Righty cant stop crossing body with release armswing!

[scruffwhor]

hey guys and gals,

I'm a righty

here's a brief overview of my bowling experience:

From ages 8 - 16 I was bowling in a Saturday morning league. I bowled for the first time in March of 2013 with my wife's godson since my childhood league experience. This awakened my love of bowling. I bought some balls, shoes, and other equipment for a Summer sport shot league and right now a THS league at Stardust bowl in Addison, IL.

I've had a session with a coach and asked a teammate of mine to critique my mechanics. My biggest problem is I miss my spot to the left by 1 to 7 boards and, surprise surprise, my follow through or swing either hits the center of my head or completely crosses my head. This is the most consistent problem with my game.

I have 5 strike balls and 1 spare ball. I know how they all react, were to through them, how fast to throw them, which hand grip to use depending on ball reaction/lane condition. I'm also adept at moving left depending on lane condition and which ball I'm using.

It's just that damn crossover from my release that's just killing my accuracy.

I will upload a video of my style within a week hopefully, but if you guys and gals could offer me some initial tips and pointers, it would be greatly appreciated.

[noeymc]

the video will be the best way for us to help you if your going left that tends to go along with muscling the ball forcing it down in your back swing but like i said ill be able to help more once i see the video

[classygranny]

Missing left can be caused by many things. You will have to work at determining which one may be the culprit. Some of the more common causes would include raising up a bit at the line, thus pulling the ball inside your mark. Also, moving your eyes off your target mark. Stay down at the line (post your shot) and watch the ball go over your target - preferably without blinking from the time you set on the approach.

Your arm swing could be going out away from your body in the back swing. Keep your elbow area in close to your body on both the downswing and again coming forward.

Of course, it could be timing, but you will have to determine if you feel that is the cause - without eyes or video, this would be difficult.

Try some of the above. Also, in your follow through, maybe think of sticking your thumb in your ear...that keeps the ball swing underneath your eye.

Also, do you drop your shoulder in your stance so that your right toe, ball, and eye, are all in alignment. Check out the DYDS article by Joe Slowinski. it explains this quite well. You can find it almost anywhere on the net, and probably somewhere on this site. Some of the "old style" approaches/methods just don't work in today's bowling environment. Be careful when reading or accepting advice that it is based on todays game not years ago. It can be hard to let go of some of those "old" habits. I know that from experience.

Good luck and best of bowling to you.

[bowl1820]

You had a coaching session, what did the coach advise you about the problem?

Till we see your video this is just a guess.

But the most common cause is that your holding the ball in front of your body or pushing it in front of you in your push away.

This will cause the ball to be away from your body in the back swing , then in the down swing the ball will travel back toward your body. This will cause you to miss toward the inside of the lane.
Example:
http://s5.postimg.org/9x7udndxj/swingout.jpg
Hold the ball more in line with your shoulder with your elbow more against your body.

Example:
http://s5.postimg.org/yhtgz8fur/swing15.jpg

[bowl1820]

Also, in your follow through, maybe think of sticking your thumb in your ear...that keeps the ball swing underneath your eye.

That's the old grab your ear advice (also the pat yourself on the back advice), you really shouldn't do it. It can promote bending the arm too much.

Think more of it as trying to reach out and "grab your target"

[striker12]

well i use to have that same probly but i still do but not as much it could be that you are roation your shoulder forward at the release witch will make your arm go left more so one main thing i was told was to work on not moving my shoulder at all threw the swing just until i got use to my shoulder not going past the one spot because in my backswing my shoulder comes back but now it dose not come forward as much but my body dose turn abit witch i need to fix.


but as people have said a video will help out alot so we can see the exactly what is happening because what you are saying is what i use to do but with out a video it could be completely different

[Mike White]

You had a coaching session, what did the coach advise you about the problem?

Till we see your video this is just a guess.

But the most common cause is that your holding the ball in front of your body or pushing it in front of you in your push away.

