I'm starting the conversion. Sorry Aslan!

[Zaxmazr]

That's right, I'm converting to a two-handed bowler.

I've bowled normal my whole life. Back in high school, I had around a 200 average and was loving it. Took 4 years off because of college, and now I'm back at it.
I've been really inconsistent lately and I just can't seem to get it back.

BUT, on and off forever I have been playing two-handed as well. And to this day, I can find the sweet spot, and nail it. I can always find adjustments that work for me, quickly.
I guess the thing that stopped me from bowling two-handed awhile ago was my bowling coach back on my team in HS.

Bowled two-handed yesterday on my 3rd game, in my league after 2 games of searching for the pocket and the reaction was there.
Also, it was awesome that everybody was amazed at how consistent I was. Even got the, "Why didn't you bowl like this the whole time?"

So yep, sorry Aslan.

Here's a video of Belmo (obviously my favorite bowler) and the rise of 2hand. Ballen.


http://youtu.be/Vyq9MKgj9wE

[e-tank]

two handed is pretty fun. Im pretty proficient with it as well. Last season we were in a position round for third aka it meant nothing and i decided to bowl two handed for the series. Every one was a amazed by the style to the revs to the pin action

[Aslan]

and the rise of 2hand. Ballen.

I think "rise" is debateable. It's a gimic that has gotten new, young bowlers interested in bowling, which has been on the decline since the late 70s...but there are only two 2-handed PBA Tour bowlers of any significance and their fancy approach hasn't turned the overall tide in bowling....it's still on the decline.

You're far too young to understand, not a shot....just a fact, but when bowling was literally 2nd to baseball in terms of American past-time...THAT is when bowling was on the RISE. Pro bowlers made more money than any other pro athletes (which sounds SO ABSURD nowadays). EVERYONE bowled. Your dad, your cousins, your brothers, your grandpa, your great-grandpa...EVERYONE bowled.

So...have fun trying to "BE BELMO"...a LOT of youngsters are. Hell...after my disaster of a performance last night...even I thought of going no-thumb or 2-handed. But I'll quit the sport before doing that. You enjoy watching Belmo and his spandex sleeves...acting a fool, popping water bottles while his opponent bowls...and just being overall classless...hey man, different strokes for different folks. But I'll always be the guy that gets my kicks out of watching the 3-7 old timers bowling in a scratch league....with their classic approach, their ettiquette, their class, their respect for the game, and these are guys that bowled a 300 back when that was very rare. These guys bowled when bowling was "it".

Bowling hasn't "risen"...it's "fallen". Still lots of registered players. Still an affordable family fun type of activity. But like our little "Michigan discussion"...facts are facts. Stats are stats. Less bowling alleys exist nowadays...less leagues exist. It's more white collar coporate entertainmen versus when it was the sport of choice for blue collar folks. The demographics are the demographics and are well publicized. I mean, "Bowlmor" bought AMF. AMF! Thats like a strip club owner from New York buying an old irish pub in rural Wisconsin.

[vdubtx]

Cool. Nothing wrong with it in my mind.

Think it is impressive when someone can hit the same shot everytime no matter if 1 hand, 2 hand, behind the back, whatever. Utmost respect to those that can take a different but still legal approach to the game and perform at a high level.

In my Tuesday league, a young kid 18 years old is a 2 hand bowler and is incredible. Couple weeks ago he shot a whopping 876. 300-277-299. 3 honor awards in one series!! :cool:

[Bunny]

If you can have both shots to choose from I think that's good. Two hands for your strike shot, one hand for spares.

It reminds me of playing tennis. When I first started I used a two-handed back hand. I have a rock solid two-handed backhand. I'm talking blistering, you better not fluff a serve to me 'cause you will pay shot. Or you better not hit it hard to my wheelhouse 'cause it'll come back even harder.

But, I realized if I wanted to get better, especially at net, I would need to develop a one-handed back hand. So I did! Now I have a sweet one-hander too!! Slice and dice Baby!!


