there are a couple caveats.

1) that you are actually hitting your mark where you're targeting.
2) that you're replicating the same swing/release/approach.

If the above is happening, then you can begin to adjust to the lane.

At first you'll learn to adjust in order to hit the pocket, later you'll learn to adjust how you're entering into the pocket.

Working with a coach might be a good idea.

[J Anderson]

Ok but this means if I move five boards to my left and my spot is the ten board and I walk straight I've got to reach out to hit that spot.

I assume that your normal shot is straight down ten so that your approach is always parallel to the lane. When you shoot at the ten pin, do you move right and and throw a straight ball down 5? I doubt it. I move over to the left side of the approach, adjust my feet, hips, & shoulders so that I'm facing the tenpin. I'm not going to walk parallel to the lane but at an angle to it since that's the way I'm facing.

The adjustment to hit the pocket is going to be similar, just a much smaller angle. You're going to stand so you're facing your target and walk toward it. You will release the ball slightly left of normal and the ball will cross over the second arrow at a slight angle to the boards, continue out to a break point well right of the tenth board and hopefully hook back to the pocket.

[noeymc]

I assume that your normal shot is straight down ten so that your approach is always parallel to the lane. When you shoot at the ten pin, do you move right and and throw a straight ball down 5? I doubt it. I move over to the left side of the approach, adjust my feet, hips, & shoulders so that I'm facing the tenpin. I'm not going to walk parallel to the lane but at an angle to it since that's the way I'm facing.

The adjustment to hit the pocket is going to be similar, just a much smaller angle. You're going to stand so you're facing your target and walk toward it. You will release the ball slightly left of normal and the ball will cross over the second arrow at a slight angle to the boards, continue out to a break point well right of the tenth board and hopefully hook back to the pocket.


i disagree here you still walk the line and try to stay on the board u started on

[HughScot]

I assume that your normal shot is straight down ten so that your approach is always parallel to the lane. When you shoot at the ten pin, do you move right and and throw a straight ball down 5? I doubt it. I move over to the left side of the approach, adjust my feet, hips, & shoulders so that I'm facing the tenpin. I'm not going to walk parallel to the lane but at an angle to it since that's the way I'm facing.

The adjustment to hit the pocket is going to be similar, just a much smaller angle. You're going to stand so you're facing your target and walk toward it. You will release the ball slightly left of normal and the ball will cross over the second arrow at a slight angle to the boards, continue out to a break point well right of the tenth board and hopefully hook back to the pocket.

Ok that is what I was looking for. I am rh and I start with my slide foot on the center mark, try and throw over the ten board (second arrow) down and hooking into the pocket. Down and in as they say. I think I heard, was told or read that if my ball is thrown correctly but it hooks too much left or not enough repeatedly I should move my feet accordingly but I wasn't sure about my spot. And I had read that my feet should remain perpendicular to the foul line except for spares. But what you are saying makes more sense.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the comments.

[HughScot]

I see we have a difference of opinions. "i disagree here you still walk the line and try to stay on the board u started on" stated by noeymc vs J Anderson's remarks. Any thoughts.

[noeymc]

if this is going to be a argument let me make sure i clarify this you angle your body to your mark but still walk the board you started on

[billf]

[QUOTE=HughScot;88636 And I had read that my feet should remain perpendicular to the foul line except for spares.[/QUOTE]

This was true in the older days when playing straight was a requirement and still works well for classic strokers. If that's your style then instead of moving left you could move both feet and target right and play the edge. It's fun and many bowlers are too timid to play there.

As for how to move right, both John and Noah are correct. The only spot I saw somewhat inaccurate in John's description was the "walk to the target". While the body is angled Noah is correct that ideally you want to finish on the same board that you started on. Most people can angle in the approach, walk straight and then the body will automatically open back up (angle) for the shot.

Adjustment amounts are different for everybody and are influenced by the ball and layout. A late breaking, sharp break ball will need less angle from the line to the arrows to hit the same breakpoint as a wide arcing ball.

So that brings me to my next adjustment. Miss left. Move your target left. This will keep the ball in the oil slightly longer allowing for a longer skid delaying the hook. Moving the breakpoint right usually allows an earlier breakpoint with a massive, hard left turn going brooklyn.

