Are THS patterns really that easy?

[Hammer]

I have been bowling on THS patterns since 1987. There are folks here that say a THS pattern is too easy. Not for me they aren't. I have never rolled a 300 game on one yet. I had all strikes but a spare in the 8th frame once. When I was practicing two times a week when I was in my 50s the highest average I had was a 191. I would bowl a few series that were higher then 600 a few times and most of my scratch series were 500 and up. Somehow I would manage those stinker games like a 128 or games in the 140s. Sometimes a three game set on league night would have my highest game be like a 161 and the two below that would be like a 156 and a 145. If the THS pattern is that easy why do I have games like that? Where are my 300 games that never came about. At my House I don't see every person bowling there with a 200 or higher average. I do see a lot of averages below 170. I guess that our House just has a lot of lousy bowlers in it me included. Well, I am not making or intend to make bowling a career so I am not concerned about not having a 240 average on a THS pattern.

Plus being on this FORUM a few months it sounds like a THS pattern isn't easy for everyone. There are evidently quite a few folks here that need to bowl on a THS pattern. That shouldn't bother anyone here. Some folks want to reach a certain level and that's it. Some folks don't have the time or money to get so good that they have to move up to a sport pattern or higher. If they are not that good on a THS pattern why would they move up to a harder pattern? Everyone has their own level that they seek and are happy to be there. That doesn't make them someone to look down on by better bowlers. If it is too easy for you then move up to harder patterns. I am happy to stay on my THS girlie pattern.
Darn! Another series below 500. Stupid THS pattern.

[e-tank]

From what ive read, bowling on sport patterns makes you a better bowling because the margin for error is much smaller than on ths. It improves your accuracy and consistency and well as versatility.

[vdubtx]

If a THS pattern was too easy for some bowlers, those bowlers would constantly be posting about their 300's and 800 series shot on their league nights every week.

Sorry, but anyone saying the THS is too easy has a big ego and shouldn't put down or look down on bowlers who don't have a 220+ average.

I, for one, enjoy the challenge bowling in different centers(yes both THS), as even though they use roughly the same pattern, the volume of oil is different from one to the other. But, I also like the challenge of a harder pattern like at Nationals or in other tournaments.

[Aslan]

I think it varies alley to alley. Statistically, averages are up as are 300 games due to a combination of ball technology and lane conditions. So, it's factually based.

However, I think things vary a bit lane to lane. I have a 136 average on Thursdays and a 164 average on Fridays (different alleys).

On Thursdays, I think the high score is about 267-268 and even the good scratch bowlers rarely break 230. I haven't seen one guy even get close to a 300 game yet. It's a heavy oil synthetic lane...and you can't miss by much either way.

On Fridays, There's been someone who almost bowled a 300 EVERY night. 290, 299, 289, 278, 299. And in that league...each team has 2-3 guys with averages in the low 200s or 180+. There are 2-3 teams that don't have those type of players (like mine)...but even the teams without big time 200 average guys...they have 3-4 players averaging in the 150s or 160s.

In that alley the biggest difference is you can "misss" by 1-4 boards...and you're "okay". You miss left...the ball will still hit the headpin or at worst brooklyn. If you miss right...it's so dry on the outside...the ball will cut back into the headpin. So it's very difficult to NOT hit the headpin. Which translates into a strike or at worst a 7-9 pin first ball. So if you can just avoid a split...and are a decent spare shooter...no problems.

House ball bowlers don't see a "huge" difference from one alley to the next because a plastic ball will be a straight ball at both alleys. And if you throw the plastic ball thumbless or 2-handed...controlling the hook on the drier lanes is just as difficult as it is to get it to work on the slicker lanes. But with a standard advanced-pro level reactive resin ball...much better scores at the 2nd alley than the 1st.

And the only guys where this is "reversed" are the guys with "BIG HOOK" balls that have trouble adapting to drier lanes (their balls break too sharply and hit left of the headpin) and struggle trying to find a place to throw it. The alley is still easier...but these guys are very stubborn about changing their approach to fit the lane so they keep trying to throw the same ball at the same target as they would on heavier oil and rather than "adjust" they just try switching balls or just stand around griping about it.

[J Anderson]

One of the troubles with talking about the Typical House Shot is that you would think from some of the posts about it, that there is a single THS pattern. Every center has its own THS and can vary a lot between the ones where there's barely enough oil to protect the lanes to ones that are one step away from leaving the bumpers up all the time.