Mmm? Now I want to at least try a two-handed bowling shot!!

[Zaxmazr]

I think "rise" is debateable. It's a gimic that has gotten new, young bowlers interested in bowling, which has been on the decline since the late 70s...but there are only two 2-handed PBA Tour bowlers of any significance and their fancy approach hasn't turned the overall tide in bowling....it's still on the decline.

I think this is completely false. I have seen a TON of 2-handed bowlers pop up in the last few years. Just because YOU or TV has not seen them, doesn't mean that it's not a boomin.
Again, this is my opinion, and that is yours.

Don't need to get your pink panties in a bundle now.

[Zaxmazr]

Cool. Nothing wrong with it in my mind.

Think it is impressive when someone can hit the same shot everytime no matter if 1 hand, 2 hand, behind the back, whatever. Utmost respect to those that can take a different but still legal approach to the game and perform at a high level.

In my Tuesday league, a young kid 18 years old is a 2 hand bowler and is incredible. Couple weeks ago he shot a whopping 876. 300-277-299. 3 honor awards in one series!! :cool:

WOW! What a great series! And only 18!

[Terrier]

Good luck, Z. I used to bowl two-handed before I even knew it was a style and switched to a traditional throw once I started buying new gear. Anyone who has tried both ways wouldn't care to criticize either style if you can get it to work. It's not like you have to sell your children for medical experiments every time you switch to a new style.

[Zaxmazr]

Good luck, Z. I used to bowl two-handed before I even knew it was a style and switched to a traditional throw once I started buying new gear. Anyone who has tried both ways wouldn't care to criticize either style if you can get it to work. It's not like you have to sell your children for medical experiments every time you switch to a new style.

LOL. I know, it still kills me that it's 2013 and some people still look down upon people with a different bowling style. 'Na mean?

And Thanks, I'll be keeping you guys updated with scores and stuff!

[hudman]

My 13 year old son started bowling a month ago. He is a travel baseball player. He plays 9.5 months of baseball per year. Due to his baseball training he naturally wants to to keep his hands together (pulling glove hand with baseball towards the throwing hand) and point his left shoulder at the pins at delivery - this puts two hands on the ball. I've been working with him to pull the left hand away during the approach. It's been very difficult. After watching the video clip above, I wonder if it would be better to allow him to bowl with 2 hands seeing that it comes natural to him.

[Aslan]

I think this is completely false. I have seen a TON of 2-handed bowlers pop up in the last few years. Just because YOU or TV has not seen them, doesn't mean that it's not a boomin.
Again, this is my opinion, and that is yours.

Don't need to get your pink panties in a bundle now.

There may be more youngsters interested in throwing 2-handed...I'd agree with that. So hey, with kids I know it's important to be part of the "in crowd"...bowl 2-handed...its awesome. Get em to turn the lights out and use a glow in the dark 6lb ball....thats cool with youngsters nowadays too. Michigan is the greatest place in the world to live and 2-handed bowlers are the coolest and causeing bowling to resurge in popularity to the pre-1980s levels. Don't let stats get in the way of a good hypothesis!

[J Anderson]

Pro bowlers made more money than any other pro athletes (which sounds SO ABSURD nowadays).

I mean, "Bowlmor" bought AMF. AMF! Thats like a strip club owner from New York buying an old irish pub in rural Wisconsin.

I think I'm considerably older than you are. I remember watching the PBA on Saturday afternoons, when Billy Welu was doing the color commentary. I always thought it was completely unfair that the bowlers would be competing for top prize that would be about half of what the pro golfers had a chance of winning.

AMF! Yes , this is the same wonderful company that, when it owned Harley Davidson, produced motorcycles that had parts falling off of them as the new owners rode out of the dealer's lot. The AMF alleys in my area were already leaning toward the way Bowlmor is running things. I think Bowlmor will just kill them off faster.

