My hook went away

[zdawg]

I think I know the cause, but figured I'd ask and I know it's a guessing game since I don't have any actual video of my practice session today.

Quick history, I met up with Mark Baker two days ago for a lesson, and he changed a lot regarding my approach (wants me to go faster), backswing much higher, and a lot of other stuff.

So today, I bowled 8 games or so and basically could not get the ball to hook AT ALL. If I jerked it or muscled it, I could hit a few Brooklyns but other than that I might as well have been using a plastic ball. I was getting revolutions as opposed to when I do throw the ball straight to pick up the 10 pin, so I know I was using my regular release - in fact Mark complimented me on my release and revs during the lesson. For a while I thought I was going crazy, but figure it must have something to do with the changes we made. The lane I was on was fresh too, so it should be more or less the same conditions as when I bowl in my league at night since they apply oil just before our league starts.

My guess is my timing is completely off now since we changed just about everything I do prior to the release. Faster feet, much larger backswing = my timing is off I suspect - a good thing is that I'm sliding more with almost zero drift which is another problem I had prior to my lesson. I'm guessing I might start rev'ng (not sure what the proper term is) the ball earlier than I should be due to the increased backswing.

Just wondering if this makes sense, I want to try to get some ideas before I go back tomorrow for more practice.

Also, for those that are able to record themselves when bowling, how do you do it? Do you use a special camera, and/or where do you set it up? I usually practice alone so I would have to be able to set something up and I don't think my iPhone 4 is capable of performing the task.

Ok so this post was longer than I intended, thanks if you've made it this far and I would greatly appreciate any and all feedback.

[zdawg]

One other thing I should add, Mark wanted me to get the ball speed up (which is why we changed a bunch of stuff), and I averaged about 4-5 mph more today than I normally do. So I went from 14-15 mph to about 19-20 mph, this might also be contributing to my new revolving straight shot ;)

[Aslan]

1) If you're bowling on moderate/heavy oil synthetic lanes...increasing your ball speed will = a straighter shot. I used to throw 19-20mph on low-oil and then when I tried bowling synthetics/heavier oil I've had to slow my speed to 14-15mph or the ball just skids past any break point. But I'm a lower rev player throwing a symetric ball...so how you throw and your type of ball will have an effect as well. Pros throw incredibly fast...and get very nice hook...but they're throwing balls designed and drilled for maximum hook.

2) I either bowl alone or with teammates that don't want to tape me so in order to tape myself bowling I will set up a shoe on a chair or ball return or wherever you can get a good angle...then put my phone in the shoe...get it aimed at my approach...then hit "record". It's how I recorded my last session. Takes a little more time...but if you are kinda setting it up while waiting for the teammate in front of you to bowl...not too much of a delay.

[zdawg]

1) If you're bowling on moderate/heavy oil synthetic lanes...increasing your ball speed will = a straighter shot. I used to throw 19-20mph on low-oil and then when I tried bowling synthetics/heavier oil I've had to slow my speed to 14-15mph or the ball just skids past any break point. But I'm a lower rev player throwing a symetric ball...so how you throw and your type of ball will have an effect as well. Pros throw incredibly fast...and get very nice hook...but they're throwing balls designed and drilled for maximum hook.

2) I either bowl alone or with teammates that don't want to tape me so in order to tape myself bowling I will set up a shoe on a chair or ball return or wherever you can get a good angle...then put my phone in the shoe...get it aimed at my approach...then hit "record". It's how I recorded my last session. Takes a little more time...but if you are kinda setting it up while waiting for the teammate in front of you to bowl...not too much of a delay.

Thanks for the reply, I think I'll try slowing it down tomorrow just to see how that affects my hook. Since this is the same lane I've been bowling on for the last 10 weeks, and they use the same oil pattern the only factor that has changed is my approach and ball speed so that has to be the culprit.

Also I'll play around with the shoe/phone idea and see if I can capture some video, I think that will be very helpful moving forward

[noeymc]

ball speed will kill a hook thatd be my first answer

[zdawg]

ball speed will kill a hook thatd be my first answer

Thanks, yeah fortunately that should be easy to test tomorrow, I'll just use my old approach/speed and see how the ball reacts.

