Need help with my technique 2

[rimvydukas]

Hi,

So I'm trying to improve further:) Here is my another video:

http://youtu.be/KrLoET0lhIY

One of my most annoying problems is that my fingers are not under ball's equator prior my release point. When you'll watch my video you'll see that when the ball goes to back swing fingers are more or less in normal position (its only my opinion:) ). But when the ball comes from back swing fingers are way above ball's equator. I try to keep wrist straight during my swing and I even can feel sometimes that ball weight is transferred to middle and ring fingers. But when I look at video - these fingers are way above equator. My thought is that the wrist is broken because I slightly and not intentionally try to force the ball from the back swing (hope to fix this too). So can anyone show me some kind of drill to develop good fingers position?:) Or is there any other reason that prevents fingers from required position? I know that I have early wrist turn and I'm trying to get rid of this problem too:) Thanks.

[J Anderson]

Hi,

So I'm trying to improve further:) Here is my another video:

http://youtu.be/KrLoET0lhIY

One of my most annoying problems is that my fingers are not under ball's equator prior my release point. When you'll watch my video you'll see that when the ball goes to back swing fingers are more or less in normal position (its only my opinion:) ). But when the ball comes from back swing fingers are way above ball's equator. I try to keep wrist straight during my swing and I even can feel sometimes that ball weight is transferred to middle and ring fingers. But when I look at video - these fingers are way above equator. My thought is that the wrist is broken because I slightly and not intentionally try to force the ball from the back swing (hope to fix this too). So can anyone show me some kind of drill to develop good fingers position?:) Or is there any other reason that prevents fingers from required position? I know that I have early wrist turn and I'm trying to get rid of this problem too:) Thanks.

I think that your timing is a little bit late. You are starting the last step before the ball reaches the top of the back swing. Getting the ball into the swing faster or slowing your foot steps should help.

[striker12]

you timing is way off.

you dont say how many steps you take but if you take a 5 step approach you should start your swing right when your taking the 2nd step and then you will be at the line at the same time but alittle sweaking you have to do with your speed of your feet to get it right but everything else is good because in the video you are standing there at the foul line waiting for your hand you should get to the foul line 1 second before the ball and thenright when your releaseing your knee should still be coming forward.

[rimvydukas]

Guys,

I know that my timing needs a little tweaking but it's easier to say than to achieve:) My approach is four steps approach. I've tried to push the ball earlier, but if I do so everything seems so unnatural for me, it seems that everything go to different directions:( Also I examined our country champion timing. He is almost the same height as I am. And what I saw is that he has almost the same timing as I am, but with only one difference - fourth step (5 steps approach) is longer than my third step (4 steps approach). My third step seems rather short to me. This lets his ball not to be late. I thought to try to improve my third step. But in other sources I've read that next to last step must be short to achieve powerful slide:) So what would you recommend to improve my timing - to push ball earlier (feels so unnatural), slow down the steps (I think and feel that I walk rather slow:) ), something else?

And you didn't answer to my main question - what forces my wrist to be broken at release point? Is this because that I force a ball a little from a down swing? Something else? As I said I try to keep my wrist as firm as I can, but the result is not as I want.

[vdubtx]

Timing can cause a plethora of issues. Late timing can certainly cause you to muscle the ball to catch up which is what I see you doing.

I have/had the same issue you have with timing and incorporated a push off of the ball first and then get into my steps. I also have 4 step approach with a short(quick) 3rd step. In addition to pushing off the ball, I also took a half step backwards to make myself take a longer step to get to the line.

You didn't show your ball reaction or anything else, but one other thing I saw is you set your ball down very early, before the line. Get your ball past the line, and, depending on your ball reaction possibly even 2 feet(approx .5 meter) past the line to get the ball rolling a bit later.

[rimvydukas]

Vdubtx,
Thank you for your valuable input. I think I will try to alter my timing by making longer steps at first. As I said earlier, I've tried to push ball earlier, but it felt so awkward to me and I still was not able to push out earlier. But i'll try again if I'll not find another cure for my timing. My ball hooks but not as much as it can because I lack valuable revs. And because of that I want to have my fingers under equator and want to figure it out why I cant see them in right place:) I was able to fix my hand overturn a little but I want to improve more:) And you noticed very well my another problem - I let down the ball a little bit early, but I'm trying to fix this too:) And when I let down the ball in such way it sounds like I drop it very hard on the lane:) So as I understood you right - first thing to do is to correct my timing?