[noeymc]

do what ever it is thats fun for you bowling is for fun 99.9% of us will never go pro just sayin

[DrOcktagon]

There may be more youngsters interested in throwing 2-handed...I'd agree with that. So hey, with kids I know it's important to be part of the "in crowd"...bowl 2-handed...its awesome. Get em to turn the lights out and use a glow in the dark 6lb ball....thats cool with youngsters nowadays too. Michigan is the greatest place in the world to live and 2-handed bowlers are the coolest and causeing bowling to resurge in popularity to the pre-1980s levels. Don't let stats get in the way of a good hypothesis!

I don't think anybody was implying that bowling is on some meteoric rise to "pre-1980's levels", but if you love the sport of bowling you should be happy about anything that might potentially get more people - particularly young people - interested.

More speed + more revolutions + a bigger hook + strikes with lots of pin action = more exciting and interesting to watch. Without a doubt Belmo and Osku are currently my two favorite bowlers to watch, and I watch a lot of bowling. Between the telecasts, XtraFrame, P-League, etc., I watch hours of bowling a week. When I was a kid I had 7 or 8 8-hour VHS tapes filled with bowling telecasts that I would watch over and over. My point is I'm not some casual fan, but I'm also not some 'purist' who pines for the 'good ole days when bowling was bowling'. Gimme a break.

I've been bowling for 30+ years, I bowl one-handed, always have and always will, but you better believe that if I had the athleticism necessary to throw a two-handed delivery I would absolutely try it out, at the very least. As it stands now, if I tried to throw two-handed I would probably break or tear something.

I have a 6-month-old son who I really hope develops a love for bowling similar to my own. But if he sees Belmo and Osku on TV and decides he wants to throw like them, I will definitely encourage him to do so.

Whenever I hear people complain about stuff like this I can't help but think they're a little jealous that they can't do it themselves.

[Aslan]

I think I'm considerably older than you are. I remember watching the PBA on Saturday afternoons, when Billy Welu was doing the color commentary. I always thought it was completely unfair that the bowlers would be competing for top prize that would be about half of what the pro golfers had a chance of winning.

Not to pick hairs...but you may be mistaken (See below):

The popularity of the sport in America was perhaps no more evident than when Don Carter became the first athlete of any kind to sign a US$1 million endorsement contract, inking a multi-year deal with Ebonite International in 1964. By comparison, Arnold Palmer earned just $5,000 in 1961 endorsing Wilson golf equipment, and NFL quarterback Joe Namath made just $10,000 in 1968 to famously shave off his moustache with a Schick razor.

[Aslan]

I don't think anybody was implying that bowling is on some meteoric rise to "pre-1980's levels", but if you love the sport of bowling you should be happy about anything that might potentially get more people - particularly young people - interested.

Zaxmazr implied that 2-handed bowlers were on the rise as if it was some great wave of new bowling enthusiasm. I haven't seen ONE 2-handed bowler in person or in leagues. I bowl 3-4 times a week. Now...I see plenty of young idiots "trying" to bowl 2-handed because it's easier and they don't really care. But I don't see it as much of a trend.

And I disagree with your premise...that if we can get more people interested...NO MATTER WHAT THE COST....that it's good for the sport. I already made a real...real comparison to paintball. I heard the same EXACT logic for why flashy, 32ball per second and automatic fire paintball markers were good because they would attract younger players to the sport. And they pretty much killed it. And I don't agree with Bowlmor or any of this new wave nonsense (like 2-handed bowling) that the only way to save bowling is to change it. It wasn't broken. It lost popularity...that happens. You wanna fix it? Find a way to bring back the blue collar leagues...get kids bowling early...teach them the REAL fundamentals...not 2-handed gimics.

