Bowl GREAT against some teams, and POORLY against others (:?

[MICHAEL]

:confused:Have you ever noticed that when you bowl some teams, you always have a GREAT series, then another team you always seem to do poorly!
Could it have anything to do with their bowling styles? Where they throw their balls, and push the oil! or is it just my imagination!?

[e-tank]

Now that i think about it, the teams i bowl badly against are usually thumbless or 2 hand crankers with a combination of straight bowlers on the team. I suppose its possible that it could be from the shifting of oil

[Aslan]

I think as "teams" we can sometimes bowl worse against worse teams and better against better teams. You sort of raise or lower your game to their level.

But individually...I hate bowling teams where they have 1,2,3,4,5 bowlers that are all carrying really, really high averages and low handicaps. Seeing guys right there in front of you bowling 287-236-264 while you're trying to get excited over your chance at breaking 200...it's just humiliating. Plus...if your team DOES pull out the victory...it's usually because of handicap...so did you "really" beat them?? Not really.

My goal for the teams I play on is to always try and beat the other team scratch. That way they can't whine about sandbagging or handicaps. But I have to admit...tonight, sanctioned league...it's gonna be TOUGH. 3 of the 5 opposing players sport averages around 210. And these guys are the real deal Holyfield...I've often found myself glancing over at these guys...and man...you'll see....X 9/ X X X X X X ....etc... And you don't have to see it...you can HEAR it. The pins explode when they hit them...it makes that "perfect sound" that you are pretty sure is a strike.

But...just gotta remember...if I bowl above my average....thats all I can do.

[vdubtx]

It's all in your head. Just go out and do your thing without letting anything else get in your way. You dictate the way things go, not the other way around.

[e-tank]

I think as "teams" we can sometimes bowl worse against worse teams and better against better teams. You sort of raise or lower your game to their level.

But individually...I hate bowling teams where they have 1,2,3,4,5 bowlers that are all carrying really, really high averages and low handicaps. Seeing guys right there in front of you bowling 287-236-264 while you're trying to get excited over your chance at breaking 200...it's just humiliating. Plus...if your team DOES pull out the victory...it's usually because of handicap...so did you "really" beat them?? Not really.

My goal for the teams I play on is to always try and beat the other team scratch. That way they can't whine about sandbagging or handicaps. But I have to admit...tonight, sanctioned league...it's gonna be TOUGH. 3 of the 5 opposing players sport averages around 210. And these guys are the real deal Holyfield...I've often found myself glancing over at these guys...and man...you'll see....X 9/ X X X X X X ....etc... And you don't have to see it...you can HEAR it. The pins explode when they hit them...it makes that "perfect sound" that you are pretty sure is a strike.

But...just gotta remember...if I bowl above my average....thats all I can do.

had this problem when i first started from being intimidated by averages to other teams whining about handicaps. Bowling by myself in practice and doing weird things like the shift technique helped me a lot in being comfortable in my bowling skin(going from a 120-->190avg also helped). Also i realized that most people have no idea what theyre doing when they bowl, they just know where they have to shoot it for a strike

[sprocket]

Even if true it doesn't matter. You can't win every week. Even if your team went on a hot streak it would almost for sure mean you are bowling over your team average week after week. Eventually your handicap will drop to the point where you will start to lose, that is unless there are members of your team that are raising their average because they are improving all season long. If you have team members that are getting better and better, then over time you are going to rise to the top.

If you are on a handicap league and there is a team that dominates because all the members have really high averages, and they win year after year, then the handicap system of your league needs to be revised. Those guys should either be bowling a scratch league or the handicap system should be such that it evens the playing field even for them.

The team we lost to in the championship last year we just bowled again last week. We beat them 38-2. I was one of the losses.

[circlecity]

Having a lot of bowlers throwing in the same area will affect the oil carry down. The pace of the game can also affect your bowling to a degree. In the end though it's really all on "you." Bowling is an offensive game, there is no 3-4 defense the other team can deploy.