[HughScot]

Here is what I just read by Susie Minshew a noted coach: "Walk the direction of your projection. This means that you always try to walk parallel to your ball path. If you are playing down the boards (a shot which goes in the same direction as the boards) and you started on 20, you should finish very close to 20."

"If, however, you are playing an away shot which is also known as out-and-in, bellying, and swinging the ball, you should slide toward the outside. This is not drifting. You are walking a straight line; it's just not straight with the boards. It is walking parallel to your intended ball path. Think of the path you walk and your intended ball path as being railroad tracks!"

[noeymc]

This was true in the older days when playing straight was a requirement and still works well for classic strokers. If that's your style then instead of moving left you could move both feet and target right and play the edge. It's fun and many bowlers are too timid to play there.

As for how to move right, both John and Noah are correct. The only spot I saw somewhat inaccurate in John's description was the "walk to the target". While the body is angled Noah is correct that ideally you want to finish on the same board that you started on. Most people can angle in the approach, walk straight and then the body will automatically open back up (angle) for the shot.

Adjustment amounts are different for everybody and are influenced by the ball and layout. A late breaking, sharp break ball will need less angle from the line to the arrows to hit the same breakpoint as a wide arcing ball.

So that brings me to my next adjustment. Miss left. Move your target left. This will keep the ball in the oil slightly longer allowing for a longer skid delaying the hook. Moving the breakpoint right usually allows an earlier breakpoint with a massive, hard left turn going brooklyn.

how u been bill its been a long time

[billf]

Here is what I just read by Susie Minshew a noted coach: "Walk the direction of your projection. This means that you always try to walk parallel to your ball path. If you are playing down the boards (a shot which goes in the same direction as the boards) and you started on 20, you should finish very close to 20."

"If, however, you are playing an away shot which is also known as out-and-in, bellying, and swinging the ball, you should slide toward the outside. This is not drifting. You are walking a straight line; it's just not straight with the boards. It is walking parallel to your intended ball path. Think of the path you walk and your intended ball path as being railroad tracks!"


Hold the presses, we need to tell all those pros and noted coaches that they are all wrong. Guess I will have to start further left so I can NOT DRIFT to the right. I like Susie but that's a poor excuse to drift. Where did you read this at?

[billf]

I wonder if Susie meant this for bowler's who can't get any hand in the ball. Kind of odd that on the surface (I haven't read this so don't know the context) it would seem to contradict what so many noted coaches (Kim Terrel-Kearney, Brian O'Keefe, Joe Slowinski, Ron Clifton, Ron Hatfield, John Jowdy, Fred Borden, Mark Baker, Jeri Edwards, Del Ballard, Hank Boomershine, Chuck Gardner) and when was the last time any of us saw a top level bowler walk parallel to the ball path to get the ball out? It's so far out there that there has to be something lost in translation somewhere along the way.

While some of the coaches listed say it's alright to walk parallel to the path they also say to use TWO cross over steps so you still end on the board which you started on. Walking in a modified "C" is not that uncommon, especially when first learning to get the ball out.

[billf]

Hughscott, I apologize for coming across so confrontational. What I read about Susie just seems so out of character and out of context. I posted immediately without thinking of a way to word it without sounding like an ***.

[J Anderson]

if this is going to be a argument let me make sure i clarify this you angle your body to your mark but still walk the board you started on

No argument here. I'm sure that for you ( and Bill) walking parallel to the lane works. To tell the truth its been a while since I checked what my drift is and I've only checked it when playing straight up the boards. I think that I'm walking a line toward my target but I really don't know.

Of course the other thing is most of the time my adjustments are relatively small. Usually no more than a full board if I'm keeping the same target, and not more than three boards if I move my target one. So its not really obvious that my path has changed.

[dnhoffman]

Gettin feisty in here!

[billf]

Gettin feisty in here!

I'm an old, red-headed Scorpio. Comes with the territory lol

[HughScot]

Here is a link to her site where I got the quote: http://www.strikeability.com/secret1.php

[HughScot]

Here is a link to her site where I got the quote: http://www.strikeability.com/secret1.php

And I took two lessons from one of the coaches you mentioned and it was a total waste of money. I will not pass on his name at this time.

[dnhoffman]

I'm loving this..

