Ball Weights; 15lb vs. 16lb vs. 14lb

[Aslan]

This toipc has bounced in and out of various threads so I thought I'd start a new one for discussion.

The old addage (if thats an actual word) was that you should throw the heaviest ball you can comfortably handle (per Earl Anthony, the greatest bowler that ever lived). As one of users (either e-tank, mudpuppy, or Xmax) said, "I throw a 16lb because they don't make a 17lb." In a Bill Spigner article (http://www.billspigner.com/pdf/0485_Bill_BD.pdf) from April 1985 Bowling Digest, Bill mentioned that there were only a few pro bowlers using 15lb balls (Soutar, Hutchinson, Aulby) and only 1 that used a 14lb ball (Dave Davis). He accredited the move to heavier balls in part to the increase in ABC pin weight that occurred around that time.

However, it's been a trend for some time towards 15lb bowling balls, especially for the typical house bowler. I'd be willing to bet that the most popular weight being sold internationally right now...is 15lb and articles on bowlingball.com confirm this assumption. Most pro shop owners recommend 15lb.

And now, more recently, I've heard rumblings of a trend towards 14lb balls. It used to be that you wanted a 16lb ball for more pin carry and less deflection. Some are now saying that you might be better off having more deflection. Most discussion on this is just community banter, but there have been limited articles (http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip14.htm)on the trend toward 14lbs (or lighter). According to what I've read, bowling ball technology has mad it easier to carry more pins with a lower weight...and since many players are tending towards high rev/cranker styles...it may be harder to get those revs with heavier equipment. I don't know that the pros are throwing now, but I've heard many have moved to 15lb and even 14lb.

Now; me personally. I started out throwing a 14lb ball...and I actually noticed that it did deflect a little too much. HOWEVER...it's important to note it was a URETHANE ball. Would a reactive resin 14lb have carried more and deflected less?? Probably. I then went to a 15lb ball...and noticed significantly more carry although it was noticeably harder to control than the 14lber. Recently I've moved up to 16lbs and after one series, it seems like the lack of control moving from 15-16 is minimal...but the pin carry is improved. I got a couple strikes I had no business getting. But...the jury is still out as I get more experience with the 16lber.

Pin carry is a big part of my game. Most people that watch me bowl comment on how "when his ball hits the pins, they explode". Well, I'm throwing very hard/fast...a 15lb ball...thats what happens. Now with the move to 16lb...I may have to slow it down a little...not on purpose...but purely because I simply can't throw it as hard/fast at that increased weight. Just getting me to slow the ball down may actually help my scores.

For example, yesterday I was bowling very well with both the 15lb Frantic and the 16lb Rhythm...but with the Frantic I tended to leave (more than 3 times in a series) the 1-2-4-7-10. The ball would go too fast, too high...and just barrel through the middle of the right side. When I switched to the 16lb Rhythm...not only was the ball speed slower and the ball more able to hook (higher overall hooking ball) just due to it's own characteristics...but even when I hit high...more pins fell down. So I was left with less 1-2-4-7-10 (I think I had one) and more makeable spares like single 7-pin, single 10-pin, 6-10, 1-2-5.

[e-tank]

i dont really notice a difference. I have a 16lb older true urethane, modern resin, 15lb resins and urethane, as well as a 14lb og resin. If youre going by anecdotal evidence, youll find that people favor one over the other but as far as i know, there is no hard evidence that once is actually better than the other. Youll find many people have bowled 300's with all weights, its about fitting your game. If you think 16lb carrys better then go for it

[Stormed1]

As far as sales go 15# is #1, 14# is #2 and 16# is #3. It has gotten a lot harder to sell 16# equipment. As far as carry goes there is very little difference in the 3 weights. As for you Asian the reason the 16# seems to work better for you is being heavier you have a much more difficult time throwing the vall through the break point and therefore leaving the washout. You need to decide on what weight you are going to throw and stick with it. Changing back and forth will do nothing but screw you up. Years ago do to a wrist injury I had to drop down to 15# for 3 months. It took me a couple weeks to adjust my delivery so I didn't throw it through the breakpoint. Once I adjusted I averaged the same with 15 as I did with 16 (228 in 1990)

[Hampe]

I've noticed a huge increase in pin carry since switching from 14 to 15 lbs (my average is up 25-30 pins this season), BUT those balls are also drilled differently than my old equipment. They are drilled more for length/snap than my old equipment was. But I have been getting a lot more strikes this year on non-solid pocket hits than I used to.

