What constitutes a "clean" game - (n00b Question)

[zdawg]

New to this site (and bowling), I just joined a league 8 weeks ago, and learned how to throw a hook a few weeks after that. I've been getting noticeable improvement in my game on a weekly basis (easy to do when you're starting out), and today I'm happy to announce I hit a 200 game for the first time (and a 185 and 191 lol).

My question is this, on the 200 game every frame leading up to the 10th was either spare or strike, and the 10th frame was then a spare. With my last ball of the game I hit either 8 or 9 pins (can't remember exactly). SO, for a true "clean" game does the last ball you throw have to be a strike for it not to count as an open frame? Sorry for the beginner question, but I am a beginner :D

[e-tank]

Congrats on your 200 game!

I would assume the last ball would be a strike to close out the frame. Thats still a feat though

[zdawg]

Congrats on your 200 game!

I would assume the last ball would be a strike to close out the frame. Thats still a feat though

Thanks, and yeah that's what I thought it was - guess next time I bowl 9 clean frames I'm gonna have to hit a turkey in the 10th :D. This forum looks to be a great source of information, I'm trying to integrate little bits and pieces into my game each week without overwhelming myself LOL.

[e-tank]

Thanks, and yeah that's what I thought it was - guess next time I bowl 9 clean frames I'm gonna have to hit a turkey in the 10th :D. This forum looks to be a great source of information, I'm trying to integrate little bits and pieces into my game each week without overwhelming myself LOL.

i hear you there. I started bowling a year ago and all the info can be quite overwhelming. My advice is to take it slow and work on your form. If you dont have a ball drilled to fit your hand, get one. And if you have any questions dont be afraid to post em!

Btw if dont mind me asking, what house do you bowl at in SD?

[zdawg]

i hear you there. I started bowling a year ago and all the info can be quite overwhelming. My advice is to take it slow and work on your form. If you dont have a ball drilled to fit your hand, get one. And if you have any questions dont be afraid to post em!

Btw if dont mind me asking, what house do you bowl at in SD?

Yep, just got a ball drilled for my hand 5 weeks ago (which is what prompted me to learn how to hook it), fingertip grips. It's a used Ebonite Cyclone (cost me like $70 with drilling), I still don't know much about balls but I figured I'd get something ok to learn with and once I've progressed a bit I'll invest in a newer, better ball. And its night and day better than the house balls that much is clear.

I've been bowling at Kearny Mesa Bowl for my league, its a sanctioned league one of my friends here talked me into joining his team (he's a former avid bowler that recently started back up) - I just moved to San Diego from the east coast (DC) earlier this year, and he's pushing to get me involved in more social activites here in sunny SD.

That said, I've been down to the Brunswick lanes in Chula Vista (I live downtown), and the lanes up in Mira Mesa, but I recently found out its much cheaper for me to practice at Kearny Mesa Bowl since I get a league discount (I think its like $1.75/game).

[J Anderson]

Thanks, and yeah that's what I thought it was - guess next time I bowl 9 clean frames I'm gonna have to hit a turkey in the 10th :D. This forum looks to be a great source of information, I'm trying to integrate little bits and pieces into my game each week without overwhelming myself LOL.

E-Tank said he assumes the fill ball needs to be a strike. He is not quoting any league rules or official definitions.

I bowl in a sport league that gives bonus points in the standings for clean games. Our definition of clean says that if you make a spare in the tenth, you only need to keep the ball on the lane for the fill. While some have suggested that you should need to get 5 or more pins on the fill, it's never been brought to a vote. If you get a strike on the first two balls in the tenth, you again only need to not foul and keep the ball on the lane. The tricky part is if the first ball in the tenth is a strike and the second isn't, you must make the spare on the third ball. While I usually manage to blow any chance at a clean game before the 5th frame, I've had a couple make it to that first strike in the tenth only to leave a big nasty split on the next ball.