This will cause the ball to be away from your body in the back swing , then in the down swing the ball will travel back toward your body. This will cause you to miss toward the inside of the lane.
Example:
http://s5.postimg.org/9x7udndxj/swingout.jpg
Hold the ball more in line with your shoulder with your elbow more against your body.


The graphic of 12 to 4 helps identify the problem...

Do you happen to have a graphic of 1 to 5 to illustrate the solution?

[bowl1820]

The graphic of 12 to 4 helps identify the problem...

Do you happen to have a graphic of 1 to 5 to illustrate the solution?

I was going to include one, but I didn't happen to find one. It took me a little bit to get around to making one. It's added in above.
http://s5.postimg.org/yhtgz8fur/swing15.jpg

[noeymc]

as u can see a lot of different reason as to why =D

[e-tank]

Missing left can be caused by many things. You will have to work at determining which one may be the culprit. Some of the more common causes would include raising up a bit at the line, thus pulling the ball inside your mark. Also, moving your eyes off your target mark. Stay down at the line (post your shot) and watch the ball go over your target - preferably without blinking from the time you set on the approach.

Your arm swing could be going out away from your body in the back swing. Keep your elbow area in close to your body on both the downswing and again coming forward.

Of course, it could be timing, but you will have to determine if you feel that is the cause - without eyes or video, this would be difficult.

Try some of the above. Also, in your follow through, maybe think of sticking your thumb in your ear...that keeps the ball swing underneath your eye.

Also, do you drop your shoulder in your stance so that your right toe, ball, and eye, are all in alignment. Check out the DYDS article by Joe Slowinski. it explains this quite well. You can find it almost anywhere on the net, and probably somewhere on this site. Some of the "old style" approaches/methods just don't work in today's bowling environment. Be careful when reading or accepting advice that it is based on todays game not years ago. It can be hard to let go of some of those "old" habits. I know that from experience.

Good luck and best of bowling to you.

Ive been having problems similar to scruffwhor so ill give these a try

Thanks classygranny :)

[scruffwhor]

You had a coaching session, what did the coach advise you about the problem?

Till we see your video this is just a guess.

But the most common cause is that your holding the ball in front of your body or pushing it in front of you in your push away.

This will cause the ball to be away from your body in the back swing , then in the down swing the ball will travel back toward your body. This will cause you to miss toward the inside of the lane.
Example:
http://s5.postimg.org/9x7udndxj/swingout.jpg
Hold the ball more in line with your shoulder with your elbow more against your body.

Example:
http://s5.postimg.org/yhtgz8fur/swing15.jpg



I used to hold the ball more towards the middle of my body when I first got back into bowling. Then I read From Gutterballs to Strikes: Correcting 101 Common
Bowling Errors by Mike Durbin and Dan Herbst.

I quickly made sure that I was holding the ball lined up with my shoulder.

[scruffwhor]

That's the old grab your ear advice (also the pat yourself on the back advice), you really shouldn't do it. It can promote bending the arm too much.

Think more of it as trying to reach out and "grab your target"

My coach told me to try and touch my ear after the release. Maybe I'll toy around with your suggestion and "grab the target" next time I can get some freaking practice games in.

[noeymc]

when u grab your ear you are really bending your elbow and that may be making u go left as if u grab your mark your arm goes towards your mark =D

[classygranny]

The idea is really to do both...reach for the target, but don't stop there as you might start short-arming the ball. Continue the follow thru with the arm and the ear part only makes you think of keeping the arm straight. If you come up and hit your ear (I've even seen the thumb past the ear) it needs to be well after you have reached for the target and the arm just continues through the follow through swing. Doesn't work for everyone...but then not everything does. It's usually trial and error on what works for yourself.

[bowl1820]

from Ron Clifton:

Pulling the Ball - Part 1

“Pulling” the ball, also known as “tugging” is one of the most common errors in bowling. A pulled ball always goes inside the intended target line. It often produces some nasty splits. In fact, the phrase “pulling the ball” is sometimes a misnomer; the ball actually pulls you.

