Pin "explosion" as it relates to Physics

[Aslan]

So I recently switched weights from 15lb to 16lb and my teammates noticed the pins weren't "exploding" anymore when I hit them. :confused: Well, thats odd. They asked, "did you switch to a lighter ball?"

Now, that logically would make sense...but I didn't, I switched to a heavier ball. "Heavier!?? Really?? Wow." Because one would think the heavier the ball, the more pin action (explosion) right?

Well, thats only < 50% true. Because of Physics. Mass/weight is an important part of the equation...but not the whole story.

Now, if you want more physics than anyone could ever handle...check this out (http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-bowling.html)...but we're going to simplify it a bit:

Pin explosion is essentially due to the "Force" of a heavier ball striking a less heavy pin(s). So what is "Force"?

"Force" in this example is mass x acceleration and is expressed in the terms "Newtons". A Newton (1N) is roughly the force of an apple falling off a tree and hitting you atop the head. Force (F) = m (kg) x acceleration (m/s) We will negate the opposite force related to friction (which keeps the ball from rolling forever and ever if it doesn't hit anything) because if you're comparing 2 balls on the same lane...the friction difference would be negligible and really only due to the varying surfaces of the ball.

So...why did my 15lb Frantic seem to cause the pins to explode while the 16lb Rhythm did not?

The Frantic is 15lbs (6.80387kg) and was thrown at a speed of roughly 19.7mph (8.806688m/s) or greater. That results in a "Force" of 59.92 newtons (N).
The Rhythm is 16lbs (7.25748kg) and was thrown at a speed of roughly 17.6mph (7.867904m/s). That results in a "Force" of 57.1 newtons (N).

And the number (Force) for the Rhythm is actually going to be slitghtly less than 57.1 because the more a ball hooks...the more it takes away from the momentum (which is calculated as a "straight line momentum"). So, using algebra, to ge the same pin action with the new 16lb ball...I would need to throw it at a speed of > 8.25631 m/s or > 18.47mph.

You could even use Physics to answer the question further in terms of how much of an increased back swing and/or how much of an increase in approach speed will be necessary to acheive that additional 0.87mph...but thats more physics than my alcohol damaged brain can tolerate on a Friday.

[e-tank]

so if one were to get a 16lb ball and throw it 20mph, youd in theory get the best carry?

[Aslan]

so if one were to get a 16lb ball and throw it 20mph, youd in theory get the best carry?

Yes and No. In theory, a projectile fired hard enough at the pins will knock them all over. Like how a cannon ball wouldn't need to necessarily hit a person directly to kill them...it could land near them. But since we're talking 12-25mph....a heavier ball at a higher speed will result in the greatest Force.

However....10-pin bowling is designed so that the pins knock each other over if the headpin is hit in a certain spot. So missing that spot...even with a greater Force...may result in more pin action and more pins falling...but it won't result in a "strike". In other words, you still have to hit the headpin....to the left of it or the right of it for that increased pin action to be of any use to you and your score.

AND...greater Force/momentum/etc... means the bowling ball will suffer less deflection (force of pins acting on the ball) so you'll rely MORE on pin carry because the ball isn't going to hit anything that isn't directly in front of it.

So we can't use the "Force/Explosion" arguement to say 16lb is better than 14lb. However, we can use it to show why pins tend to "explode" or "not explode". Do pins need to "explode" to bowl well?? No. Old timer scratch guys can out bowl most of us...and they throw (in general) 14lb equipment at < 17mph. No explosion...but very good results/scores.

[e-tank]

Yes and No. In theory, a projectile fired hard enough at the pins will knock them all over. Like how a cannon ball wouldn't need to necessarily hit a person directly to kill them...it could land near them. But since we're talking 12-25mph....a heavier ball at a higher speed will result in the greatest Force.

However....10-pin bowling is designed so that the pins knock each other over if the headpin is hit in a certain spot. So missing that spot...even with a greater Force...may result in more pin action and more pins falling...but it won't result in a "strike". In other words, you still have to hit the headpin....to the left of it or the right of it for that increased pin action to be of any use to you and your score.