But Bowlmor thinks if you make a bowling alley less about bowling and more about black lights and HD TVs that it'll "save bowling". And Zaxmazr seems to think if we encouraged 2-handed, over-handed, between the legs, over the shoulder, etc... styles that maybe that would save bowling. Now we celebrate guys like Belmo and Rash and Pete Weber...who have had very classless displays on the tour...because "they're cool". They're more exciting than Parker Bohn, or Earl Anthony or Walter Ray. But if you watch so much bowling...you probably saw Belmo lose the first major of 2013 TO Parker Bohn.

And while I don't LIKE Belmo...I don't think his antics are entertaining...I DO respect his talent. Not his 2-handed approach...but his ability to take an approach that is inherently hard to throw consistently...and adapt to lane conditions the way he does. Very few 2-handed bowlers can be as consistent as he can...because minute changes in lane conditions can drastically alter high hook approaches. Thats why you see 2-handed bowlers bowl 289 then 106 then 126 then 212 then 246. Because if they miss...it's REAL hard to pick up spares. You miss that break point...you leave some weird looking spares to pick up. But...the plus side of that approach is...if you hit that pocket...at least 9 pins are goin down.

And finally...whatever...you like it...etank likes it...Zazmazr likes it...13 year olds love it. To each their own. But if you have the right to "like" it...don't I have the right to "not" like it? Why do HAVE to like it?? Why isn't it okay to say I don't like it? It's a preference. It's not a fad...it's here to stay. Too many young bowlers are emulating Belmo...so as long as 1-4 of them makes it...and that Wesley kid in California WILL be a pro bowler eventually...and probably the best 2-handed bowler ever...so it's not going away. But that doesn't mean I have to accept it. Just like I don't have to go to a bowling alley that doesn't support leagues. It's my preference and my choice.

[DrOcktagon]

Zaxmazr implied that 2-handed bowlers were on the rise as if it was some great wave of new bowling enthusiasm. I haven't seen ONE 2-handed bowler in person or in leagues. I bowl 3-4 times a week. Now...I see plenty of young idiots "trying" to bowl 2-handed because it's easier and they don't really care. But I don't see it as much of a trend.

And I disagree with your premise...that if we can get more people interested...NO MATTER WHAT THE COST....that it's good for the sport. I already made a real...real comparison to paintball. I heard the same EXACT logic for why flashy, 32ball per second and automatic fire paintball markers were good because they would attract younger players to the sport. And they pretty much killed it. And I don't agree with Bowlmor or any of this new wave nonsense (like 2-handed bowling) that the only way to save bowling is to change it. It wasn't broken. It lost popularity...that happens. You wanna fix it? Find a way to bring back the blue collar leagues...get kids bowling early...teach them the REAL fundamentals...not 2-handed gimics.

But Bowlmor thinks if you make a bowling alley less about bowling and more about black lights and HD TVs that it'll "save bowling". And Zaxmazr seems to think if we encouraged 2-handed, over-handed, between the legs, over the shoulder, etc... styles that maybe that would save bowling. Now we celebrate guys like Belmo and Rash and Pete Weber...who have had very classless displays on the tour...because "they're cool". They're more exciting than Parker Bohn, or Earl Anthony or Walter Ray. But if you watch so much bowling...you probably saw Belmo lose the first major of 2013 TO Parker Bohn.

And while I don't LIKE Belmo...I don't think his antics are entertaining...I DO respect his talent. Not his 2-handed approach...but his ability to take an approach that is inherently hard to throw consistently...and adapt to lane conditions the way he does. Very few 2-handed bowlers can be as consistent as he can...because minute changes in lane conditions can drastically alter high hook approaches. Thats why you see 2-handed bowlers bowl 289 then 106 then 126 then 212 then 246. Because if they miss...it's REAL hard to pick up spares. You miss that break point...you leave some weird looking spares to pick up. But...the plus side of that approach is...if you hit that pocket...at least 9 pins are goin down.