When I play with my 14# equipment now it feels weird.....like the ball is made of styrofoam or something. I don't regret starting out with it though....it made it easier to get my form/technique down, and now I have no problems playing with 15# equipment.

[Aslan]

I don't know. After last night, my teammates feel that I was getting FAR more carry with my 15lb than my 16lb. They are drilled relatively the same and both symmetric cores, but the new 16lber has a higher hook rating/potential. But for some reason...throwing that 15lber sort of straight at the headpin...if I came close to that headpin...EXPLOSION!! Noticeable...by my teammates and opponents (ask Bunny, she's a teammate). But with the 16lber...slightly less speed...and just not getting that "explosion". Proabably 1mph slower in speed...

We'll see. I'm commited to using the new ball on the heavier oiled synthetic lanes. We only have 1-3 more weeks of that league anyways.

[Hammer]

From an article I read in Bowling This Month magazine you can get good carry with a 14#, 15# or 16# because of the cores that they put in balls these days. In the old days with the rubber balls and pancake weights in them the 16# was the better weight to use because the heavier weight gave better carry with the technique used then. I have a 14# Blue Hammer and a 15# Raw Hammer Anger ball and the Blue will hit just as hard as the 15# Anger ball. They both have 2000 Abralon surface but the Blue is urethane and the Anger is reactive resin. The Blue has the pin above my ring finger and the Anger has the pin below my ring finger. When the Anger gets to hard to adjust for pocket hits I use the Blue for both strike shots and spare shots. My thought is that I use the weight that I feel comfortable
with and that I have no trouble controlling.

[Aslan]

I'm starting to think I might be getting more carry out of my 15lber than my 16lber due to rotation/revolutions. Because the 15lber is lighter...I can get it spinning easier...put more revs on it...so even though it doesn't hook as much...it's hitting the pins with more energy. Where as the 16lber I wasn't reving as much...it started rolling out sooner. It's just a theory at this point...but I noticed when I started reving up the 16lber a bit more....it seemed to get more of an explosion.

[MICHAEL]

In my case,,, I have experimented with a 14lb freight train, a number of 15lb balls, and two 16lbers! Monday I pulled the beatdown 16lb off the shelf, and had a 668, even with a few bad mistakes on my part! It gave me many strikes, and carried real well except for maybe 4 times! That's the ball with the Tri Grip system! IT felt starnge at first, but now I like the grip very much, and I am thinking about getting some of my balls converted! Would cost about 50 bucks including the vise system! I almost think that all 3 of the weights mention can work GREAT! It doesn't seem to bother Me personally changing between them! I have had great games with all 3!

Maybe its my white natural hair color.... who knows, but my stylist!! Or does she/he?? Or do I even have a barber/stylist? Is it White, or maybe GRAY...... yes the whole subject is a GRAY area!! Not Black or White!!

[MICHAEL]

As far as sales go 15# is #1, 14# is #2 and 16# is #3. It has gotten a lot harder to sell 16# equipment. As far as carry goes there is very little difference in the 3 weights. As for you Asian the reason the 16# seems to work better for you is being heavier you have a much more difficult time throwing the vall through the break point and therefore leaving the washout. You need to decide on what weight you are going to throw and stick with it. Changing back and forth will do nothing but screw you up. Years ago do to a wrist injury I had to drop down to 15# for 3 months. It took me a couple weeks to adjust my delivery so I didn't throw it through the breakpoint. Once I adjusted I averaged the same with 15 as I did with 16 (228 in 1990)

I KNOW where your coming from, and I am sure most coach's would totally agree, but I disagree and for these reasons.

1. Just like how you drill your ball has a huge impact on the performance, so does the weight.

2. If you have the strength, and feel comfortable with a 16lb ball, it can be a great weapon, just like a 14, and 15lb ball.

If you drill lets say 3 balls, (say the IQ pearl), all the same way, only difference being weight, you will find that they all
all react differently! (NOW THIS IS WITH THE GIVEN THAT YOU CAN THROW THE 16 POUND BALL WITHOUT ANY PAIN
OR PROBLEMS)!

3. On a given oil pattern you can, it has been my observation see that, weight has a an impact on balls movement due
inertia! A ball fighting inertia while going down the lane is effected by weight, speed, and revolutions! I believe its '
break point is effected by weight among other things, (along with the things mentioned above)

conclusion: Could it be that a bowler might have an advantage having different weight balls, just like different levels of
performance! It doesn't seem to bother me at all going from one weight to another! Some times when is '
very dry that 14lber gets down the lane further before the break, is that because its lighter, and I throw it
harder, sure, but also because it has less weight pushing down on the lane, and thus maybe less friction
because friction is effected by weight. Like when you put sand in the back of your truck for traction! I
think bowling balls are effected the same. Hey I am not a spring chick, and my body adjusts easily between the different
weights, without destroying my rhythm,, or delivery.

