Spare Shooting: Where to start counting the boards?

[atty_hen05]

Good day,

I've watched in Youtube about Spare Shooting using the 4-8-12 and 3-6-9 method. Now, my questions are:

1. Where to do I start counting the boards? is it fixed at the 20th board or it depends on where my "strike" board is?

2. Is that method designed only for spareballs? or can I still use reactive ones?


Thanks in advance.

[bowl1820]

Good day,
I've watched in Youtube about Spare Shooting using the 4-8-12 and 3-6-9 method. Now, my questions are:

1. Where to do I start counting the boards? is it fixed at the 20th board or it depends on where my "strike" board is?.

Most of the spare systems use where you stand for a strike shot as the board you would count from.


2. Is that method designed only for spareballs? or can I still use reactive ones?
Thanks in advance.

Yes you could use your reactive ball, but having a spare ball also opens up more options for you.

[Hampe]

1. Yes....those systems are based off your strike line.

2. In my experience (I'm not a coach or anything), those methods can be used with any ball, BUT you must adjust from the "strike line" of that ball.

I played with a light oil reactive ball as a spare ball for years using the 3-6-9 system. It worked pretty well, but the problem was that depending on the center or oil pattern I would always have to adjust the strike line for that ball. It's much easier using a plastic spare ball and playing the same way in any center on any oil. I don't use the 3-6-9 system anymore with the spare ball....I just found the spot on each side of the approach where I can consistently hit the corners, and then adjust 3-4 boards per pin accordingly.

[Aslan]

I tend not to use a "spare ball" and one probem I've had when using one is you obviously need a completely different "strike line" to work off of.

For example, my usual ball, left foot is about 5 boards to the left of center (wood/dry lanes) and I aim for 9-11th board. I then adjust from there laterally to pick up spares. It works rather well. On synthetics, left foot is only a couple boards left of center and I'm targeting 14-15th boards...again, lateral adjustments work well to adjust for the pocket or to pick up spares.

BUT...if I switch to a different ball...in either scenario...I can't just adjust 4-8-12 from my position...because the spare ball (or 2nd/other ball) is going to react differently (or not at all). So if you use two balls, you need to establish a strike line for the second ball...THEN do the adjustment.

OR...many bowlers will use a simplified approach to spare shooting if it's just the 7, 10, 4-7, or 6-10 where they just aim cross lane. It's not as precise...but it can definitely work with practice. And thats based on the simple physics that if you can just get the ball to go to the other half of the lane...you automatically have about (depending on which pins and how many) a 30% chance of picking up the spare...because you've decreased your target area by 50%.

Thats one reason I don't like to use a "spare ball". I have a very straight ball as my strike ball. It's not a "big hook" ball...especially on heavy oil synthetics. So it's easier just to use one ball, one strike line, make little adjustments over the course of the night. I have a spare ball in my 2-ball bag...but I only take it out for splits. And, while I'm not a proponent of "arsenals"...realize I DO understand that for many bowlers they almost "need" a spare ball just because it can be extremely difficult to pick up some spares if your strike ball is a asymetric, big hook kinda ball.

[classygranny]

I tend not to use a "spare ball" and one probem I've had when using one is you obviously need a completely different "strike line" to work off of.

For example, my usual ball, left foot is about 5 boards to the left of center (wood/dry lanes) and I aim for 9-11th board. I then adjust from there laterally to pick up spares. It works rather well. On synthetics, left foot is only a couple boards left of center and I'm targeting 14-15th boards...again, lateral adjustments work well to adjust for the pocket or to pick up spares.

BUT...if I switch to a different ball...in either scenario...I can't just adjust 4-8-12 from my position...because the spare ball (or 2nd/other ball) is going to react differently (or not at all). So if you use two balls, you need to establish a strike line for the second ball...THEN do the adjustment.