[MICHAEL]

Having a lot of bowlers throwing in the same area will affect the oil carry down. The pace of the game can also affect your bowling to a degree. In the end though it's really all on "you." Bowling is an offensive game, there is no 3-4 defense the other team can deploy.

Good point! The team we bowled Thursday, just behind us in the standings, took,,, TOOK their time bowling, going out to smoke, In the bar, and some just lagging,,,, like they were trying to throw our rhythm off! None of us smoke, or Drink, so we are waiting,,, waiting!!!! all night long...

I actually think it was done on purpose. at least that's what teammates were saying... O well we bowled well below are averages as a group other then Manic, (my wife),,, You know how it goes.... down today, Up tomorrow!! We will get them next time.... We are still in 1st!

When you have to give handicap pins, you really never really win..... It like running a 100 yard dash, against a guy that starts out 50 yards ahead of you! Did he really win... NO,,, with help they did win a few..

And yes,, I would love to bowl scratch,,, but try to find one!! 98 percent of them are handicap... I am not a bowling god, many better bowlers then Iceman, probably,, I think,,, but I can take getting losing if its an even playing field! So much sandbagging out there, it happened Thursday night, After we gave them
Godzilla amouts of pins,,, in the ten frame when they knew that had won that game, he said should I throw it in the gutter.... out loud! gurrrrrr!!!! Iceman almost had a melt down!!

ONE thing I can promise you this is: NONE OF US SANDBAG!! Sandbagging is almost as bad as stealing! It should be punishable with 5 years in prison!
out in 6 months with good behavior, Chain gang!!

[circlecity]

ONE thing I can promise you this is: NONE OF US SANDBAG!! Sandbagging is almost as bad as stealing! It should be punishable with 5 years in prison!
out in 6 months with good behavior, Chain gang!!
I agree about sandbagging. They should have a sandbagging court and if you get convicted you can't bowl for a year or something. :o

[noeymc]

i bowl better when i bowl against people with higher avgs

[MICHAEL]

I agree about sandbagging. They should have a sandbagging court and if you get convicted you can't bowl for a year or something. :o

I agree with that 100 percent! But,,,, when you bowl a good bowler that is a sandbagger, you not only have to beat them scratch, but you have to beat THEIR handicap that is added on!

I am new to bowling, but I have SEEN, and heard TEAMS talking sandbagging strategies!! Last Thursday the team we were bowling, one of there bowlers actually had the nerve to turn around and say, should just throw a gutter ball???? GURRRRR... we had them beat scratch, but they had that game, and he wanted to keep that handicap, as high as possible! Iceman was not a happy bowler when this Ding Dong said that!!! I wanted to do a brain freeze on him right on the spot!!

I know handicaps have been covered on this forum extensively! I just wish there were more selections to discourage it! It's ,,, agitating, and pisses me off that a noble idea to make the game a more level playing field, is used for EGO, WINS, AND MONEY/PRIZES!

What IS A FAIR PUNISHMENT FOR SANDBAGGERS?

I think 5 years in a Federal Prison is very fair, with a roommate called, Bubba!!!

Any other ideas, on the low form of bowling without honor type!!

[Aslan]

When you have to give handicap pins, you really never really win..... It like running a 100 yard dash, against a guy that starts out 50 yards ahead of you! Did he really win... NO,,, with help they did win a few..

And yes,, I would love to bowl scratch,,, but try to find one!! 98 percent of them are handicap...

I don't necessarily buy that. You're in Missouri...the St. Louis area is one of the strongest for bowling. St. Louis, Florida, Detroit. I mean, if you wanted to stop messing around with handicap house leagues, given your scores, I'd say you could find 1-3 scratch leagues (individual, doubles, and team) to compete in. And I think you'd definitely be competitive.