I bring a combination of different weight balls to league with me, and I choose according what performance level, and in SOME CASES weight that works for THAT unique oil pattern that night/day! Weight can be an enemy, or your best friend, when it comes to bowling balls!

[CaptainXeroid]

I remember an ABC PBA telecast in which a certain pro whose name escapes me was using a 15lb ball while everyone else was using 16. After he left a few left side spares while his opponent carried a similar light hit, announcer Nelson Burton Jr 'chastised' him for "paying the penalty of not using a full weight ball." I understand and kinda' agreed with the point, but I had to roll my eyes at the way he overdramatized it...especially when later in the match that player tripped a 4 on a heavy pocket hit that the 'full weight' ball might not have.

Other things being equal, a heavier ball will impart more force to the pins than a lighter ball. Captain...I can't change the laws of physics! ;-) Whether that translates into increased pin fall isn't something that can always be measured.

Like surfaces, weight blocks, and ball speed, what's most important is that you find what works best for your style and lane conditions. Personally, I use 16lb because when I throw any lighter my back swing and ball speed get too high. When I miss the pocket, it doesn't matter a lot what kind of ball I threw.

IMHO...the move towards lighter balls has more to do with bowlers wanting to throw the ball harder with more revs. If that's your game and it works for you, go for it.

[Aslan]

IMHO...the move towards lighter balls has more to do with bowlers wanting to throw the ball harder with more revs.

Agreed. I find that with my 15lb ball I have to be more careful that I don't get my backswing too high and that I don't bring my hand over the top of it when I release it. With the 16lb ball it's a lot more controlled. But the downside is...it's harder for me to get revs so I have to let the ball do more of the work.

[zdawg]

Agreed. I find that with my 15lb ball I have to be more careful that I don't get my backswing too high and that I don't bring my hand over the top of it when I release it. With the 16lb ball it's a lot more controlled. But the downside is...it's harder for me to get revs so I have to let the ball do more of the work.

With my new ball I went with 15, and really the only reason why is because my original ball is 15 - and the reason that ball is 15 lbs because it was the best used ball the proshop had at the time.

I'm sure I can handle a 16 lb ball, I debated going with 16 for my new ball however I finally decided for now its best to stick with a weight I'm used to, and since I'll be using them interchangeably for a while I figured switching weights back and forth might add more complications as I'm still trying to perfect my release among other things.

[Perrin]

It's all about what works for you...

for some people 14 is better... easier on the arm a little more ball speed.

for some 15 is best the extra force from the additional mass without too much

Some people need to throw 16 so they don't muscle the ball or it reduces their speed enough to allow the revs they put on the ball to do some work before the ball gets through the pin-deck.

I switched from 16 to 15 due to my shoulder being tired after bowling 8 games in a row and it also gave me ~1mph of additional ball speed to help match up with the amount of revs I put on the ball.


I noticed after switching that I was getting more 'mixer' strikes. the 16lb ball was too much and I got better carry from 15

[MICHAEL]

I bowled a team of 5 yesterday that had a couple pretty good size guys, (One looked like a linebacker for the NFL)!
They both threw 14lb balls, and had incredible rev's, 220's averages!

I have come across several guys that COULD throw 16lbers, but choose to use 14's, and they make them look GREAT, and all of them have high averages! So,,, I can honestly say 14lbes don't seem to hurt in scores at all!!!

[tccstudent]

In the old days the extra hitting power from a 16 was more of a difference than the power of a 15
With the steroid induced equipment of today it is actually more important to have a high rev rate over a higher ball weight.
If you can throw a lighter ball with increased revs and still hit the pocket you are better off.
At least this is what has been explained to me buy one of the pro shops here in town.

[zdawg]

In the old days the extra hitting power from a 16 was more of a difference than the power of a 15
With the steroid induced equipment of today it is actually more important to have a high rev rate over a higher ball weight.
If you can throw a lighter ball with increased revs and still hit the pocket you are better off.
At least this is what has been explained to me buy one of the pro shops here in town.