[classygranny]

And I took two lessons from one of the coaches you mentioned and it was a total waste of money. I will not pass on his name at this time.

I would encourage you to share the name and experience, in detail. What you share might help someone from making the same mistake - or maybe it was a communication thing and someone might now be scared of that issue. But leaving it as is makes some of us question all of these coaches in the back of our minds. Be tactful, honest, and your opinions will be well respected...at least from me.

[Judy clemons]

CLASSYGRANNY is absolutely correct we need honesty first & foremost on these BOWLINGBOARDS
our PIN PALS... TRUST our OPINIONS and ADVICE totally everyone of us are here to learn from each other
and if we can not be forthright and honest with what we feel say or think then we are not giving the BOWLINGBOARDS
the RESPECT and INTEGRITY that its SENIOR members have worked so hard to INSTILL and ACCOMPLISH here.
It is not that we want you to name or pin point out or create problems for one of the coaches but by the same token
we do not need doubt and fear being instilled in the back of every ones mind about not just one but ALL COACHES???
SOMEHOW-SOMEWAY-I HOPE YOU CAN FINDA WAY TO BRING BACK PEACE OF MIND TO ALL IN THIS MATTER!!!

[GeoLes]

" Originally Posted by J Anderson
I assume that your normal shot is straight down ten so that your approach is always parallel to the lane. When you shoot at the ten pin, do you move right and and throw a straight ball down 5? I doubt it. I move over to the left side of the approach, adjust my feet, hips, & shoulders so that I'm facing the tenpin. I'm not going to walk parallel to the lane but at an angle to it since that's the way I'm facing."

The adjustment to hit the pocket is going to be similar, just a much smaller angle. You're going to stand so you're facing your target and walk toward it. You will release the ball slightly left of normal and the ball will cross over the second arrow at a slight angle to the boards, continue out to a break point well right of the tenth board and hopefully hook back to the pocket.i disagree here you still walk the line and try to stay on the board u started on "



This is interesting. I was originally taught to walk the "left railroad track" with ball on the right track" directly at my mark when I was taught to bowl fingertip. Later I took a group lesson and the pro said I was drifting and should actully walk straight along the board I began at on the approach and slide towards the mark on the last step. I thought it was odd adding two directions to a single approach, but I adjusted to it. It is what I do now, but now that I see this conversation. I wonder. I have noted the excerption with a straight ball always directly at the target, particularly 7 pin from the right side and 10-pin from the left, but if you thow a hook, you can probably make both work.

No argument here. Perhaps both are common practices depending on the school of thought. I have seen some of the Japanese bowling videos where some of the very sucessful pros take and extreme cross step and then drift back to the orginal line during the approach.

Something to think about. Now to begin my research.

[classygranny]

I think this is a very hard thing to put in writing. I just know what my coach instructs works for him making a living, and for me to have fun. I found an article that I believe is very close to what my coach instructs - not sure if he would agree, so don't quote me on that!

The first part of the article refers to the stance and how your feet positioning allows your body to open up in order to make the adjustments of moving left.

Take it for what you want...

http://www.bowlersreference.com/Bowler/Stance/

[noeymc]

he may not have been a bad coach just not the right coach for you and your self not understanding or fullying accepting what was told or he didnt explain it in a way you can understand

[Tampabaybob]

I think this is a very hard thing to put in writing. I just know what my coach instructs works for him making a living, and for me to have fun. I found an article that I believe is very close to what my coach instructs - not sure if he would agree, so don't quote me on that!

The first part of the article refers to the stance and how your feet positioning allows your body to open up in order to make the adjustments of moving left.

Take it for what you want...

http://www.bowlersreference.com/Bowler/Stance/

Great article.....thanks for posting that. It should answer roughly a thousand questions !!

[HughScot]

That is a good site Glassygranny but all I want to know is when I move right or left a few boards on my strike ball, do I also move my target spot left or right or does it remain the same spot?

[HughScot]

I agree on my experience with a bowling instructor. He is very well known and also works with some name pros. As a former flight instructor, as a hobby, I know how I would have begin a lesson and the degree of professionalism I expected was just not present. He probably works great with other people.

[HughScot]

Tampabaybob with over 30 years of coaching experience you should be a great help and you're the right age. Ha!

