Question about PAP

[mjoyce]

Ok so I just purchased my first ball last week. I see a lot of talk about PAP and layouts and this that and the other thing. Also a lot of mentions about how your driller will calculate your PAP and layout after watching you throw.

But what if this is your first ball ever? How can you throw it so he can calculate your PAP and layout? By watching you throw a house ball? But I don't hook a house ball or throw it fingertipped. And I'm sure all of this has an impact on PAP and layout right?

I'm thinking this isn't that significan't right now. But will be moreso in the future like I want to change my layout or get a different ball right?

[bowl1820]

Ok so I just purchased my first ball last week. I see a lot of talk about PAP and layouts and this that and the other thing. Also a lot of mentions about how your driller will calculate your PAP and layout after watching you throw.

But what if this is your first ball ever? How can you throw it so he can calculate your PAP and layout? By watching you throw a house ball? But I don't hook a house ball or throw it fingertipped. And I'm sure all of this has an impact on PAP and layout right?

I'm thinking this isn't that significan't right now. But will be moreso in the future like I want to change my layout or get a different ball right?

If your just starting out you don't have to worry about PAP's and Layout. The Proshop shouldn't shouldn't be worried about it even.

Having a person who has never thrown a ball (new bowler), just starting out or changing from a conventional grip to fingertip, would be basically pointless. They really wouldn't have a stable PAP till they developed a consistent release or the skill level where thinking about layouts would be meaningful.

But Yes in the future these things would be more significant.

Heres a video that should explain why.
Bowling Tip of the Week - A Fireside Chat about Drilling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nK5HO__gBJE

[sprocket]

There are many drillers who don't consider PAP for any bowlers. Ever. The driller will likely just give you an average strength drilling that works for an average PAP. It's going to work just fine for you. The absolute most important thing for you is proper fit. Everything else is a distant second. Find someone who has a reputation for providing proper fit.

If, for example, you had a ball drilled and the thumb hole was just 1/32 too big, but you thought it was normal, your ability to improve your game would suffer tremendously. Same thing if the span, grip size and type and pitches aren't optimal.

If I could repeat it a hundred times I would. Proper fit is that important. Without it you WILL develop bad habits that will be harder to correct the longer you ingrain them. Also know this: You really need someone who is an expert in fitting because a properly fitted ball may feel VERY WRONG to you if you have gotten used to an ill fitting ball.

Oops now I just reread your post and you already have the ball. Make sure it fits right. Have your driller recheck it and see if you might need to add tape to the thumb hole. Now go get some lessons!

[e-tank]

If your just starting out you don't have to worry about PAP's and Layout. The Proshop shouldn't shouldn't be worried about it even.

Having a person who has never thrown a ball (new bowler), just starting out or changing from a conventional grip to fingertip, would be basically pointless. They really wouldn't have a stable PAP till they developed a consistent release or the skill level where thinking about layouts would be meaningful.


Heres a video that should explain why.
Bowling Tip of the Week - A Fireside Chat about Drilling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nK5HO__gBJE

saw that vid when you posted it before and it seriously changed the way i look at drillings. Also the reason why i have success with used balls when i have no idea what layout is put on it

[noeymc]

first ball pretty much just say this is my first ball i dont know much but i need a good ball and dont let them sucker you into buying a 250 dollar ball i just got my scream for 115 plugs + drilling and its a good ball more money doesnt = more strikes

[mjoyce]

Well so far so good with the new ball. I've rolled about 10 games with it. I didn't do well in leagues on Friday but I went to practice Sunday and I did have two pretty solid games a 233 and a 173, my average is a 138 so those are pretty good games for me. I had a crappy game in the middle where I just couldn't hit my mark buin the 233 game I had 6 strikes in a row.

I've also been doing a solid job of picking up 10 pins when I leave them.

I was just asking, the pro shop did a good job of fitting me the ball feels right, the fingers fit nice and tight with the inserts, and the thumb hole is tight but not so much that my thumb gets stuck at all. It's also not too loose that I have to really hold on to the ball. From what I've read that seems like a proper fitting.

The only concern that the driller had was that I don't have a lot of flexibility in my fingers so the span is a little shorter. But I can't bend my fingertips enough go get hand flat in the ball. But he said once I get the flexibility he'd plug the thumb and move it back for me.