Since there are so many reasons for pulled shots, I have divided this article into a two part series. Part one deals with cases where you were bowling well and suddenly began pulling the ball. Next month, part two will deal with a chronic case of pulling the ball.

If one day, you are bowling well and then suddenly realize that you are pulling the ball, something has changed. Now, before you accuse me of pointing out the obvious, consider this. If the change were obvious you could fix the problem yourself.

I will tell you right now that the most common example I have found for the “sudden tugs” is early timing. Early timing happens when the ball reaches the release point slightly sooner than normal. It’s the “cause” of the early timing that must be found. The causes of early timing are far from the obvious when they arrive in the middle of a game. You can’t feel the change because it is so subtle. I will go through the most common causes:

Shortened Swing Cycle: “Swing Cycle” is a term that I made up to describe the amount of time it takes your ball to go from first motion (push away) to release. A “Shortened Swing Cycle” is when the ball takes less time to complete the swing. Since the swing cycle is shorter, the ball arrives at the release point too soon…early timing. This shorter amount of time can come from too much or too little muscle as I will explain in the next few topics.

Holding The Ball Back: You are holding the ball back when you don’t allow it to fall freely after the push-away. This is extremely common when a bowler is feeling a lot of pressure to throw a good shot. Sometimes when we are under pressure our armswings tighten up because we want to be very precise and accurate. This makes us want to control the armswing and again shortens the swing cycle and we get…early timing.

Long first step: The length first step sometimes starts growing and that will give you early timing. This is especially true of 5 step bowlers.

Lazy Push Away: When your push away gets lazy, your arm will not go out as far and the ball will take a shortcut to the bottom of the swing. This, in turn, will lower the backswing slightly so the ball can make the whole trip in less time than normal. This shortens the swing cycle so…early timing.

Cutting off the backswing: This occurs when we don’t allow the ball to reach the full height of the backswing. We get in a hurry to throw the ball. This shortens the swing cycle so you get….early timing. Make sure you wait for the ball to reach its full height in the backswing and start down before you add any “juice” of your own.

Bending the Elbow: If you tend to bend your elbow between the top of the backswing and the release, you may be prone to early timing; especially if you throw the ball harder. Sometimes “elbow benders” will bend their elbows just a little more than normal and they literally shorten the length of their arm. If you don’t believe me just measure the length of your arm using a yard stick and then bend at the elbow and measure again. The more you bend your elbow, the shorter the swing cycle, thus…early timing.

Forcing The Ball: If you force the ball more than normal without making any timing adjustments, then you shorten your swing cycle…early timing. This is not a steadfast rule because forcing the ball can make some people actually throw the ball outside their intended target. This gets complicated and involves Newton’s Third Law of Motion. “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.” I am not going to go into physics because that would take up too much space. So, if you are pulling the ball just try not to force it as much and see if it helps.


Those are some of the early timing tugs that few people know about. I will now list a few other reasons for pulling the ball.



The Grip: If the ball starts ever so slightly sticking on your thumb, then you will start to tug it. If you start squeezing the ball more than normal, you will get the same result.

Swing Angle: Your swing angle refers to the type of swing you have and the angle the ball comes off of your hand at the end of the swing. Just about everyone has a different swing and swings are very complicated. I will go into swings more in part two of “Pulling the Ball” but in the mean time, just try pushing the ball away in different directions and see what happens.

Aiming at your target: This may sound crazy, but if you try too hard to hit your target, you will tend to pull the ball inside the target. This is simply because your vision is centered on your body, but your ball is not. For example, if you stand in the middle of the approach and point at the head pin with your index finger, the tip of that finger will be nearly in line with your nose. You’re ball, on the other hand is in line with your shoulder, not your nose. Some people have an eye dominance problem that makes matters worse. For example, a person may be left eye dominant and right handed. This makes a bowler more likely to pull the ball. So look at your target, but don’t aim at it too hard. Just have faith you will hit it.

I hope this information will help you cure the sudden tugs when you get them. Of the 10 things listed, you will most likely only do 2 or 3 of them. Always check these 2 or 3 things first when you get those sudden tugs. They will solve your pulling problem 90% of the time.