Even if the shot really is an easy one, it doesn't help bowlers who don't throw a hook. It also doesn't help if you don't play it right. Don't ask me what that way is, because when you compare my Sport average with my THS average, I'm either 8 pins better than I should be on the sport or 8 pins worse than I should be on the THS.

Going by the USBC conversion table, any one who averages 225 or better on the THS will average about the same on sport patterns.

[circlecity]

Going by the USBC conversion table, any one who averages 225 or better on the THS will average about the same on sport patterns.

That sounds interesting. do you have a link to something online I could look at?

thx

[MICHAEL]

If a THS pattern was too easy for some bowlers, those bowlers would constantly be posting about their 300's and 800 series shot on their league nights every week.

Sorry, but anyone saying the THS is too easy has a big ego and shouldn't put down or look down on bowlers who don't have a 220+ average.

I, for one, enjoy the challenge bowling in different centers(yes both THS), as even though they use roughly the same pattern, the volume of oil is different from one to the other. But, I also like the challenge of a harder pattern like at Nationals or in other tournaments.

Hey, I know your not talking about ICEMAN, I don't even have a 220 yet, but I have thrown two 300's in less then 6 months. Must be pretty easy,, I am not a spring chicken, but am tough as nails!! LOL

Sure lots of bowlers don't have that 220 average on Typical House pattern, but those same bowlers would be lost on sports, believe me,, I had a blast last summer bowing a Saturday evening sports pattern for cash! Its so Fricken different,,, you have to lean to bowl each Sports pattern differently, were as the house pattern is almost always that same old, same old week after week,,,:rolleyes:

Averages, including 300's and 800's would be few and far between if the USBC decided to make it a rule that each week you change the oil pattern on all sanctioned leagues,,, then the esteem with having a great series, and even a 300, 800 would have true value!

What would be wrong with that??? Its what the Pro's do?? You could still have the Typical house pattern for non sanctioned leagues.

Maybe then they would start giving out rings for 300s and 800s each time you bowl one, because their would be far less!

As I have said, it would be like bowling golf the same hole over, and over ,, and over,,, where as sports patterns is like playing the full 18 holes!!

[vdubtx]

That sounds interesting. do you have a link to something online I could look at?

thx

Here you go. This chart shows the Sport Average and what adjusted average would be.

LINK (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/sportbowling/pdfs/201213/SportAverageAdjustChart.pdf)

[Aslan]

, it would be like bowling golf the same hole over, and over ,, and over,,, where as sports patterns is like playing the full 18 holes!!

Iceman...you and I are in lock step on this...and I'm thinking your best bud Jamau is not....but I think the better analogy is a guy who plays golf at the same municipal par 3 course. It's not just playing "one hole" versus an entire course. It's a guy who is a little over par on his municipal course where the longest hole is a par 4 399...and then he goes to a real course on an outing and his friends think "he must be having a bad day...I've seen him golf before and he's almost a par golfer". Because he KNOWS that course...he KNOWS where to hit it and where not to. He knows exactly which club to play where.

I agree that a THS shot isn't the same from alley to alley...I gave my example. If you think it's the same...find an alley with wooden lanes (there aren't many) and go try to throw your big hook ball and watch what happens. I'm telling you...I've SEEN it. Guys who have the top of the line equipment and average 190 on synthetics struggling to hit 180 on low oil wood lanes. And vice versa...I went out and started bowling synthetics...heavier oil...I went from rolling 180, 160, 190....to rolling 106, 97, 115, 118. Meanwhile...the guy bowling against me just kinda takes a few small steps toward the foul line...just "sets" the ball down with some spin...throws a 237.

Like I proposed before...in my opinion, the best solution is to make sanctioned bowling like Euro soccer. I hate soccer...but their league system is very fair.

My proposal:

- Every new bowler (never sanctioned) starts out in a non-sanctioned handicap league. THS patterns.
- After one league, they can move into a sanctioned handicap league if their house average is greater than 125. THS patterns.
- Once in sanctioned (handicap) league play, they play and get better...THS patterns until a time when they carry a 179+ average at which time they are automatically bumbed to a sanctioned league on SPORT patterns. The sport patterns can vary but are essentially the USBC red, white, blue, open, etc..
- Once they reach an average of 200...they are moved into a scratch league on sport patterns.

That proposal keeps everything fair. No more 220 average players "slummin it" playin no-tap or in some entry level non-sanctioned league. No more good players whining that "the handicap is killing them". And 300 games...would actually mean MORE because if you roll one, it's on a sport pattern...OR you rolled one carrying a < 179 average (which would truly be special and rare). And finally...it helps players gain the confidence to take it to the next level. I mean, if you're already playing scratch on sport patterns...why NOT enter a regional tournament?? Why NOT take that next step?