Interesting, I wish there was a way to "test drive" both a 14 lb and a 16 lb ball for some games but I don't see how something like this would be possible without buying the ball and having it drilled to your hand - which becomes an expensive proposition especially if I don't know if I even want a ball at that weight.

Of course I've used all three weights back when I started and was using house balls, but of course without having a ball that fit my hand it was completely useless for comparison sake

[tccstudent]

talk to your pro shop about setting up a demo day this way you can try out different ball and different weights of the same ball

[zdawg]

talk to your pro shop about setting up a demo day this way you can try out different ball and different weights of the same ball

I'll ask them about that tomorrow and see what they say. Since I've never seen one of these, how do they work? Mainly how do they get the demo balls to fit your hand?

[tccstudent]

they have generic drilled balls with average spans and removeable thumbs in different sizes to accommodate most people
It wont fit as good as something drilled just for you but the will have it close enough that you can get a feel for the ball.

They generally have one or two around here a year. The last one was A Storm Demo Day.

[GoodGravy]

If you want the true technical answer for your initial question, pick up a Physics 101 text book. There is a significant difference all facets of kinetic energy when you change mass, not to mention the effects of friction on weighted spherical object, weight transfer, motion blah, blah, blah, blah....

Also, most people will, without even knowing it, change their physical approach due to the change in weight...even if it is small...again, pick up a Sports Kinesiology 101 text book...

Bottom line: Use what you are comfortable with and can develop your game around.....just my 2 cents :-)

[Aslan]

GGravy-

Thats sort of the point that was being made. Obviously you can get different advantages depending on what the weight is. Going from a 16lb to a 15lb may lose momentum and pin carry, but increase revolutions and deflection. Just as an example.

In the old days, they said to throw the heaviest bowl you could handle…most every pro threw a 16lb ball. But as the game became more hook and rev dominant..bowlers seem to have trended towards 15lbs…most likely because you can get more revs with it with only a minimal loss in momentum/pin carry. There may even be a pro using 14lb equipment. I bowled with a male bowler that used 14lb because he bowled thumbless and relied on a high amount of revolutions.

[RobLV1]

I can't think of one good reason to throw a 16 lb. modern bowling ball, but I can think of many reasons why you shouldn't. At the top of the list is the fact that proshops don't stock 16 lb. balls because noone uses them. Personally, when I decide to buy a new ball, I WANT IT NOW! If you don't mind waiting, and you choose to ignore the fact that a great, great majority of the world's top pros throw 15 lb. balls, then stick with 16. Whatever you decide, DON'T SWITCH BETWEEN WEIGHTS. This is probably the only thing that virtually every coach and ball driller agrees on.

[Aslan]

Well…ONE good thing about 16lb balls is you can usually get them at a discounted price since the 15lbers sell quickly and the 16lbers go on clearance.

And….because Earl Anthony told me too (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwfJ7sBf1Io)… :p

But you're right about switching weights. Muscle memory…timing…all negatively affected by switching weights. Fortunately for me;

1) I don't usually switch balls on league night. Playing on wood lanes almost exclusively right now and not using a "spare ball", I tend to just throw a 15lb ball for every shot.

Now…on synthetic lanes…if it's a rare time I find myself playing on synthetics…then my 15lb ball becomes my spare ball (I call it "back-up ball" because I only use it on a few spare leaves and for most splits) and I have to deal with those "issues".

2) The good news is…in 30-130 games I plan to retire the 15lb ball and will be throwing ONLY 16lb equipment for the foreseeable future.

I "personally" like throwing 16lb because it keeps me from "over-throwing" it…which has been a big problem for me early on. The heavier ball keeps my back swing lower and my release closer to the lane (less loft). But…thats just me. I'm also a lower rev (275-300rpm) player…most people are not. So I think, like the pro circuit generally throwing 15lb, most modern bowlers would prefer 13-15lb over 16lb.

And like I said, I totally agree that a bowler should only throw one weight. One pound doesn't seem like much…but it can really throw your timing off.

[YODA]

With today's balls with their cores and the many ways to drill them I think weight doesn't play nowhere near a factor as much as it possibly use to. I personally throw a 15 pound balls, I think I have one 16 pound ball but I rarely ever use it. Their are also factors that come into play with your throw, the balls arch, revs etc... Today advanced balls have made the impact of weight not to matter as much as technique which I think is a good thing :)

[Mudpuppy]

This toipc has bounced in and out of various threads so I thought I'd start a new one for discussion.

