Question to PRO SHOP OWNERS, about bowling ball surface1

[MICHAEL]

I really didn't notice it until I took a picture! I do the four positions of ball on spinner!

1. thumb hole straight up!
2. thumb hole straight down!
3 ring finger hole up
4 ring finger hole down

after doing this, I noticed after taking a picture of my ball that you can see the lines going circular around the ball, as I guess you would expect using a spinner!

My question is should a person, to disrupt the straight lines going around the ball, ruff it up by hand with the last pad used 1000 grit ,,before putting on the, (in my case Reacta shine by storm), that should take it down to 1500!

I am shooting for as close to out of box as possible, and since I don't have a 1500 pad, and the Reacta Shine is suppose to clean polish and leave a 1500 finish on the ball I used it as a finale step..

What could, or am I doing wrong??
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/c8cad084-8d5b-4c8c-a4aa-f990d8c0d351_zps08115946.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/c8cad084-8d5b-4c8c-a4aa-f990d8c0d351_zps08115946.jpg.html)
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/aaaaftersandingsoakandpolish_zpsea1486a2.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/aaaaftersandingsoakandpolish_zpsea1486a2.jpg.html)

[bowl1820]

Well not a Pro shop operator, But I've spun a few balls over the years.

First 1000 abralon is not the last grit before the polish in a 1500 grit surface, 1000 abralon is around 500-600 grit.
Your seeing all those lines because its too course.

These are the steps to get a 1500

1500-grit Polished Factory Finish
1. 500-grit Abralon® – Sand firmly for 30 seconds on all four sides.
2. 1000-grit Abralon – Sand lightly for 20 seconds on all four sides.
3. 2000-grit Abralon – Sand lightly for 20 seconds on all four sides.
4. 4000-grit Abralon – Sand lightly for 20 seconds on all four sides.
5. Storm® Step Two™ – Polish lightly for 15 seconds on each side.

(Now you can sub. Rough Buff for the Step 2)

Also:
"1. thumb hole straight up!
2. thumb hole straight down!
3 ring finger hole up
4 ring finger hole down"

Say what?

Here are the 4 sides of the ball.

http://s5.postimg.org/9p4l6f32f/ball4sides.jpg

[bowl1820]

As a side note I like about a 1500 grit surface most of the time on the house shot here.

What I do is, I sand (4 sides) with 800 grit wet/dry paper (which would be between 1000 & 2000 abralon), then apply a light coat of polish.

To me this gives a reaction closer to the org. OOB 1500 surface.

Another option I use is instead of "polish" is Using "Soft Scrub "without bleach in it") on a sponge. This can give a nice sheen surface.

[MICHAEL]

thanks for the information!! Wow,,, I thought that a 1000 abrasion pad was a 1000 grit?? I will use the resurfacing you posted.. This might end up being a game changer for me!
I have been using the spinner to clean every night after bowling! It works great, but now I see what few times I have resurfaced, I have not only been WRONG with the Grit, but also spinning it WRONG!

Back to the spinner with the Nano Pearl!!

[MICHAEL]

As a side note I like about a 1500 grit surface most of the time on the house shot here.

What I do is, I sand (4 sides) with 800 grit wet/dry paper (which would be between 1000 & 2000 abralon), then apply a light coat of polish.

To me this gives a reaction closer to the org. OOB 1500 surface.

Another option I use is instead of "polish" is Using "Soft Scrub "without bleach in it") on a sponge. This can give a nice sheen surface.


hummm now you throw this at me!!?? If you look at the pictures I posted, that was a 1000 abrasion pad, only thing I did wrong was method of sanding position of ball. So you are saying If I do your method to get the 1500 surface,

1. use a a 1000 or 2000,,, I don't have a 1500, and the correct postion of ball for the 4 side surfacing

2. use the Reacta Shire,,,, (which is as I remember a 1500 polish combination)


Remember now the picture I posted was after using a 500 with pressure, then 30 seconds,,, then a 1000 light pressure for 15 seconds, then Reacta Shine.
And you can see the groves in the ball.....