[zdawg]

E-Tank said he assumes the fill ball needs to be a strike. He is not quoting any league rules or official definitions.

I bowl in a sport league that gives bonus points in the standings for clean games. Our definition of clean says that if you make a spare in the tenth, you only need to keep the ball on the lane for the fill. While some have suggested that you should need to get 5 or more pins on the fill, it's never been brought to a vote. If you get a strike on the first two balls in the tenth, you again only need to not foul and keep the ball on the lane. The tricky part is if the first ball in the tenth is a strike and the second isn't, you must make the spare on the third ball. While I usually manage to blow any chance at a clean game before the 5th frame, I've had a couple make it to that first strike in the tenth only to leave a big nasty split on the next ball.

Interesting, I suppose it does depend on interpretation. I actually didn't even know that they had leagues that gave bonuses for clean games, then again I just learned what a tap league is about an hour ago. I just wanted to know if I can brag about bowling a "clean" game, guess I'm gonna have to bowl one where I close out that 10th frame so there is no question :D

Actually, my next goal is to break 200 and continue to develop consistency with my approach and delivery.

[vdubtx]

Interesting, I suppose it does depend on interpretation. I actually didn't even know that they had leagues that gave bonuses for clean games, then again I just learned what a tap league is about an hour ago. I just wanted to know if I can brag about bowling a "clean" game, guess I'm gonna have to bowl one where I close out that 10th frame so there is no question :D

Actually, my next goal is to break 200 and continue to develop consistency with my approach and delivery.

Congrats and welcome to Bowlingboards. :cool:

Yes, you can brag about a clean game. JAnderson has the clean game explanation perfectly. If you spare in 10th any ball after if called fill and does not count as an open if you don't strike. Strike and then not pick up spare after ruins a clean game. :)

Keep bowling and practicing. Looks like you have a good start if you are already hitting 200. :D

[Mudpuppy]

Clean game = no opens. Last ball of the tenth would not constitute an open because you don't have the chance to pick up the spare. That is assuming you got a spare in the tenth or 2 strikes.

[zdawg]

Clean game = no opens. Last ball of the tenth would not constitute an open because you don't have the chance to pick up the spare. That is assuming you got a spare in the tenth or 2 strikes.

Cool, and yeah that's exactly what happened, I got a spare and then with the final ball 9 pins. Now I just need to be able to do this more consistently

[bowlerRob2]

Welcome to bowling and that is a pretty good question. Believe it or not, clean games are a prize for me even though I am presently averaging in the 190's. I am very proud every time I can get a clean game. I can get a 230 game that might have had an open and it's not as good as a 190 clean game in my book. Anyways, congrads on the 200 and the clean game!

[Mike White]

E-Tank said he assumes the fill ball needs to be a strike. He is not quoting any league rules or official definitions.

I bowl in a sport league that gives bonus points in the standings for clean games. Our definition of clean says that if you make a spare in the tenth, you only need to keep the ball on the lane for the fill. While some have suggested that you should need to get 5 or more pins on the fill, it's never been brought to a vote. If you get a strike on the first two balls in the tenth, you again only need to not foul and keep the ball on the lane. The tricky part is if the first ball in the tenth is a strike and the second isn't, you must make the spare on the third ball. While I usually manage to blow any chance at a clean game before the 5th frame, I've had a couple make it to that first strike in the tenth only to leave a big nasty split on the next ball.

Our Association gives awards for clean games, and clean series.
The criteria they use only requires a mark (spare or strike) in each frame.
If you has a spare in the 10th, then threw a gutter for the count, it would still qualify.
Likewise, if you had a strike in the 10th, then a split, and miss, you still had the 10th mark, and would qualify.

As "easy" as scores have become, I read, in the lifetime of the ABC/USBC national tourney, only 3 people have had 90 clean frames in their Team, Doubles and Singles events.