And you could still have all the variety you have now in terms of leagues...each level would have a cheaper/for fun league, a sweeps league, maybe a woman's or senior's league. But they'd have that variety at each level where there's demand. The only "downside" to this idea is if you have a buddy you want to bowl with...and he's not so good...but you are...then you're screwed. You might be able to make an exemption for those within 5-10 pins of the cutoff...or maybe allow players to move UP a league (but not down)....I don't know. But the point is...the overall point is...for leagues to truly be fair and fun and competitive...you have to develop a strategy to move the better players up in levels...because they are unlikely to move themselves up due to ego.

[dnhoffman]

Sorry, but anyone saying the THS is too easy has a big ego and shouldn't put down or look down on bowlers who don't have a 220+ average.


I think this statement about sums up this, and many other recent threads around here lately... Bravo.

[tr33frog]

The lanes I bowl at might have a house shot, but it would be damn shocking if they can keep the same for 3 weeks. It normally isn't even just a little different, it is a complete different shot. Down and in vs cross ally different, not just a few boards here or there. Keeps me on my toes I guess.

[Hammer]

One of the troubles with talking about the Typical House Shot is that you would think from some of the posts about it, that there is a single THS pattern. Every center has its own THS and can vary a lot between the ones where there's barely enough oil to protect the lanes to ones that are one step away from leaving the bumpers up all the time.

Even if the shot really is an easy one, it doesn't help bowlers who don't throw a hook. It also doesn't help if you don't play it right. Don't ask me what that way is, because when you compare my Sport average with my THS average, I'm either 8 pins better than I should be on the sport or 8 pins worse than I should be on the THS.

Going by the USBC conversion table, any one who averages 225 or better on the THS will average about the same on sport patterns.

Hey J.A., I agree with you. Our house has synthetic lanes that they oil. In our House I noticed that everytime we bowl on league night-
they oil right before we bowl-the lanes act differently each Saturday. Sometimes that slightly dry lane I hope is there isn't. I use to just bring my Blue Hammer urethane ball to league night. Now just in case I bring my Raw Hammer Anger with me in case I need more grab.
Just this past Saturday I started with my Raw Hammer Anger ball. By the end of the second game I had to switch to my Blue Hammer for the first and second shot each frame. I did this because the Anger started to be too hard to zero in on the pocket. The lanes ended up being just right for my Blue Hammer. I did use the Anger though to pick up spares that had pins from the center to the right. I am left handed. With the Anger in the first two games I had to put the arch of my right foot on at least board 26 or 27 to not over shoot the head pin. I had a shot that got away from me on the first ball and the Anger hit like board four and came back to the pocket. YIKES!

[sprocket]

Go ahead and flame me but the the great majority of typical house shots really ARE that easy and the ones that aren't, aren't typical. Those that refuse to believe it probably have the ego problem. Here's the hard truth: 98% of us just really aren't that good. Most of us are actually quite lousy. Do you seriously think it is easy to hit a narrow target 60 feet away with the proper roll and angle to strike? It's VERY VERY hard! The ONLY thing that makes it easy is heavily crowned lanes and steroid balls that help take advantage of it. The balls are actually a distant second though; the blocked lanes is what makes the shot so easy.

Have you ever tried bowling on the US open pattern that is flat all the way across? You will SWEAR the lanes are a reverse block with way more oil on the outside than in the center but they are not! When you get three off the right corner it's because that's how far you missed! The same is true when you think you pulled it just a little and get three off the left corner!

Guess what else? Sport patterns are blocked too! There is more oil in the center on sport patterns, just isn't nearly as severe as THS's. ONLY when the oil is flat gutter to gutter do you truly see just how difficult bowling really is.

Just think of how spoiled we have become! I'll say it again; those pins are a long ways away! You are trying to hit this narrow little zone time and time again with exactly the same rotation and speed and angle at the pocket. IT'S NOT EASY. Only superb athletes can do it consistently and the huge majority of us don't even come close to falling into that category.

[bowl1820]

While blocking lanes certain ways can and do help make bowling easier, That is not the biggest factor in making it "Easy".

It's that you bowl on the same condition week after week.

You could put any "Hard" shot out, at first the scores will plunge. But if you leave it out there week after week, the scores will start going backup as everyone gets use to it.

They seen that in the PBA when the animal patterns first came out, the scores plunged but as the weeks went on the scores started rising right back up again.

[Stormed1]

The big reason house patterns are "easy" is the big puddle and the dry outsides. You have miss right (recovery) and tug left (hold).Many of your 220+ THS bowlers die on a sport pattern where you have a 2 board area vs a 10 board AREA.

