Confused about a couple of things

[Bowling Wonder]

The past few months, I've been working on staying behind the ball- or rather what I thought was staying behind the ball. Unfortunately, I found out that what I'd been doing is a backup release. I thought that having the palm face the ceiling is a straight release, but apparently not. Another wheelchair bowler on my league told me to think of the thumb as an arrow to your target. Hearing this, it makes sense that this type of release wold produce a backup ball. Unfortunately, this still doesn't clear up for me what a straight release should look like.

Also, I was told (and read on this forum from user GeoLes) that staying behind the ball means that the wrist does not collapse. Previously, I had thought that staying staying behind the ball meant not over-rotating (nothing more than a handshake). This new information seems to indicate that staying behind the ball means keeping the hand on the lower "hemisphere" of the ball On the same note, when I do collapse my wrist with my bowling ball, my hand appears to go on top of the ball- this does seem to fit with the term of "topping" the ball. Which perspective is correct? Do they both have a degree of truth?

In this video, near the end, Randy Pedersen seems to indicate that staying behind the ball has to do with a firm wrist- not avoiding rotation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz5rthELIGo

I should also mention that I'm an extremely visual learner, so I would definitely appreciate pictures to go along with explanations.

Thanks!

[e-tank]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE

[bowl1820]

Fred Borden on the base releases


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGIyYa5egu8

Notice the "Nike" swoosh position of the hand also.

[bowl1820]

What is the "Nike Swoosh" position?

It's how Mo Pinel teaches your hand should be after the release. After you execute the shot, if you were to look at your hand, it should be making the Nike Swoosh with your thumb and index finger.

Mo Pinel:
"It's the proper finish position at the end of the release. There are different releases achieved by varying the starting position, but they all end in the same finish position. It looks like the Nike Swoosh, with the thumb pointing at 11 0'clock and the index finger pointing at 2 o'clock for right handers. It's an extremely valuable tool, especially for bowlers learning to add rotation and tilt to their game. The key is to rotate the ball without dumping the thumb, which would have the thumb finishing closer to 8 or 9 o'clock."

http://s17.postimage.org/7jw611h17/swoosh.jpg
not the best image, but should give you the idea

[noeymc]

bowl u have a video for every question lol

[Bowling Wonder]

So, I was looking at pictures on the forum of peoples' bowling balls, and noticed that their thumb hole is basically directly opposite the bridge. However, the thumb hole on my ball is nearly directly in line with the middle finger hole. Why is my thumb hole positioned this way? Is this bad? I think that this might be causing my confusion.

[bowl1820]

So, I was looking at pictures on the forum of peoples' bowling balls, and noticed that their thumb hole is basically directly opposite the bridge. However, the thumb hole on my ball is nearly directly in line with the middle finger hole. Why is my thumb hole positioned this way? Is this bad? I think that this might be causing my confusion.


What I believe your seeing is what a lot of people think as and refer to as a offset thumb, but a offset thumb is basically a visual illusion. Do to how you have the ball sitting.

example:
This looks like two different grips, but they are both the same. The one on the right has just been slightly rotated so the finger appears lined up with the thumb.
http://s5.postimg.org/8dgr3uqmf/offset.jpg

Most grips use whats called the T-grip layout, That's where you have a line from the center of the bridge through the center of the thumb hole (this is called the grip centerline). With the finger holes on either side of it.

Now one hole might be higher or lower compared to the other, this is do to the span measurement between that finger and the thumb hole.

[Aslan]

this is do to the span measurement between that finger and the thumb hole.

Huh huh huh...you said "thumbhole". :rolleyes:

I don't know why you guys are even talking about this...the game is trending towards 2-handed so just drill two fingers and be done with it.

[vdubtx]

Huh huh huh...you said "thumbhole". :rolleyes:

I don't know why you guys are even talking about this...the game is trending towards 2-handed so just drill two fingers and be done with it.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

[Bowling Wonder]

What I believe your seeing is what a lot of people think as and refer to as a offset thumb, but a offset thumb is basically a visual illusion. Do to how you have the ball sitting.

example:
This looks like two different grips, but they are both the same. The one on the right has just been slightly rotated so the finger appears lined up with the thumb.
http://s5.postimg.org/8dgr3uqmf/offset.jpg

Most grips use whats called the T-grip layout, That's where you have a line from the center of the bridge through the center of the thumb hole (this is called the grip centerline). With the finger holes on either side of it.