[Aslan]

Actually, this was a good question. Because my only clean game I did the same thing. I think I got 2 strikes and then 8 pins. I figured it was a "clean" game because I marked all the way through. I was only throwing the 2nd then 3rd ball…because I marked in the 10th. Good to know thats sort of the official interpretation since I've only had that ONE clean game.:(

[MICHAEL]

I had a clean game a week ago Monday,,, an x in every box,, LOL.... 300!! That's called Super Clean!!! LOL My second in 6 months... whooopie... all at the age of 64/65!! Birthday between them! (:) Just started bowing at the age of 63!! Lot of catching up to do!!

[Mike White]

I had a clean game a week ago Monday,,, an x in every box,, LOL.... 300!! That's called Super Clean!!! LOL My second in 6 months... whooopie... all at the age of 64/65!! Birthday between them! (:) Just started bowing at the age of 63!! Lot of catching up to do!!

A super clean game would be the all spare game. That takes a lot of work.
First off you're having one of those nights where you can't control the first ball well enough to strike.
Yet you have enough control on the second ball to cover all the spares.

Current lane conditions help you to make strikes, and hinder your spare shooting.

[MICHAEL]

A super clean game would be the all spare game. That takes a lot of work.
First off you're having one of those nights where you can't control the first ball well enough to strike.
Yet you have enough control on the second ball to cover all the spares.

Current lane conditions help you to make strikes, and hinder your spare shooting.

MIke you make it sound like its harder to have an all spare game, and pick them up then all strikes.. LOL,,, I have had many,,, many clean games, with all marks,,, spares and strikes. Also who would want a whole spare game, lol (not a great score involved with that game)

Also you say with todays lane conditions its much harder to spare then strike,,, well it depends on what you leave? 7, 10 sure... lol.... but a 10 pin, single pin leave of ANY kind should be simple with a plastic ball! With a plastic ball you take the oil out of the equation, several other spares are quit easy with plastic, regardless of oil conditons IMHO.

I think if someone where to check it out,,, much easier to have a CLEAN game then a 300.... How many times have I had a 290/289s/298 ect ect... clean but no 300... (:)

A CLEAN GAME IS SOMEHTING TO BE PROUD OF, BUT, no awards for do it..... ice

Picking up spares is VERY IMPORTANT to one having a great game, and series.... But a Super Clean Game will always be to me mike,,, A 300 game, over any all spare, or no open frames game!

[Mudpuppy]

Welcome to bowling and that is a pretty good question. Believe it or not, clean games are a prize for me even though I am presently averaging in the 190's. I am very proud every time I can get a clean game. I can get a 230 game that might have had an open and it's not as good as a 190 clean game in my book. Anyways, congrads on the 200 and the clean game!

I disagree - I would much prefer the 230 game even if it had open(s). No one in any alley I have ever bowled in around Southeast Michigan has really cared one iota about a clean game. It isn't discussed, it isn't recognized and it is certainly not rewarded.

[Aslan]

MIke you make it sound like its harder to have an all spare game, and pick them up then all strikes.. LOL,,, I have had many,,, many clean games, with all marks,,, spares and strikes. Also who would want a whole spare game, lol (not a great score involved with that game)


I don't think Mike meant it's less of an accomplishment to get a 300 than a clean all spares game. I think he meant that in some ways…a 300 game takes a good deal of luck as well as skill. Spares take skill. You just can't get around that. The only luck that comes into play with spares is BAD luck (splits). Getting all spares…I'd say is 80% skill/20% luck. The "luck" is not getting splits. With strikes…you could have 2-3 Brooklyns…maybe a couple where that 10 or 7 pin "barely" fell.