[Aslan]

I must say…I kinda agree with dnhoff…ughh…nope…couldn't get it out. But I also kinda agree with Bowl1820 AND sprocket.

The bottom line is…it's easier. Everyone knows this. It's well documented. It's been studied by the USBC. It's been well publicized. Averages are up…300s are up…it's not a "theory"…it's been factually proven.

As to "why"? Well…I'm a guy that watches a LOT of old bowling on the internet. And I don't think it's "patterns". Bowl1820 is right…you can adjust to patterns. I started out with a 118 average on heavy oil (which was new to me)…now I'm at 136…most improved bowler in the league. You can adjust…your targets, your approach, your release, your ball, your speed…all can be tweaked and then repeated. It's a factor…it's definitely a factor. BUT…it's really the balls more than anything.

If you're skeptical…watch old bowling matches from the 60s and early 70s. These guys throw straight shots at the headpin. There's some "flare" at the end (which they have to REALLY work for)…but they throw STRAIGHT SHOTS. Take it from someone that has recently been trying to bowl with a straight shot (on heavy oil synthetics)…you have NO ROOM for error. To hit that little "pocket/angle"…it's about TWICE as hard when you're going straight at it versus hooking it in. And you're not getting just strikes and 9 /. You're getting splits and all kinds of different spares. Just like way back then…leaving buckets…leaving weird spares. And that means, yup, you got it…ya gotta be able to shoot spares.

I see those old timers…shooting low 200s…just automatic at spare shooting. No fancy gloves or wrist supports or slugs or powders or textured tapes…just rubber or plastic balls. No asymmetric cores…or scented resins…not even colors.

Nowadays…I watch some young crankers and thumbless guys…and they hit 4-5 strikes…then leave a 10-pin and can't pick it up…then rattle off 4-5 more strikes. It's almost like picking up a spare is harder than getting a strike these days versus the reverse.

[MICHAEL]

Go ahead and flame me but the the great majority of typical house shots really ARE that easy and the ones that aren't, aren't typical. Those that refuse to believe it probably have the ego problem. Here's the hard truth: 98% of us just really aren't that good. Most of us are actually quite lousy. Do you seriously think it is easy to hit a narrow target 60 feet away with the proper roll and angle to strike? It's VERY VERY hard! The ONLY thing that makes it easy is heavily crowned lanes and steroid balls that help take advantage of it. The balls are actually a distant second though; the blocked lanes is what makes the shot so easy.

Have you ever tried bowling on the US open pattern that is flat all the way across? You will SWEAR the lanes are a reverse block with way more oil on the outside than in the center but they are not! When you get three off the right corner it's because that's how far you missed! The same is true when you think you pulled it just a little and get three off the left corner!

Guess what else? Sport patterns are blocked too! There is more oil in the center on sport patterns, just isn't nearly as severe as THS's. ONLY when the oil is flat gutter to gutter do you truly see just how difficult bowling really is.

Just think of how spoiled we have become! I'll say it again; those pins are a long ways away! You are trying to hit this narrow little zone time and time again with exactly the same rotation and speed and angle at the pocket. IT'S NOT EASY. Only superb athletes can do it consistently and the huge majority of us don't even come close to falling into that category.

I agree with you!! I am not sure on Sports patterns the average house block pattern bowler would do well with time! Why,,, because many don't hit, or even have to hit their make with any consistency!! You can be off a few boards to the left, and several boards to the right, (for right handers!!) I see it all the time!
On Sports Patterns, you have to have EVERYTHING RIGHT ON,,,, SPEED,,, ANGLE,,, MARK,,, Rev's,,, ect,, ect...

Its not a matter of learning the pattern,,, YOU HAVE TO BE A BETTER BOWLER to do well on them!! THEY ARE NOT NEARLY as forgiving!!!

Big difference, and I wish all sanctioned league in the Fricken World would make it a rule that ALL SANCTIONED LEAGUES MUST have a different USBC approved Sports Pattern EACH and EVERY WEEK!!

Hey I know my average would go down, but then so would all the HOT SHOTS that think they can compete with the big boys!! LOL

The way we bowl now is like the SPECIAL OLYMPICS.... Its fun, But the high scores are all about HOW FORGIVING THE House Pattern is!!

I have heard many times, (if you take away the easy House blocked Pattern, people will quit bowling, They need that 200 plus average to feel like a man/woman!! LOL

Again I disagree that one would be good at the US Open pattern just like the house blocked pattern,,, WHY DO I SAY THAT?? Because you have to be a hell of a lot more precise, and accurate, a quality that many of us don't have that much of!!