[billf]

Here is a link to her site where I got the quote: http://www.strikeability.com/secret1.php

Here's the disclaimer in the first paragraph, last two sentences: Keep in mind the explanation of this secret will generally only apply to strokers and rollers. Power players use a modified version to get the job done that will be discussed later.

Classic strokers would have trouble getting the ball out otherwise UNTIL they are taught how to change their hand position and open up the lane.
Guess you can tell Susie is a classic stroker while I'm more of a power player. With my lack of accuracy I need all the margin for error a power player can get.
So it really depends on your style or ability to adapt to differing styles. Noah is a power player while George soon will be ;)

[billf]

Out of the coaches I listed, my guess would be Ron Clifton. But that's only a guess.

[classygranny]

That is a good site Glassygranny but all I want to know is when I move right or left a few boards on my strike ball, do I also move my target spot left or right or does it remain the same spot?

Sorry this took off in more directions than your answer....

Consensus is that you move your feet 2 or 3 boards then move your mark 1 board the same direction; thus, the 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. If you move your feet less than 2 boards, then leave your mark where it is. But, if you have moved your feet way left, then you will need to open up your stance in order to get the ball over your target.

Also, the 3 point target comes into play as well....your laydown mark, the mark at around the arrows, and the breakpoint. That becomes the "line" you are playing and how you start in your stance (alignment) with your body/arm position plays into "playing the line".

[noeymc]

its 2:1 4:2 is normal but we are bowling on house shots where u have 5 board window in most houses and thats a tough shot for a house shot so u can keep the same mark on a house shot till u move 4 boards then id move the 4:2

or ball down

[Tampabaybob]

That is a good site Glassygranny but all I want to know is when I move right or left a few boards on my strike ball, do I also move my target spot left or right or does it remain the same spot?

Hugh.... to answer your question, let me describe it like this. Let's say your target is the second arrow and your ball is going brooklyn ( left of the headpin).
Using your target, the second arrow "AS A PIVOT POINT", to bring the ball back to the right side of the head pin you would move your feet left. Vicea versa if the ball doesn't make it to the headpin and you're hitting the 3-6 pin area, then again using your pivot point, move your feet right.

This would be the absolute basic moves you would make. Depending on your own expertise and knowledge of the lane conditions, then you may have to do a 2 & 1 move or even a 3 & 2 move. That's where you would move your feet 2 boards and your target 1 board (or 3 & 2) . Does that help?

[GeoLes]

One adjustment I learned last night was to simply point my toes further right to open up my hips and shoulders. Then walk the same line, rolling throgh the same mark. Another adjustment option. I had heard this before, but did not understand what it meant. Now I know. I guess I was not ready for the adjustment before.

Live and learn.

[noeymc]

One adjustment I learned last night was to simply point my toes further right to open up my hips and shoulders. Then walk the same line, rolling throgh the same mark. Another adjustment option. I had heard this before, but did not understand what it meant. Now I know. I guess I was not ready for the adjustment before.

Live and learn.

sorry one of us should have said this you should always point your toes towards your mark! sorry for not saying that sooner

[GeoLes]

How come nobody ever told me that? :)

Someone probably did, but it got lost in the noise of figuring out the mechanics.

[noeymc]

ill try to make a video next time i go bowling on how to do it and post it for you guys

[Tampabaybob]

Send to our new web site !!


http://www.bowlingintel.com

[billf]

How come nobody ever told me that? :)

Someone probably did, but it got lost in the noise of figuring out the mechanics.

I'm sorry. I thought I had that in the PM I sent talking about the torso rotation. That was also in an old issue of USBowler for spare shooting corner pins by Kim Terrel-Kearney. It works great for me on 10 pins. Odd how the body will want to go back to the starting angle once you reach the line.

[Doll with Balls]

you should always point your toes towards your mark! sorry for not saying that sooner

Wow, I just had an "aha" moment. No one ever told me this either. I kept struggling with how to walk my line and hit my target when they are far apart.

[noeymc]

i love having aha moments i will make a video this weekend and post it on a more detailed and so u can see what i mean rather then me just saying do this

[dnhoffman]

I think it's natural to point towards your mark, never heard it explicitly said before. Good material.