I still stand by the belief that 98% or more of bowlers with high averages don't take that next step out of vanity more so than any of the common excuses (travel expense, can't find a scratch league, just wanna have fun, etc...). I mean, I have no problem with good bowlers bowling in handicap leagues...have at it if thats what ya wanna do...but elite bowlers that are bowling over 200 every night shouldn't be able to complain about how they beat a team of new players and only lost because of handicap and how thats BS. Because it's equally BS that a team with 4-5 guys with 200 averages are playing no-tap or on some Monday Fun League.

At least bowling HAS a handicap format. Trust me, from experience playing ice hockey, in sports where you just have to rely on people being honest about their skill level...and joining the approriate league/division...HORRIBLE success rate. It got so bad I almost quit playing. I mean, you have college players playing in a beginner league over the summer??? Players that actually get scholarships to play hockey at a university...and instead of joining a "A-League", they join a "C-League". I've played in C-Leagues against college players, former junior level amateurs, former elite travel players, even an occasional former low-level (iron leagues) pros...it was rediculous.

[mjoyce]

I don't necessarily buy that. You're in Missouri...the St. Louis area is one of the strongest for bowling. St. Louis, Florida, Detroit. I mean, if you wanted to stop messing around with handicap house leagues, given your scores, I'd say you could find 1-3 scratch leagues (individual, doubles, and team) to compete in. And I think you'd definitely be competitive.

I still stand by the belief that 98% or more of bowlers with high averages don't take that next step out of vanity more so than any of the common excuses (travel expense, can't find a scratch league, just wanna have fun, etc...). I mean, I have no problem with good bowlers bowling in handicap leagues...have at it if thats what ya wanna do...but elite bowlers that are bowling over 200 every night shouldn't be able to complain about how they beat a team of new players and only lost because of handicap and how thats BS. Because it's equally BS that a team with 4-5 guys with 200 averages are playing no-tap or on some Monday Fun League.

At least bowling HAS a handicap format. Trust me, from experience playing ice hockey, in sports where you just have to rely on people being honest about their skill level...and joining the approriate league/division...HORRIBLE success rate. It got so bad I almost quit playing. I mean, you have college players playing in a beginner league over the summer??? Players that actually get scholarships to play hockey at a university...and instead of joining a "A-League", they join a "C-League". I've played in C-Leagues against college players, former junior level amateurs, former elite travel players, even an occasional former low-level (iron leagues) pros...it was rediculous.

Asian I play hockey also and I have to agree with you on that.

As far as my experience in bowling goes; the only time my team loses to a team getting a ton of pins is if a couple of us bowl under our average.

If everyone bowls around their average then it's a pretty good competetive match. Currently my team is pretty bad and we have a high handicap. Shoot I'm the captain with a 140 average, my GF has a 108 average and the other two team members are just at about 100. We're improving so our averages are going up every week and the handicap is going down. So it all evens it self out.

There will be games we win because of handicap but also games we lose.

Now if this was a hockey team in a summer league we'd lose every game because we'd be up against all the same things Asian mentioned in his post. I guess the conclusion is that sandbagging to win is human nature. (BTW no one on my team is sandbagging we're bad at bowling :))

[bowlerRob2]

i bowl better when i bowl against people with higher avgs

I second that! Last week I had to bowl against someone with a 89 average. At first that looks like a slam dunk until you look at her handicap. And you consider that with an average like that; she has no where to go but up up up.. And how does someone with an 89 average have a "bad game"? By having a 79 game? That large handicap feels like a mountain sometimes. But in that league, it's part of the fun and gives everyone equal footing. BTW, Hugh Miller is on our league and carrying an average in high 220's. If I bowl against him, there would be the chance he would have an "off game" down in the 180's or something.

But bowling god Michael, you roller of 300's should really consider a scratch league! :-)

[Aslan]

Asian I play hockey also and I have to agree with you on that.

Now if this was a hockey team in a summer league we'd lose every game because we'd be up against all the same things Asian mentioned in his post. I guess the conclusion is that sandbagging to win is human nature.