I wish we had sports league around here,,, at Our AMF's close to home we don't have that option!! And like Jason, I don't want to travel 20 miles to bowl!!

But I might,,, I am ready for the test!!

I never hear anyone on here posting scores from sports bowling?????? I guess its not that prevalent anywhere else!!

[dnhoffman]

I dunno... Time to bowl in 4 leagues a week but not to drive 15 minutes to a sport shot league when you're apparently so passionate about the subject and so discounting of those that bowl on a 41' house shot....

Sorry man but at this point you're all talk and balk, and no walk.

[MICHAEL]

I dunno... Time to bowl in 4 leagues a week but not to drive 15 minutes to a sport shot league when you're apparently so passionate about the subject and so discounting of those that bowl on a 41' house shot....

Sorry man but at this point you're all talk and balk, and no walk.

Ok,,, I bowl in leagues that are very close to where I live. Find me one Dnhoffman?? I have tried! And since I am very new to bowling, this is my third year, (I have not been in the sport that long), I am sure I will find that sports league, hopefully this summer.

A 300, and especially a 800 has meaning ,,, lol,,, but I just think its a different playing field then the pros, and it shouldn't be, in my opinion!

No reason for it to be the same pattern every week. I just think their should be more choice! I assume their is NO DEMAND, for sports Patterns, and that's the problem

Check it out in your area,,, how many sports league are available in your area???

I have always be a guy that Walks the Walk,,, sure at 65, I walk the walk somewhat slower now, but I still keep up pretty damn good!! ;)

[dnhoffman]

You crack me up man (no sarcasm, it enjoy a majority of your posts)!

There are actually several houses that have sport shots around saint louis, my home alley has two a week.

F it... What part of KC you live in? I'll find you one..

[MICHAEL]

You crack me up man (no sarcasm, it enjoy a majority of your posts)!

There are actually several houses that have sport shots around saint louis, my home alley has two a week.

F it... What part of KC you live in? I'll find you one..

I live close to KCI airport, North of Kansas City Mo. 64152 area code... If its to late to join one now, I would be very interested in doing one this spring!
I have 4 bowling lanes up close to my place,,, Two AMF's, Gladstone Bowl, and one in Liberty mo. I will look into it myself, I am ready to do it now!
Just a matter of finding one that works out, time, and distance.

Do you bowl sports ??? If so don't you find it challenging?? Putting up Iron/steel my whole life, and making it work/fit was a challenge..... I want bowling to be that same challenge.... I doubt I will be worth a sh#t bowling the sports patterns, at first, but I do hope to reach a level that makes me feel that pride that I have accomplished something. I need that in my life,,, I thrive on a challenge! later ... ice

[dnhoffman]

Looking for you now and man you're right, not easy to find... But I'm not giving up yet.

I am not bowling a sport league this season - wife just had our first baby and asked I cut a league night out and that was the one that had to go. Our sport league has two people per pair... And you move pairs during the night when you move opponents. This is where that "whoever finds it first, wins" comes from for me... Because it was always true in 1v1 for me (and I usually lost!)

Some people really like it, and I know some really good bowlers who just hate it. Some people like the game, wanna have fun, etc. and don't enjoy buying six different bowling balls that aren't much good except for specific patterns.

[dnhoffman]

I called the KC usbc office (after figuring out I'm an idiot for not doing that in the first place..) and there is only ONE sport shot league:

Wednesday night PBA Experience league at Ward Parkway Lanes
http://www.wardparkwaylanes.com

Ward Parkway Lanes
1523 W 89th St
Kansas City, MO 64114
On 89th St Between State Line and Ward Pkwy EB

27 minutes from AMF Northland where you usually bowl:

AMF Northland Lanes
217 NE Vivion Rd
Kansas City, MO 64118
1. Head east on NE Vivion Rd
354 ft
2. Take the 1st right onto N Oak Trafficway
0.1 mi
3. Take the ramp onto I-29 S/US-71 S
6.2 mi
4. Take exit 3 on the left for Interstate 70 E/U.S. 40 E/U.S. 71 S toward Saint Louis
0.3 mi
5. Merge onto I-70 E/US-71 S
0.3 mi
6. Take exit 2M to merge onto US-71 S/U.S. Rte 71 S
8.9 mi
7. Take exit 186 to merge onto E 85th St/Manchester Trfy toward Blue River Rd/Hickman Mills Dr
Continue to follow E 85th St
3.5 mi
8. Turn left onto Ward Pkwy
0.5 mi
9. Turn right onto W 89th St
Destination will be on the left

[noeymc]

seeing as i can miss 3-5 boards right or left and still hit the pocket you tell me?