[bowl1820]

Pulling the Ball Part 2

In last month’s article I discussed a lot of the reasons bowlers pull the ball inside their intended target. That article was mostly devoted to the “sudden tuggs” where you were bowling well and all of the sudden you start pulling the ball.

The “sudden tuggs” can happen right in the middle of the game and they may not go away for some time. If you missed part one of “Pulling the ball”, it will be on my website.

Part two of pulling the ball is more devoted to the “Chronic Tuggs” This means pulling the ball nearly all the time. Here is a list of possible causes of pulling the ball inside your target.

Swing Path: Your swing path is the over all shape of your swing if viewed from the rear. Most people “think” their swings are straight but very few are. That’s ok though; swings don’t have to be straight to be effective. Some swing shapes tend to be better than others. For example, if your swing bumps out at the top of the backswing, then you are more likely to pull the ball than someone who has a swing that bumps in. If your swing is too far from your leg as it passes, you are a likely candidate to pull the ball. If your swing wraps around behind your back and you tend to release the ball late, then you will pull the shot. As a rule of thumb, a freer swing will tend to be much straighter than a muscled swing.

If your “tuggs” come from the swing path, first try relaxing the arm to get a straighter swing. Then try holding the ball in different positions, left and right. I know that everyone tells you to hold the ball in front of your shoulder and that is a good starting place. However, not everyone has the same body make-up or the same type of swing. Throw some shots with the ball directly in front of your shoulder and note if the ball hits your target. Then move the ball a few inches toward the inside of your body and bowl again. Most likely this will cause the ball to travel a different path. After that, try holding the ball outside the shoulder a few inches and check the result. Chances are one of these is best and may cure pulling the ball.

The next thing to try in relation to your swing path is pushing the ball away in different directions. Push one shot toward the 10 pin and one shot toward the 7 pin and check the results. In your mind’s eye you will think you are pushing the ball way left or right, but in reality, you will only change your pushaway direction an inch or two. The reason you have to try both directions is because everyone is different so everyone will get different results.

Not stepping in: You must step in as you go into your slide in order to get your slide foot under your center of gravity. Most people will fall to one side if they fail to step in as they go into their slide giving them a good clue they are not getting under their center of gravity. A few people, though, do not step in, but somehow bring the rest of their body over to the slide foot and become very stable at the line. This is much harder to detect because you don’t fall over as you deliver the ball. This can cause you to pull the ball because you are stepping away from your swing at the last second and the ball will try to follow you.

Not clearing the thumb: Not clearing the thumb means you stay in the thumb hole past your ankle. This could be caused by something as simple as a sticking thumb hole or squeezing the ball causing a late release. The longer you stay in the ball the more likely it will pull you to the inside causing a “tugged shot”.

Early timing: Early timing is one of the most common reasons for pulling the ball. Some of the reasons for early timing were discussed in Part 1 of “Pulling the ball” but there are many others. A few more common ones are:

Starting the ball too soon in the pushaway: If you have early timing, you may need to delay the pushaway a little or a lot depending on the length of your arms and your foot work. Here again, everyone is different so you just have to experiment with different pushaway timings to see what works best for you.

First step too long: Many bowlers take a much too long first step which results in early timing often causing pulled shots. I have noticed that first steps tend to grow in length so you have to check it now and then. A good time to check is when you start pulling the ball.

Late Release: If you release the ball late (after it passes the toe of your slide foot) you are much more likely to pull the ball.

Playing too deep for your body alignment: If you tend to only pull the ball when you play a deeper inside line, you simply have a body alignment problem. You just need to face your breakpoint more while going to the line. There is an article on my website that covers this in detail called "Getting Deeper".

I am sure I can think of a lot more reasons for pulled shots but these two articles should keep you busy for a while.