I think in hockey and softball and basketball…stuff like that…people want to win…so they look at the league they "belong in" and go one league lower. And that creates problems…especially in the bottom division. The place I used to skate at had 4 divisions.

Division I: Checking, Advanced players: defined as players who have played organized hockey at the college or junior level or a long career of organized hockey.
Division II: Non-Checking: Players with > 5 years organizational hockey experience.
Division III: Non-Checking: Players who have limited organization hockey background, but 1-5 years hockey background on teams/leagues.
Division IV: Non-Checking/Non-Slapshot: Reserved for beginner players with < 1 year experience. No players with organized playing experience High School level or higher.

So…what do you think the league make-up was? And realize this was in Michigan, the 2nd hottest area for hockey.

Division I: 4 teams
Division II: 6 teams
Division III: 27 teams
Division IV: 5 teams

In other words…nobody wanted to play check versus the best of the best…and many would have played Division IV…except they couldn't use a slapshot…so they all picked Division III. So now, you had a couple beginner teams that could barely skate (but weren't gonna play in a non-slapshot league)…and you got a couple Division I teams that wanted to try to go undefeated…and about 4-5 Division II teams that thought Division II was just a little too hard. So some games…we (a true Division III/II team) would play a close game…then we'd beat beginners 8-1…then we'd lose to a team 11-0.

Fortunately…the rink changed their policy and would re-seed teams after 5 weeks into "divisions within divisions"…so if a team was 5-0 with 49 goals and only 2 goals against…they'd be Div. IIIA…and the teams getting killed would be in Div.IIID…etc...

[MICHAEL]

I second that! Last week I had to bowl against someone with a 89 average. At first that looks like a slam dunk until you look at her handicap. And you consider that with an average like that; she has no where to go but up up up.. And how does someone with an 89 average have a "bad game"? By having a 79 game? That large handicap feels like a mountain sometimes. But in that league, it's part of the fun and gives everyone equal footing. BTW, Hugh Miller is on our league and carrying an average in high 220's. If I bowl against him, there would be the chance he would have an "off game" down in the 180's or something.

But bowling god Michael, you roller of 300's should really consider a scratch league! :-)

I have my moments Rob2, lol... not sure I am ready for scratch! Remember, I just got into bowling a few years back, after retirement!!! I don't need my Ego destroyed at this point in time.. LOL Of my 3 leagues, I am only getting 5 pins on one, and none on the other two! damn,,,, maybe I should!!

You know its hard to find a scratch league period!! I wonder if in other parts of the country they have more choice in regards to scratch leagues???

[bowlerRob2]

You know its hard to find a scratch league period!! I wonder if in other parts of the country they have more choice in regards to scratch leagues???

Not much choice up here either although I know of one nearby. However I figure that when I am ready for that step, I can do tournaments. Should be plenty of scratch tourneys around your area.

[Hampe]

I haven't really noticed any problems like that, Iceman (playing bad against certain teams). It actually seems like the opposite most times. Sometimes it feels like our opponents that week are bowling their best series of the season. I hate when that happens.

As for the guy who was openly joking about sandbagging.....that's about as despicable as it gets (as far as bowling goes). If I were the world emperor of bowling, anybody who openly bragged or joked about sandbagging would receive a 3 year ban.....lifetime for second offences! You can't stop sandbagging, since it's easy to miss a spare or just throw a washout while looking like you're trying, but I can't stand people who chuck the ball in the gutter and then brag/joke about it.....those people should have their balls sawn in half!

[Aslan]

Not much choice up here either although I know of one nearby. However I figure that when I am ready for that step, I can do tournaments. Should be plenty of scratch tourneys around your area.

Theres a decent amount of them in Cali Iceman...so you can always move back out here!

The scratch leagues are usually smaller...but I bowl next to one on Thursdays and there are at least 3 advertisements in the bowling news paper each month. If you want to find one...just page through that little newspaper/magazine they have in the alley...you'd be surprised.