[Perrin]

What I did to try to correct my timing issues was to add an additional step to my approach to get a more natural feel to my push-away/hinge

I changed to a 5 step and move the ball with my second step.

So far it is working very well. with the added bonus of adding ~1.5 mph to my ball speed (great for my problem of being rev dominant)

I'll check the video when I get a chance to comment on the wrist.

[Perrin]

for the hand position. You're right you start to pull the ball down before it reaches the top of your swing. my guess is you're doing this because you're trying to catch the ball up to where you are in your approach. since you're pulling with your arm when the ball is still moving up it causes your wrist to break back.

For trying to correct that you have a few options.
1. work on your timing so you don't have to force the armswing to catch up
2. keep your hand behind the ball rather that on top in the backswing. this has the effect of keeping the wrist cupped instead of breaking back.

Either way lead through the swing with your rign finger rather than your thumb/wrist like you do now.

The best option would be #1 but #2 can work if you just cannot change your approach timing for whatever reason.

[rimvydukas]

Perrin,

I need your opinion what would be the best thing to tweak my timing FOR ME. Look at the another video:

http://youtu.be/5QhJEg0_l9E

As i said earlier this video is with our country champion. He is almost the same height as I am. Look at his timing. I think that he has almost the same timing as I am (at least till that time when the ball goes into back swing and past his knees), but with only one difference - fourth step (5 steps approach) is longer than my third step (4 steps approach). And I think that because of that the ball is not too late in his case.

So what would be better for me - to tweak my timing to his timing, I think this will require less work, or rework my timing from scratch to traditional timing - ball goes to down swing with the right leg when it goes back from the first step? I've tried this timing at home and noticed that in this case I need to add more speed to be in sync with a swing. I don't know if this is good thing:(

[Perrin]

I would need to see a video of your full approach in normal speed to give any specific advice for timing

[J Anderson]

Perrin,

I need your opinion what would be the best thing to tweak my timing FOR ME. Look at the another video:

http://youtu.be/5QhJEg0_l9E

As i said earlier this video is with our country champion. He is almost the same height as I am. Look at his timing. I think that he has almost the same timing as I am (at least till that time when the ball goes into back swing and past his knees), but with only one difference - fourth step (5 steps approach) is longer than my third step (4 steps approach). And I think that because of that the ball is not too late in his case.

So what would be better for me - to tweak my timing to his timing, I think this will require less work, or rework my timing from scratch to traditional timing - ball goes to down swing with the right leg when it goes back from the first step? I've tried this timing at home and noticed that in this case I need to add more speed to be in sync with a swing. I don't know if this is good thing:(

Just to make sure I have this straight; the first clip is you in slow motion starting about the third step, the second is the full approach of your national champion?

Experts, or in this case, champion bowlers have practice thousands of hours to to attain their high level of skill. This explains why bowlers like Don Carter, Gary Dickenson, and many others have had successful careers without having text book form. For most people, we try to teach them to push the ball straight out in the direction of their target during the second step of a five step approach. As the ball side foot touches the floor, the ball should drop into the swing. Without a push-away on the second step you need to drop the ball into the swing with little or no push-away.

[dnhoffman]

Go watch Chris Barnes video on the 4/5 step approach and compare you're timing with your first right leg step, that would be the first thing I'd correct.

[vdubtx]

Go watch Chris Barnes video on the 4/5 step approach and compare you're timing with your first right leg step, that would be the first thing I'd correct.

Have used this video many times in past to help improve timing.

[noeymc]

if it feels good your not fixing anything you need a full speed and slow back to back need to get behind the ball more ill look at this more later after the browns game is over

[billf]

Your timing is not the same as your country's champion. At the top of his back swing he is going into the slide. Your slide has already begun well before the top off your backswing. You're a good .2 seconds behind him. In bowling that's a lifetime.
Then you have a choice to make; stay where you feel comfortable or make changes and improve. Each change suggested you seem reluctant about so why not tell everyone what change you want to make?

Hand position. One step drills with your wrist cupped under the ball. Record and watch until you can keep your hand further under the ball. If the wrist feels straight, more than likely it's not.