The old addage (if thats an actual word) was that you should throw the heaviest ball you can comfortably handle (per Earl Anthony, the greatest bowler that ever lived). As one of users (either e-tank, mudpuppy, or Xmax) said, "I throw a 16lb because they don't make a 17lb." In a Bill Spigner article (http://www.billspigner.com/pdf/0485_Bill_BD.pdf) from April 1985 Bowling Digest, Bill mentioned that there were only a few pro bowlers using 15lb balls (Soutar, Hutchinson, Aulby) and only 1 that used a 14lb ball (Dave Davis). He accredited the move to heavier balls in part to the increase in ABC pin weight that occurred around that time.

However, it's been a trend for some time towards 15lb bowling balls, especially for the typical house bowler. I'd be willing to bet that the most popular weight being sold internationally right now...is 15lb and articles on bowlingball.com confirm this assumption. Most pro shop owners recommend 15lb.

And now, more recently, I've heard rumblings of a trend towards 14lb balls. It used to be that you wanted a 16lb ball for more pin carry and less deflection. Some are now saying that you might be better off having more deflection. Most discussion on this is just community banter, but there have been limited articles (http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip14.htm)on the trend toward 14lbs (or lighter). According to what I've read, bowling ball technology has mad it easier to carry more pins with a lower weight...and since many players are tending towards high rev/cranker styles...it may be harder to get those revs with heavier equipment. I don't know that the pros are throwing now, but I've heard many have moved to 15lb and even 14lb.

Now; me personally. I started out throwing a 14lb ball...and I actually noticed that it did deflect a little too much. HOWEVER...it's important to note it was a URETHANE ball. Would a reactive resin 14lb have carried more and deflected less?? Probably. I then went to a 15lb ball...and noticed significantly more carry although it was noticeably harder to control than the 14lber. Recently I've moved up to 16lbs and after one series, it seems like the lack of control moving from 15-16 is minimal...but the pin carry is improved. I got a couple strikes I had no business getting. But...the jury is still out as I get more experience with the 16lber.

Pin carry is a big part of my game. Most people that watch me bowl comment on how "when his ball hits the pins, they explode". Well, I'm throwing very hard/fast...a 15lb ball...thats what happens. Now with the move to 16lb...I may have to slow it down a little...not on purpose...but purely because I simply can't throw it as hard/fast at that increased weight. Just getting me to slow the ball down may actually help my scores.

For example, yesterday I was bowling very well with both the 15lb Frantic and the 16lb Rhythm...but with the Frantic I tended to leave (more than 3 times in a series) the 1-2-4-7-10. The ball would go too fast, too high...and just barrel through the middle of the right side. When I switched to the 16lb Rhythm...not only was the ball speed slower and the ball more able to hook (higher overall hooking ball) just due to it's own characteristics...but even when I hit high...more pins fell down. So I was left with less 1-2-4-7-10 (I think I had one) and more makeable spares like single 7-pin, single 10-pin, 6-10, 1-2-5.

Yes it was me that said because they don't make a 17.

Speed kills Aslan - you should slow down a bit no matter what lb ball you throw. I know it makes you a chick magnet flexing your muscles throwing a 20mph ball but really no one is impressed. They just think you are compensating for something else and then confirm it when they see your 85 chevy truck on 40" tires in the parking lot.

[Aslan]

Today advanced balls have made the impact of weight not to matter as much as technique which I think is a good thing :)

I'd argue today's balls have emphasized one technique (cranking) over another technique (accuracy). 16lb used to be more desired because you had a slim margin for error when entering the pocket. Now balls are revving so fast that they carry alot of energy with them down the lane and come in more of a side angle than in the past.

I'd say the old way emphasized technique and accuracy...because the balls were relatively the same. Nowadays the ball is doing a lot more of the work and it's surface and core are determining much more than what balls used to determine.

So....I think for tradtional/stroker style bowlers...the old addage holds true...that you throw the heaviest ball you can control. But for modern/cranker bowlers...I think you go with a 13-15lb ball that you can impart a great deal of revolutions on. I think weight used to be more of a factor in the momentum and eventual force and pin carry than it is now. Now (modern bowling) it's the energy from the revs that is a great contributor to eventual speed/momentum/force and eventual pin carry.

Like the older lady in my friday league. She throws a really light ball...traditional bowling style...HORRIBLE pin carry. She doesn't have the physical ability to impart more revs on the ball...and her ball is too light to help with pin carry. Because of her advanced age (about 70), she's kinda stuck because she can't "rev it up" but also can't throw a heavier ball. She has to be VERY precise when she hits the pocket....because she's getting NO help.