AND...greater Force/momentum/etc... means the bowling ball will suffer less deflection (force of pins acting on the ball) so you'll rely MORE on pin carry because the ball isn't going to hit anything that isn't directly in front of it.

So we can't use the "Force/Explosion" arguement to say 16lb is better than 14lb. However, we can use it to show why pins tend to "explode" or "not explode". Do pins need to "explode" to bowl well?? No. Old timer scratch guys can out bowl most of us...and they throw (in general) 14lb equipment at < 17mph. No explosion...but very good results/scores.

Ah i see.

if the pros are any indicator, it would seem like a 15lb ball @ 18-20mph with ~400-450 revs is ideal

[Aslan]

Ah i see.

if the pros are any indicator, it would seem like a 15lb ball @ 18-20mph with ~400-450 revs is ideal

Thats the main reason you can't use Force as the only factor. You mention "revs". The revs cause the ball to deviate from a straight line trajectory, and thus slightly decrease the force. So the more revs, the more of a turn/reaction, the less the force. But...the more ideal the angle to the pocket. The modern pro/cranker trades a bit of Force for an enhanced trajectory. The problem is, if you miss the headpin (which pros rarely ever do)...you will carry less pins with the lesser Force.

I unfortunately don't have the revs...thus I have to rely on the Force.

And by "Force"...I don't mean in the Star Wars sense.

[e-tank]

Thats the main reason you can't use Force as the only factor. You mention "revs". The revs cause the ball to deviate from a straight line trajectory, and thus slightly decrease the force. So the more revs, the more of a turn/reaction, the less the force. But...the more ideal the angle to the pocket. The modern pro/cranker trades a bit of Force for an enhanced trajectory. The problem is, if you miss the headpin (which pros rarely ever do)...you will carry less pins with the lesser Force.

I unfortunately don't have the revs...thus I have to rely on the Force.

And by "Force"...I don't mean in the Star Wars sense.

if you had the force your avg would be around 300 if you were slick

[Aslan]

if you had the force your avg would be around 300 if you were slick

I'll have to try that at leagues tonight...use the Force...no more, "I'm gonna try to shoot a clean game"...do...or do not...there is no try.

[Terrier]

"Force" in this example is mass x acceleration and is expressed in the terms "Newtons". A Newton (1N) is roughly the force of an apple falling off a tree and hitting you atop the head. Force (F) = m (kg) x acceleration (m/s)Actually, these units are wrong. Acceleration is given in m/s^2 and is the differential of velocity (meters/second).

The Frantic is 15lbs (6.80387kg) and was thrown at a speed of roughly 19.7mph (8.806688m/s) or greater. That results in a "Force" of 59.92 newtons (N).
The Rhythm is 16lbs (7.25748kg) and was thrown at a speed of roughly 17.6mph (7.867904m/s). That results in a "Force" of 57.1 newtons (N).
A Newton has units of kg*m/s^2.

What you're quoting as force is actually momentum (kg*m/s). Momentum is the product of mass and velocity (p=m*v). Right concept, but you called it by the wrong name.

[dnhoffman]

Actually, these units are wrong. Acceleration is given in m/s^2 and is the differential of velocity (meters/second).
A Newton has units of kg*m/s^2.

What you're quoting as force is actually momentum (kg*m/s). Momentum is the product of mass and velocity (p=m*v). Right concept, but you called it by the wrong name.


http://youtu.be/gZEdDMQZaCU

[Aslan]

What you're quoting as force is actually momentum (kg*m/s). Momentum is the product of mass and velocity (p=m*v). Right concept, but you called it by the wrong name.

Well done Terrier!! Once again proving that not everyone from Texas is an ignorant bumpkin!

"Look darlin…it appears Terrier is an educated man….now I know I hate him."

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3817320/doc-holliday-wink-o.gif (http://gifsoup.com/view/3817320/doc-holliday-wink.html)

Terrier is correct…while it really doesn't matter for this example…Force is "technically a measure of the changes in acceleration of a given mass" while momentum is the simple measure of mass times velocity.