OR...many bowlers will use a simplified approach to spare shooting if it's just the 7, 10, 4-7, or 6-10 where they just aim cross lane. It's not as precise...but it can definitely work with practice. And thats based on the simple physics that if you can just get the ball to go to the other half of the lane...you automatically have about (depending on which pins and how many) a 30% chance of picking up the spare...because you've decreased your target area by 50%.
Thats one reason I don't like to use a "spare ball". I have a very straight ball as my strike ball. It's not a "big hook" ball...especially on heavy oil synthetics. So it's easier just to use one ball, one strike line, make little adjustments over the course of the night. I have a spare ball in my 2-ball bag...but I only take it out for splits. And, while I'm not a proponent of "arsenals"...realize I DO understand that for many bowlers they almost "need" a spare ball just because it can be extremely difficult to pick up some spares if your strike ball is a asymetric, big hook kinda ball.

I have to jump in here and say I totally disagree with this statement. Pros mostly use a spare ball to shoot every spare - and they aren't doing it from the strike line of a spare ball. They shoot mostly across lane or directly towards. Since I believe their spare shooting would be more than your 30% stated, I will continue to use a spare ball, and typically, will encourage every bowler to learn to pick up spares using a spare ball.

[Aslan]

I have to jump in here and say I totally disagree with this statement. Pros mostly use a spare ball to shoot every spare - and they aren't doing it from the strike line of a spare ball. They shoot mostly across lane or directly towards. Since I believe their spare shooting would be more than your 30% stated, I will continue to use a spare ball, and typically, will encourage every bowler to learn to pick up spares using a spare ball.

Actually (and you're going to hate this)...I think you "agreed" with me.

1) "Pros mostly use a spare ball to shoot spares"- Correct. They use high end strike balls with a lot of hook, so spare balls are almost essential...or at least make it much easier.

2) "...they don't use it from the strike line of the spare ball."- Some do, some don't. Norm Duke advocates a straight cross-lane spare shooting. Many other spare shooting videos advocate using a strike ball and adjusting laterally. I was just pointing out that if you're using the "lateral approach to spare shooting" that the OP was talking about...that approach is based on using the same ball as a strike ball.

3) Pros do a lot of things...some of which you wouldn't recommend a new person do...some you would. I've found with a low oil/dry lane ball...a spare ball offers no advantage. On heavy oil (or sport patterns that pros bowl on)...if your strike ball is a $179-$229 asymetric ball with a massive hook...I agreed (and stated in my post) that a spare ball is almost essential.

Sometimes I think people get in such a hurry to disagree with me...they don't bother reading what I say. I think we were in total agreement!!

You don't have to take my word for it...who am I?? But these guys from bowlingball.com explain it well (before they just start goofing around for half the video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIes47fkkZM

Mainly, there's the 3-6-9 and the 4-8-12. These were originally used when people threw one ball (strike ball). Then as people started using "spare balls" (as technology made strike balls more powerful and reactive)...bowlers had to develop a new "target" for the second ball. I refer to this as a second "strike line" for your spare ball. The guy in the video explains it more like finding a target line for the spare ball...THEN using the 3-6-9 or 4-8-12 to hit other spares.

Most people use spare balls nowadays...ball manufacturers encourage it...balls are more drastic/powerful now...so its more necessary. But as the video explains...you don't use a spare ball and the 3-6-9 approach and base it off your strike ball line to the headpin. Your strike ball doesn't go straight...your spare ball does...it's a different line. If I were to use a spare ball, I'd establish my line at the pocket...then use 4-8-12 at that target...using that starting position. And I was taught (for a right hander) to also slightly move your target left for spares on the right...but same logic...establish a line to the pocket...THEN use 4-8-12 for the right side.

Modern pros DO do this...it's most obvious with guys that play extreme high tracks on sport patterns. If your strike ball target is board 1-2 along the gutter....your target for your spare ball MUST change...or you'll have to throw over the ball return. Same can be seen when watching big hook players that play left to right across heavy oil...they are already starting near the left gutter...if they adjust 12 boards left to hit a 10-pin...they'll be throwing straight over the ball return into the right gutter.

But if I'm wrong, please let me know. I use one ball for all non-splits. So I use the classical 4-8-12 (I like it better than 3-6-9) approach to spare shooting. So I'm not an expert on throwing a "spare ball". It just is purely "Physics"...you'd have to have a different trajectory for a projectile that has a straighter path....if you're rotating your target line around a fixed point (the physics way of explaining lateral movement). Norm Duke advocates throwing across the alley...but I'd bet $400 that when he does....he still has a target in mind that is closer than that 10-pin. And I can guarantee it's NOT the same target he throws his strike ball at.