And finally...whatever...you like it...etank likes it...Zazmazr likes it...13 year olds love it. To each their own. But if you have the right to "like" it...don't I have the right to "not" like it? Why do HAVE to like it?? Why isn't it okay to say I don't like it? It's a preference. It's not a fad...it's here to stay. Too many young bowlers are emulating Belmo...so as long as 1-4 of them makes it...and that Wesley kid in California WILL be a pro bowler eventually...and probably the best 2-handed bowler ever...so it's not going away. But that doesn't mean I have to accept it. Just like I don't have to go to a bowling alley that doesn't support leagues. It's my preference and my choice.

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, and I never said that you have to like two-handed bowling, but I do think you should accept it as a legitimate style, which it sounds like you may have. Believe me when I say that I would love nothing more than to see bowling return to glory. But I don't think, in any way, that two-handers are somehow stopping that from happening or, worse yet, making the sport worse.

Like I said, I'm a long-time bowling fan. Guys like Bohn, Duke, WRW, Goebel, Aulby, et al, are personal idols of mine. I grew up watching those guys and they are legends for a reason. But I would bet large sums of money(if I had any) that in 20 years people will be talking about Belmo being an idol and a hero and a legend. By the way, Parker Bohn is still one of my favorites to watch. Personally, however, I am fascinated by the two-handed approach. I love watching it.

And we definitely disagree about "class". I find Belmo to be very classy and I think he is a great ambassador for the sport.

And for the record, I can't stand blacklight bowling. That is something I consider to be very bad for the sport and I wish it would go away. Blacklight bowling only gets people interested in bowling in such a stupidly superfluous way. For me, a big part of bowling is actually watching the ball go down the lane. I need the lights on. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going away any time soon.

[Aslan]

And for the record, I can't stand blacklight bowling. That is something I consider to be very bad for the sport and I wish it would go away. Blacklight bowling only gets people interested in bowling in such a stupidly superfluous way. For me, a big part of bowling is actually watching the ball go down the lane. I need the lights on. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going away any time soon.

Agreed on all points.

I guess my only real disagreement is that Belmo is classy. His Sean Rash nonsense was like watching two 6th graders at an assembly.

[DLP]

Really, why does it matter THAT much?

LIke was stated in the attached video, the physical toll that two handed bowling takes is enormous. Bowling taxes the body already. At some point there will be two-handed bowlers that if they WANT to continue bowling, will have to modify their approach and release. An in some cases they will have to go back to traditional, because of torqued back, a crappy knee, and blown out shoulder....

But just like any sport that has someone who returns after and injury and has to change their style in order to perceiver, I really doubt an "I told you so" is going to matter much.

They (the two-handers) do what they do because it's what they want to do, they are comfortable with it, and happy with the results. Plain and simple.

[e-tank]

just got around to watching the video. Pretty crazy how the entire bolivian team converted and their averages sky rocketed

I am most definitely seeing more and more two handers when i bowl so id say its catching on

[J Anderson]

Not to pick hairs...but you may be mistaken (See below):

The popularity of the sport in America was perhaps no more evident than when Don Carter became the first athlete of any kind to sign a US$1 million endorsement contract, inking a multi-year deal with Ebonite International in 1964. By comparison, Arnold Palmer earned just $5,000 in 1961 endorsing Wilson golf equipment, and NFL quarterback Joe Namath made just $10,000 in 1968 to famously shave off his moustache with a Schick razor.

You're talking about advertizing endorsements, not the money earned directly from bowling.

[Aslan]

You're talking about advertizing endorsements, not the money earned directly from bowling.

Most sports both back then and today, that holds true that the money is in the endorsements.

[Zaxmazr]

Zaxmazr implied that 2-handed bowlers were on the rise as if it was some great wave of new bowling enthusiasm. I haven't seen ONE 2-handed bowler in person or in leagues. I bowl 3-4 times a week. Now...I see plenty of young idiots "trying" to bowl 2-handed because it's easier and they don't really care. But I don't see it as much of a trend.