To the naked eye, it did not show, but I noticed the camera really showed the groves..

Ok the above is what you do for a out of box 1500,,,, with only two steps..
in your tread before that you said go through many more steps??? which is right??? LOL

[MICHAEL]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/c0f4621d-6dc3-41e6-8b9e-198f5fe6ffef_zps3f4248a7.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/c0f4621d-6dc3-41e6-8b9e-198f5fe6ffef_zps3f4248a7.jpg.html)

Ok,,, did the method you mentioned and position of ball as you showed in picture, also followed the timing, and heavy touch, and light touch! Ball looks a hell of a lot better then the ICEMAN method... (:/
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/aaaaftersandingsoakandpolish_zpsea1486a2.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/aaaaftersandingsoakandpolish_zpsea1486a2.jpg.html)
Which looks better LOL.... First picture, or second... thanks for the advice
now to do the IQ pearl with the 1500!!

[bowl1820]

hummm now you throw this at me!!?? If you look at the pictures I posted, that was a 1000 abrasion pad, only thing I did wrong was method of sanding position of ball. So you are saying If I do your method to get the 1500 surface,

1. use a a 1000 or 2000,,, I don't have a 1500, and the correct postion of ball for the 4 side surfacing

2. use the Reacta Shire,,,, (which is as I remember a 1500 polish combination)


Remember now the picture I posted was after using a 500 with pressure, then 30 seconds,,, then a 1000 light pressure for 15 seconds, then Reacta Shine.
And you can see the groves in the ball.....

To the naked eye, it did not show, but I noticed the camera really showed the groves..

Ok the above is what you do for a out of box 1500,,,, with only two steps..
in your tread before that you said go through many more steps??? which is right??? LOL

The steps I posted above are the steps recommended by Storm to return a ball to a Factory 1500 grit surface.


As for the steps I used, The balls I use came with a OOB of 1500 and I liked how they reacted with that surface.

So when I was redoing the surfaces, when I did the recommended way. I felt the ball was going to long compared to the org. surface afterwards.

So I tried making adjustments to the steps to try and get the original reaction I had and I found the steps I did above, gave "me" the same reaction I had with the original OOB surface on the ball.

I guess what I want to say is, I wanted match the reaction of the org. surface, not necessarily the org. surface grit. And that's what I came up with.

I'm not saying you have to do that, just that I offered it as a option if the other doesn't give you what you want.

When I get a chance here in a little bit I'll post a pic of my ball done my way.

[bowl1820]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/c0f4621d-6dc3-41e6-8b9e-198f5fe6ffef_zps3f4248a7.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/c0f4621d-6dc3-41e6-8b9e-198f5fe6ffef_zps3f4248a7.jpg.html)

Ok,,, did the method you mentioned and position of ball as you showed in picture, also followed the timing, and heavy touch, and light touch! Ball looks a hell of a lot better then the ICEMAN method... (:/
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/aaaaftersandingsoakandpolish_zpsea1486a2.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/aaaaftersandingsoakandpolish_zpsea1486a2.jpg.html)
Which looks better LOL.... First picture, or second... thanks for the advice
now to do the IQ pearl with the 1500!!

Okay your technique looks alot better.

Now you will have see how the ball reacts, then adjust from there. If it goes long you might try it without the polish.

[Mudpuppy]

Iceman what is the deal with that large hole with the spider web / spider in it? Must be a cross hole? But why so big? And it looks like it is drilled to the core?

[bowl1820]

Okay Mike this is my Rotogrip Nomad I did 4 sides with 800 grit (3M 213Q Imperial Wetordry Production Paper P800) about 15-30sec each side, then 2 sides with soft scrub (No other grit before the 800)

I'll have to make a change though, that paper uses the P-scale like the pads. So it technically coarser than a 1000 pad, but paper doesn't cut the same as the pads do. So you could sub. a 1000 pad for it I believe.

As you can see though the yours and mine don't look that much different, at least to the eye. If I had used polish, it would be a bit shinier like yours. Also it would depend on how fresh the pad or paper was..