Think of it like this…a professional bowler has thrown how many clean games? 100s? 1000s? How many 300 games per pro bowler? 30? 50? 60? Is it because pro bowlers have such a high level of skill, and thats why they get so many clean games? Or is it that 300 games take SOooo much "skill" that even pro bowlers can rarely do it? I think it's 95% the first one…clean games are true indicator of skill (which is why I only have one). A big, fancy ball doesn't help you pick up spares. Easy lane conditions don't help you pick up spares. You MUST have skill. But all the skill in the world (professional level even) won't help you much with 300 games. Because you need luck too. They don't give watches or rings for clean games…but thats just because clean games are commonplace for highly skilled bowlers. They give awards for 300 games because it's almost like winning a lottery!

[MICHAEL]

I don't think Mike meant it's less of an accomplishment to get a 300 than a clean all spares game. I think he meant that in some ways…a 300 game takes a good deal of luck as well as skill. Spares take skill. You just can't get around that. The only luck that comes into play with spares is BAD luck (splits). Getting all spares…I'd say is 80% skill/20% luck. The "luck" is not getting splits. With strikes…you could have 2-3 Brooklyns…maybe a couple where that 10 or 7 pin "barely" fell.

Think of it like this…a professional bowler has thrown how many clean games? 100s? 1000s? How many 300 games per pro bowler? 30? 50? 60? Is it because pro bowlers have such a high level of skill, and thats why they get so many clean games? Or is it that 300 games take SOooo much "skill" that even pro bowlers can rarely do it? I think it's 95% the first one…clean games are true indicator of skill (which is why I only have one). A big, fancy ball doesn't help you pick up spares. Easy lane conditions don't help you pick up spares. You MUST have skill. But all the skill in the world (professional level even) won't help you much with 300 games. Because you need luck too. They don't give watches or rings for clean games…but thats just because clean games are commonplace for highly skilled bowlers. They give awards for 300 games because it's almost like winning a lottery!

If you throw a CLEAN in the pocket 300 game, its skill! If you throw a clean spare game its skill usually unless you pick a spare up that was done in such a way that it was not even what you planned!

I have had many,,, many clean games, but only 2 so far 300s! Both are an accomplishment, but a clean game could be one like I had with nine 10 pins, easy pick up for me, only one pin, so not that big of a deal in regards to accomplishment.

On the 300, I had to make moves to adjust for the change on the fly, and hope that my moves would keep it a clean in the pocket game, which is was!

A clean game is something to be very proud of, but much harder to throw a 300,,, I think odds are out there somewhere, and I am sure its not even close!

Even more hard then a 300, in my opinion is a 800 series,,, I was 20 pins away from that even with my 300!! I had a 300 216, loss carry many good pocket hits, but a few 10's and 7s! then a 264..... for a 780!

It takes a butt load of skill to bowl a 800!!! I want one BAD!!!

[Aslan]

I still contend that luck is more necessary for 300 games. Obviously it's skill…but you're telling me…you hit the pocket every time and one time leave a 10-pin…that it's because you're just a little less "skilled"??

My nemesis is the "sleeper spares". God I hate hitting it square…seeing a couple pins scatter, and leave that damn sleeper.

[MICHAEL]

I still contend that luck is more necessary for 300 games. Obviously it's skill…but you're telling me…you hit the pocket every time and one time leave a 10-pin…that it's because you're just a little less "skilled"


Yes... that's what I am tell you....LOL

I have been a little less skilled on a number of occasions.... but when I am in a skilled mode, watch out...... Good Things Happen without lady luck!! :o

[vdubtx]

I am going to have to agree with ICEMAN here. Rolling 12 pocket strikes for a 300 is definitely skill due to adjustments needed as a game goes on as he mentioned. If you leave a 10 pin, there is a reason why you leave it. You have to watch the pins and ball when it impacts to be able to adjust for that and it takes skill and experience to know what to adjust for. 300 games are without a doubt more skill than luck.

But, with that said, luck can sometimes come into play. I am certainly not saying that any of my 5 300 games did not have luck involved. I can honestly say that 2 had some luck involved as I remember that maybe 1 ball in each of those games either went brooklyn or had really good carry through the nose.