And I disagree with your premise...that if we can get more people interested...NO MATTER WHAT THE COST....that it's good for the sport. I already made a real...real comparison to paintball. I heard the same EXACT logic for why flashy, 32ball per second and automatic fire paintball markers were good because they would attract younger players to the sport. And they pretty much killed it. And I don't agree with Bowlmor or any of this new wave nonsense (like 2-handed bowling) that the only way to save bowling is to change it. It wasn't broken. It lost popularity...that happens. You wanna fix it? Find a way to bring back the blue collar leagues...get kids bowling early...teach them the REAL fundamentals...not 2-handed gimics.

But Bowlmor thinks if you make a bowling alley less about bowling and more about black lights and HD TVs that it'll "save bowling". And Zaxmazr seems to think if we encouraged 2-handed, over-handed, between the legs, over the shoulder, etc... styles that maybe that would save bowling. Now we celebrate guys like Belmo and Rash and Pete Weber...who have had very classless displays on the tour...because "they're cool". They're more exciting than Parker Bohn, or Earl Anthony or Walter Ray. But if you watch so much bowling...you probably saw Belmo lose the first major of 2013 TO Parker Bohn.

And while I don't LIKE Belmo...I don't think his antics are entertaining...I DO respect his talent. Not his 2-handed approach...but his ability to take an approach that is inherently hard to throw consistently...and adapt to lane conditions the way he does. Very few 2-handed bowlers can be as consistent as he can...because minute changes in lane conditions can drastically alter high hook approaches. Thats why you see 2-handed bowlers bowl 289 then 106 then 126 then 212 then 246. Because if they miss...it's REAL hard to pick up spares. You miss that break point...you leave some weird looking spares to pick up. But...the plus side of that approach is...if you hit that pocket...at least 9 pins are goin down.

And finally...whatever...you like it...etank likes it...Zazmazr likes it...13 year olds love it. To each their own. But if you have the right to "like" it...don't I have the right to "not" like it? Why do HAVE to like it?? Why isn't it okay to say I don't like it? It's a preference. It's not a fad...it's here to stay. Too many young bowlers are emulating Belmo...so as long as 1-4 of them makes it...and that Wesley kid in California WILL be a pro bowler eventually...and probably the best 2-handed bowler ever...so it's not going away. But that doesn't mean I have to accept it. Just like I don't have to go to a bowling alley that doesn't support leagues. It's my preference and my choice.

What are you talking about? I never said anything about bowling dying or trying to be saved...or that you "have to like it"
All I was saying is that I'm switching to it because I'm more CONSISTENT with it.

Guess what? I can bowl regular too, NO PROBLEM.
Stop comparing my game to "younger" people. You know what? I know many people who bowl just like you do in Saturday morning leagues. So there.

I'm just talking about another style. No need to bash how I play my game and my style.

I respect your opinion, because that's all it is. But please don't hijack a thread just to make your opinion rise above everyone elses.
And for the record, I have never been glow bowling. But you know what? I know people who have been and they're having fun.

[Zaxmazr]

Agreed on all points.

I guess my only real disagreement is that Belmo is classy. His Sean Rash nonsense was like watching two 6th graders at an assembly.

Okay as I stated in my last comment, I have never went glow bowling.
BUT WHO CARES?

Bowling is all about having fun.

IT ISN'T PROFESSIONAL PLAY 100% OF THE TIME.
Is beer league softball bad for... softball?

I can just see you now walking into a bowling alley, seeing a birthday party of kids having fun.
And you get a lane next to them and are just making comments about how these bowling parties are "bad for the sport."

This is literally how you sound on these public forums. It's quite hilarious.

[Aslan]

I respect your opinion, because that's all it is. But please don't hijack a thread just to make your opinion rise above everyone elses.
And for the record, I have never been glow bowling. But you know what? I know people who have been and they're having fun.

Definition of irony....a kid asks me not to hijack a thread with my opinion after he specifically calls me out in the title of the thread. :confused:

I'm not criticizing your game son...I'm offering my opinion on the style. And you're absolutely right, it's only my opinion...which I am entitled to.