[e-tank]

^ awesome article bowl

after reading it, it would seem like id need to check on timing as i feel itd a little late for example sometimes i get to the line too soon and have to wait for the ball to come down. I think the biggest culprit though is me not opening my shoulder up to my target. Im looking at my target and my foot slides under me but my shoulders are square and thus the ball goes straight instead of all at angle to the dry

[scruffwhor]

Pulling the Ball Part 2

In last month’s article I discussed a lot of the reasons bowlers pull the ball inside their intended target. That article was mostly devoted to the “sudden tuggs” where you were bowling well and all of the sudden you start pulling the ball.

The “sudden tuggs” can happen right in the middle of the game and they may not go away for some time. If you missed part one of “Pulling the ball”, it will be on my website.

Part two of pulling the ball is more devoted to the “Chronic Tuggs” This means pulling the ball nearly all the time. Here is a list of possible causes of pulling the ball inside your target.

Swing Path: Your swing path is the over all shape of your swing if viewed from the rear. Most people “think” their swings are straight but very few are. That’s ok though; swings don’t have to be straight to be effective. Some swing shapes tend to be better than others. For example, if your swing bumps out at the top of the backswing, then you are more likely to pull the ball than someone who has a swing that bumps in. If your swing is too far from your leg as it passes, you are a likely candidate to pull the ball. If your swing wraps around behind your back and you tend to release the ball late, then you will pull the shot. As a rule of thumb, a freer swing will tend to be much straighter than a muscled swing.

If your “tuggs” come from the swing path, first try relaxing the arm to get a straighter swing. Then try holding the ball in different positions, left and right. I know that everyone tells you to hold the ball in front of your shoulder and that is a good starting place. However, not everyone has the same body make-up or the same type of swing. Throw some shots with the ball directly in front of your shoulder and note if the ball hits your target. Then move the ball a few inches toward the inside of your body and bowl again. Most likely this will cause the ball to travel a different path. After that, try holding the ball outside the shoulder a few inches and check the result. Chances are one of these is best and may cure pulling the ball.

The next thing to try in relation to your swing path is pushing the ball away in different directions. Push one shot toward the 10 pin and one shot toward the 7 pin and check the results. In your mind’s eye you will think you are pushing the ball way left or right, but in reality, you will only change your pushaway direction an inch or two. The reason you have to try both directions is because everyone is different so everyone will get different results.

Not stepping in: You must step in as you go into your slide in order to get your slide foot under your center of gravity. Most people will fall to one side if they fail to step in as they go into their slide giving them a good clue they are not getting under their center of gravity. A few people, though, do not step in, but somehow bring the rest of their body over to the slide foot and become very stable at the line. This is much harder to detect because you don’t fall over as you deliver the ball. This can cause you to pull the ball because you are stepping away from your swing at the last second and the ball will try to follow you.

Not clearing the thumb: Not clearing the thumb means you stay in the thumb hole past your ankle. This could be caused by something as simple as a sticking thumb hole or squeezing the ball causing a late release. The longer you stay in the ball the more likely it will pull you to the inside causing a “tugged shot”.

Early timing: Early timing is one of the most common reasons for pulling the ball. Some of the reasons for early timing were discussed in Part 1 of “Pulling the ball” but there are many others. A few more common ones are:

Starting the ball too soon in the pushaway: If you have early timing, you may need to delay the pushaway a little or a lot depending on the length of your arms and your foot work. Here again, everyone is different so you just have to experiment with different pushaway timings to see what works best for you.

First step too long: Many bowlers take a much too long first step which results in early timing often causing pulled shots. I have noticed that first steps tend to grow in length so you have to check it now and then. A good time to check is when you start pulling the ball.

Late Release: If you release the ball late (after it passes the toe of your slide foot) you are much more likely to pull the ball.

Playing too deep for your body alignment: If you tend to only pull the ball when you play a deeper inside line, you simply have a body alignment problem. You just need to face your breakpoint more while going to the line. There is an article on my website that covers this in detail called "Getting Deeper".

I am sure I can think of a lot more reasons for pulled shots but these two articles should keep you busy for a while.



Wow that was awesome and super informative!