And I'm not saying anyone MUST join a scratch league. I'm just saying if your average is over 190 (PBA entry level)...and you are frustrated getting beat by bowlers with 105 averages and a ton of handicap pins...BOWL IN A SCRATCH LEAGUE. Those people with the 105 averages are EXACTLY WHERE THEY BELONG...it's YOU that is in a league you probably don't belong in. It's not THEM...they have nowhere else to go except no-tap.

If it was up to me...and it was my alley (which would be mecha cool):

- All new players and players with an average lower than 121 are in a no-tap league.
- Players with averages between 121-189 are placed in a sanctioned handicap league.
- All players with averages of 190 or greater are placed in a sanctioned scratch league.

Problem solved. And your placement is based on your USBC average...which if you played in other than no-tap last season...is on record. So if you want to waste a season sandbagging your way back into a handicap league...go ahead. You'll just be bumped back into scratch the next time you want to join a league. Because your previous average at THIS ALLEY takes precedence over your last USBC average at another alley (if it was within the last 5 years).

Player A- beginner...105 average. Plays no-tap for one 20-week league...finishes with a no-tap 140 average. Gets moved to handicap/sanctioned league...ends up with a 126 average...stays in that league for 1,2, 3 years...ends year 3 with a 190 average...gets bumped to scratch league...struggles and finishes with a 164 average...bumped back down to handicap/sanctioned....etc... If some player wants to play no tap...they have to waste 20 weeks sandbagging in handicap league. If a guy (lets say Iceman) doesn't like being the 12th best bowler in the scratch league...he either has to improve or has to sandbag for 20 weeks in scratch league to get a 189 average and get bumped back to handicap league.

It's a great system...similar to Euro soccer...you're too good...bump to elite...you aren't good enough...bump back down to a level. You could even do it where the bottom 10% of the top two leagues get bumped down while the top 10% get bumped up..which would hinder sandbaggers even more.

The ONLY downside to this idea...is it messes with "teams". If you have 4 coworkers and join a 5-person team together...and love playing together...and two people score a 105 and 106, two throw 126 averages, and their one good player ends the season at 189...the team has to split up...with the 2 worst players staying no-tap...and the other 3 moving up to handicap. And if they're okay with that...and that one good player ends the season with a 201 average...now the team gets split up again.

But I still like the concept. You wanna bowl with your buddy in handicap league...it don't take much practice to bowl 122 no-tap. A 6-year old rolling the ball down the center of the lane can score 120 no-tap. And it keeps handicaps reasonable...because there's not gonna be many 100 average bowlers in the handicap league. A 178 average could get you zero pins...while the worst bowler may have a 124 average and get at most 47 pins. The main "objections" would come from those guys currently sporting 200-220 averages in handicap leagues...that don't want to go from seeing their name at the top of the scoring sheet each week to suddenly facing tough competion.

[e-tank]

^ i like that idea

I think our team handicap in league is about 80. Gf has 40, me and my friend have 20 and the last guy has 0. Nothing i hate more than a high handicap team that has a good series and we get destroyed. I dont think im good enough for scratch yet but i do want to look into a sport shot league and tournaments

[Aslan]

In handicap, good teams still have the advantage because they're SO good.

We played a team Friday where 3 guys were carrying averages around 200…another guy had an average around 200, but he didn't show up so their sub was some guy that had a 150 average and the 5th player was his wife who had a little over 110. Well, long story short…they all bowled their averages except their sub, who was rolling in the 200s. Why? Because he set his handicap earlier in the year while recovering from arm surgery.

Our team beat them the first game…barely. They beat us the 2nd game barely. Then they beat us the third time, barely. And they ended up winning the overall by 2 PINS! Each match was like within +/-18 pins total. They had one of their 200 average guys slumping in the first 2 games…or we'd have gotten beat for certain all 4. So good players still have the advantage..they're more consistent. Their " off" game is a 182 or a "bad" game of 158. For higher handicap bowlers…their "off" game could be a 116.