[Zaxmazr]

Definition of irony....a kid asks me not to hijack a thread with my opinion after he specifically calls me out in the title of the thread. :confused:

I'm not criticizing your game son...I'm offering my opinion on the style. And you're absolutely right, it's only my opinion...which I am entitled to.

I just said in the title sorry because I knew you were going to reply with a strong-sided opinion anyways..

[Aslan]

Okay as I stated in my last comment, I have never went glow bowling.
BUT WHO CARES?

Bowling is all about having fun.

IT ISN'T PROFESSIONAL PLAY 100% OF THE TIME.
Is beer league softball bad for... softball?

I can just see you now walking into a bowling alley, seeing a birthday party of kids having fun.
And you get a lane next to them and are just making comments about how these bowling parties are "bad for the sport."

This is literally how you sound on these public forums. It's quite hilarious.

Okay Zax...I was thinking of what you said and I have a question for you specifically, but also for everyone else on the site (because I don't want a me vs. you thing here). Simple question. If during the next PBA event, Belmo and Sean Rash got into a fist fight on national television....would that be a "good" thing? Or a "bad" thing?

It's what I like to call the "Happy Gilmore" debate...a movie I know you're familiar with. And it's something that has been discussed in hockey since I first started playing hockey back in the early 90s. If you have a dynamic young guy, who is bringing new people into the sport...and he does something (like a fist fight) that brings in record ratings and creates a stir of conversation about bowling...is it "okay"? Does the lack of class and the damage to the sport in general compare to the increase in young players and the increase in attention for the sport?

I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer...I mean, I'm asking a question...not preaching. If Belmonte whistled when Sean was in his backswing...and Sean lost it and punched him and they wrestled around for 45 seconds until officials broke it up....would it be okay IF...it led to more interest in the sport?? Because thats what I think is at the core of our little debate here. I'm trying to keep the game true to it's roots (as much as possible) but recognizing that the game has died over the years. You're talking about loosening up the game, changing styles, making it more FUN...but perhaps in ways that maybe old timers like me don't appreciate.

No right or wrong answer...but please don't respond with "I neversaid X, I'm just talking about fun, etc..." I'm asking an honest question for a more youthful perspective (your's). You embrace a newer style and a more controversial bowler and are advocating fun over tradition...so I just wonder how you'd feel if Belmonte and Rash just slugged it out. It happens in Hockey and is celebrated. It's happened in Nascar...basketball....football....soccer. But outside of hockey, it's usually treated as "bad".

Thanks.

[Aslan]

I just said in the title sorry because I knew you were going to reply with a strong-sided opinion anyways..

I'm not upset (I rarely if ever get upset)...I'm just saying it's "bad form" to call someone out in a title (most sites won't even allow it). And it's even worse form to call someone out in a title and then criticize them for "hijacking" the thread. You knew I had an opinion on the topic and specifically asked for it. If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

[circlecity]

I see a couple kids in my daughter's junior league trying the 2-hand style but they don't really have much control of it yet.

[Zaxmazr]

Okay Zax...I was thinking of what you said and I have a question for you specifically, but also for everyone else on the site (because I don't want a me vs. you thing here). Simple question. If during the next PBA event, Belmo and Sean Rash got into a fist fight on national television....would that be a "good" thing? Or a "bad" thing?

It's what I like to call the "Happy Gilmore" debate...a movie I know you're familiar with. And it's something that has been discussed in hockey since I first started playing hockey back in the early 90s. If you have a dynamic young guy, who is bringing new people into the sport...and he does something (like a fist fight) that brings in record ratings and creates a stir of conversation about bowling...is it "okay"? Does the lack of class and the damage to the sport in general compare to the increase in young players and the increase in attention for the sport?