[Mike White]

I am going to have to agree with ICEMAN here. Rolling 12 pocket strikes for a 300 is definitely skill due to adjustments needed as a game goes on as he mentioned. If you leave a 10 pin, there is a reason why you leave it. You have to watch the pins and ball when it impacts to be able to adjust for that and it takes skill and experience to know what to adjust for. 300 games are without a doubt more skill than luck.

But, with that said, luck can sometimes come into play. I am certainly not saying that any of my 5 300 games did not have luck involved. I can honestly say that 2 had some luck involved as I remember that maybe 1 ball in each of those games either went brooklyn or had really good carry through the nose.


I agree with the bold line, however, there are times when you throw the ball the same way that could/should leave the 10 pin, and luck causes it to fall.
A messenger, 6 pin standing in the gutter leans against the 10, numerous patterns of getting lucky exist.
But those shots are forgotten.

[MICHAEL]

I agree with the bold line, however, there are times when you throw the ball the same way that could/should leave the 10 pin, and luck causes it to fall.
A messenger, 6 pin standing in the gutter leans against the 10, numerous patterns of getting lucky exist.
But those shots are forgotten.

I agree with the bold also!! I use to think, and say "YOU GOT robbed"!! But the more I learn about bowling the more I know there is always a reason! This is no lie!! At strike and Spare, with Jason Last year, I threw 9 consecutive 10 pin leave!! then 3 strikes in the 10th frame! They looked good, but oviously they were off a bite!!! LOL.... In my case moving back one foot, changed the arc, which gave me a better angle, walla!!! For the fist 9 throws I was told to stay where I was, and keep hitting the same target, it will turn into strikes,,, "they are good hits"! LOL

Yes almost all sports a degree of luck is involved! But then life is that way too... ICEMAN's Deep thought For The DAY!!

[Aslan]

I don't know. With the newer, stronger ball technologies…I've seen at least a few guys that could easily bowl in the 200s and maybe even get lucky and get a 300 game. But they also have nights where they struggle to break 150 because they can't pick up spares.

I think I'm in the camp that if I can go out there and bowl a clean game every time…the 300 games will hopefully, with luck, come. But if I go out and bowl a 300 tomorrow and then am back to bowling in the 130s because I'm missing spares…while YES….I will order the ring…I'm not sure I'd be as confident going into a tourney next weekend.

[strikedaddy]

I have witnessed quite a few 300 games but none of them were perfect. I'm not saying that its never been done...Im just saying there is an element of luck involved and I've never seen one thrown in person. I've seen guys trip the 4/7, late falls or messengers on the 10, Brooklyn strikes, etc. Most guys will tell you they were nervous on a few of the pitches on their 300 but it carried. In the end that's all that matters. I know personally I have been cost a 300 on a pocket 7/10 split, stone 8, stone 9, multiple damn 10 pins...all quality shots...just wasn't my day. BTW...Congrats Michael on your 300s! Hope you have many more to come!

[sprocket]

I've throw one sanctioned 300, another one in a non-sanctioned tournament and about a dozen in practice. I had ONE where I hit my mark every shot and every ball was pretty much a carbon copy of the one before. I also had 289 on league where I threw 10 perfect balls and then left a solid 8.

I personally really can't respect a person's skill if they can't consistently make spares. Right now that includes my own game. I certainly don't think someone is a great bowler just because they bowled 300. I've seen too many by guys whose games are very lacking in either their consistency, versatility, or spare making ability. Some guys have figured out how to really rev it up and can throw pins around like crazy when they get hot, but overall they can't consistently hit the broad side of a barn. I've seen others including a couple on my league who are very good spare shooters and hit their mark consistently but their carry is usually poor and they are creating zero area. I keep thinking that if they could find a ball that matched up better or make just slight changes in their speed or release, their averages would be so much higher.