[Hammer]

What lane conditions do you bowl on dry, medium oil or heavy oil? What kind of ball are you using, plastic, urethane, resin or solid? Does it have a drilling for conventional or fingertip type ball? Do you keep your hand behind the ball up to the release? These things can dictate what kind of hook you will get. Plus going into the release you have to have your wrist straight or a little cupped. If your wrist breakes backwards during the release you will lose revs to make the ball hook.

[zdawg]

What lane conditions do you bowl on dry, medium oil or heavy oil? What kind of ball are you using, plastic, urethane, resin or solid? Does it have a drilling for conventional or fingertip type ball? Do you keep your hand behind the ball up to the release? These things can dictate what kind of hook you will get. Plus going into the release you have to have your wrist straight or a little cupped. If your wrist breakes backwards during the release you will lose revs to make the ball hook.

It's fairly heavy oil I believe, its a resin ball albeit more of an entry level ball (Ebonite Cyclone). It's drilled for fingertip, I do keep my hand behind the ball up to the release.

Thing is, I'm 10 weeks into my league and bowling in general (not counting rare visits to the alley when I was younger), the first two weeks I used house balls and bowled straight, third week I got my ball and have been hooking it ever since. One night league bowling a week, and lately 3-4 days practice plus the coaching session with Mark Baker day before yesterday. Today was the first time this has ever happened, although 10 weeks is a small sample size. It was really really odd, this is my league bowling alley which I average 3-4 visits weekly so the lane conditions, etc. have not changed.

I normally have my wrist fairly straight or maybe even a little cupped, however with this completely new approach and backswing my wrist might not be as firm as before. Thing is, the ball was getting revs, just not hooking where it normally would.

[Perrin]

an incresed of 4-5 miles an hour on a Cyclone I would expect to reduce hook by 5-10 boards(with my release). so if you had say 8 boards of hook to start with it is entirely possbile that you are now just throwing it though the breakpoint.


Did you try moving outside and throwing it down say the 5 board and see if it picks up quicker and turns the corner?

[e-tank]

1) If you're bowling on moderate/heavy oil synthetic lanes...increasing your ball speed will = a straighter shot. I used to throw 19-20mph on low-oil and then when I tried bowling synthetics/heavier oil I've had to slow my speed to 14-15mph or the ball just skids past any break point. But I'm a lower rev player throwing a symetric ball...so how you throw and your type of ball will have an effect as well. Pros throw incredibly fast...and get very nice hook...but they're throwing balls designed and drilled for maximum hook.

your ball goes straight because youre very speed dominant which is why if theres anything other than dry lane your ball goes straight. Slowing down your speed to somewhat match your rev rate is something that you should do as according to kegel, only a slight dominance in either rev or speed produces the best carry. Most pros dont throw the strongest balls, if you want to hook like a pro you need a release like a pro.

[Aslan]

your ball goes straight because youre very speed dominant which is why if theres anything other than dry lane your ball goes straight. Slowing down your speed to somewhat match your rev rate is something that you should do as according to kegel, only a slight dominance in either rev or speed produces the best carry. Most pros dont throw the strongest balls, if you want to hook like a pro you need a release like a pro.

I would question the validity of that statement. Last time I checked, most of the Storm pros were throwing MarvelS and SYNCs not Frantics and Tropical Breezes. I don't think the Brunswick pros are throwing Slingshots or Strike Kings as their main strike ball. And pro drill layouts are usually far different than what a standard pro shop would drill for a casual or even house league bowler.

Obviously pros are pros because of their approach, release, and consistency as well as their ability to read and adapt to lane conditions/changes very quickly. But they also throw better equipment (for the most part). Even if for no other reason than marketing. I think Storm would be pissed if they're trying to sell the new BYTE for $174.99 and trying to generate "buzz"...and their top sponsored pros were all throwing $75 Tropical Breezes because they all loved the scent of cinnamon cupcakes. :rolleyes:

[e-tank]

I would question the validity of that statement. Last time I checked, most of the Storm pros were throwing MarvelS and SYNCs not Frantics and Tropical Breezes. I don't think the Brunswick pros are throwing Slingshots or Strike Kings as their main strike ball. And pro drill layouts are usually far different than what a standard pro shop would drill for a casual or even house league bowler.