Mainly I was just curious because I see people talk about it in the forums and I wanted to see what it was all about.

And noeymc I didn't end up with a $200 ball. I got a DV8 Misfit and ended up paying $160. I probably could have saved some buying online but he didn't try to steer me towards a super high end ball. So far I love it. The ball isn't a problem. My problem is consistenly throwing the ball over my mark. Or in some cases finding the mark that's working. But since I'm new to throwing a hook I'm learning there is some trial and error involved depending on lanes and oil condition.

[J Anderson]

Well so far so good with the new ball. I've rolled about 10 games with it. I didn't do well in leagues on Friday but I went to practice Sunday and I did have two pretty solid games a 233 and a 173, my average is a 138 so those are pretty good games for me. I had a crappy game in the middle where I just couldn't hit my mark buin the 233 game I had 6 strikes in a row.

I've also been doing a solid job of picking up 10 pins when I leave them.

I was just asking, the pro shop did a good job of fitting me the ball feels right, the fingers fit nice and tight with the inserts, and the thumb hole is tight but not so much that my thumb gets stuck at all. It's also not too loose that I have to really hold on to the ball. From what I've read that seems like a proper fitting.

The only concern that the driller had was that I don't have a lot of flexibility in my fingers so the span is a little shorter. But I can't bend my fingertips enough go get hand flat in the ball. But he said once I get the flexibility he'd plug the thumb and move it back for me.

Mainly I was just curious because I see people talk about it in the forums and I wanted to see what it was all about.

And noeymc I didn't end up with a $200 ball. I got a DV8 Misfit and ended up paying $160. I probably could have saved some buying online but he didn't try to steer me towards a super high end ball. So far I love it. The ball isn't a problem. My problem is consistenly throwing the ball over my mark. Or in some cases finding the mark that's working. But since I'm new to throwing a hook I'm learning there is some trial and error involved depending on lanes and oil condition.

While the pros are much more accurate than the average bowler, even they don't hit their exact mark every single time. The more you practice the better you'll get at it.

Since every ball rolled down the lane affects the lane condition, as you improve the challenge goes from just hitting your mark to making the right guess as to how to adjust to the lane condition. As with anything else, the more experience you get, the better "guesses" you'll make.

[mjoyce]

While the pros are much more accurate than the average bowler, even they don't hit their exact mark every single time. The more you practice the better you'll get at it.

Since every ball rolled down the lane affects the lane condition, as you improve the challenge goes from just hitting your mark to making the right guess as to how to adjust to the lane condition. As with anything else, the more experience you get, the better "guesses" you'll make.

Oh yeah man I see that for sure. I think before I had a little more room for error. Actually I don't know if that's the right way to put it. But when I threw a straight house ball I would throw it between the third and center arrow on a slight angle towards the pocket. if I missed a board left or right it wasn't that big a deal because I wasn't getting a ton of carry anyway due to throwing a straight plastic ball. I'd get some strikes but nothing like I see with the Misfit.

Now if I miss a couple boards right I'm hitting light and leaving a makeable spare. Or I'm hitting the headpin high and leaving like a 3,6,10 or something. Mostly makeable spares but throwing that ball at the spares is sometimes an issue.

10 pins with the misfit are actually easy. I throw cross lane over the center arrow when the ball gets to the dry it holds on the edge and gets the spare. But some of the other spares cause more difficulty.

[Terrier]

Congrats on the nice scores. It sounds like you're really starting to appreciate the subtleties of the sport.

When you talk about your finger flexibility, do you mean you can't get the pads of your fingers to lay flat on the ball?

[mjoyce]

Thanks! I do appreciate the subtleties of the sport. Maybe too much. I pay a lot of attention to where I'm standing, where I'm aiming, and the mark I actually hit in order to properly adjust for my next ball. The problem with that is that my fiance doesn't pay as much attention. And therefore giving her advice is challenging.

But for me paying attention to that stuff really helps.

Sort of. When the pro was measuring my span for fingertip grips I had my fingertips in the measurement ball, and when he would move the thumb back to where it 'should be' for fingertips based on the length of my hand my fingernails were pushing forward into the front of the holes.

So I guess I have a hard time just bending my fingertips at the first knuckle, my middle knuckle also bends some. He had said that after throwing fingertip for a while that will improve and we can move the thumb back.