But it's just a option
http://s5.postimg.org/50t6oz39j/800softscrubball.jpg

[JaMau24]

I gotta get going, so excuse me if someone has already said this, I didn't read the rest of the comments. Anyway, the reason those lines are there are likely because you're jumping pads to high (meaning you're going from 500 to 2000 or something)... If you go up by smaller amounts, it smooths out those lines... (something like 180,500,1000,2000).

[MICHAEL]

500 Siaair Micro Pad; Rough Buff, how does this compare to paper, and the abralon pad! I have a number of DV8 balls, and it uses the Siaair micor Pad,,, For instances it says to use a 500 siaair micro pad, and rough buff for the older Red marauder. Would Reacta shine work as a (Rough buff?).. WHAT Abralon pad would be comparable to the 500 siaair!

[bowl1820]

500 Siaair Micro Pad; Rough Buff, how does this compare to paper, and the abralon pad! I have a number of DV8 balls, and it uses the Siaair micor Pad,,, For instances it says to use a 500 siaair micro pad, and rough buff for the older Red marauder. Would Reacta shine work as a (Rough buff?).. WHAT Abralon pad would be comparable to the 500 siaair!

Abralon and Siaair grit sizes are the same and there is no practical difference between Abralon and Siaair when new.

Abralon uses silicon carbide as its abrasive (very hard but brittle) while Siaair uses more conventional aluminum oxide as the abrasive.

Siaair pads last a little longer, but can cost more and sometimes harder to get for a good price.

As for the Rough Buff, no you can't use Reacta shine for a replacement. The closest thing would be Powerhouse Clean'N Sheen

[MICHAEL]

what is the difference between Storm Reacta shine, and Powerhouse Clean'N Sheen they both say they finish to a 1500 finish???? Does the storm have polish, and the clean n sheen dose not??

[JaMau24]

what is the difference between Storm Reacta shine, and Powerhouse Clean'N Sheen they both say they finish to a 1500 finish???? Does the storm have polish, and the clean n sheen dose not??

Reacta shine is just marketed towards Storm balls.. not a real big difference at all

[Stormed1]

Storm's Step 2 Has grit in it and takes the ball from 320 to 1500. Reacta Shine has very little grit. What I do when resurfacing a Storm or Roto Ball is 500/1000 Step 2 and then a light coat of Reacta Shine. For me I get basically the same apearance and reaction as OOB

[bowl1820]

what is the difference between Storm Reacta shine, and Powerhouse Clean'N Sheen they both say they finish to a 1500 finish???? Does the storm have polish, and the clean n sheen dose not??


Reacta shine is just marketed towards Storm balls.. not a real big difference at all
There is a big difference.

Powerhouse Clean'N Sheen is what use to be Track Clean'N Sheen, which was Originally A.P.P.'s Reaction "Heavy Duty Cleaner" .

Clean'N Sheen would take a ball sanded at 320 grit to 1000 Grit.

Now if you read the P.H. Clean'N Sheen info/bottle it say's.
• Removes sanding lines from 500-grit Abralon® surface
• Provides a 1500-grit compound finish

500 grit Abralon is about 320 grit paper, so their saying it's going from 320 grit-1500grit

The Storm Product that compares to that is Storm's Step 2 which take a ball sanded at 320 grit to 1500 Grit.

Brunswick Rough Buff does the same thing

Step 2=Rough Buff=PH Clean'N Sheen=320-1000/1500grit

Reacta Shine doesn't do that, it is just a 1500 grit polish

[MICHAEL]

Storm's Step 2 Has grit in it and takes the ball from 320 to 1500. Reacta Shine has very little grit. What I do when resurfacing a Storm or Roto Ball is 500/1000 Step 2 and then a light coat of Reacta Shine. For me I get basically the same apearance and reaction as OOB

I don't get it??? It says on storm's web site that Reacta shine takes the ball surface to 1500? Does it?

storm's Step 2 has grit in it and it takes a ball from 320, to 1500, (can you explain how it does that ???)