Obviously pros are pros because of their approach, release, and consistency as well as their ability to read and adapt to lane conditions/changes very quickly. But they also throw better equipment (for the most part). Even if for no other reason than marketing. I think Storm would be pissed if they're trying to sell the new BYTE for $174.99 and trying to generate "buzz"...and their top sponsored pros were all throwing $75 Tropical Breezes because they all loved the scent of cinnamon cupcakes. :rolleyes:

for the most part i see hyroad pearls, wreckers, iq pealrs and at strongest, defiant soul.

from Brunswick mostly meanstreaks. Saw an aura once.

The reason those hi end balls are what every body wants is because they think the ball is going to give them that pro style hook or they just buy it because its the most expensive(high price = more strikes right?)

[Mudpuppy]

I like cinnamon cupcakes

[Aslan]

I like cinnamon cupcakes

Well...it's "unique and special" bowlers like you that have helped Storm become the bowler's #1 company for bowling balls!!

[Aslan]

for the most part i see hyroad pearls, wreckers, iq pealrs and at strongest, defiant soul.

from Brunswick mostly meanstreaks. Saw an aura once.

The reason those hi end balls are what every body wants is because they think the ball is going to give them that pro style hook or they just buy it because its the most expensive(high price = more strikes right?)

With the exception of the Hy Road...those are all high end balls. And the Hy Road is a 1/2 level below high end.

I think sometimes people buy the newest ball for the same reason they buy the newest iPhone...to say, "Look at me!! Look at me!!" And while I employ a more economical strategy of buying older models of things (bowling balls, cars, electronics) at discounted prices...I "will" admit I have the mystic aura and Storm BYTE on my "wish list"...even I am not TOTALLY immune from good marketing.

[zdawg]

an incresed of 4-5 miles an hour on a Cyclone I would expect to reduce hook by 5-10 boards(with my release). so if you had say 8 boards of hook to start with it is entirely possbile that you are now just throwing it though the breakpoint.


Did you try moving outside and throwing it down say the 5 board and see if it picks up quicker and turns the corner?

I did not, but will give that a shot today.

[Bunny]

I think it's finding a balance between what works best for you and the "ideal." Every bowler's style is unique.

Also, being able to figure out which ball, or speed, or release, or track etc., matches up best with the lane condition you're dealing with at the time. :confused:

[noeymc]

i never got a brand new ball i wait for the price drop 100 dollars and get it then if i want all bowling balls are the same only difference is a name change lol

[zdawg]

Ok, so my practice session today was a tad bit better for about half a game, and then I threw a few good frames near the end when I realized that I'm releasing the ball too early - the way I figured this out was that I noticed all of the sudden, on half my throws the ball was bouncing off the beginning of the alley - it was coming off my thumb cleanly, so the only logical explanation I can think of is that the ball is being released way too early (as compared to my old style). This would make sense, when I totally focused on not releasing early I could hook the ball more like I used to, also a couple of times I released late and despite having a bunch of unintended loft it hooked like crazy.

SO, now I have another aspect to the whole new approach/footwork/etc, lol maybe I should bowl old style for my league though - I'll have to mention to our captain, as the last two practice sessions I've actually bowled several games worse than the first week and I suspect my average is gonna drop drastically.

[noeymc]

it always gets worse before it gets better in bowling

[zdawg]

it always gets worse before it gets better in bowling

Yep, its been my experience with pretty much every athletic endeavor I've been involved with since childhood. I'm gonna try to get in as much practice as possible over the next couple days/weeks, I suspect its just a matter of adjusting to all the changes Mark made in my game, once I get the timing down and in a rythym as he put it, I should be able to take it up a notch...at least that's the goal :cool:

[Aslan]

it always gets worse before it gets better in bowling

Oh GOOD!! Then next week I'm gonna bowl a 800 Series…because this week was ………..!!!!!!!

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x445/willhlee/poop.gif

[Mudpuppy]

With the exception of the Hy Road...those are all high end balls. And the Hy Road is a 1/2 level below high end.

I think sometimes people buy the newest ball for the same reason they buy the newest iPhone...to say, "Look at me!! Look at me!!" And while I employ a more economical strategy of buying older models of things (bowling balls, cars, electronics) at discounted prices...I "will" admit I have the mystic aura and Storm BYTE on my "wish list"...even I am not TOTALLY immune from good marketing.

I thought you said you had like 20 undrilled balls in your Mom's basement? You have a lifetime supply.

Signed,

A unique and special bowler :)