[MICHAEL]

I agree 100 percent that spare shooting is KEY!! But in order to get the high scores, lets face it, you have to string a bunch of strikes! lol,,! I agree, I have seen some bowlers that throw incredible revs, and many strike balls, but can't hit a 10 pin to save their butt!! LOL

Why not figure it out!!! I know I did, and my average is going up now! I just started bowing 3 years ago, and this is my the beginning of my third year bowling sanctioned... At my age,,,, I can't complain,,, almost got that 800 last week, when I bowled the 300, and 780 series... (:)

To be in my opinion a high roller, HOT DOG,,, you must be great at both ends of the Strike/Spare game.

Just as some luck is needed for strikes, believe me spares fall into that same category! Both require SKILL, and a degree of luck sometimes... (:)

[mike_thomas93]

I say spare consistency is the answer to a clean game. If you have a strong spare game, clean games are bound to happen more. Because anyone can strike, it's just that some people have trouble with their spare game. That's why you always hear that spares are critical.

[Mudpuppy]

I don't know. With the newer, stronger ball technologies…I've seen at least a few guys that could easily bowl in the 200s and maybe even get lucky and get a 300 game. But they also have nights where they struggle to break 150 because they can't pick up spares.

I think I'm in the camp that if I can go out there and bowl a clean game every time…the 300 games will hopefully, with luck, come. But if I go out and bowl a 300 tomorrow and then am back to bowling in the 130s because I'm missing spares…while YES….I will order the ring…I'm not sure I'd be as confident going into a tourney next weekend.

Think how much the chicks will dig the ring when you get it though. They won't care you average 130. Maybe you could get an 800 series coat off ebay as well.

[bowlerRob2]

Spare shooting requires a different kind of consistency. The strike ball, you throw every time on the 1st ball so you should be getting pretty good at it after some time. On the other hand different spares require entirely different approaches, releases (sometimes) and balls. So I guess what I am saying is that in the course of a 3 game series, you get at least 30 shots at the strike pocket. That's a lot of practice every night. But you might only get 1 or 2 or 3 10 pins to shoot at. Or 1 or 2 7 pins, or a 1 dinner bucket or 1 sleeper, etc... all of which require different shots. That is why I place such a high value on spare shooting (not necessary to devalue strike shooting).

[Aslan]

Think how much the chicks will dig the ring when you get it though. They won't care you average 130. Maybe you could get an 800 series coat off ebay as well.

I don't know. I think chicks stopped digging jewelry on men back in the late 80s.

[Mudpuppy]

I don't know. I think chicks stopped digging jewelry on men back in the late 80s.

So they wouldn't dig my mr. t starter kit of fake 14k gold necklaces there in cali? I just finished shining them up for my trip there in February too.

[vdubtx]

So they wouldn't dig my mr. t starter kit of fake 14k gold necklaces there in cali? I just finished shining them up for my trip there in February too.

Not for 14k they wouldn't. Now, with 18k+ we are talking about 4 ladies on each arm. :cool:

[Aslan]

I have to admit...after coming ONE FRAME away from a clean game THREE times yesterday while practicing...I have to agree with Iceman on the point that clean games do not = high scores. I mean, I had three near clean games and scored like 189-177-184.

The 189 REALLY annoyed me...because I picked up a 5-10 split in the 5th or 6th frame to preserve my clean game...then missed a 3-8 sleeper in the 9th. Since I always seem to hit just the front or just the back of sleepers...I tried to throw my spare ball straight at them and missed about 5 inches left of center...went right by both of them.

The first 6 of 9 games I just couldn't seem to strike, so I got a LOT of spare practice in!

[Perrin]

string Strikes for high scores
Spares are for average.


Noone in their right mind would tell you to try to get a spare every frame, but being able to cover the spares is what gives you a better average.

X 9-....... 10 frames is a 140
X 9/....... 10 frames is a 200

5 spares - 60 pins

also of interest is that first scenario is also true if you replace all the strikes with Spares..... so unless you string them together a spare can very well be as good as a strike

[MICHAEL]

string Strikes for high scores
Spares are for average.