When you talking 320 1500, are you referring to sand paper, or abralon pad?

first oof Storme1 and 1800 thanks for the information, I find that I have been doing fine on the cleaning, and polish, but resurfacing has been totally wrong! lol

So Storm's step 2 does away with the need to sand the ball??? I guess you would at the least do the four side technique?

When you say a light coat of Reacta Shine, do you use the spinner, and if so, do you do all four sides, on the spinner?

I need to get the above straight!! LOL... find out I have been swimming up stream, and wondering why its taking so much effort. The IQ that I bowled the 300 with has never been the same since I mistakenly resurfaced it incorrectly!! I need to go through my choosen 5, (that I take on league nights), and resurface them all! lol

[bowl1820]

I don't get it??? It says on storm's web site that Reacta shine takes the ball surface to 1500? Does it?
It all depends on what the underlaying grit is.
Look at it this way, you can use reacta shine to maintain the surface, not to get it to that in the first place.

In fact here look at this guide it tells you how to get the surface and what to use to maintain it till the nexr resurfacing.

http://http://www.stormbowling.com/docs/ballreacionguide2011lr.pdf (http://www.stormbowling.com/docs/ballreacionguide2011lr.pdf)



storm's Step 2 has grit in it and it takes a ball from 320, to 1500, (can you explain how it does that ???)
Step 2 it has a coarser grit in it, if you tried to take a ball sanded at 320 up to 1500 with just reacta shine it would take a long long time.

Reacta shine is a cleaner/polish with a finer grit to it


When you talking 320 1500, are you referring to sand paper, or abralon pad?
320 1500 are referring to sandpaper grits
In abralon those would be about 500 - 3000



So Storm's step 2 does away with the need to sand the ball??? I guess you would at the least do the four side technique?
No you still have to sand the ball, the underlaying textures of the other grits used are what get you to the final surface you want.


When you say a light coat of Reacta Shine, do you use the spinner, and if so, do you do all four sides, on the spinner?

[MICHAEL]

ok ,, its sinking in LOL.... another question, getting ready to resurface the Freight Train it has another surface prep, what is this"
Freight Train Specs factory E=performance 1500 grit,,, I assum that would be paper, not the pad??


Product ID: 10420

Brand: 900 Global

Release Date: 07/05/2012

Perfect Scale®: 220.2

Performance: Pro Performance(10)

RG: 2.543

Differential: 0.055

Lane Condition: Heavy


Finish: Sanded

Coverstock: Reactive Resin

Coverstock Name: S77 Reactive

Factory Finish: E = performance of 1,500 grit

Core Type: Symmetric

Core Name: Combustion w / Energy Block

Quality: First Quality

Color(s): Black,Grey

[bowl1820]

Global uses Neat pads

Four distinct surfaces can be created using a series of steps. The “N” surfaces uses the roughest pad (Black), “E” surfaces use the next pad (Blue), “A” surfaces uses a smoother pad (Green), and “T” surfaces use the smoothest pad (Yellow). The sequence of steps for each surface is listed below and represents how each surface is prepared during manufacturing.
“N” = 60u 3M Trizact + 50u 3M Trizact + 40u 3M Trizact +30u 3M Trizact + “N” Black

“E” = 60u 3M Trizact + 40u 3M Trizact + 20u 3M Trizact + “E” Blue

“A” = 50u 3M Trizact + 30u 3M Trizact + 20u 3M Trizact +5u 3M Trizact + “A” Green

“T” = 50u 3M Trizact + 30u 3M Trizact + 20u 3M Trizact +5u 3M Trizact + “T” Yellow

Read this

http://www.900global.com/index.php/category-blog/79-neat-surface-technology.html


http://youtu.be/ph0N4Ndes78

[MICHAEL]

thanks for the interesting info! If you were doing the freight train, and are using the pads, which you know I have form 180 up to 4000,,,what steps would you follow!
I am going to give it a test tonight on league, its that 14lber my wife gave me, (freight train), looking for close to out of box,,, using my RED PADs... LOL,,,just a little joke, theirs having colors for those that cant read...(:)...