I've gotten frustrated at times (who hasn't) with 10-pin spares and tried Norm Duke's more direct (non 4-8-12) approach and I've had some success with it. I just struggle with changing my position at the foul line. Barry Asher showed me on these type of cross lane spares....you sort of turn your shoulders to face the pin you're shooting at. It's not drastic...but for a traditional 4-8-12...non-spare ball kinda bowler....getting used to NOT having your shoulders parallel to the foul line feels "strange". The advantage (advocated by Johnny Petraglia) of the 3-6-9 or 4-8-12 NON-spare ball spare shooting is muscle memory. You're throwing the ball the EXACT same way at spares as at strikes...you're ONLY varying your starting position (and target slightly on spares on your right for righties).

Thats my take....feel free to disagree. Lord knows my "clean game total" isn't what I want it to be...BUT...my spare shooting has probably improved 60-85% in the last 4-5 months. Probably because I leave so damn many spares I'm getting a lot of practice. :mad:

[bowl1820]

Good day,

I've watched in Youtube about Spare Shooting using the 4-8-12 and 3-6-9 method. Now, my questions are:
1. Where to do I start counting the boards? is it fixed at the 20th board or it depends on where my "strike" board is?
2. Is that method designed only for spareballs? or can I still use reactive ones?
Thanks in advance.

Might look into this:
The Shadow Pin Spare System I try to work on this as much as I can and it has been working pretty good.

1. Shoot all of your spares with the exception of those with double wood, throwing a plastic ball end-over-end with a straight trajectory.

2. Shoot same side corner pins cross lane, using a plastic ball thrown end-over-end targeting somewhere around the fourth arrow, depending on your laydown point. Be aware that where you stand on the approach may vary from center to center depending on the amount of oil on the center of the lane and the lane condition used.

3. Shoot your opposite side corner pins cross lane, using a plastic ball thrown end-overend and targeting around the fourth arrow, depending on your laydown point.

4. Shoot the 3 pin using the Shadow 9 Pin. Roll a plastic ball, end-over-end, straight down the third arrow (15th board).

5. Shoot the 2 pin using the Shadow 8 Pin, throwing a plastic ball end-over-end, straight down the fifth arrow (25th board). Throw all of the spares that include the 2 pin or the 8 pin, with the exception of the 2-8 double wood, in this manner including washouts.

6. Shoot the 5 pin and the headpin, throwing a plastic ball end-over-end, straight down the fourth arrow (20th board).


If you want to read about the shadow pin spare system here is a link to the BTM article.
http://digitaleditions.bowlingthismonth.com/print.php?pages=6,8,9,10,11&issue_id=44327&ref=1
If you right click and do "save link as" you can save the pdf.
Get the pdf while you can


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Oae3gCQFJBU

Here's Rob Mautner comments on the system he made recently:


The main thing about the Shadow Pin Spare System is that it emphasizes throwing a plastic ball straight at a particular pin, even if that pin is not standing.

The biggest improvement that I've seen in my own game since developing the system is in converting splits. Like everything I write about, it's based on logic. The logic is simple. It's based on angles.

The larger the angle, the tougher the split is to convert. If you leave a 4-6, one pin has to go at a 90 degree angle to pick up the other. 90 degrees is almost impossible.

If however, you are trying to convert a washout, the angle that you need to propel the head pin is smaller if you go straight up the fifth arrow, than if you hook the ball to throw the head pin into the ten. Smaller angle = greater chance of conversion.

I don't usually keep track, but Norm Duke told me that the difference in going straight up the fifth arrow versus hooking the ball to the left of the head pin is 59% versus 30%. Makes sense to me!

[scruffwhor]

I usually threw my spare shots pretty similar to this system till a guy on my team asked me why I use my spare ball for the 7 pin. "just kook your strike ball across the lane".

Not knowing any better I tried it a few times with mixed success. Throwing my strike ball across the lane seems to take some control away from spare shooting. I'm not sure when my strike ball is going to break through the heavier oil in the middle.

This confirms my suspicions. I think I'll continue with my spare ball, cross lane 7 pin pick ups.