Now one hole might be higher or lower compared to the other, this is do to the span measurement between that finger and the thumb hole.

Exactly what I was seeing! Thanks for the great response!

[dnhoffman]

Huh huh huh...you said "thumbhole". :rolleyes:

I don't know why you guys are even talking about this...the game is trending towards 2-handed so just drill two fingers and be done with it.

And you've only bowled 1 clean game you say!

[Aslan]

And you've only bowled 1 clean game you say!

So far. Yup. Tragic.

[Zaxmazr]

Huh huh huh...you said "thumbhole". :rolleyes:

I don't know why you guys are even talking about this...the game is trending towards 2-handed so just drill two fingers and be done with it.

Bringing the "mock Zaxmazr" to other threads now. Classy.

[Aslan]

Bringing the "mock Zaxmazr" to other threads now. Classy.

I don't think I mentioned you, but whatever. It was a joke...settle down skippy.

[bowl1820]

Everyone needs to start settling down in these threads.

The little snide comments that are starting to slip in here and there are going to get out of hand.

[Terrier]

The past few months, I've been working on staying behind the ball- or rather what I thought was staying behind the ball. Unfortunately, I found out that what I'd been doing is a backup release. I thought that having the palm face the ceiling is a straight release, but apparently not. [...]The description of your form for a straight release sounds alright to me. I presume that you are actually getting a little backup hook to your ball, correct? If you have a backup release, it should show in your ball motion more than anything else. I guess I'm a little dubious as to whether you are actually throwing a backup release for the past few months, because that is the sort of thing that is noticeable as soon as the ball hooks the opposite direction.

Maybe seeing a backup bowler will help you look for problems in your own release. In the pic below, notice how he keeps the center of the ball to the outside (towards the index finger) at his release instead of hanging straight below his wrist. His wrist/palm is (relatively) facing the pins, but his hand comes up the inner side of the ball. You might not be intentionally staying inside the ball or pulling your fingers way up the side of the ball, but you can get a little backup if you don't lift your hand through the center -- that is, you come up a bit to the inside instead. It might be just a slight fix there to get a straight release.

http://i.imgur.com/lPMvIzV.png?1

Here's the video if you want to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiupzU-qOgo


[...]In this video, near the end, Randy Pedersen seems to indicate that staying behind the ball has to do with a firm wrist- not avoiding rotation

I think you misunderstood the video. He says that in order to throw straighter, do the following:

1. lock that wrist into place.
2. stay behind the ball
3. have a relaxed armswing

To get back to your question about staying behind the ball, to me it means simply not rotating your fingers to the side of the ball. Basically, don't rev the ball to the side when you want it to go straight.

Let me know if I've misinterpreted anything. I'm still learning, but this is my understanding of things.

[Zaxmazr]

That's a pretty cool release. Reminds me of the UFO (?) release

[Bowling Wonder]

Gre for theat replies, everyone. To simplify things a bit, though, could someone post a picture of what "behind the ball" looks like- preferably from the back? Thanks.

[Mike White]

What I believe your seeing is what a lot of people think as and refer to as a offset thumb, but a offset thumb is basically a visual illusion. Do to how you have the ball sitting.

example:
This looks like two different grips, but they are both the same. The one on the right has just been slightly rotated so the finger appears lined up with the thumb.
http://s5.postimg.org/8dgr3uqmf/offset.jpg

Most grips use whats called the T-grip layout, That's where you have a line from the center of the bridge through the center of the thumb hole (this is called the grip centerline). With the finger holes on either side of it.

Now one hole might be higher or lower compared to the other, this is do to the span measurement between that finger and the thumb hole.

A better example of the optical illusion is when the finger spans are noticeably different.

If you position the ball so the finger holes are side by side, the thumb hole appears off set.