If I understand you, correctly:

Start with the 500, do 4 sides

then go 1000, 4 sides

then go 2000 4 sides

then go 4000 4 sides, and that would give me the 1500 out of box, (or close to it), that the ball came with! Using my pads alb...

[MICHAEL]

With all the different pads and papers,,,, each with their own specific tweak, there should be a conversion chart for those that don't want to purchase their proprietary brand name of surface conditioning. Sure its out there for some, but now what about the Global pads,,, how to each of them beak down into the form of say the abralon pad? I can think of at least 4 different types of surfacing devises, all different, and may proprietary... (I wounder why LOL)!

We need a scale that shows the conversions!! for all of them... (:)

[bowl1820]

As for the freight train if you dont have neat pads, I'd just do the storm steps for a 1500 surface. Should be pretty close.

Heres my grit chart, it doesnt have the neat pads but compares a lot them

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Elitefrozen/downloads/bowling_grit_chart.pdf

[bowl1820]

Heres a good comment about

These compounds, Rough Buff & Step 2 & clean'n sheen, are more like ultra aggressive polishes. They smooth out the underlying surface very quickly and very aggressively and then they add a small dose of polish. Normal abrasive polishes, like Brunswick Factory Finish High gloss polish and Storm's Xtra Shine, have abrasives in the polish, but their main job is polish. They do smooth the surface but not as much nor as aggressively as RB and Step 2.

[Terrier]

bowl1820, got a question for you. I have a Storm Sync. On Storm's site, it says it is factory surfaced at 4000-grit "pad". On bowlingball.com, it says 4000-grit Abralon. According to the pdf comparing grits, Abralon 4000 is equivalent to 1500 grit sandpaper. Is that an oversight by bowlingball.com?

Hmm.. I've also got a Roto Grip Defiant Soul. On their site and on bowlingball.com, they both say 4000-grit Abralon. Kind of left wondering why Roto Grip says abralon and Storm says "grit."

[bowl1820]

bowl1820, got a question for you. I have a Storm Sync. On Storm's site, it says it is factory surfaced at 4000-grit "pad". On bowlingball.com, it says 4000-grit Abralon. According to the pdf comparing grits, Abralon 4000 is equivalent to 1500 grit sandpaper. Is that an oversight by bowlingball.com?

Hmm.. I've also got a Roto Grip Defiant Soul. On their site and on bowlingball.com, they both say 4000-grit Abralon. Kind of left wondering why Roto Grip says abralon and Storm says "grit."

There's no oversight, They are both the same. A 4000-grit "Pad" is just referring to a 4000 grit Abralon "Pad". They just didn't happen to say abralon in what you read.

Here's storms step for resurfacing it says Abralon
4000-grit Factory Finish
1. 500-grit Abralon® – Sand firmly for 30 seconds on all four sides.
2. 2000-grit Abralon – Sand lightly for 10 seconds on all four sides.
3. 4000-grit Abralon – Sand lightly for 5 seconds on all four sides.

[Terrier]

I see those instructions are the same as the Sync tech sheet (link (http://www.stormbowling.com/tech-sheets/sync-techsheet.pdf)), which also simply says pad without specifying Abralon/Siaair. May I ask from where you copied those instructions?

Just looked at a couple other new balls and didn't find Abralon specified on their pdfs. So should I just assume that Storm and Rotogrip balls refer to Abralon/Siaair pads when they specify a certain grit? Kind of unnerving because I always assumed that they used Abralon. Then, I read this thread, actually looked it up on Storm's website, and found no mention of Abralon. :\

[bowl1820]

I see those instructions are the same as the Sync tech sheet (link (http://www.stormbowling.com/tech-sheets/sync-techsheet.pdf)), which also simply says pad without specifying Abralon/Siaair. May I ask from where you copied those instructions?

From the Storm Bowling Product and Maintenance Guide, I posted a link to it a few posts back. But here it is again
http://www.stormbowling.com/docs/ballreacionguide2011lr.pdf



Just looked at a couple other new balls and didn't find Abralon specified on their pdfs. So should I just assume that Storm and Rotogrip balls refer to Abralon/Siaair pads when they specify a certain grit?
Yes, Abralon has become pretty much the standard. I guess they just assumed every body knew when they say pad they are referring to abralon.