[noeymc]

also there are some houses i hope i dont bowl my 300 just cuz how many are bowled there a house shot is only allowed so much oil yes it can very but when u walk into a house shot the first thing u do is go to your spot u go to at any house shot and make ur board adjustment off that as where sport shots are 100% harder right now i am avging 184 189 on house shots ( yes i know there droping ) but when i did a sport league over the summer ( not really a league u can show up when u want and bowl and you keep track of your own avg) i was hitting 150 somthing was about my normal avg and mostly cuz of spares u have about a half a board both ways and most people who say a house shot is to easy are normally board with it but you dont see them moving up to sport shots cuz there scard there 200 avg will drop to 160 170 its just the way we as people are now if its to hard we say forget this this is just my thought and yes a house shot is to easy

[sprocket]

As far as all the animal patterns in the PBA: Guess what? More oil in the center! That should surely prove just how tough bowling really is. Even those top pros don't bowl on flat oil.

Now I know it's not quite as cut and dry as that. Because the ball remove oil from the lane, the result can be an inverted block with more oil outside and it takes a real expert to be able to follow the shot further and further inside in the quest for a small amount of area while still getting the angle and roll needed to carry.

When it comes to the US open pattern, the pros can still create area by drying out a certain zone and then using that dry zone to create a little area. But always, always with the modern game it is the quest to find area that is the driving force! There simply is no flat shot that stays flat! The oil always gets removed from the lane.

Even if you go back to the old days, there STILL wasn't really a flat shot because the lanes actually got a "track" worn into the surface and that track helped guide the ball to the pocket. There also was the issue of carry down. Using the carry down is basically the opposite of what pros do today. In the past oil would get pushed down the lane and by moving right of that you could find area.

[Aslan]

AMF Northland Lanes
217 NE Vivion Rd
Kansas City, MO 64118
1. Head east on NE Vivion Rd
354 ft
2. Take the 1st right onto N Oak Trafficway
0.1 mi
3. Take the ramp onto I-29 S/US-71 S
6.2 mi
4. Take exit 3 on the left for Interstate 70 E/U.S. 40 E/U.S. 71 S toward Saint Louis
0.3 mi
5. Merge onto I-70 E/US-71 S
0.3 mi
6. Take exit 2M to merge onto US-71 S/U.S. Rte 71 S
8.9 mi
7. Take exit 186 to merge onto E 85th St/Manchester Trfy toward Blue River Rd/Hickman Mills Dr
Continue to follow E 85th St
3.5 mi
8. Turn left onto Ward Pkwy
0.5 mi
9. Turn right onto W 89th St
Destination will be on the left

And DNHOFF silences the ICEMAN!! That's difficult.

Now mapquest it from California...I wanna see if it's worth me driving to, to watch Iceman CRUSH the sports league competition. Actually...I want JaMau to roll on it too...and billf.

I should see if they have one in my area. I'd roll on it just for the experience and bragging rights...I'd be the worst bowler there....but I am devoid of ego and devoid of pride...thus, I could care less. As long as they have gin, tonic, and limes...I'm good.

[J Anderson]

If you're skeptical…watch old bowling matches from the 60s and early 70s. These guys throw straight shots at the headpin. There's some "flare" at the end (which they have to REALLY work for)…but they throw STRAIGHT SHOTS. Take it from someone that has recently been trying to bowl with a straight shot (on heavy oil synthetics)…you have NO ROOM for error. To hit that little "pocket/angle"…it's about TWICE as hard when you're going straight at it versus hooking it in.

I see those old timers…shooting low 200s…just automatic at spare shooting. No fancy gloves or wrist supports or slugs or powders or textured tapes…just rubber or plastic balls. No asymmetric cores…or scented resins…not even colors.

It's almost like picking up a spare is harder than getting a strike these days versus the reverse.

I beg to differ that it's harder to hit the pocket throwing straight than it is throwing a curve. If anything it should be harder since you can't aim directly for where you want the ball to wind up. No, what makes it more difficult is the angle at which the ball hits the pocket. The ideal angle is somewhere between 4 and 6 degrees. Hitting at that angle gives you more room for error, or in other words, a bigger pocket. Throwing straight, the most angle you can get would be about 1.4º. If you hit a little bit light the ball will deflect and miss the five. The least bit high and you're staring at a big split.