Noone in their right mind would tell you to try to get a spare every frame, but being able to cover the spares is what gives you a better average.

X 9-....... 10 frames is a 140
X 9/....... 10 frames is a 200

5 spares - 60 pins

also of interest is that first scenario is also true if you replace all the strikes with Spares..... so unless you string them together a spare can very well be as good as a strike

WHAT???? :confused: LOL,,,,, aaaaaa, what are you saying?? I am lost (:) with the math!!

[Perrin]

WHAT???? :confused: LOL,,,,, aaaaaa, what are you saying?? I am lost (:) with the math!!

lol sorry
if you throw a strike followed by an open (9- in my example) for the whole game it's only a 140 game (each 2 frames is worth 28 pins)
if you throw a strike followed by a spare (9/ in the example) for the entire game you end with a 200 game. (each 2 frames is worth 40 pins)

so converting those 5 (9-) to 5 (9/) is worth 60 pins This is an extreme example but even for lower average bowlers converting a spare vs having an open is usually worth at least 6 extra pins per spare.

If in the first game you replace the strikes with spares (so 9 spare followed by 9 open the whole game) it would be the same score
on the other hand If you string all 5 strikes together followed by the 5 opens you would shoot 183.

I tell the new bowlers I bowl with that the quickest way from 100 average to 140 is to focus on hitting the pocket. To get from 140 to 180 is focusing on spare shooting. above that you start to consider adjustments to get better carry on your strike ball.

[vdubtx]

Yup, each spare missed is a minimum loss of 10 pins each frame.

[Aslan]

Yup, each spare missed is a minimum loss of 10 pins each frame.

What I hate is when I get a spare, then throw a - /. That gutter with the first throw cost me not only 10 pins from the frame before it...but the 2 frames of pins after it had I thrown the strike to begin with. DOHT!

[vdubtx]

What I hate is when I get a spare, then throw a - /. That gutter with the first throw cost me not only 10 pins from the frame before it...but the 2 frames of pins after it had I thrown the strike to begin with. DOHT!

Yup! Frustrates me to no end on my Thursday night league. One of my team mates is an older dude and he does this quite often.

[MICHAEL]

Yup! Frustrates me to no end on my Thursday night league. One of my team mates is an older dude and he does this quite often.

WHAT's with the term ,,, ( older dude/gutter ball ) I know one older dude, that is probably older then him that throws lots of strikes, :p Older dudes are a lot like YOUNG Dudes,,, they come in many different flavors!!!

[Aslan]

Yup! Frustrates me to no end on my Thursday night league. One of my team mates is an older dude and he does this quite often.

Mine usually (85%) is a result of powdering my thumb between frames and if I powder it a little too much...falls off my hand during release and goes directly in the right gutter. From a scoing standpoint...IMMENSELY frustrating. To make it even more frustrating, I had a -/9 frame in my 2nd frame of an otherwise clean game on Monday. So that gutter cost me the 9 pins in frame 1, the 8 pins in frame 3, AND my 2nd ever clean game!! One mistake, 17 pins and a clean game.

And I couldn't even cuss because there was a little kid birthday party 2 lanes to the right. :mad:

[vdubtx]

WHAT's with the term ,,, ( older dude/gutter ball )

True they do come in different flavors! This dude is of the school that he won't learn new tricks. Have bowled with him for many years and is a fun guy. Having fun out weighs the frustration he causes some times. :cool:

[Mudpuppy]

Never worry about the pins you lost only the ones that you can still get

[MICHAEL]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/joycecleanbowlinggame_zps3d12ff10.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/joycecleanbowlinggame_zps3d12ff10.jpg.html)

Nice job Baby!!!! You are my reason for living, and bowling!! Iceman, or know around here as Iron Mike. (iron worker for almost 30 years)