I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer...I mean, I'm asking a question...not preaching. If Belmonte whistled when Sean was in his backswing...and Sean lost it and punched him and they wrestled around for 45 seconds until officials broke it up....would it be okay IF...it led to more interest in the sport?? Because thats what I think is at the core of our little debate here. I'm trying to keep the game true to it's roots (as much as possible) but recognizing that the game has died over the years. You're talking about loosening up the game, changing styles, making it more FUN...but perhaps in ways that maybe old timers like me don't appreciate.

No right or wrong answer...but please don't respond with "I neversaid X, I'm just talking about fun, etc..." I'm asking an honest question for a more youthful perspective (your's). You embrace a newer style and a more controversial bowler and are advocating fun over tradition...so I just wonder how you'd feel if Belmonte and Rash just slugged it out. It happens in Hockey and is celebrated. It's happened in Nascar...basketball....football....soccer. But outside of hockey, it's usually treated as "bad".

Thanks.

Obviously the answer is that it wouldn't be a good thing. You could say the same thing about other sports like bowling.
But I could guarantee it would make ESPN's news and shoot bowling's ratings up.

I just don't see your point with this question. Belmo and Rash would never fight on TV like you think they would.

[Terrier]

It doesn't matter what we think about certain people in professional bowling. They are there for only one reason -- they can bowl. Whether anyone thinks they are "good for bowling" is pretty irrelevant. You're allowed not to like some people, but it's ludicrous to insist they conform to your ideals of what a bowler should be doing to bring bowling back to its heyday. I'm pretty sure they're not operating on that premise, anyway.

How any of this relates to one bowler's personal form is lost on me.


I just said in the title sorry because I knew you were going to reply with a strong-sided opinion anyways..That's a self-fulfilling prophecy, if I've ever heard one. :)

[Aslan]

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy, if I've ever heard one. :)

Ya think? If I start a thread entitled "Houston sux...sorry Terrier"....I'd say there's about a 99.999% chance Terrier is going to respond. Actually...I could start ANY topic and it'd still hold true; "Marshmellows are hot!! Sorry Terrier!" I mean, you specifically call someone out in the title and then try to accuse them of hijacking the thread??? I don't know...maybe NOT mentioning them in the title would be a better strategy. I'd have still replied...but the hijacking complaint would have made more sense. :rolleyes:

[classygranny]

Okay Zax...I was thinking of what you said and I have a question for you specifically, but also for everyone else on the site (because I don't want a me vs. you thing here). Simple question. If during the next PBA event, Belmo and Sean Rash got into a fist fight on national television....would that be a "good" thing? Or a "bad" thing?


This would actually be a "bad" thing. Yes, in my humble opinion. PBA bowling would lose two great bowlers from the sport. Unlike some of the other professional sports that tend to "promote" fighting (hockey), the PBA has conduct rules - at ALL times when bowling. Also, no matter how badly Sean would want to fight with Belmo, they wouldn't risk the damage to their career.

Would a fight on TV between two bowlers lead to more interest in the sport? Probably not. For the most part, bowlers that know the game and are passionate about it, would look at the fight as detrimental to the sport. People that aren't bowlers aren't going to run out and join a bowling league just because they saw two bowlers fighting on TV.

Actually, Belmo and Osku have probably generated more "activity" and "viewing" of the sport, because people want to see different. I remember when Marshall Holman drew all the crowds because of his "passionate" antics, and the list goes on and on. If every bowler was a Chris Barnes (and don't take this wrong - I love watching Chris) people that are barely interested in the sport would quit watching as they wouldn't understand the intricacies that make him as good as he is.

[noeymc]

well said granny

[bowlerRob2]

I am too old for 2 handed; I tried it once and nearly threw my old back out. One thing that isn't discussed much is the extra strain and stress that the 2 handed style puts on the hip and lower back. I wonder how that will pan out for Belmo and Osku when they hit their 40's? I would not be surprised to see hip replacements there and see them drop out of the sport early. Not to go on 'forever' like the ever-ready bunny PDW.