Most of the pros back in the 60s and 70s did curve the ball. It's just when you're used to balls that a ten year old could send from 20 out to five and hook back into the pocket, they just look like they're going straight. Back then to get the big hook you had to have a slower ball speed so you had a trade off between having a better angle and having enough momentum to take down all ten pins.

I may very well be that spares are harder. That THS pattern that helps your ball find the pocket even though you didn't hit your mark, it doesn't know that that you left a flat ten. That pattern, if your ball has any axis rotation and surface, is going to try to do the same thing to your spare shot that it did to the first ball.

[bowl1820]

As far as all the animal patterns in the PBA: Guess what? More oil in the center! That should surely prove just how tough bowling really is. Even those top pros don't bowl on flat oil.

Your right it's not that cut and dry. With the sport patterns you have to look at the ratios used. A THS has a ratio around 19:1, where as a Sport pattern has a ratio around 3:1.

Now 3:1 or less is pretty flat!



Now I know it's not quite as cut and dry as that. Because the ball remove oil from the lane, the result can be an inverted block with more oil outside and it takes a real expert to be able to follow the shot further and further inside in the quest for a small amount of area while still getting the angle and roll needed to carry.

Right there is why they don't put out true flat oil. Because while flat oil doesn't really give anyone a advantage, over time it will break down into a reverse block.

Also Years back the experts (before todays ball came out) said true gutter to gutter flat oil is too hard, that's why it's rarely put out.

[Aslan]

No, what makes it more difficult is the angle at which the ball hits the pocket. The ideal angle is somewhere between 4 and 6 degrees. Hitting at that angle gives you more room for error, or in other words, a bigger pocket. Throwing straight, the most angle you can get would be about 1.4º. If you hit a little bit light the ball will deflect and miss the five. The least bit high and you're staring at a big split.

Thats what I meant. It may well be easier to throw straight at it then to "hook it in"….but throwing straight you're throwing at a much smaller target. Usually throwing with a hook, I can strike 3-8 times. Throwing straight at it…maybe 1-2.

And thats not even the hardest part. The hardest part is…if you miss your mark. Throwing a hook on light oil I have 2-6 boards to play with on each side of the target. It may not strike…but it'll hit the headpin. On heavier oil throwing straight…if I miss by 1-2 boards right or left…I miss the headpin.

I know they hooked the ball. I call it a "flare" because it's a very small, gradual little hook. They weren't throwing across the middle or throwing up the 1-2 boards teetering along the gutter.

I compare it to a rifle versus a cannon.

With a rifle, if you change your sight just a little bit…you miss the target. Because the bullet is traveling straight at a high rate of speed.

With a cannon, the ball is "arcing" at the target. If you have the general spot and the correct amount of powder…it's gonna land generally in that spot. It may be a little more variable than the rifle…but you can be a little off and get the same effect. With that big hook…a righty REALLY has to miss to not hit that headpin. You can get mostly 3-pin and still bump the 1-pin. I've seen plenty miss it…and leave that weird 1-2-4-7-8-10 split looking thing…but you need a big hook that misses pretty far.

[Hampe]

It's hard to make the statement that THS has made the game "too" easy, since even "THS" (what I also call high-score or "autobahn" patterns) can vary enough while still being considered "typical". One of the leagues I play in (that I would consider high-score THS pattern) if you look at the 300 signs on the lanes in that center most of them were from the first half of the 00's decade when a different guy was dressing the lanes (one guy even had two in one evening!). Now there is a different guy dressing the lanes and we get maybe 1-2 300s a season, even though it's still mostly all the same guys still playing in the same center they've played in for 10+ years.

I think THS has only made the game easier, but not TOO easy. Besides hitting the 2-3 (or more) board window, you also have to be very consistent with your speed and release (among other things). Throwing 12 strikes in a row is still an accomplishment, and isn't something that everybody can do.

[MICHAEL]

It's hard to make the statement that THS has made the game "too" easy, since even "THS" (what I also call high-score or "autobahn" patterns) can vary enough while still being considered "typical". One of the leagues I play in (that I would consider high-score THS pattern) if you look at the 300 signs on the lanes in that center most of them were from the first half of the 00's decade when a different guy was dressing the lanes (one guy even had two in one evening!). Now there is a different guy dressing the lanes and we get maybe 1-2 300s a season, even though it's still mostly all the same guys still playing in the same center they've played in for 10+ years.

I think THS has only made the game easier, but not TOO easy. Besides hitting the 2-3 (or more) board window, you also have to be very consistent with your speed and release (among other things). Throwing 12 strikes in a row is still an accomplishment, and isn't something that everybody can do.