I used to throw a 14lb ball for the longest time. And WOW did I notice a difference going up 1lb. I mean, what used to cause my ball to sort of deflect to the side...suddenly those pins were getting mowed down and a LOT more pin action. I haven't noticed an increase as much going from 15lb to 16lb. BUT...if I was a high rev player (rev dominant)...I'd NEVER want to throw a 16lb ball. Too much effort to rev it up...and it's going to have extra momentum into the break point due to it's weight...so it won't make the turn I want it to...partially because of it's weight..partially because of aforementioned rev issue.

So...cliff notes version: I think 16lb sales are down because there are more rev dominant players than there used to be. I think the "modern" approach fits a 14lb ball more than a 16lb ball.

[Aslan]

Yes it was me that said because they don't make a 17.

Speed kills Aslan - you should slow down a bit no matter what lb ball you throw. I know it makes you a chick magnet flexing your muscles throwing a 20mph ball but really no one is impressed. They just think you are compensating for something else and then confirm it when they see your 85 chevy truck on 40" tires in the parking lot.

I've slowed down a LOT.

Of matter of fact....theres a new bowler in my league...and this guy could be the poster child for "speed dominant". But he's a HORRIBLE bowler. He fires that think like he's trying to set a land speed record....and usually misses signifcantly. Sometimes he'll catch the headpin and the pin action will get him a strike...but I have to admit I've been SO tempted to take him aside and say, "Okay...seriously...you need to stop doing that." I mean, this kid is going to need should surgery by the end of next season. And he "thinks" he looks cool...you can tell after he throws...he "thinks" everyone is watching and thinking "wow! He can throw so hard!" But they're not. The experienced bowlers aren't thinking ANYTHING about it because he's such a minor, minor threat to score more than 130...that nobody cares.

Never owned a Chevy. The only GM IO ever owned was a 1987 Fiero GT. Owned a Volkswagon. Drove a Geo for awhile (which i guess was also GM). Then I owned a couple Fords. Now a Chrysler. So...no Chevys. Sorry.

[Mudpuppy]

I've slowed down a LOT.

Of matter of fact....theres a new bowler in my league...and this guy could be the poster child for "speed dominant". But he's a HORRIBLE bowler. He fires that think like he's trying to set a land speed record....and usually misses signifcantly. Sometimes he'll catch the headpin and the pin action will get him a strike...but I have to admit I've been SO tempted to take him aside and say, "Okay...seriously...you need to stop doing that." I mean, this kid is going to need should surgery by the end of next season. And he "thinks" he looks cool...you can tell after he throws...he "thinks" everyone is watching and thinking "wow! He can throw so hard!" But they're not. The experienced bowlers aren't thinking ANYTHING about it because he's such a minor, minor threat to score more than 130...that nobody cares.

Never owned a Chevy. The only GM IO ever owned was a 1987 Fiero GT. Owned a Volkswagon. Drove a Geo for awhile (which i guess was also GM). Then I owned a couple Fords. Now a Chrysler. So...no Chevys. Sorry.

I saw your recent scores. Definitely shows you have slowed down. You have to go slow to go fast. No one really cares who can throw the ball the fastest - at least no one relevant. And it's not a fireworks show - it's bowling. The score speaks higher than 1 or 2 fantastic strikes where the pins blow up.

And it's ok we won't tell anyone about your jacked up pickup truck. Although would be a big selling point with some of the women Iceman has been finding for you.

[Aslan]

And it's ok we won't tell anyone about your jacked up pickup truck. Although would be a big selling point with some of the women Iceman has been finding for you.

You have to remember, he's from Missouri...so unless I have a meth lab, a trailer, or an RV...I'm really not gonna have much luck. Girls there don't tend to fall for the "intelectual types"

or as they refer to them, "Ooooo...a guy that can read! Ain't you fancy!"

[MICHAEL]

You have to remember, he's from Missouri...so unless I have a meth lab, a trailer, or an RV...I'm really not gonna have much luck. Girls there don't tend to fall for the "intelectual types"

or as they refer to them, "Ooooo...a guy that can read! Ain't you fancy!"

hummm I have lived in both places for a number of years, and believe me Aslan MODESTO CA, was ranked number ONE for mobile meth labs and meth in general! The valley girls in CA,,, all talk like they are on Meth!

Don't you PICK on Farm breed, whole, wholesome Missouri Women! I doubt you have even ever meth one!! LOL

Yeeeeeeee, Haaaaaaa!!!