[mjoyce]

Asian, To combat the relegaton consequences of the teams of friends who end up with one good player. Who would have to move and break the team up you could also allow no sanctioned handicapped leagues at your alley.

The league I'm in currently is non-sanctioned and it's a ton of fun. We have 6 teams and it's a good time everyone knows everyone and that really helps the sandbagging.

Sure I know that means you don't get the benefits of sanctions leagues (not sure what these are) But if the main reason this hypothetical team is bowling together is for fun and to hang out as friends then they might not care about the benefits.

But in theory the relegation/promotion for a sactionend league makes senes to discourage sandbagging.

One question, in most of these sacntioned leagues are teams not picked? In my league all of the captains(6 highest averages) get together before the season and pick up teams in a draft. Makes it fun by allowing everyone to play with new people. Most first year people get added to the friend that brought them in's team but everyone else is fair game to go between teams.

So that could be another option. Make it a draft type league then you're not splitting up teams per say you're just moving the bowlers with high averages up to the scratch league and the people that fall down to the handicap league.

[Aslan]

The league I'm in currently is non-sanctioned and it's a ton of fun. We have 6 teams and it's a good time everyone knows everyone and that really helps the sandbagging.

It's an "L"…I'm not asian.

Even though it seems silly…that actually won't help. I'm in a non-sanctioned league on Thursdays and the sandbagging is worse in that league than the sanctioned one….by FAR! I think in sanctioned leagues…sandbagging doesn't help much in terms of winning cash. And most players in those leagues are after the cash, the 300 games, and the average. They aren't gonna sandbag as much because the leagues usually sweep somewhere and you win money playing there….it's not dependent on where your team finishes.

But non-sanctioned leagues…it's only about team finish…many leagues don't even give any prize except 1st place….so there's nothing to play for except that.

[e-tank]

It's an "L"…I'm not asian.

Even though it seems silly…that actually won't help. I'm in a non-sanctioned league on Thursdays and the sandbagging is worse in that league than the sanctioned one….by FAR! I think in sanctioned leagues…sandbagging doesn't help much in terms of winning cash. And most players in those leagues are after the cash, the 300 games, and the average. They aren't gonna sandbag as much because the leagues usually sweep somewhere and you win money playing there….it's not dependent on where your team finishes.

But non-sanctioned leagues…it's only about team finish…many leagues don't even give any prize except 1st place….so there's nothing to play for except that.

im in a non sanction league that has a first place trophy as well as a sweeper. Most teams play for first but theres a few select players that bag all season so they can win the sweeper. I wish people would just be honest and play but what can ya do...

[Aslan]

im in a non sanction league that has a first place trophy as well as a sweeper. Most teams play for first but theres a few select players that bag all season so they can win the sweeper. I wish people would just be honest and play but what can ya do...

My Friday league people are pretty honest. I mean, a few here or there that might have missed a few more spares on week 1 than usual. But in a sanctioned league…a lot of these guys/gals don't want their USBC average to be 210 then 160 then 206 then 147. Most of these folks have a ton of fun in that league…but most consider themselves serious bowlers. In the non-sanctioned, non-sweep league…it's supposed t be more about having fun each week…but for many people, "fun" is defined as starting with a 121 average and the bowling a 175 average.

I don't know how "sweepers" work. I've tried to ask my teammates but they just say a bunch of nonsense about bowling for money…but not how it WORKS. One of my teammates is asian so I can't understand her very well to begin with. And the other chick is young and kinda "flippy"…so she doesn't get too in depth into anything.