I agree with your thoughts 100 percent! A month ago when I bowled that solid in the pocket all 12 strike 300 game, The lanes must have been blocked perfect for me! I almost did two in one night,,, my third game (the 264) started out with 8 strikes, and that's with 10 people bowling the lanes, and a lot of oil movement! I really thought that was going to be my night for the 800, and then thoughts of two 300's, and a 816!! LOL..... 300, 216,,,, 300! That second game looks bad, but in reality I had a huge carry problem that game, (what looked like in pocket good hits, that just didn't carry)!

I moved back about a foot toward the end of the second game, and it started to carry again.

Thus the better angle into the pocket!

If the THS was too easy, we all would be spiting out 300's/800s left and right! Your absolutely right on in regards to many other factors are involved with a 300 on THS patterns!

1. The right ball

2. speed

3. amount of loft, or no loft

4. balance,

5. lift, or lack of lift with fingers

6. FOCUS,,, focus!!

7. The slide, or (lack of slide In my case lol)

8. Knowing for that NIGHT THE BEST way to attack that unique for those two lanes, oil pattern!
even side by side lanes can be very different! Thus nothing really typical about THS! Just similarities to a point!

Yes you are right on, and yes I kid a lot about how easy it is, ( and might rough up some feathers on the site lol), but its not Easy, but I stand by the statements about Sports Patterns!

I am really going to pursue the sports patterns now! Why,,, Hey I am 65 years old, and don't know how much time I have left!! LOL

I love the sport of bowling, almost as much as my wife, but in a different way!! It's a new challenge, and I have always welcomed that in my life! Working Towers, skyscrapers, building bridges,,, all were an hormonal rush for Ironman,,, (here in Kansas City they all call me Iron Man/ Iron Mike lol, at the bowling lanes).

Nothing easy about bowling that 300 on THS, and the main reason why there are not a hell of a lot more has to do with CARRY!! How many bowlers out there have had the ONE frame, or maybe even two, that prevented the 300 game!! Many times that one, or two frames LOOK LIKE A POCKET hit!

I think that's were the BAD LUCK comes to play,,, Maybe the pin sitter had a pin moving as it settled a fraction of an inch off, a pin that maybe has its weight distribution off, (like a tire out of balance)!

All of us,,, have had that carry problem,,, hell when I first started bowling a few years back, I had a 298 in the seniors league.... Last shot was pocket, maybe a little high but good enough many times,,, NO 300,,,, but I did get a trophy for that 298.... lol

A 300 ON THS IS SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF! IT TAKES SKILL, AND SOME LUCK! That's Icemans thoughts!http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/DSC00286_zps5cbc6791.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/DSC00286_zps5cbc6791.jpg.html)

[MICHAEL]

I dunno... Time to bowl in 4 leagues a week but not to drive 15 minutes to a sport shot league when you're apparently so passionate about the subject and so discounting of those that bowl on a 41' house shot....

Sorry man but at this point you're all talk and balk, and no walk.


Ouch!! LOL,,, Your telling me I am all talk??? Wow,,,, I have news for you my friend, I do walk the walk, not just talk the talk!! How many years have you been bowing dnohoffman? I just got started a few years ago,,, Step, by Step,,, that's how you put up a building, or tower in construction!

Sports Patterns will be my next step,,, too bad you don't live closer, we could do it together! I thrive on competition....! Yes my friend, I will be waling the walk, soon!

Its a matter of accessibility at this point! As others have mentioned, its not like there are that many options, if any around at this point in time.

Iron Mike will be bowling soon on a sports league! And I only bowl 3 leagues at the present time, not 4. I do sub on Saturday nights when Jason's team gives me a call!

[Hammer]

One of the troubles with talking about the Typical House Shot is that you would think from some of the posts about it, that there is a single THS pattern. Every center has its own THS and can vary a lot between the ones where there's barely enough oil to protect the lanes to ones that are one step away from leaving the bumpers up all the time.

Even if the shot really is an easy one, it doesn't help bowlers who don't throw a hook. It also doesn't help if you don't play it right. Don't ask me what that way is, because when you compare my Sport average with my THS average, I'm either 8 pins better than I should be on the sport or 8 pins worse than I should be on the THS.

Going by the USBC conversion table, any one who averages 225 or better on the THS will average about the same on sport patterns.

I agree with your reply. THS pattern is easy only if you know how to bowl on it. You still need the correct technique and skill to bowl good on it. There are folks on my league that have bowled for years on our THS pattern and still have 110 to 120 and 130 averages. So
easy for some and not for others. Some folks just don't have the skill for bowling to get better.