It's kind of hard to explain but for the normal person there hand will be flat agains the ball with fingertip grips. My hand doesn't really get that way no matter what I do at this point. It doesn't really mess me up at all just made a difference when measuring the span.

[MICHAEL]

I just started bowling league, sanctioned a few years after I retired, never had the time while working!

One thing I know for sure, there is NO MAGIC BALL!! LOL

Bowling is to a large degree a HEAD game! The more you know, the better your scores! Did I say HEAD game, its also a very mechanical game! Consistency in your delivery! If you are inconsistent in your delivery, then its hard to make an adjustment.

If you vary your speed, position of hand, where you stand, what you aim at, then it becomes hard to make any adjustment that truly will get accomplished what you are wanting the ball to do!

Remember I just started bowling myself sanctioned leagues a little over two years ago, and now its all falling into place at the age of 65!! lol
I am still learning myself.

I have had 2 300s in 6 months,,, and I owe it all to this great form, and the people that share their knowledge! I had my first 300 with a Storm IQ pearl, symmetrical ball. My second with a Storm Virtual Gravity ball that had been plugged twice, symmetrical ball

Two different balls, same bowling lanes, same house pattern basicly, same result.

Both balls are drilled differently, and both gave me a 300! this last one a CLEAN IN THE POCKET game all the way, and I attribute it to hitting the mark, making mechanical adjustments, and keeping the swing, speed, and release consistent!

Both of my balls are drilled pin up, but not in the same place. I have a Lemon Drop misfit DV8 that I use when the lanes get dry, and it one heck of a ball for dry lanes. "works for me great when that happens"!

I guess my point is that this instructor is in my opinion right on in his comments! Get consistent with your delivery!! Then you will start moving up in scores!

[mjoyce]

Thanks ICEMAN I agree 100% I'm working on that consistency and it paid off in practice on Sunday with a 233 and a 173 with an average of 138 that's damn good for me!!!!! The middle game was not so good but I was able to get back to what I needed in game 3!

[MICHAEL]

Thanks ICEMAN I agree 100% I'm working on that consistency and it paid off in practice on Sunday with a 233 and a 173 with an average of 138 that's damn good for me!!!!! The middle game was not so good but I was able to get back to what I needed in game 3!

I guess its that middle game that got both of us..LOL.! Monday I had a 300 game, 300, then 216, final game 264! Almost got that 800,,, if it weren't for that MIDDLE GAME!! I actually hit the pocket in that middle game, just seemed to lose the carry... that I had in the first, and last game!
FOCUS,,, FOCUS,,, and then FOCUS!! That's my mantra!! Great scores.... soon you will have that 600, then 700! maybe a few 300's on the way!! If you think you can, it will happen! Always have positive thoughts

I know when I start out with a 10 pin leave, then pick it up, I say to myself: "Now you have to settle for a 290!" I never give up! LOL Again good bowling!!!

[mjoyce]

In my 233 game I started 7 open...then went spare spare, x,x,x,x,x,x, then 9/8 in the tenth.

It was a pretyt awesome game and my best score EVER! I can feel it coming together I just hope it happens for the next league night. Getting some practice on Saturday so that should help.

[MICHAEL]

In my 233 game I started 7 open...then went spare spare, x,x,x,x,x,x, then 9/8 in the tenth.

It was a pretyt awesome game and my best score EVER! I can feel it coming together I just hope it happens for the next league night. Getting some practice on Saturday so that should help.

I would say GOOD LUCK, but very little luck is involved! Practice, and fundamentals will get you where you want to go!!! Again, great series, and nice 233!!!

[ggranger97]

If your just starting out you don't have to worry about PAP's and Layout. The Proshop shouldn't shouldn't be worried about it even.

Having a person who has never thrown a ball (new bowler), just starting out or changing from a conventional grip to fingertip, would be basically pointless. They really wouldn't have a stable PAP till they developed a consistent release or the skill level where thinking about layouts would be meaningful.

But Yes in the future these things would be more significant.

Heres a video that should explain why.
Bowling Tip of the Week - A Fireside Chat about Drilling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nK5HO__gBJE

I agree with him layout won't be important for your first ball. Later on you might want to measure it. What is important now is to get the right fit