[MICHAEL]

My Friday league people are pretty honest. I mean, a few here or there that might have missed a few more spares on week 1 than usual. But in a sanctioned league…a lot of these guys/gals don't want their USBC average to be 210 then 160 then 206 then 147. Most of these folks have a ton of fun in that league…but most consider themselves serious bowlers. In the non-sanctioned, non-sweep league…it's supposed t be more about having fun each week…but for many people, "fun" is defined as starting with a 121 average and the bowling a 175 average.

I don't know how "sweepers" work. I've tried to ask my teammates but they just say a bunch of nonsense about bowling for money…but not how it WORKS. One of my teammates is asian so I can't understand her very well to begin with. And the other chick is young and kinda "flippy"…so she doesn't get too in depth into anything.

I have only been bowling for 3 years, but I have no idea what a (sweeper) is?

[e-tank]

My Friday league people are pretty honest. I mean, a few here or there that might have missed a few more spares on week 1 than usual. But in a sanctioned league…a lot of these guys/gals don't want their USBC average to be 210 then 160 then 206 then 147. Most of these folks have a ton of fun in that league…but most consider themselves serious bowlers. In the non-sanctioned, non-sweep league…it's supposed t be more about having fun each week…but for many people, "fun" is defined as starting with a 121 average and the bowling a 175 average.

I don't know how "sweepers" work. I've tried to ask my teammates but they just say a bunch of nonsense about bowling for money…but not how it WORKS. One of my teammates is asian so I can't understand her very well to begin with. And the other chick is young and kinda "flippy"…so she doesn't get too in depth into anything.

in my league we go to vegas and bowl in a "tournament". What it really is, is we bowl 3 games league style and our league secretary calculates highest mens singles series/games, womens singles series/game, doubles series/game etc. We get money based off those different categories. My gf won $100 last season for bowling the highest game and the lowest game lol. I got $8 for i dont even know what, she just announced my name. The guy who won it all was a 150avg who bags all season. He knows exactly how to bowl with his style to strike but in league he purposely takes errant shots or lofts over gutter just to do it and only clamps down if his team has a chance to win.

[mjoyce]

AsLan sorry about that.

That stinks that people sandbag in the non sanctioned league. Sandbaggers suck. They way the payouts work in our league is that most of the teams win something before the final tournament based on end of season standings. Ovbiously with first place taking the most. Then there is a pot for a win or go home tournament with the top team or top two getting paid out (I forget...bowl drunk) Since there are only 6 teams this works out to just be a three game series. But it's pretty fun. And that way anyone has a shot at winning the final. Last year my team came in second in the tournament and I think 4th overall but we bowled well on the last night.

[MICHAEL]

What is a sweehttp://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/bmust67/sweeper.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/bmust67/media/sweeper.jpg.html)per in bowling??????

[MICHAEL]

What is a sweehttp://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/bmust67/sweeper.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/bmust67/media/sweeper.jpg.html)per in bowling??????

What is a sweeper in bowling....

[vdubtx]

Sweepers are the last week of the bowling season when monies are handed out dependent on how your league Prize Fund is set up. Bowling that night can be anything from 9 pin no tap, to a handicap or scratch tournament for a certain amount of money as prizes. Typically no points are awarded that week for team bowling, it is usually an individual event.

In my Thursday league we typically do a Men's and Women's handicap tourney type set up. We also do cross overs where we pair up men/women that want to use their scores in another side tournament. Single events pay in $5 per person, cross overs pay in $ 1 each and the high scores at end of night pay out for the top however many spots the money allows.

[MICHAEL]

Sweepers are the last week of the bowling season when monies are handed out dependent on how your league Prize Fund is set up. Bowling that night can be anything from 9 pin no tap, to a handicap or scratch tournament for a certain amount of money as prizes. Typically no points are awarded that week for team bowling, it is usually an individual event.


In my Thursday league we typically do a Men's and Women's handicap tourney type set up. We also do cross overs where we pair up men/women that want to use their scores in another side tournament. Single events pay in $5 per person, cross overs pay in $ 1 each and the high scores at end of night pay out for the top however many spots the money allows.