Kind of unnerving because I always assumed that they used Abralon. Then, I read this thread, actually looked it up on Storm's website, and found no mention of Abralon. :\
No where in this thread did we say they didn't use abralon. (At least that's how this sounds like its saying)


Looking at the Storm site, it just looks like they dropped the word Abralon from the new stuff and are just shortening it to pad. Maybe because "Abralon" is a Trademark name or because you could use another pad like Siaair.

[Terrier]

Much thanks for your patient answers, bowl. :)

I became concerned while reading how Storm Step 2's coarseness is given in sandpaper grit equivalents. It made me think, "Surely, the out-of-box preparation is given in terms of Abralon." When I went to look it up, it turns out to simply say "4000-grit pad" in multiple pdfs I found for various new products. I look up sanding disks for my woodworking interest every now and then, so pad does not necessarily equate to Abralon in my mind. Anyway, it's weird that Step 2 isn't in terms of Abralon. That's what threw me for a loop, as you can see. :)

[Mike White]

In my shop, I don't worry about "sides". I use this guy and he sands the whole ball very equally.

I have Abralon pads from 360 to 4000.

http://www.stormbowling.com/img/surface-factories/2/large.jpg

[bowl1820]

Much thanks for your patient answers, bowl. :)

I became concerned while reading how Storm Step 2's coarseness is given in sandpaper grit equivalents. It made me think, "Surely, the out-of-box preparation is given in terms of Abralon." When I went to look it up, it turns out to simply say "4000-grit pad" in multiple pdfs I found for various new products. I look up sanding disks for my woodworking interest every now and then, so pad does not necessarily equate to Abralon in my mind. Anyway, it's weird that Step 2 isn't in terms of Abralon. That's what threw me for a loop, as you can see. :)

That's because Storm Step 2 is a type of rubbing compound, not a type of sanding disc and They don't use the same grit scale.

Also Step 2 was around before abralon, so used the sandpaper grit terms.

[bowl1820]

Okay Mike, I dug around in my old files and found this about the difference in Step 2 and Reacta Shine. This was in reply to somebodys letter to Storm.


"Reacta-shine and Step 2 are very similar in nature, but have two key differences.

Step 2 contains a diminishing abrasive that will resurface the ball while it polishes. This is very similar to the type of compound we use in our finishing line. However, applying it by hand without the aid of a ball spinner is very difficult.

Hence, we created Reacta-shine which will polish the ball without creating significant changes to the substructure.

In order to get the OoB finish with this product, you need to use a 360-grit Abralon to create a foundation, then use Grey Scotch Brite to create the substructure. After this process, you can apply Reacta-shine and get a very similar finish.

Both work great, but have their own function.

Step 2 is great for Pro Shops (fast and easy)
Reacta-shine is great for hand application and touch-up work.

Hope this helps,
Storm Technical Department"

The OOB they mention is a old outdated method, but it has been updated a few times since then.

[MICHAEL]

In my shop, I don't worry about "sides". I use this guy and he sands the whole ball very equally.

I have Abralon pads from 360 to 4000.

http://www.stormbowling.com/img/surface-factories/2/large.jpg

I know those machines are not cheap,, but do they actually pay for themselves, vs doing it by hand? And do they hold up under heavy use? What does your machine charge for a,,,,let's say resurface of a VG nano pearl.... to 4000?

[Zaxmazr]

I thought that spider was real decoration or something for a second!

[Perrin]

for someone considering getting a spinner this thread has an amazing amount of information.

Thanks to all that contributed.

[MICHAEL]

for someone considering getting a spinner this thread has an amazing amount of information.

Thanks to all that contributed.

Get that spinner!!!!!!!!!!!!! If your serious about bowling, and want to hedge all the different angles you can create with your balls, GET ONE!
Best money I have EVER SPENT in regards to bowling!!! Hands DOWN!!