My coach told me it seemed like I was stopping my backswing short, or "muscling" my backswing short as she put it. I wasn't muscling the follow through, just the back swing.

Thanks for the article. I also know that practice is very important in correcting my mechanical errors. But life only lets you enjoy bowling so many hours a week sometimes.

[dnhoffman]

As bowl1820 has proven with a lot of these great articles, it could be a lot of things. I'd continue working with a coach.

Most of the time when I have bowlers tugging the ball (I call it shanking) it's because they're timing and/or balance is off. I usually switch them to a 4-step approach and get them to focus on the timing of the ball on the first step to be in sync with the lead foot and make sure the cross step is moving their body around the ball vice swinging the ball around the body.

That, starting position and a free/loose arm swing tend to improve accuracy quite a bit. But again, it's hard to coach through the message boards.

[e-tank]

As bowl1820 has proven with a lot of these great articles, it could be a lot of things. I'd continue working with a coach.

Most of the time when I have bowlers tugging the ball (I call it shanking) it's because they're timing and/or balance is off. I usually switch them to a 4-step approach and get them to focus on the timing of the ball on the first step to be in sync with the lead foot and make sure the cross step is moving their body around the ball vice swinging the ball around the body.

That, starting position and a free/loose arm swing tend to improve accuracy quite a bit. But again, it's hard to coach through the message boards.

would you advise again a mark roth 100 mini step approach? Ive been trying to slow my ball speed so i moved forward on the approach but what has happened is a take a ton of mini steps to the foul line

[scruffwhor]

As bowl1820 has proven with a lot of these great articles, it could be a lot of things. I'd continue working with a coach.

Most of the time when I have bowlers tugging the ball (I call it shanking) it's because they're timing and/or balance is off. I usually switch them to a 4-step approach and get them to focus on the timing of the ball on the first step to be in sync with the lead foot and make sure the cross step is moving their body around the ball vice swinging the ball around the body.

That, starting position and a free/loose arm swing tend to improve accuracy quite a bit. But again, it's hard to coach through the message boards.

I hate to say it, but I think I have a 5 or 6 step approach. I have no problem trying to switch that up to a 4 step if need be, but I know that would require a lot of practice to develop some muscle memory.

I will be getting my last ball ,for awhile, drilled along with my wife's first ball drilled. After that I will set up a time for her to meet my coach. Then I will schedule another session with her for my self.

Regardless of what combinations of mechanical mistakes I might make, I know the biggest key to fixing them once they're diagnosed is PRACTICE! I think I'll start bringing my balls with me to work So I can get in a game or two after work to try and work the kinks out.

[dnhoffman]

Changing steps in your approach is easy and will not require the difficulty you're assuming. Every approach should really be a basic 4 step that has a step added for the 5th

[scruffwhor]

i'm absolutely willing to try and change the number of steps. I just keep assuming that something so fundamental to bowling needs constant training to correct.

[dnhoffman]

would you advise again a mark roth 100 mini step approach? Ive been trying to slow my ball speed so i moved forward on the approach but what has happened is a take a ton of mini steps to the foul line

I work with Jr bowlers that do the mini steps a lot. Sometimes it's really hard to convince your brain of a time/space change that you've spent years drilling into your muscle memory.

I'm a firm believer in keeping it simple myself. Have you tried a basic 4-step with a pacer? If you're doing the mini steps than maybe try some video of you doing the 4-step from further back on the approach. If you're 5 feet away don't worry about it. Just systematically convince your mind and muscle memory that there is enough room. And once you get it keep re-enforcing it until it's natural.

[dnhoffman]

But again for the OP, the 5-step is really no different than the 4-step. You should be able to switch back and forth easily if you're doing it properly.

[dutchlefty]

Thanks. interesting material to read. i know it happens to me from time to time and i never know exactly what it is i'm doing different. At the end it all comes down to relaxing or maybe better said controll over ones relaxing is it not ? and how can you train / practice that..? Muscle memory is one thing and the rest is between the ears..