In my short time bowling league, I have never had a sweeper where money, or cash was involved.... but I have had on last night a few times 9 pin tap, but no prizes, or cash!! (:(

[vdubtx]

In my short time bowling league, I have never had a sweeper where money, or cash was involved.... but I have had on last night a few times 9 pin tap, but no prizes, or cash!! (:(

All dependent on what the league decides in meeting to begin the year. Maybe bring it up in your next meeting to spice things up a bit at end of year. They are kind of fun. I typically bowl horribly during them and someone with a low average is the one that always wins the top prizes each year. If a female wants to cross over bowl with me I will, but since handicap comes into play, the individual events I don't enter.

[Aslan]

From what I understand…in our league, the first place team gets a trophy and some cash. All other cash (the majority of it) is given out at a (sweeper) tournament in Vegas in March. From what I gathered…I think it's a singles tournament where players are grouped based on average. So like, the top 5 players bowl against each other, the next 5, etc… And there might be men's/women's divisions. And I think they give out money for overall high score, high handicap score, etc… I've never been to Vegas nor bowled in a tourney…so I'm looking forward to it.

[e-tank]

From what I understand…in our league, the first place team gets a trophy and some cash. All other cash (the majority of it) is given out at a (sweeper) tournament in Vegas in March. From what I gathered…I think it's a singles tournament where players are grouped based on average. So like, the top 5 players bowl against each other, the next 5, etc… And there might be men's/women's divisions. And I think they give out money for overall high score, high handicap score, etc… I've never been to Vegas nor bowled in a tourney…so I'm looking forward to it.

never been to vegas?!? Its pretty much the city of everything you like to do!

On a side note, the few alleys ive been to in vegas are VERY nice

[Aslan]

never been to vegas?!? Its pretty much the city of everything you like to do!

That's the problem…I may never leave.

[sprocket]

Speaking of sweepers, I ran an five game Sunday morning "sweeper" for about 7 years. Everyone established a sweeper average after 10 games, which was two tournaments. Then the average was adjusted every tournament just like a league. You could not have a sweeper average that was more than ten pins less than your last year's high league average. Until you established a sweeper average, your last year's high league average was what was used, with the exception that if you averaged more than ten pins higher than you last year's high league average in your FIRST tournament then your average would be re-rated up for the second tournament. I believe I split the difference so if you came to your first tournament with a 190 league average and then average 220 in the sweeper, you would be re-rated to 205 for the second tournament. To make things even more complicated, if you did not have a league average from last year then you could use this year's league average with at least 21 games as long as you had a current standing sheet.

I'm not done. If your current league average after 21 games was higher than your last year's high league average then you were expected to use your current average, until your sweeper average was established although that one was hard for me to prove. I looked up everyone's average in the average books and the tournament was sanctioned. You also had to have your USBC membership card or someway of proving you were a sanctioned bowler.

Now why did I have such a complex system which was so labor intensive for me as the director? TO AVOID SANDBAGGING! Someone might have been able to sandbag once and get away with it BUT NEVER TWICE. It also tended to have many of the same people bowling year after year. There was one guy who sandbagged the first tournament one year and tried to do the same thing the next year. He had a 140 book average and the second time around I didn't wait one tournament, I re-rated him to 190 on the spot. He bowled anyway and of course got nothing and I never saw him again.

[MICHAEL]

Now why did I have such a complex system which was so labor intensive for me as the director? TO AVOID SANDBAGGING! Someone might have been able to sandbag once and get away with it BUT NEVER TWICE. It also tended to have many of the same people bowling year after year. There was one guy who sandbagged the first tournament one year and tried to do the same thing the next year. He had a 140 book average and the second time around I didn't wait one tournament, I re-rated him to 190 on the spot. He bowled anyway and of course got nothing and I never saw him again.[/QUOTE]

NICE,,, great idea!! Nothing lower then a sandbagger, they dishonor the sport!!!